Reactions to relatives when NC

[swimmer]

The trouble comes when people think, I can handle this person.... Why can't she?

I like your answer about the issue being personal. Here is another I've used.

"My mother has a habit of involving people in situations that have a history and importance that they can't possibly understand. I care about you and prefer that you don't get involved in our relationship."

Change the subject...

I like the way you put this Sealnyx.  I'm writing what I can say on an index card to keep handy so I can say these things confidently.  I took a deep breathe when I spoke to my step brother, and it helped the conversation, but it went on  went on a little too long.  If I can't change the subject in 2minutes, I'll hang up ( within social reason, as long as I'm not traumatized)

I love your ideas guys, I'm open ears if you have anymore:)

Swimmer

[HeartofPilgrimage]

This reminds me of an article I read on another forum called the "victim triangle". There are three "starting gate" positions on the victim triangle --- victim, persecutor, and rescuer. However, no matter what your starting gate position, once you get onto the triangle, you cycle through all of the positions. (I think the "victim triangle" was originally called the "drama triangle" which seems to me also appropriate). The persecutor sees themselves as "victim" --- that's why they feel justified in acting in a persecutory manner. In this situation, your NM was seeing herself as victim (although continuing to act as a persecutor), your stepbrother was acting like rescuer, and both were forcing you into the persecutor position (although you know in your heart you are the victim).

The article stated that ironically the way OFF the victim triangle is through the persecutor position. Just like in your life, when you choose to step off the triangle, the people in the other positions are going to view your actions as persecutory. You have chosen to quit being your mother's victim ... and since you can't change her, you necessarily severed contact with her. However, she and your stepbrother (and probably other rescuer family members) see your stepping off the victim triangle as persecutory.

[Lucky]

A very good observation HeartofPilgrimage!!

[swimmer]

That makes perfect sense, no wonder I feel like the 'bad' one when I walk out.  I like the term target.... for me it implies that I'm simply in the way of the persecution, and it's not personal.

Swimmer

[Ales2]

(((((((((((Hi Swimmer))))))))))))

I completely understand what you are going through. I have the same problem with my relatives, including my NMs sister, my Aunt, who I believe to be an NM herself (or maybe its just the restraining order my cousin had to get back in '84 to keep his NM away from his baby daughter and his wife....hmmmmm)  Anyway, I know that I am being judged by my relatives about my relationship with my Mother, yet they have no idea how she verbally abuses me privately.  My NM also does not believe that negativity, comparison, undermining, demeaning, devaluing and lying is a form of VA, she only believes it exists in the form of "you are a thoughtless little pig" (thank you Alec Baldwin) and "I wish you were never born" and other assorted profanities.

Awhile back I decided people kind of fit into three categories - acquaintances (co-workers, activity/volunteer friends, professional contacts etc) that have no business knowing my family business and I tell them so, with "my family is fine, thanks for asking" fine meaning, I can handle it just fine. Some of these people like to pry, possibly to use it against me in the future, so there is good professional reason to be guarded. The second group is probably the people I could share this information with the true friends, close friend, family that might understand or care enough to understand. I've noticed that they by their choices with me, put themselves into one category or another. One is the judgement category, which means they don't understand, nor do they care to go beyond their comfort zone and see new things. The second category is the people who accept me as I am. even with the feelings I have toward NM, even in cases where they dont understand the Nism, they seem to accept me. Those are the real gems which I keep a mental note of and in some ways, because of this, I have a more special relationship with them.

Swimmer, I totally get what you are going through. I'm 41 and have missed my chance to have a family because I have been spent so much time doubting myself, there was no time for anything else. My NM sabotaged anything I did up until I discovered her Nism in 2008. I am still working through it.... but have a long way to go. Hopefully, I'll a family of my own is in my future, and it will be one without my NM in it.  Be grateful and attentive to your husband and daughter (it sounds liek you already are;) they are precious.

[bearwithme]

Ales2 said:

I'm 41 and have missed my chance to have a family because I have been spent so much time doubting myself, there was no time for anything else. My NM sabotaged anything I did

This comment has so much insight.  Good for you for seeing this!!  I did this exact thing to myself and waited to have kids because I was too wrapped up doubting myself and my ability to even have a baby, for no good reason whatsoever.  I just never believed that I deserved a husband and/or a child so I never sought out that avenue of life.

Note:  But a miracle happened and I got pregnant in 2006, and that shot my "theory" to sh*t (so-to-speak).  Now I'm in my 40's and most likely can't have more kids like I want. 

The time we spent doubting ourselves has robbed us of our life's potential.
Thank you for sharing.

Bear.

[swimmer]

Ales2-

Your category theory is very insightful.  I have something like this in my life, but not spelled out so clearly.  This reminds me that through the NC with my mother, I might realize who really are my real friends, or the close friend category.  I'm thinking one way to feel better about it, is people who judge me, maybe didn't care all along.... or maybe it's a sign to move on to a more casual connection (who knows, people grow over time and may realize what's happening). I believe in being loyal to friends, but not to the extent I feel like they don't care.

& it's never too late to discover and create family.  Maybe your journey to create a family is not what you thought.... I'm not suggesting anything in particular....  I live in a city where the average age to get married and have kids is  38 (and that is average).  With your insight into "life in general" after having a NM with your healing journey... You have much more capacity to create family than most people.

& Bear that is a great point to remember, to cherish the present and grow.  One thing I've let myself do is grow away from people.  Slightly different topic.... No person should ever rob us of our gift to develop and grow as adults.

[cantors.counter]

  Well.... I'd rather be the horrible daughter to her, than the emotionally unavailable wife and mother to my own daughter. 

Good for you!

[swimmer]

Ales2- I just remembered a really big thing which relates to what you said about NM sabotage.  This is what happened with my career life.  I'm an extreme overachieving underachiever if that makes sense.  My mother and GC brother would always proclaim I wouldn't understand when I tried to talk.  I figured out over time I'm not stupid, and quite the opposite.  I feel like it's too late too persue an avenue to provide me with the intellectual stimulation I want while I secure a financially secure future.  It's probably not too late, but I really feel lke it.... I think it's because I feel she robbed me of the opportunity.

Swimmer

[Butterfly]

I feel like it's too late too persue an avenue to provide me with the intellectual stimulation I want while I secure a financially secure future.  It's probably not too late, but I really feel lke it.... I think it's because I feel she robbed me of the opportunity.

Swimmer

I completely understood you, Swimmer.  I "started" my life at age 35--meaning I started at the university, I started a relationship, I started working, then I had children.  Before that age, I simply did what I was told to do by NM and never tried anything that I was interested in.  If I did, NM would sabotage it, so, I learned not to try. 

I'd say that probably it's never too late, but, for me, it did take a long time to establish my new life.  But, definitely worth it. 


(Hi, Bones!)

[cantors.counter]

I'd say that probably it's never too late, but, for me, it did take a long time to establish my new life.  But, definitely worth it. 

I agree completely. I, too, didn't really start living my life until I was 30+ years old. Is there a pattern here? I remember reading somewhere that children of Ns often don't go through the normal teenage rebellion stage until much later in life. Could this be what this is: when we finally decide to live our own lives and become our own person? When put that way, it seems to sound that way.

All those things I'd been trained NOT to be were the very things that I'm happiest being. There's also the things that built a wall between my NF and me. After I became that which he quite literally hated, a stay-at-home mother, he moved on to infecting other poor souls.

[Ales2]

I just never believed that I deserved a husband and/or a child so I never sought out that avenue of life.

 Bear, I learned that I see myself (suggested by NM) as inferior and unloved and second best which is why I attracted no serious relationships until two years ago...

The time we spent doubting ourselves has robbed us of our life's potential.

Another one, yes, I have 71 100 page journals dated from 1983 to present....all musings on a life unfulfilled and doubting why I am left out. I realize I've probably spent 2 hours per day journaling from about age 15 on... I am trying to stop journaling actually and put it into a book which I have outlined.

I'm an extreme overachieving underachiever

A lightbulb went off in my head - this is exactly what I am. I can write a business plan, write a book, a script, a pitch for a TV show and many other film/tv projects that never go anywhere.... I keep working and working at it...without any success. I also volunteered for one organization for eight straight years w/o any notice and ran 5 marathons....w/o any recognition from NM. She expects me to be a machine and then its not good enough anyway..... I've always been as hard working as everyone of my successful friends...but somehow I come out the loser (and no, this is not my pessimism/perspective)  I dated online for 7 years, had one relationship and over 200 1-2 dates. everyone else I know who put themselves out there succeeded in finding their mate and married...but, nope, not me.  Oh, yeah and see above - 71 journals for one book is overachievement for sure...

I remember reading somewhere that children of Ns often don't go through the normal teenage rebellion stage until much later in life. Could this be what this is: when we finally decide to live our own lives and become our own person?

Another one - this must be true for me too, because I was never rebellious in the years when I should have been. I was always a passive obedient child (which cost me my last job, btw) which has brought alot of problems for me in the workplace in terms of working for very abusive bosses. I mistakenly thought that criticism was part of life, a life where you grow and that it came from a loving place. I got this rotten lesson from NM. As a result, I attracted and felt very comfortable working for critics, many of whom were malicious and cruel, just like NM.  A friend opened my eyes to why I attracted what I did by asking who my original abuser was and I without any thought, said NM. Then she suggested I check into research Nism online to see if my Mom was one. When I figured it out, I cried for about a week. (My neighbors were about ready to take me the hospital one day - no joke!)

I'd say that probably it's never too late, but, for me, it did take a long time to establish my new life.

I'm going on my second year dealing with this and trying hard to emerge in m y new life...I hope its moving along. I've been depressed and I need one or two things (like a new job and a new relationship) to come along to help me move along my way.... I hope that this time, I will have learned and changed enough to really move forward and fill in the gaps in my life.... Marianne Williamson once said "whatever you are going through you are growing through" I hope this is that time for me....

Thanks, there were alot of great insight in here.

((((Swimmer)))) I do find that friends who understand have a special place... all the best to you








 

[BonesMS]

I feel like it's too late too persue an avenue to provide me with the intellectual stimulation I want while I secure a financially secure future.  It's probably not too late, but I really feel lke it.... I think it's because I feel she robbed me of the opportunity.

Swimmer

I completely understood you, Swimmer.  I "started" my life at age 35--meaning I started at the university, I started a relationship, I started working, then I had children.  Before that age, I simply did what I was told to do by NM and never tried anything that I was interested in.  If I did, NM would sabotage it, so, I learned not to try. 

I'd say that probably it's never too late, but, for me, it did take a long time to establish my new life.  But, definitely worth it. 


(Hi, Bones!)

((((((Hi, Butterfly!))))))

Bones

[JustKathy]

When I went NC (more than two years ago), my father called me and commanded me to call my mother because she thinks I don't lover her anymore.  (too true)  What a manipulative and dirty trick!  When I explained to my father about my mother's most recent bout of verbal abuse, he told me to "get over it, your mother's always been that way."

I  went NC with my mother about seven years ago, and shortly thereafter, she ordered my father to remove me from their will. I only recently found out about it. My father told me quite casually, as if it were no big deal. He's known for seven years that I had been disinherited, yet continued to phone us weekly to make small talk about the weather. Recently, my husband called him out on his behavior, and asked how he could hurt his own daughter that way. He got the same response that you got from your father, "Oh well, you know Kathy's mother, that's just how she is."

After that, my father didn't call for about a month, then started calling again as if we'd "gotten over it," trying to make small talk about the weather, the fruit market, whatever. My husband told him outright that neither of us were comfortable making small talk with someone who had removed his first born child from his will as an act of retaliation. He hasn't called back since, and if he does, he can chat with the machine. As far as I'm concerned, we're now NC with him as well. And you know what? I don't care. And I'm really starting to not care what other family members think. I guess I've finally reached an age where I've found peace with my situation. I'll never have a loving family, so move on, and find happiness in my friends and my work. Once you stop letting it get you, you'll be MUCH better off for it. That said, the pain will never go away, and it will always creep back into your mind and get to you. But if you can find some inner peace and acceptance, it makes it MUCH easier.

[Ales2]

HI JustKathy - I was told years ago when my dad passed (2000) that there was no will because Dad believed in giving it while he's alive. Me and my brother inherited nothing (we were 32 and 30 at the time).  My father was very successful in his career, but the will thing always stumped me.  Now that I know she is an N, it actually makes more sense. . I've come to believe that she purposefully never pushed for him to make a will because it would beg the question - what about your two kids?  I think it was her way of taking control of everything....and she did....

Sorry to hear about your troubles...(((((((JustKathy)))))))