Sick and cruel- NM

[swimmer]

I pretended this sitation didn't happen to me for a long time.... When I was in college I had a strange nightmare there was a piece of plywood on top of me.  In reality, I was sleeping in a loft for the first time after summer break (the ceiling was right there about 2 feet from my face).  College living:).... Anyways, I told my NM about this dream and she said this is because I might have been sexually abused as a child.  I just never believed this.... I shared this with a shrink (good one) years ago and I still had the question lurking in my head!!  If she thought this was true, why didn't she have me evaluated?  I just know I was not sexually violated by anyone. 

My NM also said she thought people with schizophrenia had this dream, she heard this from an "expert" on a talk show.  I feel like I'm making this up, first of all who would dream of saying this? And to your daughter?  I feel like if I don't face some of these memories, I will never feel that I'm not the crazy one.  If any of my relatives asks me why I'm nc, I want to just tell them this one scenario so they will back off forever about how I should call her.  I know I didn't make this up.  But for some reason it doesn't feel real that she said this.  I think I tried to block it out.... Cause I was there and I heard her say these things!

Swimmer 

[Hopalong]

What an empathy deficit she had, Swimmer.

My D is educating me (daily, at age 29) about how clueless things I say can trigger a WHOLE LOT of emotion in her.

I think that's true for all parents to a degree. I'm sure it's really really not helpful to imply that you wonder if your child has a schizophrenic disorder, though...

That would have scared me to death.

I think your NC with her is a very sensible idea. She sounds like a bulldozer driving around your brain and big 6-foot-thick concrete boundary walls are the only way to keep dozers out.

hugs
Hops

[Logy]

Wow, Swimmer!  Those are odd comments, especially coming from your own mother!
Doubting your memory?  I seriously doubt that.  When someone says something so shocking and out of the blue, those things are burned into your memory.  Could it be that someone (NM?) has invalidated your memory all your life that you doubt your own experiences?  I can't count the times I have told my NM something she said to me or to someone else and she denies, denies, denies.  So I began to doubt my own experiences as well.

Are these issues that she has - fears of schizophrenia, sexual abuse?  Maybe that's why she brought them up.  As a mother I can't imagine making the sexual abuse comment and then not following up - asking questions, getting help for my child.  So it may have more to do with her issues.
 
My advice is to not doubt yourself.  N's are really good at making us question ourselves, our experiences, our conversations, our very being.  Until I learned about narcissism, I thought I was the oddball in the family.  Then I found out about this, learned more about how to handle it, learned more about myself.  I still struggle with painful memories, the envy of others who had parents who knew and acknowledged them.  But now I know that my memories are valid and I am not the crazy person I believed myself to be.

Logy

[Ami]

(((Swimmer)))) Sending warm comfort your way !  x o x o  Ami

[river]

I find it incredible every time, the similariities.  My NM sublty set people up for abuse.  There is the 'normal' self presentation, thats ~ well yeah, all this is true that in some ways my f.of.o wasnt so bad, but then theres this hidden unconscious undercurrent, that is felt but not named.  Ns, it seem one way or another trade abuse, wether its direct, or by implication.  It seems the unconsious agenda here is saying ''you're ill'... in fact its her thats ill. 
Its hard to believe this dark hidden stuff went on because its sort of subliminal and unconscious.  In a wierd way it seems both blatent and denied.

My NM who professed to love my son, who had asthma, she sent him articles about asthma all the time, including one about how many people died of it.  Like you, as I wrote that, I felt disbelief, that I'm making someting out of nothing, next minute, its chilling beyond words.
logy said: 

  Then I found out about this, learned more about how to handle it,   

...........how? 

[Ami]

I find it incredible every time, the similariities.  My NM sublty set people up for abuse.  There is the 'normal' self presentation, thats ~ well yeah, all this is true that in some ways my f.of.o wasnt so bad, but then theres this hidden unconscious undercurrent, that is felt but not named.  Ns, it seem one way or another trade abuse, wether its direct, or by implication.  It seems the unconsious agenda here is saying ''you're ill'... in fact its her thats ill. 
Its hard to believe this dark hidden stuff went on because its sort of subliminal and unconscious.  In a wierd way it seems both blatent and denied.

My NM who professed to love my son, who had asthma, she sent him articles about asthma all the time, including one about how many people died of it.  Like you, as I wrote that, I felt disbelief, that I'm making someting out of nothing, next minute, its chilling beyond words.
logy said: 

  Then I found out about this, learned more about how to handle it,   

...........how? 

YES, YES, YES!  This is the kind of thing I have been seeing ,River.
I see the patterns and they are BEYOND belief!          Ami

[swimmer]

It's startling to me to read these posts.  I experience a double take for a split second... Did I write this reply?  These N's are all the same!!!  Yes, doubting my memory has been one of my big problems around certain situations.  It's funny, none of my friends ever elicit this response of doubt in me.  This is one of my safety valves, I think....would one of my friends drill and try to distort my memory?  I the way N parents create a web of doubt is one of the brainwashing techniques they use.... then it makes whatever they do okay.

I remember thinking to myself at the time, I know I don't have scizophrenia and nobody has sexually violated my space..... and thought, my mother is really screwed up!!  This locked me in deeper though.  I guess I wasn't ready emotionally to face the fact my mother was a fake.  As the years passed, I've learned through my career how serious and violating sexual abuse is.  It's sick she would pick the ultimate in violating personal boundaries, sexual abuse, to lie about.  It's like brainwashing by proxy.  People who have schizophrenia are often fearful of speaking up.  Loss of power in sexual abuse, and the voicelessness of scizophrenia.... it's like she had a plan of trying to take these things away from me.... Sick!!!!!!!!!

Thx for cyberhugs:))) I often respond from my PDA and can't see all the replies while I write a reply.  Make sense?  I like hearing from all of you guys:). It's very hard for me to articulate myself when it comes to N's, so I hope I make sense.

Swimmer

[river]

YES, YES, YES!  This is the kind of thing I have been seeing ,River.
I see the patterns and they are BEYOND belief!          Ami
[/quote]
thanks for this ami.  Its this human validation that is so important, and one can only get from one who knows the experience, ~ the wounded healer.   

[Gabben]

I pretended this situation didn't happen to me for a long time.... When I was in college I had a strange nightmare there was a piece of plywood on top of me.  In reality, I was sleeping in a loft for the first time after summer break (the ceiling was right there about 2 feet from my face).  College living:).... Anyways, I told my NM about this dream and she said this is because I might have been sexually abused as a child.  I just never believed this.... I shared this with a shrink (good one) years ago and I still had the question lurking in my head!!  If she thought this was true, why didn't she have me evaluated?  I just know I was not sexually violated by anyone. 

My NM also said she thought people with schizophrenia had this dream, she heard this from an "expert" on a talk show.  I feel like I'm making this up, first of all who would dream of saying this? And to your daughter?  I feel like if I don't face some of these memories, I will never feel that I'm not the crazy one.  If any of my relatives asks me why I'm nc, I want to just tell them this one scenario so they will back off forever about how I should call her.  I know I didn't make this up.  But for some reason it doesn't feel real that she said this.  I think I tried to block it out.... Cause I was there and I heard her say these things!

Swimmer 

Swimmer,

My mother has said and done this very type of gaslighting and drama stirring behavior to me and my family, many times. Once, she was sure that my nephew had autism and or that there was something very wrong with him. He turned out to be a very normal healthy kid.  Over the years she has told my sister and I to watch out for we may suffer from mental illness as well as small children, she will go on and on about what seems "something really wrong with them," even as babies. It seems that she has a worst case scenario type thinking, almost a love for drama and stirring confusion. I am not too sure what this is about other than a form of projection and gaslighting.

[Logy]

River,
You asked "how" I learned to handle it.  Good question!

After all the initial realization, the research and reading about narcissism, the blessed validation from my sister that she experiences the same, and the counseling by a great therapist, the thing that helps me through rough periods and provides validation when I feel bad about it, are sites like this.  Reading everyone's posts, knowing I am not alone. 

I handle it by re-reading information I have already read, connecting with others who understand.  It has been that repeated validation that keeps me on track.  Learning that I DO have the right to my beliefs and my memories.  My life IS valid. 

Recently, during a bad time with my NM, when we were having issues anyway so I felt I had nothing to lose by bringing something else up.  I asked her if she remembered me being depressed when I was 12 (not just depressed, I tried to commit suicide).  She raved about how happy I was, there were no problems, I was just a normal kid with lots of friends.  Being 12 was one of those moments of life burned into my memory - 40 years later I still cry when I think about it.  I still have moments when I wonder about my memory of that time but I shut them out now.  I KNOW my experience was real because of reading about narcissism and because of all of the wonderful people on sites like this who share their life.
Thanks, everyone.  I appreciate you.

[swimmer]

Yep.... I just get overwhelmed.  It's like I used up my lifetime energy supply on N's.  It's just so hard to articulate what happened, yet I live with the effects everyday.  I really admire peoples ability to get things out on the table to process.  Maybe I need a break from processing what has happened.  

Thx for your posts, simply reading people's posts confirms I'm not being too sensitive (which I was always accused of).  Classic emotional abuse red flag.

Swimmer

[swimmer]

Logy-  definitely!!!  Yes, I have to literally say, yes xyz... happened, I was there.  That's so cruel your NM pretended to not remember that difficult time in your life.  It must have been so sad, especially at that age, to be ignored emotionally by someone who should be able to pick up on subtle cues from you things were 'not right' for you.  Or at least recognize your cry for help.  I can so relate to the ignoring of reality and changing stories to suit the N.  What is real just doesn't occur to a N.  N's believe they can create reality, what psychobabble calls delusions of grandeur.  Thanks for sharing:)

Swimmer

[seasons]

Reading this gives me the chills. I can so relate and believe!

Knowing your not alone helps, I think and hope.  ox seasons