Other parent

[gratitude28]

I know I have brought this up before, but my sister and I are really puzzling over this now, and it really bothers me...

Why does the other parent put up with the N? How can he pretend that she is kind and good? Why does he support her???????

I understand the N... but not other parent.

Love, Beth

[Lucky]

Co dependency?
http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/?s=co+dependent

[gratitude28]

Wow! Lucky, I think some of these really fit!

"Abusive women use non-stop talking, verbal tirades, rage episodes and withdrawing in cold silence which causes you to obsessively ruminate about what you did to upset her rather than wondering what in the hell is wrong with her."

 Taking care of yourself and healthy pursuits are seen as a betrayal to her.

Your family is so controlling. They’re dysfunctional. It’s unhealthy for us to be around them.

Making you feel bad, embarrassed, worthless, ashamed, guilty or afraid to express any special skills, talents or gifts you have. They’ll punish you for being creative, musical, outgoing, funny, business savvy, competent or any quality you possess that makes you feel good and that she envies. This causes identity confusion and diminishes your self-worth.

Unbelievable! So much of this makes sense... the money control, the belittling. I can see her making it out that dad was a bad father or provider. Yuck! I am going to share this with my sister... it will help us understand better. But how do you help that person??????

[Worn]

Sometimes my anger at my f seems to be stronger than my anger at nm.  I see now that he is no longer really his own person.  I don't know if he was when he was younger or not.  I think the almost 50 yrs with nm have taken their toll.  He has almost nothing to add that isn't from her in some way.  It's frustrating for me, because I want to talk to HIM, but it's always like talking to her shadow.  I don't understand it either.  Worn

[gratitude28]

Yes, Worn,
Once I got through the hurt and anger about NM, I was almost more bothered by f. I am amazed that he can close his eyes to what she is. This article really does make sense to me. I can remember so much of her putting him down, making him feel he was not enough for her or us. I always loved my dad, though, so I have hated being angry with him.
But, after, as you said, 40 years, he is a bitter, sad man. He enjoys being alone (no wonder!). He has carved out a little quiet world that he occasionally gets to enjoy. I wonder if he does not deal with us as much because it causes a tirade or some kind of bad reaction????
Sometimes I think you are my long lost sister, Worn!
xo Beth

[Logy]

Agree about being more angry with dad at times than NM.  Sometimes he was more crazy making than NM.  As sis and I became stronger and learned more about n, we would talk to dad and tell him what we learned.  He listened for about 3 weeks and just said "I don't want to talk about this anymore" and shut us out.  But he will still bring up an issue he has with NM but will not allow us to respond.  And he has thrown me under the bus with NM.  Has asked me to do the dirty work "Go protect your sister from Mom" and then when I get abused by NM, right in front of Dad, he just shrugs his shoulders and walks away, not supporting me in what HE asked me to do. 

So I am sometimes angrier at dad than NM.  He knows what she's about and choses to NOT stand up for himself, and, what is worse, NOT stand up for his children.  AND withdraw communication from his children if they want to discuss their concerns with him.

[Hopalong]

It is so easy to see Ns as wolves and CoDs as lambs...

and that's probably because it's mostly true.

Motto:
Get the hell away from Ns
and don't become one yourself.

Whack-an-N! A carnival game like Whack-A-Mole.

Somebody'll invent an electronic version and will make a million.

xo
Hops

[Logy]

Worn.  Beth.

Ditto.

[JustKathy]

At this point in my life, I am also more angry at my father than my NM. At least I know she had a mental illness. What was his excuse?

I spent my entire life making excuses for my father, telling myself that he didn't have a choice because he was afraid of M and/or brainwashed by her. When I was a kid, M was so cruel to him that I managed to convince myself that he was only staying with her for the children, and would dump her once we grew up. But not only did her stay with her, he became more and more dependent on her. Despite everything, I still felt sorry for him, and kept telling myself that he loved me, but was being controlled by her. Then, last year, he told me that I had been removed from his will over a decade ago at M's request. He said it totally off-the-cuff, like it was no big deal, then went on to ramble about his golf game. He told me, in a complete monotone voice, "What's the big deal? There's no money left anyway." I couldn't make him see that it wasn't about money.

That was the moment when I finally realized that the father I worshiped was a co-dependent piece of crap who never loved me. It hurt, BAD. After that final blow, he continued to call every week to make small talk, like nothing ever happened. My husband finally told him to stop calling, because neither one of us knew how to make small talk with the man who had cut his daughter out of the will while leaving everything to the GC. He still doesn't get it, and keeps calling. We just let him talk to the machine now. I honestly don't ever want to speak to him again. I look back on my life, and all the hurtful things he did to me (including physical punishment), and it makes me sick to think that I gave him a free pass because I thought he didn't have a choice. He DID have a choice. As much as I hate NM for what she did to me, I hate F more for standing there and allowing it to happen.

[JustKathy]

http://daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/enabling-father.html

[Lucky]

My father and NM are still together and I also do not understand the whole dynamic between the two. However I am much more angry with my NM then I am with my father. Yes, he is quite passive and seems to withdraw from getting in touch with me, it is always my NM who gets in touch. However my father never treated me badly like my NM did. And at times he did stand up for me or himself but not often enough I think. On the other hand my own husband was in a marriage with a Borderline/narcissistic woman for twenty years and he did try to stand up for himself at the time but it always escalated in terrible fights even with the children present. After their divorce she still tried to control him and keep him on a string and she succeeded quite a bit. He even went on Holiday with her and the children once because she said to him it would be good for the children  . After he met me she started a smear campaign that seems to have been rather effective. So I think being passive is something horrible but when standing up for yourself being the (ex)partner of a NM can also cause horrible results. 

[Ami]

Yes, yes, yes to the sycophant husband of an N.
I was just thinking about it, today.
It MUST be a disease of sorts.
I mean WE have our stuff and a lot of it is bad, too.
I guess the spouses of N's are mindless and heartless automatons.
That would to it ! lol                                                                                               Ami

[Logy]

Ami,
Thanks for expanding my vocabulary!  Sycophant!  Exactly.

JustKathy,
Here is a quote from the link you provided that really touched a nerve with me.

I remember as a child feeling very lonely and left out because their love for each other was a closed circle and there was no room for me in it.

When I see tv shows, commercials of mom and dad and kid all snuggled together, laughing, sharing the love, I feel like crying.  I vividly remember as a child looking at NM and dad snuggled together on the sofa.  Me, standing alone, looking at them.  God, how I wanted someone to snuggle with me!  Neither EVER said "honey, come over and join us".  And when I look back at family pictures, there is not a single one, not one, of dad, NM, me, together, arms around each other.

[Worn]

When I see tv shows, commercials of mom and dad and kid all snuggled together, laughing, sharing the love, I feel like crying.  I vividly remember as a child looking at NM and dad snuggled together on the sofa.  Me, standing alone, looking at them.  God, how I wanted someone to snuggle with me!  Neither EVER said "honey, come over and join us".  And when I look back at family pictures, there is not a single one, not one, of dad, NM, me, together, arms around each other.

Oh yeah, the cotton, fabric of your life, commercials can make me bawl.  All those families playing so loving together.  No pictures of my parents and me like that either Logy.  Have one of my dad holding me back because I'm angry, he's laughing. 

Sometimes I think you are my long lost sister, Worn!
xo Beth

Thanks ((((Beth))))   Isn't it strange how many threads of the same color run through all our lives.  Not everyone has all the same threads, but time after time we find someone who has shared a bit of the same loom.  Worn

[Hopalong]

BethLogyLuckyWornAnn,


Come here, honey. [Big, big hug. Wide, safe shoulders.] I am so very sorry you have been hurt this way. I am so sorry I did not know how to make it right with your mother or fix her problems or know how to stick up for you like I should have. That means I had problems too. But I love you with all my heart and I will always be your Dad.

I only wish a fantasy monologue could be real for you.

I was amazed by the power of my Dad's loyalty and love for Nmom. I think I observed yearning (for empathy too, surely on some level it wasn't even present for him, and I times I sensed he yearned for more affection from her...but I'm sure she loved him as much as she knew how--but he had no words or understanding that something was broken in her, I think, being generationally deprived of the knowledge we have about psychology). He was in love with her. And there was no way my pain would have been something he could really understand clearly--or even if he saw it, fully grasp its sources--because he was so profoundly and religiously groomed with a sense of primal loyalty to his spouse...he did kind of abandon me to her damage. I don't think he didn't care, I think he didn't understand what was wrong.

I don't think he could ever figure out why a mother would be bad for her daughter. I don't think he knew how to deal with his sociopathic son. An outsider could see him as weak but I idolized him as gentle.

I guess we have to re-parent ourselves all the way around. Including accessing our own inner fathers.

love,
Hops