The Gospel of Mel Gibson: David Brooks' NY Times Op-Ed

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi everybody,

David Brooks' op-ed piece in today's NY times is worth a read:  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/16/opinion/16brooks.html?_r=1&ref=opinion


Best,

Richard

[Sealynx]

Great article. As he points out, the upcoming generation also has some very elevated ideas about the importance of self.

My students used to email asking me to suggest a study approach to my material and offering to use any advice I could give to improve their grade. Increasingly, I am getting emails like a recent message that said, "I have maxed out on studying and I always get "A's" and "B's" in my classes.  I don't understand why my grade in you class is so low. Please explain."
S

[sKePTiKal]

LOL! I loved the very last line. It's so true: Ns think they're so all-powerful that it's inconceivable to them that their victims have any smarts... resources... or volition... at all.

And they work very, very hard to convince us that this could be true. Wot a crock!

[sunblue]

Excellent piece and right on target.  I was a bit surprised to see it coming from David Brooks.

I'm wondering what Dr. G and others reading the piece think of his assertion that recent research refutes the commonly-held premise that Narcissists feel unworthy deep down which is masked by the traditional N traits?  Everything I've read about the cause of true N speaks to this issue of being unworthy and unloved, something which was passed down to them likely by an N parent.

If, indeed, this is not true and that the N was not caused by a deep feeling of unworthiness (passed on by an Nparent), then to what can we attribute deep narcissism?  After all, the kind of behavior currently exhibited by the likes of Mel Gibson and those Ns we know in our lives, doesn't just emerge out of the womb, right? 

If it's not due to a deep-seated sense of unworthiness, and the self-love that is exhibited in extremes by the N is just that, from where is that exaggerated self-love bred?

Just wondering if the research Brooks alluded to is actually refuting the original premise..and if it is valid in today's medical field...

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi Sunblue,

I don’t know the research that Brooks is referring to.  However,  a few points to consider:

The narcissistic people I have known have been particularly sensitive to criticism, slights, etc.  This would suggest that their sense of self is fragile.

It is likely that a significant portion (50%) of the propensity to develop full blown NPD is genetic.  50% is the magic number in many personality disorders, schizophrenia, and other "mental disorders".   Whether or not the person then develops NPD will depend on a number of different factors in their environment (often argued about).  A narcissistic parent obviously doesn’t help!

Narcissism exists on a spectrum:  from a lack of narcissism (often in depressed people), to healthy narcissism, to pathological narcissism.  Self-deception theory (essentially, if you can fool yourself into believing your are better at something than you really are—then you have a better chance of fooling someone else) suggests that narcissism to some extent should be built into the human race.  Healthy narcissism certainly helps people get through hard times, perhaps through soothing distortion.

I'm not sure if this helps, but I thought I would throw it in...

Best,

Richard

[teartracks]

Hi Dr. G.,

Healthy narcissism certainly helps people get through hard times, perhaps through soothing distortion.

What does the term 'soothing distortion' mean?

tt

[mudpuppy]

The narcissistic people I have known have been particularly sensitive to criticism, slights, etc.  This would suggest that their sense of self is fragile.

I would be amazed if narcissists had a high opinion of themselves, as Brooks says.
They may have a too high or even accurate opinion of their own particular or even general abilities but I don't believe that translates into any sense of self worth. From what I've seen they irrationally view themselves as worthless or defective at some very fundamental level and in a way that is largely a mystery to non narcissists.

mud

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi teartracks,

A study was done some years ago (I can’t remember who did it) where the experimenters had both normal and depressed people play a computer game where the object was to destroy as many “aliens” as they could in a given time.  After the game was over they asked each person how many “aliens” they had destroyed.  You can probably guess the results:  the normal people (on average) vastly inflated the number of “aliens” they had destroyed, while the depressed people (on average) were accurate within 5 or 10 percent.  This is one example of a “soothing distortion”.  The line in Prairie Home Companion where all the children in Lake Wobegon are “above average” is another. 

Of course, one of the ways that many depressed people distort or “get it wrong”  is their thinking that they are unimportant to other people.

One of the books that explores the “soothing distortion”  phenomenon is A Mind of its Own:  How Your Brain Distorts and Deceives by Cordelia Fine

http://astore.amazon.com/richardgrossman/detail/0393062139

Richard

[Meh]

.......You can probably guess the results:  the normal people (on average) vastly inflated the number of “aliens” they had destroyed, while the depressed people (on average) were accurate within 5 or 10 percent.  This is one example of a “soothing distortion”........
Richard

During the time when I was seeing a therapist, the book "Feeling Good" and its concepts (depression is from cognitive distortions) seemed to be quite popular. I think most depressed people are taught to believe that they have too many negative ideas/ thought distortions and that is the cause of their illness. The book "Feeling Good" seems to suggest to me, that normal people think clearly and depressed people do not think clearly.
I tried the exercises in the "Feeling Good" book, but the exercises seemed unnatural and somehow "off" to me and then I got frustrated and threw the book away.

I guess the above video game data seems to say something different about depressed people. That's very interesting. Makes me feel a little bit better about being a "depressive".

[sKePTiKal]

The idea of "soothing distortions" is interesting. I guess perception habits (glass half full/empty) and creative imagination come into the process too - along with FOO patterns, attachment style, etc.

And I wonder if this is learned - or innate? Or both?
I wonder if there is a functional purpose for this phenomenon?
And when does a healthy, soothing distortion (if that's what it is) become self-deception or delusion?

Guess I need to read the book!