Author Topic: Unsaid.  (Read 7604 times)

Meh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2745
Unsaid.
« on: May 10, 2010, 08:36:23 PM »
What I'm compelled to write about is not exactly about a normal voicelessness experience, yet it reminds me of voicelessness.

Voicelessness means a lot of things probably, one aspect of voicelessness is the personal experience that is unsaid.

There is a person in my neighborhood that likes to chit chat with me, an old older-man, I have obliged and talked to him out of neighborly politeness. The last couple of times that this really old dude has initiated chit chat with me his conversation has leaned towards the sexual. The last conversation he had with me he even looked at my body while he was having this type of conversation with me. Needless to say I didn't like this so much.

For the longest time I thought he was a conversationalist just talking in some sort of old fashioned out-dated way in the city I thought he was just friendly. Now I am rather disgusted.

I know it is my right to not be as polite to him as I was in the past, I know that many people would not think twice about this.

In fact a good portion of females probably would have acted bored with him quickly and avoided him.

I'm not sure what my point is of writing this. I am an adult, this is not exactly a big deal but it still has stuck in my mind as something I didn't like.

It's interesting to me how simply and quickly a person can invade another persons boundaries.

I think about how females especially with their physicality have to deal with this sort of thing.

I didn't like that he was insinuating sexual things to me and looking at my body. Because my body is mine.

I wont be so polite to him the next time I see him.  

There is something about the "pressure of politeness". The way he slips his remarks about his sexuality into a "polite conversation".

I suppose I would say that I briefly experience a moment of confusion before I really understand what exactly a person is saying or doing and then I can't always think fast enough to disengage myself from the conversation as quick as I would like to. Because there is some sort of social familiarity.
Of course social familiarity is not some sort of right.

It's not important but I wanted to write it out. It reminds me how the memory of certain events become burdens somehow.

He is not the first older man who has overstepped some social boundary when it comes to sexuality. It bothers me that men feel so comfortable imposing their sexuality onto females that are younger then them, as if they simple have the social right to do so.

I guess it is weird to me that even as an adult, a man can make me feel disgusted about my own sexuality and my own body.

That is how I would describe it, some men make me feel disgusting in my own skin.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 08:49:51 PM by Helen »

Sealynx

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
Re: Unsaid.
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2010, 08:55:59 PM »
I hate what you are describing and it makes me very very angry.  I've gotten to where I stop them dead in their tracks by being very blunt about what I don't like. I usually get called a Bitch, to which I respond, I'm glad we understand each other.

Meh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2745
Re: Unsaid.
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2010, 09:12:23 PM »
Yes, Sealynx,

I think you are right about being blunt and being "bitchy". 

Being bitchy sometimes is just doing what's best for oneself.




Worn

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
Re: Unsaid.
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2010, 10:33:10 PM »
Amen to being blunt and bitchy in these kinds of situations.  I can think of several situations I've been in like this over the years.  Made me feel so weak and dirty.  Hate, hate, hate it!  Blunt, bitchy boundaries, that's what I'm shooting for.  Worn
You live and learn. At any rate you live.  Douglas Adams

Sealynx

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
Re: Unsaid.
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2010, 11:56:55 PM »
In a situation like this I would bet the man has created a fantasy "you" and is now trying to pull the real you into it. Chances are he is no longer relating to the real you at all and focuses ONLY on what encourages his beliefs. That makes it hard to stop without continual confrontation.

I once went to a Star Trek convention just for the fun of it. The place was filled with really nutty men who had memorized every episode and were dressed in real costumes from the series. Marina Sirtis, the actress who played Counselor Troy, was the guest speaker and the very first thing she did was to make it VERY clear that she was not her character. She walked on stage with an air of authority that was nothing like the calm welcoming Troy and thanked everyone for her house, her car and all the things the series had brought her. I got the impression she fully understood what was going on in the minds of some of these men and wanted no part of it!!!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 11:59:00 PM by Sealynx »

swimmer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
Re: Unsaid.
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2010, 02:53:21 AM »
I totally get what is being said here.  It's creepy.  The youth ministry director at my church crossed some line by making an inappropriate sexual comment about me.  He would never have said this if my husband was there.  Needless to say we have to find a new church, as I won't have my daughter anywhere near this guy (I'm not the only one).

I understand Helen about the reaction you had.  For me I think I actually forced a smile and thought, somehow I'm not flattered by this....  Now I'm angry and feel like going to another staff at the church and confiding.  I feel like it's not real though....

Thx for sharing Helen, I really need to face this and this thread has helped me.

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13655
Re: Unsaid.
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2010, 07:50:29 AM »
Hi Swimmer,
Easy for me to say, as I'm not sure what I'd do (or have the energy to do), but I thought of a few questions:

Why do you have to leave?
Can you take your concern to his superiors, through the Board?
Surely he shouldn't be left in charge of youth if he's got some lack of self-control and sexual innuendos issues?
Is this church a place that welcomes people (esp. female people) speaking up and requiring serious respectful treatment?

I hate when people in authority positions are left to them, while those they're misusing slink away.

Hey, this is a chance to use your voice!

Just a thought. I know, each situation is its own. And it's not easy to manage this kind of thing, and I might just leave, too...

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Sealynx

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
Re: Unsaid.
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2010, 09:56:21 AM »
Swimmer,
I agree with Hop. This person needs to be reported, if for no other reason than it is not unusual for pedophiles to "court" a parent prior to "coming on" to the child. In fact they frequently offer to "help out" a single mom. If the parent condones the behavior, the child may not only feel it is okay, but also assume that they can not possibly turn to the parent when they themselves become uncomfortable with similar advances. If any of this happened in earshot of your child be very careful about the behavior you model. We give our children lots of warnings about sex and predators but when it comes to our actions we are often trapped by "female conditioning".  A simple "that was inappropriate" followed by walking off can do a lot to stop someone like this in his tracks and if the child is around it models appropriate behavior.

Helen,
Thank you for bringing this up. You said so well what it feels like to be accosted in this manner. It aims to take advantage of the very kindness and sensitivity that make us women.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 10:28:48 AM by Sealynx »

swimmer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
Re: Unsaid.
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2010, 11:13:14 AM »
Thank you so much you guys!!  You guys are so right, even if I wind up changing churches anyways, this is so wrong and someone needs to speak up.

Thx for your voice Helen:)

Portia

  • Guest
Re: Unsaid.
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2010, 12:01:43 PM »
Go for it Swimmer, you might regret not doing it later, yes?

Just a note on your topic title Helen: I have bucketloads 'unsaid' but I am silent not through the pressure of politeness. Maybe in time I will come to a conclusion about what to say and what not to say, what to do and what not to do. Today I am indulging vengeance fantasies. Luckily I know my fantasies from reality. I think the small daydreams help me to crystalise what I really think. It feels as though I'm becoming resolved, no matter what happens externally. Ha, good job I'm mostly sane.

Did anyone happen to see the BBC interview, Jonathan Ross and David Bowie? Some time ago. Ross asked Bowie a question which resulted in Bowie's confusion, because he didn't understand that Ross was being smutty. When he did understand, his reaction was veiled disgust. The 'confusion into understanding' moment was almost a pressure of politeness moment. Similar.

Meh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2745
Re: Unsaid.
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2010, 09:29:31 PM »
In a situation like this I would bet the man has created a fantasy "you" and is now trying to pull the real you into it. Chances are he is no longer relating to the real you at all and focuses ONLY on what encourages his beliefs. That makes it hard to stop without continual confrontation.

.....Marina Sirtis, the actress who played Counselor Troy, was the guest speaker and the very first thing she did was to make it VERY clear that she was not her character. She walked on stage with an air of authority that was nothing like the calm welcoming Troy......... I got the impression she fully understood what was going on in the minds of some of these men and wanted no part of it!!!


That's funny about Marina Sirtis, I can really picture the predicament she is in with male Star Trek fans confusing character vs. real person.  I think "counselor Troy" was my favorite character because of her empath abilities.


 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 09:36:08 PM by Helen »

Meh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2745
Re: Unsaid.
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2010, 10:27:26 PM »
I totally get what is being said here.  It's creepy.  The youth ministry director at my church crossed some line by making an inappropriate sexual comment about me.  He would never have said this if my husband was there. Needless to say we have to find a new church, as I won't have my daughter anywhere near this guy (I'm not the only one).

I understand Helen about the reaction you had.  For me I think I actually forced a smile and thought, somehow I'm not flattered by this....  Now I'm angry and feel like going to another staff at the church and confiding.  I feel like it's not real though....

Thx for sharing Helen, I really need to face this and this thread has helped me.

These church situations can become very political, the church may protect it's own interests rather then the interests of the community.
Just be emotionally prepared if the church personnel decide that the "whistle blower" is the problem.

Sorry to hear about that. The moral vs. power conundrums people have to face in life. Eh?

« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 10:39:19 PM by Helen »

swimmer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
Re: Unsaid.
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2010, 01:41:49 AM »
Thanks Helen, it helps to remember other people might not see what I do (or want to speak up).  We will probably stay connected with the church, but visit another one for a children's program.

The church is Presbyterian, so there is a fair amount of tolerance for people's voices.  Everything has to be voted on at one time or another.  Speaking up will likely not change anything, but with other people's comments something might change.  If not, no loss... I don't want to be around a bunch of people with thier heads in the sand. 

Sealynx

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
Re: Unsaid.
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2010, 09:19:05 AM »
Swimmer,
I think you said something important there, "with other people's comments," perhaps they already have commented and the pastor has hesitated either because of who complained or because it has only been one other person. Adding your voice may or may not get immediate action, but if this man is a problem, it will support others and create a pattern that can not be ignored.

Portia

  • Guest
Re: Unsaid.
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2010, 11:15:57 AM »
Helen, Swimmer
I read an article about whistle blowers recently. It's something you do for yourself; a tiny minority of WBs survive intact, let alone get any thanks for what they do. It's the nature of people to dislike people who go it alone. They want to stay safe with the group (understandable)and will shun the WB / outsider for fear of being tarnished. But who cares more about belonging to a group than their integrity? Well it depends I guess on what's at stake and whether or not you have a few moral supporters. Go with your heart - not the group.