Author Topic: rambling realizations  (Read 3699 times)

English

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Re: rambling realizations
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2010, 07:51:03 AM »
Thanks for your support Bones. ((((((Bones))))))  It's nice to know I'm not the only one.  That definitely would make it tougher with Asperger's. 
As my students sometimes say, "THAT"S NOT FAIR!!!!"  If only the world would hear all our pleas of how things aren't fair.  Wouldn't that be nice if life was fair for everyone.  Hmmm...NM's would bring punishment to themselves.  We would all be happy and healthy and loved and... that's alll I need: happy, healthy, loved.

BonesMS

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Re: rambling realizations
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2010, 08:40:41 AM »
Thanks for your support Bones. ((((((Bones))))))  It's nice to know I'm not the only one.  That definitely would make it tougher with Asperger's. 
As my students sometimes say, "THAT"S NOT FAIR!!!!"  If only the world would hear all our pleas of how things aren't fair.  Wouldn't that be nice if life was fair for everyone.  Hmmm...NM's would bring punishment to themselves.  We would all be happy and healthy and loved and... that's alll I need: happy, healthy, loved.

I agree.  It would be nice, especially when N's get what they deserve!

Bones
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swimmer

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Re: rambling realizations
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2010, 07:23:58 PM »
Hi English-  I don't think you are rambling, it's quite the contrary actually.  I don't articulate some situations/memories which might help me to heal by getting validated.  I'm so exhausted over familial narcissism....  Anyways, I think it's so admirable you articulate the feelings you have.  So pat yourself on the back:)....  you've made me realize it is important to share thoughts and feelings with people who understand to get through the haze of what's happened. 

On a side note, a good 12 step motto to consider "Fake it till you make it".   This gives me the confidence to get through situations I feel inadequate.  The practice of "pretending" I'm just like other people helps me get through the hard times, to keep in the game of life.... So I don't get forgotten on account of being silent.  It's not always easy when feeling worthless, but sometimes the person I'm talking to gets engaged in what I'm faking (making small talk about the weather) and that plants a mustard seed of hope.

swimmer

English

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Re: rambling realizations
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2010, 04:06:39 AM »
Thanks Swimmer.  Hmmmm...Fake it til you make it.  Could you give me examples of that?  This sounds really interesting.

swimmer

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Re: rambling realizations
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2010, 07:37:52 PM »
English-  so basically the way I take fake it till you make is.... Even though I don't feel confident, I go through the motions of a person with confidence.  If I'm taking a class and feel like I'm going to ask a dumb question, I go ahead and ask it..... even though it doesn't feel comfortable.  Many times I find other people might have the same question.  I don't have his insecurity about asking questions hardly now, but I did years ago.  My family always told me I wasn't smart, so I felt stupid for asking questions. 

Basically we all have a right to engage in life, so even if I don't feel like I deserve to breathe and live.... I try to act as if, then a positive life affirming experience follows.  Like affirmations.... I deserve to raise my hand and learn in this class, I paid for it and I deserve to learn.

Swimmer

HeartofPilgrimage

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Re: rambling realizations
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2010, 07:57:41 PM »
Swimmer, it's funny you should say that ... when I first started back to school, I dressed up every day like a professional although I still felt like a full-time-stay-at-home mom inside. And, I always wore a little medallion with my undergraduate school's crest on it, which I would finger when I felt inadequate, because I had a great undergraduate education. Now, dressing up doesn't seem nearly as important because now I feel much more like a "real" professional.

swimmer

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Re: rambling realizations
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2010, 08:31:54 PM »
Heart of Pilgrimmage- What a profound impact we can make on ourselves without even having to talk, dressing up:).  How resourceful of you, thx for sharing:)

swimmer

English

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Re: rambling realizations
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2010, 09:28:06 AM »
Memories:
When I was very young, I would say, "Name Jane" to NM.  She thought this was so cute.  I'm suspicious that it was my reaction to her ignoring me or talking about me in front of me.  I wonder this because I REMEMBER saying when I was somewhat older that "I'm a real person." 

Other memories:  not once but twice NP's raked up our toys and threw them out because we did not keep our rooms clean.  Of course NM did not bother teaching us HOW to keep a room clean, nor did she help clean; she just threw out the toys.  But she also thought cleaning was beneath her because she grew up with a maid.  She claimed she didn't know how to clean because she wasn't taught.  She believes that DH is OCD because our house is always clean and organized.  We share in the cleaning.

I was told what instrument I would play in band.  I was told which college I would go to.  I wasn't given choices.  So now I worry about what the correct choice is.  I had to fight to get a $10/month clothing allowance.  I also had to use that for ANYTHING else I wanted.  I was not allowed to get a job in high school.  NF believed that since I stopped growing at 12, that I didn't need new clothes until the ones I had wore out.  I wish they had helped me with career choices.  Telling me how to achieve my career goals.  Since I never ask for help and am afraid of people, I went to college but took the wrong courses for what I wanted to be.  At one point I wanted to change my major, but NF wouldn't let me.  I've gone through life accepting that I have no choices in life.  So now I have a tough time making decisions. 

So...I'm not a real person.  I'm just an extension of NP's.  When i have success, it's their success.  When I have failure, it's because I'm an idiot.  Sorry, I seem to be wallowing in self-pity. 

gratitude28

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Re: rambling realizations
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2010, 09:44:57 PM »
English,
All of those rambling realizations fit into my situation too!!
NM also cries to get attention, but never in the way you cry if you love something. Her brother died this year and she went to get a dress for the funeral and then said, "I found some great jeans, too. I really needed to go shopping." That's some empathy!!!!!
I am also weird and annoying because I do not share their likes in many things. I get to hear about it over and over and over.
I love swimmer's "fake it 'til you make it." So true! That helped me get through a lot!
Also - as for the "negative tapes" - it just takes practice to overcome them. I used to always think rotten thoughts about people. I had to stop EVERY TIME I did and ask myself WHY I thought that. Usually it was just a repeat of what I had hear. I no longer have those thoughts. I have replaced them with kind words. There is always something nice to see in a person... her hair, smile, shirt...
Give yourself time! You are doing great!
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Logy

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Re: rambling realizations
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2010, 10:51:06 PM »
Portia,

Great comment:   "We don't have to be perfect or even near-perfect. Nobody else is. Living is taking actions, risks, making mistakes. And we aren't responsible for how our NMs choose to live their lives."

I admire those who embrace their imperfection!  My NM's favorite comment to me (as a child), to my nephews, to my daughter, is "oh, you did that PERFECTLY!"  I hate the word perfect.

Swimmer, "fake it til you make it" has been my lifetime motto.  I'm trying to analyze this statement and have a few thoughts.  Fake it - my life story.  Brought me alot of pain by faking it.  After all, that's what my FOO was all about.  But I never was able to "make it" until I learned to STOP faking it.  (By making it, I mean feeling like I am a whole person with value.)

Another rambling realization! :)

English

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Re: rambling realizations
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2010, 06:00:45 AM »
I don't know why I keep in contact with NM!  Ugh!  I let her take me to see Alice in Wonderland 3D yesterday.  I was tense during the entire movie.
At one point she asked me if I  get her family's emails.  i said no.  i said I don't want them.  She said she was disappointed because she wrote a great email to the family.  Weird.  She uses me as her NS, and I provide it.  Why oh why do I do this?  I feel sorry for her because she needs her NS to feel good about herself.  She bribes me all the time.  I bought this for you; when can you come get it?  I just can't do this anymore.  Checking with you all:  I don't have to tell her why I don't want to go to her house, or why I don't want her to come to my house, Right?  I just say I can't.  This reminds me of my life always having to explain why I don't want to do something.  I go blank with no good reason, so i say I will do whatever it is. 

I'm afraid of her.  Both my brother and I are her GC"s, but he lives a thousand plus miles away and barely has to deal with her.  Plus he is a psychologist and can keep her in her place.  I'm afraid if I do not bend to her wishes that I will become a scapegoat.  I live in a small town and am afraid of what she might do.  I can't move at this point either... I am so damaged by her.  My life is difficult even with her not iin it.  I am afraid of everyone and avoid any conflict.  I trust no one.

For my birthday my NF (or whatever is wrong with hime-when i was younger i diagnosed him as schizoid PD but I haven't seen him in years.) sent me a disc of childhood photos; I can't look at it.  My memories of childhood with my NP's are all bad.  I have no good memories of growing up.  Just neglect, gaslighting, yelling, screaming, plates and glasses being thrown I don't remember any loving from NM.  I'm so afraid of NF that any time I picture him I cringe.  When his mother passes, I will not go to her funeral because he will be there.  Even now when there is a white car in front of me and I see a silhouette (sp?) of a man, I get uncomfortable.  (He always drove a white car.)  Thanks for listening, just needed to talk.  I'm just trying to process so much.  i'm slowly learning, but I am learning.

Hopalong

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Re: rambling realizations
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2010, 12:02:45 PM »
((((English))))

You need some 3-D amazons.

Do you have a women's support group, a therapy group, an ACOA group (I always think this is a helpful program for children of N's even if the N wasn't alcoholic, because it's a bunch of people supporting each other through healing the aftereffects of growing up with a huge, uncontrollable, thought-twisting mental disorder in the home...)?[Edit: (misspelled "thought") ... and my understanding is that a person can do that honestly at an ACOA group. I believe you can just say, I'm here because I'm trying to heal from the effects of an extreme narcissist parent and I believe they're a lot like the effects of alcoholism. I believe you'd be made completely welcome. If anybody who's done ACOA knows otherwise, hope they'll say.]

I think, though I can't know for sure, but I think, that if you spent regular time, every week, maybe twice a week, in a GROUP setting of people who are healing from primal damage and really supporting each other in that effort...it would give you new strength to deal with these fears.

I really believe it would.

I think there's something in a GROUP process (maybe the more we shy away from the idea of "group work" the more we actually need and would benefit from it) -- that does something NO individual therapy, or isolated thing (even posting here), can do for building a person's strength and self-esteem.

love,
Hops
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 12:34:01 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gaining Strength

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Re: rambling realizations
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2010, 12:59:12 PM »
I relate to your March 16th entry.  I want to reply but I want to think about it first.

One thing that i do as an adult that I was not permitted to do as a child is that I simply do not answer.  I change the subject or turn away.  My father used to do this when he was asked questions.  He acted "above" it all.  My brothers do this as well so I picked up on their tricks and applied them back.  It has worked especially well with my mother.

HeartofPilgrimage

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Re: rambling realizations
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2010, 09:45:26 PM »
Very interesting, English, that you went with your mother to Alice in Wonderland. I was hearing about Lewis Carroll's comment on the story lately ... he said it was about "malice." I have also heard people call dealing with narcissists as "going back down the rabbit hole" (as in Alice in Wonderland) or "going back to Oz" (as in the Wizard of Oz). I think that this is why the first Disney Alice in Wonderland was a total box-office flop ... because they tried to make a cutesy Disney film out of a story about ... malice.

In my opinion, you will just have to take this detaching from your mother thing one step at a time ... one foot in front of the other. One of the things we have all realized her on this board is that we can't MAKE the Ns in our lives stop trying to squelch our voices. We have to instead ... I guess maybe "stop caring about what they do" so much. In some way we have to stop letting everything they do affect us. And it sounds like your practical situation, as well as your emotional situation, requires that that be a step-by-step process. One foot in front of the other.

Michael Mahoney, whose work I admire greatly, wrote a book called Human Change Processes. He explains that, as we unpeel "layers of the onion" (as someone else has recently written here), we eventually get down to "core ordering processes" --- the ways we have of making meaning in our lives and in this world. Often these core ordering processes are what are making us so miserable --- we organize our world around what our parents' values are/were, what they will say about us (or what they would say about us if they were still alive), around jumping through hoops to make an un-pleasable person happy. However, changing these core ordering processes feels like death to self ... facing changing these things is such a painful process THAT IT IS NECESSARILY SLOW. THere is a WISDOM in the slowness of the process of change. So I hope that you will give yourself room to breathe, room to SLOWLY make the changes you want to make, room to move.

The people that want you to be a healthy, happy, whole person --- that includes us on the board and I expect people in your 3D life as well --- don't demand quick and 180 degree changes ... it's OK to change at your own pace. What's important is that you now see soooo clearly what is making you unhappy, and that clarity will impel you to change, there is no question that the change is going to happen.

Maybe you're wondering why I'm focusing on inner change when you feel so stuck in your practical, material, day-to-day circumstances of living in a small town where your mother has some power (maybe a lot of power) to make life difficult for you. I think that as the inner work is done, it will become easier to tolerate the monkey-wrenches she can throw into your day-to-day life, in order to be free of her constant abuse. You will become more resilient and able to tolerate the stress of whatever she is able to do ... and truthfully, I suspect that you will find that other people in your community ALREADY KNOW HER for what she is.