Frequent and Unpleasant Thoughts

[JudyK]

Sealnyx,
   Yes,  in my house, growing up, we were never allowed to show anger. We would be sent to our room. If we cried,, we were ridiculed, and usually sent to our room. We were taught to simulate a sort of "Stepford Wife" existance. But ONE person in my family was allowed to display any emotion, at any time, spotaneously........you guessed it, dear NM.

[Logy]

My scenarios often involve me saving the day in some way (getting us out of the fire, for example) and me being the centre of attention (my son's been kidnapped so everyone is running around me trying to find him)  I'm not saying it's the same with everyone but with me I think it's

2  Having a general fear of not deserving or having a right to have a child, a job, a home, or even just an easy, uneventful life.

3  I think working through scenarios in my head (how we get out of the fire, escaping the car as it heads toward the lake, pulling my son out of the wreckage just before it blows up etc) is how I cover all the bases, which I always had to do all my life.  If anything went wrong it was my fault and I should have foreseen what was coming and done something to avoid it.

4  Being the centre of attention I think is fairly obvious with me because I never was!  So having all eyes on me gives me that focus that I never had and craved so much

5  Being in situations where I rescue my son or just generally cope with the disaster that's unfolding is, I think, my thing about having to be almost superhuman to get any kind of recognition or praise (ie if I got my son out of the fire my mum might finally have something good to say about me).

Twoapenny,

A CONSTANT recurring dream in my life is saving everyone.  Helping a group of children out of a dangerous situation is the most common. 

I also believed that I never deserved anything good.  If I did something for myself I was criticized.  If someone else did something for me, I was told I needed to do something in return, irregardless of what I had done for that person in the past.  So I learned that kindness from others.  I had to earn it.

I could comment on every single thing that everyone has written on this post.  All of them really hit home.

Logy

[bearwithme]

Bear, I can't help but wonder if it is significant that this has gotten so much worse since the birth of your 2 yr old daughter. I think of this because the only time I have experienced uncontrollable scenarios of doom like you describe, is right after my last child who is now 12 was born. I was depressed already, then he was born early and I was afraid to let him cry at all ... my husband disagreed with me, thought I should allow him to cry a little before responding ... but I was a basketcase and could not bear him crying at all ... so I got no sleep for about 4 days after bringing him home and just about had a psychotic break. I was having doomsday scenarios flash through my mind and I had no resources to shut them out.

I think it is significant as well.  When my daughter was born, I had an epiphany of sorts, it was instantaneous really.  I realized and understood that life is so fragile and unpredictable yet I have just received the most glorious gift of my life and I feared God would take it back because I really didn't deserve such a beautiful baby in the first place.  I truly thought, "Something this beautiful could NOT possibly me mine!!!!???
I realize my thoughts are geared toward losing her and fearing her death is because I made mistake or wasn't paying attention at that moment.  Before she was born, I feared losing my husband in some awful accident, etc.

Twoapenny wrote:

This has made me think soooo much!  It's been really good for me, so thank you 

My scenarios often involve me saving the day in some way (getting us out of the fire, for example) and me being the centre of attention (my son's been kidnapped so everyone is running around me trying to find him)  I'm not saying it's the same with everyone but with me I think it's

1 having a general level of anxiety that's been built into me by my mum and her husband criticising everything I do (ie nothing's ever good enough and so I've always had an anxiety of what's going to be wrong with what I did, and I think that is just there all the time below everything I do and everything I have in my life).

2  Having a general fear of not deserving or having a right to have a child, a job, a home, or even just an easy, uneventful life.

3  I think working through scenarios in my head (how we get out of the fire, escaping the car as it heads toward the lake, pulling my son out of the wreckage just before it blows up etc) is how I cover all the bases, which I always had to do all my life.  If anything went wrong it was my fault and I should have foreseen what was coming and done something to avoid it.

4  Being the centre of attention I think is fairly obvious with me because I never was!  So having all eyes on me gives me that focus that I never had and craved so much

5  Being in situations where I rescue my son or just generally cope with the disaster that's unfolding is, I think, my thing about having to be almost superhuman to get any kind of recognition or praise (ie if I got my son out of the fire my mum might finally have something good to say about me).

I think that's my combination of stuff that goes on at a sort of subconscious level and has these bizarre fantasies going through my head to kind of play that out.  I worry more about there being fault with how I handle the situation rather than the situation itself, if that makes sense?

My goodness this make so much sense!!  You have itemized it to the core and explain almost to a T as I imagine things.  I often think of how I would pull my family to safety from the car going in the lake.  The superhuman thing you mention made me think even more about this issue and why we are all plagued by these thoughts.  Our common denominator is that we were raised by N's.  I wonder if the rest were raised by NM in particular as opposed to a Nfather.  I curious as to the correlation between the NM and the child because children think their mother's are gods and can do no wrong.

You also said "I worry more about there being fault with how I handle the situation rather than the situation itself."   This made me think that maybe we had to be perfect in ALL that we did or else we would be called (in my case) stupid, dumb or slow.  We were in fact expected to act like superhumans in order to balance NM's emotions and everything else she put upon us.  We not only had to act like the adult but had to carry the N's emotional baggage with us everywhere we went.  Children are not capable of this immense job so perhaps we envision us as stronger and capable of saving everyone from the wreckage...and now the wreckage of our own past. 

Like Logy, I have similar thoughts of saving children.  Isn't it strange that we share such similar thoughts?  This has got to be a symptom of something or result of specific abuse, I just wished I knew exactly where it comes from and I could take a pill to let them all go.

So, so, so interesting.

Bear.

[bearwithme]

Bear,
  You wrote, "I wonder if the N parent can manage to destroy our sense of "saftey"....... My T says one should be able to go home and feel protected there, by family, etc.  He says I never received that. As young as about 3 years, my mother turned me out, into the night, becasue I apparantly told her I wanted to run away. She thought "helping" me leave would make me see the light. I pounded and pounded on the front door, crying and begging to be let in. Years later, as NM gleefully retold the story, she was standing on the otherside of the door, listening to the frightened cries of her daughter, and let it continue. it was an act of punishment, and in her eyes, her 3year old child deserved it. This happened over 5 decades ago, and I still remember the terror I felt.
   That was just the beginning. Thru the years, whether it was being ridiculed at school by kids and one particular teacher, or for ANY reason I needed a kind word, a loving touch, adult arms around me, it never happened. So, for me, there was no sense of saftey to destroy. 

JudyK: my gosh, my NM did this EXACT same thing to my brother and he tells the story to this day and he's now 47.  He just wanted to spend the night at my aunt's house (NM's own sister) so he could play with his cousin that was his age at the time, 4 years old.  She pushed him out of our house in the cold rain and yelled at him that, "You love auntie more than me and you always want to go to HER HOUSE because you don't love your own mother; then go, go to auntie and live there forever!!"  She pushed him out and locked the door.  My brother stood on the porch crying and banging on the door.  He was out there so long a neighbor heard him and came over.  When my NM opened the door to see her faced, she laughed hysterically and said he needed to be punished for threatening to run away.

That neighbor hated my NM after that.  (her kids told me so).

If only we had been loved just a tad more, I wonder if I'd be more happy with myself?

I love your stories.

Bear

[BonesMS]

The more I read about what these NWomb-Donors have done, the more I HATE these NWomb-Donors!!!!   

Bones

[JudyK]

Dear Bear,
  Thank you so muc! And I love how you are so kind and thoughtful to answer everyone who responds to your posts!!!

[JudyK]

 Bones,
    Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Logy]

JudyK,

You mentioned the Stepford Wifes in one of your posts.  That movie really had an impact on me.  I have made comments about it to others - no one remembers it.  But it really made an impact on me.  One woman fighting against the lies, the manipulation, the false image.  Made to feel crazy, irrational.  It just felt very familiar.

So, I just want to thank you, Bear, for starting this post.  It opened a sensitive spot for me. 

HeartofPilgrimage, your comment about the birth of your child was amazing.  It helped me understand a watershed moment for me.  Giving birth and seeing that new life in front of you - it was a turning point in my life as well.   If I was given this remarkable creature, maybe I was worthy after all.  Maybe God had faith in my ability to mother this little human.  AND, how could anyone put themselves above this baby whose very life is dependent on them?

[HeartofPilgrimage]

I'm reading a really really good book called "Understanding the Borderline Mother" --- I was shocked to realize that, although I have said a lot of times on this board that my mother probably isn't diagnosable as a narcissist per se, that she fits the "hermit" borderline persona to a T. The book talks about how the children of the "hermit" borderline mother are taught that life is OVERWHELMING DANGEROUS. She spends her life training them to be as anxious, suspicious, and withdrawn as she is. She is the only "type" of borderline (at least, the way this book divvies them up) to be an introvert, and to be able to tolerate being alone.

Anyway, this thread made me think that if you struggle with constant doomsday scenarios, maybe your mom had a streak of the hermit too. Maybe you were carefully trained to spent a huge chunk of your mental energy planning out what you would do in case of emergency ... so that you feel "obligated" to think of every possible emergency you can possibly imagine so that you will be "prepared".

[bearwithme]

Heart:  That is really fascinating.  I wonder what denotes being a "hermit."  My definition may be different than what the experts in your book say.  Is a "hermit" just that, a recluse? 

My NM was not either.  She was loud, boisterous and obnoxious.  She had to be the center of attention everywhere and I am the complete opposite, to a degree, as I am not really a "hermit" per se.

But now that you mention it, I am the one that feels "anxious, suspicious, and [somewhat] withdrawn," because of these thoughts.  Hmmm. I do not want this to transpire into teaching my daughter these ways.  My goodness, I have to be aware and careful of this.  Thank you for bringing this up!!!!

Bear.

[HeartofPilgrimage]

In this book (which talks about moms who have borderline personality disorder, not ALL personality types) ... a hermit is the BPD mom who withdraws into a shell and into paranoia to deal with her out of control emotions. My own mom would not strike you as a recluse --- she likes to talk and is usualy friendly to others, and as I said, as long as my dad was alive she socialized through him. But her life has been one long prediction of the worse case scenario. So she trained me to be constantly vigilant ... the foxhole mentality. As a result, between the two of us we have had just about every anxiety disorder in the DSM-IV-TR.

Also, one of the things that the author points out is that a "persona" is not exclusive. Since everybody really is unique, you can't boil a whole bunch of personalities down to one "type" each. So someone that has "hermit" characteristics may also have other personas too ... the waif (life is overwhelming ... period), the queen (life is all about me), and the witch (life is war). Few mothers are always the witch, the rarest "type", but almost all of them turn into the witch at times when under a lot of stress.