Parentification

[HeartofPilgrimage]

Something JustKathy was writing about, about her father talking about her mother and dismissing her mother's N actions as "well, you know how she is," triggered a thought.

You know how some people talk about parentification, when the kid takes care of the parent, assumes the parental role? I never thought that was me because my parents did physically care for me --- in fact, my mother insisted on doing everything herself (because nobody else could do it right). Yet ... I think I was emotionally a parent. The reason I think that is because toward the end of his life, my father became increasingly frantic about who was going to take care of my mother when he was gone. He was in so much pain for so long (with cancer), and yet just would not let go of life ... and he told my mother outright that if it weren't for her he would be totally ready to go home (to heaven). What he was afraid of was not death but of leaving her to fend for herself. He saw her emotional fragility apparently. And toward the end he increasingly put that burden onto me ... which was not fair but I suppose he had no other way of coping with dying and leaving this entirely emotionally dependent person behind (that he took on the care of long ago).

I think that he must have seen her emotional fragility clearly --- that's how he coped with her narcissism. He saw it as a weakness rather than an evil flaw. And that's how he kept his sanity and would disagree with her without getting into massive raging arguments ... he kept his eye on the ball, that she was fragile rather than evil. Actually, I would say my mother has more of the borderline pattern of personality traits (undiagnosed though), rather than the narcissistic pattern ... but both of those are narcissistic type disorders, just different patterns ... my mother is not consistently N as I have said before but rather flip-flops around.

Anyway, somehow he recognized early on that I had strength. Again, it's not necessarily fair but it is validating to realize that.

[Hopalong]

Pilgrim....oww.

On his deathbed, my father did not relax until I spoke these words:

I promise you, I'm going to take good care of Mom.

Instant relief. I could see it. It helped him release.

Eleven years later, I'm fighting through the results of NMom sticking a knife in my back with her secret will--out of revenge, I think because I finally blew up after she manipulated me beyond my limit), and N(P, actually)brother dragging me to court for more than his share of the estate, which is all and only the house I'm living in.

(He's absolutely not going to prevail, but meanwhile, the lawyers stay busy. And it's exhausting to be in limbo so long.)

Agggh.

Though I certainly DID take good care of her, I wish I'd said:
I promise you, I'll do the right thing by Mom.

That would've included compassion and responsible attention, but NOT being her caregiver. Or living with her. How I wish I'd had that boundary in place in my psyche--as a healthy person who felt entitled to pursue their own life would have.

What was I thinking? Those were all the pre-discovery-of-narcissism days, before that electric moment when I first read the NPD criteria and went, oh my god.

Too late, but maybe it'll help someone with a CoD and N parent pair not speak those fatal words to the dying CoD, and give themselves over to a hopeless and self-squashing cause.

"Take good care" meant, without it needing to be said, that she would be catered to and my universe would revolve around her just as his had for 50 years. And I didn't know that's what I meant when I said it, I was too trained.

Hops

[river]

I think you describe this situation with insight and sensitivity.  You see all these inticate issues too, rather than a good / bad split.  (although sometimes that IS appropriate). 

A severe borderline can be profoundly manipulative, crazy-making etc, she could well have been a b.line rathen than N.  Fam relationships so often go in these patterns, one person caretakes the other, and, in fact enables them.   Its often the schizoid that does that too, they move all their needs out o f the way, even when he was dying!   I did exactly the same with my worst N partner, I saw his needing inner child and wanted to reach it.  And that became an abusive / addictive relationship, so theres definately a pattern, Ive got a schizoid Dx too.   
The sad part is that from what you say, he saw her needs all writ large, and not yours, or  you as an individual ~ ie trying to pass his role onto you.  So good that you can now stand aside and be aware of all these behaviours. 

[river]

  Though I certainly DID take good care of her, I wish I'd said:
I promise you, I'll do the right thing by Mom.
   

........but thats a good one to learn from.......... useful words to remember

[HeartofPilgrimage]

river, thanks for your thoughtful insights ... yes, these issues are complex and it is kind of sad that her needs overshadowed everything else. Extra sad because I don't really think she will ever understand how much compassion she has been given, by both him and me. (Not that I'm trying to make myself out to be a martyr ... I'm not! Quite the contrary, I am learning to set reasonable boundaries and stick to them ... I have no desire to die a martyr's death for any reason!!!)

Hops, over the months of reading what you write, I feel like we have lived parallel lives in many ways. I was fortunate when it came to my dad's death, because my husband was there to stand in the gap. When my dad found out his arm had to be amputated because of the cancer, he and mother came to our house and he sat in my living room and said point-blank, "YOUR MOTHER is going to need you." I froze. I could hear the "giant sucking sound" of me getting sucked back into enmeshment with them both. Thank God, my loving husband stepped up to the plate and responded, "She and I will make sure that you have all of your needs met" (or something to that effect). Effectively inserting himself into this terrible choke-hold my dad was putting me in (how do you deny a desperate request from a man who is dying of cancer and has just found out his arm has to be amputated?).

Later on, Dad called and got all choked up because I was "putting school ahead of family." (It had been obvious for some time that he and Mom both resented me going back to school in midlife --- education past the point of the undergraduate degree that they had paid for was not in their value system ... and apparently both of them thought I owed the rest of my spare time to serving them. With Dad, again I think it was resentment that I was not available to take care of MOTHER, not himself ... but still, it wasn't right). He had noticed when I froze up ... I knew I could not give my parents a blank check to take over my life again. When he started the martyr thing on the phone, I was able to say calmly, "Dad, HUBBY AND I will both together make sure your needs are met." You have to understand, that for some reason both of my parents were kinda in awe of hubby, and making sure he was included in the mix was an insurance policy that I could maintain some reasonable boundaries.

I get really annoyed with my husband and sometimes complain about the tablespoonful of narcissism that he has himself. But I have to give him credit for this --- he stuck by me and absolutely helped me keep my relationship with my father while maintaining reasonable boundaries. And after my dad died, my husband gave me kudoes for conducting myself in such a way that I was able to continue a relationship with my dad. He said that if I had not set up boundaries (basically learned in middle adulthood how to keep my dad at arm's length), we would not have been able to have a relationship at all. I would have gotten too angry and the relationship would have blown up.

At the time of my dad's death, I didn't realize how disordered my mother was. Classic codependent stuff going on ... outwardly it looked like my dad was really the one with the problems. He fought her battles and even when she was being ugly to me, half the time she would attribute it to him (YOUR DAD SAID ... etc.). He was the child of a narcissist (his dad), and his mother spent most of her adult life in a depressed state ... back in the day when there were no meds, nobody understood or talked about depression, and psychotherapy wasn't available in a rural area of east TX. Like most of us on this board, I think he went through life thinking that catering to an N was normal. Also, think about how confused I get about my mom ... sometimes she's really N, sometimes she seems almost normal ... and I have multiple degrees in psychology, dadgum it!

It was only after my dad's death that stuff really got weird. My mom actually said several times, "I don't even know who I am anymore." I thought that must be common for new widows that were married almost 50 years ... until other signs of N (and the borderline pattern of radical emotional swings) started to show up.

Has anybody ever thought that it's weird that often people with poor boundary issues get cancer? PLEASE don't think I mean that ONLY people with poor boundaries get cancer, or even that MOST of the time there's a relationship. It's just that I found out through my dad's illness that cancer is basically an immune system failure (immune system being the body's defense against disease--- boundary). My dad had had lifetime problems with skin cancer (basil cells) and then ultimately died of a rare cancer (Merkel cell carcinoma) that his docs said they think starts in hair follicles (surface of the body, another boundary area).

I just find it curious and wonder if all of us working on erecting and maintaining appropriate boundaries will make us physically healthier as well. I hope so, anyway.

[river]

Yes.  I have had these thoughts.  And as I hear you saying this, Im filled again with horror, sorrow, and etc.   My father also died of cancer, my mother the N.   Her attitude to him was to use and discard, (and worse).  Her needs and predilictions were always the centre of the family agenda.  His children were brainwashed by her, and that included against him.     

I was co-opted by her and joined in her ethos till I was a teenager and realized something was terribly yuk, then went from being 'sweet' into white hot anger (at exaclty 13and 1/2 lol).   
You know how many psychological approaches talk about:
'it requries severe abuse, neglect, trauma, to create a disorder or a developmental arrest?   
Well what they totally miss out is what about 'slow poisoning'?   ............ that involves no neglect or trauma at all, (or it may, but in cases like my family, it did not)
  It involves a 'hidden intent', a dynamic, with nothing one can see, but instead you feel it.  Its a drip drip inward corrosion by intent, AKA 'projective identification', does this tally with your understanding? 
I just want to add, this it the ONLY place that I have found the possibility of real understanding for this stuff, Im amazed ~  how under wraps this dynamic is!!?

[nolongeraslave]

Definitely. I also used to think that my parent took care of me physically and financially, BUT I often did have the "parentification" role when it came to emotional needs.

My mom would come to me complaining about her friends, her marriage problems (she did this when I was only 12), and would guilt me saying "You're not supporting me!"  Everything was about taking care of HER feelings. She would use her "bad life" to manipulate me into doing what she wanted-whether it was wearing my hair how she wanted, making friends with only people that made her "look good", wearing stuff that she bought, etc. If I didn't do what my mom wanted, she behaved like a two year old that had a 'bad mom."


 I didn't realize this, until I read "Never good enough." My mom raised me to think that I was the spoiled brat, when it was really the other way around.


My step-dad used the sexual abuse to get me to take care of his "emotional needs." I know it's sexual, but I think he was using me to vent about his marriage problems about my mom.   Indirectly, he was guilting me to "please him", because my mom wasn't being "good" to him.

[sKePTiKal]

I'll jump into this discussion with a big "me too"!!

It feels very awkward ("you bad, bad girl") to set firm boundaries with my mom, who is currently on a mission to enlist me in her current version of manipulative paranoia in my brother's household, while simultaneously offering my MIL half of my home. Thankfully, mom hasn't even brought up the idea of moving in with me - au contraire, she wants her own place instead - while in complete denial that she's on that decline where she's not able to be as independent and to take care of her basic needs anymore. Not that she took care of herself adequately before, either - but at least her delusions about her own competence made a little more sense, 10 years ago... despite the piles & piles of stuff she hoarded and the actual garbage and unsanitary conditions.

Yep River... there's a lot projective identification in parentification situations. My mom expects from me and puts me in situations where I almost have no choice except to deliver - the care that a child expects from a parent, emotionally - intellectually - and in our particular dance - physically, too. And I dare not try to put on the other hat - and expect her to fulfill her role. That generally results in a meltdown on her part. The "middle way" for me, is to work on my boundaries with her. I don't always pick up the phone when she calls, with same old tired monologue and the same delusional version of reality and plotting.

Hops, sweetie... you're tired right now. You did do the right thing, with as much compassion as humanly possible. It is regrettable only that your Nmom didn't... and left you only this frustrating, agonizing, and ungrateful set of circumstances to try to survive. Take care of Hops now... And that means not owning the "regret" that should've belonged to your parents.

[JustKathy]

I'm going through the opposite right now. My NM is going to die before my father. He's ten years older than she is, and I always figured that she would outlive him (and possibly her children) because she was simply too evil to be killed. I guess the difference is that my father always ate healthy food and exercised rigorously, while M sat inside eating junk food and watching Oprah.

Anyway, my father never saw this coming and is freaking out because he doesn't think he can live without her, and I think he may be right. For fifty years he has been completely controlled by her. He does what he is told, always. If he wants to go golfing, he has to ask for permission. He asks permission to watch a particular TV show. Emotionally, he's like a 12-year old child. When I first found out that M had cancer, my first reaction was that F would not be able to function without her. Well, he has now convinced himself that he is going to die shortly after she does, because he can't live without her (he says can't LIVE without her, I say can't FUNCTION without her). My therapist says that in cases like this, a "sympathetic death" is not uncommon. My father has already prepared for this by giving their remaining assets to the GC and making burial arrangements for himself.

Sadly, my sister, who is completely under NM's control, lives just a few doors down. I have a feeling that she will have to assume the role of the wife, and I don't envy her. If someone isn't there to tell my father when to eat, when to go to the post office, what to watch on TV, he probably will just drift away.