Just Overwhelmed. Need to Say a Few Things -

[sfalken]

I feel it welling up in me again. I know that my parents are not good to me, or my family. I know the history that led to this place. I know that NM and Dad's behavior are inexcusable. Maybe it's that I have no siblings to commiserate with or draw support from. Maybe it's that I feel somehow without them, and the people who they've taken along in their campaign to smear my wife and I, we are all alone. Sure we have friends, but, aside from my parents, we don't have family here. I keep going over it in my head - trying to understand why it bothers me so much. It should not, since I know who and what they are. Maybe it's just human nature.

I could be wrong, but I think that people who have been physically or mentally abused as children, often feel a certain "pity" for the attacker, and anger toward the parent or other party that enabled it to happen. I definitely recognize in myself, anger at my father, more and more, for not jumping in and doing something about all of this, both then, and now. I'm angry at him for changing, seemingly - into a similar personality (like NM), and for always taking her side. Angry at him for trying to shut me up, and blaming me for every situation, where she instigated something, or insulted or humiliated me or my family - both when I was 6, and 36 - and that he made her look like this 'wonderful' mother in the end of each situation. I'm angry at him for being her pawn, and no longer having what I THOUGHT was the ability to think independently. I'm angry at him for acting like a jerk - to the point of destroying his relationship with myself and my family, in order to defend his so called pride, and his wonderful wife. Angry. Angry Angry. Yes I am also upset and angry with my mother, for very similar reasons and more, but in some weird way, I think her brain is so messed up that she's incapable of anything else. HE at one time appeared to be better than that, and HE was not supposed to abandon the ship, but he did. He just left me there, and then turned on me after that.

NM had 'unfriended' my wife on facebook some weeks back. It was the last link we had with them, since they have blocked their email, and blocked their phones from us. Last week, my wife received a 'friend request' from my NM again, and she accepted - in order to be able to see better what is going on in their weirdo minds. Which.. ok. Last night, I asked my wife what was up with my mother/father on facebook and she told me that my father is writing in the open, using her account - in front of all of the people on their friend list - making nasty comments about me, using status updates. Yesterday's update was pointing out that it was 'father's day' and that his only son had not called him - and others were consoling him with replies - people that I knew very closely growing up and cared about. I just feel so silenced again. I can't reply, or defend myself - or say anything about the context of his remark. There is a reason why I did not call - and it has to do with THEIR actions toward me and my family. THEIR blocking me from calling or emailing. Did he think I was going to honor him for isolating me and blaming me? For abandoning his grandchildren? For enabling my NM again? This is what NC feels like, dad. It's the fruits of your OWN behavior. But I can't say any of that. I'm voiceless again.

As a side note - I remember my parents when I was a child always talking about who their "information carriers" were in any given situation - by whom they could get information to others indirectly, without the carrier person knowing. I have half a sense that my wife was re-friended for this purpose - to carry information to me, however, I do support her in the decision to keep an eye on the situation, and have seen that my parents were smart enough to make sure she can only see certain things on their FB wall, and that she cannot comment.

Ah man.. it's Monday. I just needed to talk and everyone here seems to understand - which is more than I can say for most of the people I know. I appreciate your time reading - and would appreciate any insights. It helps.

[sfalken]

Another thing. One of the things I had told NM during the debacle that led to NC, was that if she should ever start trying to see my older two children via my ex, on her time, - and in doing so, not even try to see my youngest (who lives with my wife and I, naturally), that would be a boundary  - one that could be THE final boundary in this relationship. Both because I want her to stay OUT of my divorce business, and away from my ex, and because of what it implies to my youngest - that they dont really care to have a relationship with her. Not enough.

That said, my ex told me on Friday, that my mother is now calling her about time with my older two, and has redirected cards for them to her address. NM also told my ex that they have 'unblocked' their phones and emails from me now. I assume they are just using her as an information carrier, instead of saying 'hey, we unblocked our phone and email - lets talk'. Officially, I dont know it, I guess.

It also tells me that she/they dont care about what I told them before, or about seeing my youngest. They just. Dont. Care.

[seastorm]

Dear Sfalken,

No wonder you feel overwhelmed. What a complicated situation and it involves so many people over whom you have little or no control, hense your boundaries are way too open to be able to protect you. This style of indirect communication via gossip that your parents use sounds like something out of the Doge's Palace in Venice during the 1500s ie. unhealthy for you.

I understand that you have gone no contact with them but you are not sticking to it. No contact means No contact. The little contact you have is very disturbing. One can't have it both ways. You are using spies in the same way that they do.... to glean information and carry messages. The information you obtain is further upsetting you.

I am very sorry for the insane way that your parents deal with you, it is ghastly. They have major problems. Dont play. Period. Step out of it completely, if just for awhile. Don't get people to tell you what they are thinking and doing. Tell anyone who feeds you info. to stop. It seems to cut you to hear what they have to say. Of course it would. Nothing has changed.

I went non contact with my mother and I had to do it even though I loved her. She was not good for me. Give yourself a break.

Sea storm

[Logy]

SF,
I would feel overwhelmed as well in your situation.  I'm hoping those of us here can provide with some of the support that a sibling might.  However, not even siblings will support each other when confronted with a highly emotional parent situation.

All of the feelings you described, the anger at your dad, the sympathy for your disturbed mother, are normal feelings.  My sister and I have also felt it.  Ultimately, sis and I had to handle things our own way.  And we disagreed with some of the ways each of us handled it.  After decades of living with it, the bottom line for each of us was what had to happen to make each of us feel good about ourselves and our lives.  Both of us acknowledged that our dad had abandoned us.  We both respect and love him for the person he was at one time, but he is not that person anymore.  He made his choice and we had to make ours. 

Sea storm gave some sound advice.  It really is a game with them.  When you decide to stop playing then you can get some perspective.  The separation can be very healing for you.  Not without pain, however.  I found the pain began to slowly go away when I separated, found my strength, and started to respect myself.  The respect issue.  I believe that, even though you have suffered terribly with you, you still respect them and expect the same from them.  A HUGE lesson in my life is that I thought that if I felt it, others did too.  Respect, love, responsibility, sensitivity to others, caring for others.  Found out others might not feel that way.  And that's when I became an individual.   But becoming an individual required me to accept the serious flaws in my parents.

Two things I think are essential for you right now.  Protect your children, with the support of your ex.  Disconnect from any sources that provide you with comments from your parents.

Come back as often as necessary for support.

Logy

[Baddaughter]

Sfalken:

I'm very glad you posted and I hope saying those things helped you.  Your words resonated with me.  Sometimes just ventilating to someone or writing it out, helps gain perspective.  The road to no contact is hard and fraught with peril.  I've been no contact for 10 months -- but she died 5 months ago and the whole family disowned me so it seems like I'm really NO Contact now.  But I am not sure I could have achieved that on my own.   And it is very difficult to make rational decisions and establish priorities, let alone boundaries when one is off balance all the time. 

The part of the post that disturbed me the most was the part about the children.  You opened your Achilles heel to her, the very thing you said was most important.  My mom did that every time!    I'm concerned your ex won't understand the potential gravity of the situtation and give in to the poor poor deprived grandma on the sly -- further confusing your children etc. etc. etc and if she is anything like my dear sweet ma, there are lots of et ceteras.  You've challenged her here -- she is still exerting a lot of power over you -- don't feel bad -- my mom still is from the grave -- but sometimes awareness helps a little bit.  Best of luck to you -- I think of it like a handicap.  I could have diabetes or have been born blind.  Instead I got parents from hell.  We have a little rarer dis ease --
Did anyone put any of that "serpents tooth" crap on Facebook?  The only reason there are no proverbs about the sting of betrayal from the one who gave you life is because it is unfathomable to the "normal" mind.

I haven't been around here that long but when not much is being posted, I have been beginning at the beginning and reading the old posts.  I'm on page 156 I think.  Anyway, if anyone knows of more info about that relationship between the parents -- the abuser and accomplice scenario -- I'd be very interested.  My mom is dead now, I've been observing and experiencing their shenanigans for 52 years and I still don't know "Who is Zoomin' Who here?"  And I may never make sense of it all.  Your mother might be the sick one -- but if you dad has the propensity to be that mean and cruel and sneaky -- could that explain part of how she got that way -- the more I explore it, the sadder it gets.

But  S Falken, I Believe you!  Do the best you can to get back your peace of mind -- I attacked periods of no contact as "one day at a time" proposition  -- even if you relapse into contact -- you will have learned from the experience.  Each time I went back after low or no contact -- it took even less time for me to realize why I done it in the first place.    I can't hear that enough.  I hope it helps!

Biddy 

[sKePTiKal]

Hi there! Yes, it's pretty clear that you're in a maddening, crazymaking situation... so deep breath, already! 

And yes, post all you need to in all the gory detail it requires. That's where the clues to clarity are... the "missing pieces" of the puzzle that will eventually fall into place and create that "AHA!!" understanding for you.

One thing I saw in your description that is interesting to me, is the relationship between abuser and abandoner. Like a double-whammy, the effects on a child - even adult child ('coz emotionally we unconsciously fall back into old FOO "roles") - in those situations is severe and accute. Yet, it seems to be a common "theme" among us. Imagine, for instance, that there was an adult who stood up for you... protected you from the unfair treatment... and went toe to toe with the real instigator. For me, that led to ever increasing tension and antagonism in the FOO (and anxiety & peacemaking & over-responsibility for me)... all the way to alcholism and violence as "normal" in my FOO... and then: the abandonment.

I think anger at the abandonment is a lot healthier than the alternatives: despair, self-sabotage (based on a self-value of "unworthiness"), or depression. It's not pleasant to be angry - in fact, anger may also drag a level of anxiety into the mix, too - but sometimes we just have to own that anger and accept it as righteous anger; at least until there is a "truce" to try to mend (however successfully or unsuccessfully) the breach of trust. This kind of anger isn't aggressive or uncontrolled, mind you. It's not flaming hot rage... rather it's icy cold, and terrifyingly rational and absolute.

After anger, it's possible to see some kinds of abandonment (not all, granted) as a form of self-preservation in the one who physically left; who removed themselves from the cycle of abuse and stopped "playing the game" completely - even though it was at the penultimate expense of relationships with the real victims - the children in the scenario.

At least, that's what popped into my head when I read what you wrote. Is any of it useful for you?

[Hopalong]

Hi Sfalken,
Here for you if you'd like some dialogue...
isolation never helps when coping with this particular kind of anguish.

Imo, changing them or even getting others to "see" it and absolve you
is never going to give you peace.

But growing strong and serene in your self will.
Doing that alone is playing against long odds, hope you'll accept help.

Hops

[lighter]

Sfalken:

Cutting your parents completely out of your life/thoughts is an important option, IMO.

You can't make everyone in your life understand this kind of craziness.

You can't get your NM and father to take responsibility, behave appropriately or apologize.

They're broken and you can't fix them.

I hope you can make peace with that and turn your attention to better things.

Good luck with that.

Mo2

[sfalken]

I think that frustrates me greatly. The fact that no matter what happens, they believe their own lies. They believe they are/were wonderful parents, and in the situation at hand, they have done nothing wrong, and are above reproach. There would never be an acknowledgment of how they've acted.

I'm a justice guy. Perhaps its a bit unrealistic at times, but I drive for justice, which as a child of NM and my father, the relationship was further complicated. I think some children are born into this and manage it passively. Not me. When I see/hear a lie, an exaggeration, or the hint of NM's behavior, I have always had the gut feeling to expose it and fight it. I don't really know another way.

I wonder if something happened to my father and his siblings as kids that made them all grow up with the similar approach to victimized kids. "dont say anything" "pretend it didnt happen" "your mother is always right - you are wrong to speak your feelings" etc. OR - if this is simply a byproduct of a 'normal' person living with a person like NM.  I guess it doesnt matter, but I wonder.

I received a blank email message from my mother's account the other day. I was reminded of suntzu. The enemy is trying to draw me out into the open.

[Logy]

SF,
I understand.  Really. 

I asked my f once - what do you know about NM that makes her the way she is?  He offered some very lame reasons, and then cut my sister and I off from talking about her.  He made the same comments you expressed - ignore it, my life will be miserable if you bring it up.

As a justice guy, you are right to bring it up when you are dealing with society.  When you are protecting those who need to be protected from abuse.  But what I see is that you are dealing with your sanity.  You are asking for justice for yourself.  The only justice you can find for yourself is to have peace with yourself.  Peace can mean putting yourself in a different place.  Ask yourself "why do I allow unjust people to intrude into my just world?"  Just because they happen to be your parents does not mean they are better than you.

So what if they believe their own lies?  Let them own that.  You know your truth.  Live your truth.  It's not about them anymore.

[Hopalong]

Sfalken,
Ditto Logy.

Why do you receive emails from your mother?

Given that she has the power, with one click, to destroy your peace, aiin't it time to filter her email directly to Spam?

Hops

[sKePTiKal]

We all need to have our truth; our justice validated - BELIEVED. Even if it means we have to eventually admit we were wrong about some things, or unfair, or harsh and cruel. What goes awry in and for some people, is that there is an overwhelming, uncontrollable, irrational fear that "not being RIGHT" is the equivalent of annililation - not being or existing. So this becomes their preoccupation and signal emotional need.

Paradoxically, you are experiencing exactly the same struggle to have your truth validated - with different results. You're pretty safe from falling into the same error of thinking that being right is all there is, you know? But you have to admit - your reality and experience is very, very different from NM's. I'll bet that you could even allow her, to be in that reality... IF ONLY she ever believed in the reality of your personal experience - even just a little bit.

This same kind of thing fueled my quest for "justice". And it almost became my purpose in life; my reason for being. One day, someone pointed out that this need to be validated (and vindicated) over my mother's version was exactly what kept me "playing the mind-game"; the way I was baited & hooked every single time and then found myself stuck in the morass of miserable arguing, self-recrimination, guilt, self-doubt.... on & on. I felt like such a fool when I finally saw this. 40 years of trying - but at least, I was a happier fool!    NO BIG DEAL - because once you see how it happens in your own scenario - you simply don't "bite" on the bait that's tossed your way. You don't play the old game...

... in essence, you let it go. And then you're free, have more time and energy, to validate your self, your own reality, your own truth. And in that validation, there isn't any BW "Right" or "Wrong".

Sun Tzu also says: To know your enemy, you must know yourself. All your answers; all your "help" reside within you. Sometimes, we all need help finding what we're looking for and that's not a vulnerability or a weakness... rather it's the greatest strength.

[sfalken]

How thoughtful and insightful all of these replies have been. I really appreciate the input. Its so true - how often I have looked inward and discovered the very things that I thought were "right" as being a part of this larger illness that I was raised in. Sometimes I get tired of looking in the mirror and realizing that I have to adjust my thinking again, but at the same time, I know that that - in itself is what is healthy. NOT seeing your weaknesses or what you need to change, and not adjusting is the abnormality. How true.

This weekend my ex's grandmother passed away, and when she called and we arranged for her to pick up the children, she said "did I tell you that your mom sent me an email? - She told me that she has internal bleeding and might have cancer." Now, I know my mother, if there were even a HINT of truth to that, she would be posting it all over FB, and telling everyone I know. I think the truth of the matter, is that she is dramatizing or completely fabricating, in order to get my attention, and sending it as a message through my ex. Ah. That is her style. I've seen her fake every kind of illness, now - I am 99% sure that this is the same - but faking a bigger illness, cancer. How sick.

I know that quite a few have said that I should block my text messages and email, though I have not - I have been operating under the philosophy of knowing what is going on, and not responding, rather than not knowing and being taken by surprise. Good bad or indifferent, I received a text message from my mother yesterday, for the first time since they blocked my phone. It said "FWD: We are being held by the police in the back of a Meijer with hundreds of peeps, alarms and tornadoes all around" 1) receiving a text from my mother tells me that she wants to tell me that I am "allowed" to text her again. 2) I thought given the "FWD, and the dramatic language and the "peeps" that perhaps, this was a forward of a message from my 12yr daughter that was sent to her, not a 60yr old woman writing. My wife and I talked, and we made a simple response - "If that is from my daughter, I'm sure she is fine". Her response "This is your PARENTS, it was us, a scary ordeal. Tell <daughter> we love her" After so long of mot speaking, she seems to have decided to just "pretend like everything is OK". For me it is NOT ok to pretend. If she/they were normal people I would want acknowledgment, but with them, I know I cant get that. I cant just let them back in like that - however, that is her arrogant way. Trash someone, act like a royal #$%, ignore them, abuse them, and then one day the clouds clear for her/them and shwoop-de-woop, pretend its all fine.


We are going away for a couple of weeks to the US southwest beginning next weekend. As a last interesting nugget, this morning my wife called me after she got to work. My NM had sent her a message, also, which said the following: "We wish you a wonderful trip with <me> and the children. It should be a trip of a life time. Make alot of memories and enjoy. Hope to see you all, when you come back home."

We have not seen one another since the beginning of March, and have not actually spoken since then, either. Only her and his nastygram emails, texts, voicemails, etc.

Again just like nothing ever happened. I dont know what/how to process this. All roads lead to the same place. I've a feeling that my old man is still in the mode he has been in and would be unwilling to be in the same room with us let alone talk. She is doing this secretly, if I know her. Trying hard. Also, her birthday is Jul 4th, and she is likely very afraid that I will not acknowledge it, as I did not fathers day with my father.  "Get ready, worship me again, my birthday is coming"

[swimmer]

Sfalken-  I just read your 1st, 2nd and 3rd entries for this thread.  I can so relate to this!!  I'm not an only child, but feel similar with the old childhood family friends unknowingly pass toxic "messages" to me.  I'm NC with my mom, stepdad and brother for the past 1+years.  My stepdad and brother are nfeeders to my NM and are constantly trying to "pawn" her off on me by trying to reel me in again.

Anyways.... My mind is jumbled now just thinking about it, so I totally understand your overwhelmed state you talked about when you started the thread.  The situation is soooo similar, sorry I could not offer more story related validation.  It's mindnumbing to think about it sometimes.

[sfalken]

I came home today to my wife holding a handful of cards addressed to each of us, from my mother. they were in the mail.

she's made her mind up to pretend its all better. and to shower us with emails, texts, cards, and notes. trouble is, I'm tired.