Sanity

[Hopalong]

(Now Mud, honey...remember, you LIKE me...deeeep breath...)

I had an amazing time at the Rally to Restore Sanity!

Except for the packed-into-an-intersection-like-sardines part. For a while we literally could not move and that was borderline scary. EXCEPT. All the people there were so nice and well behaved and good humored and tolerant and helpful. We inched our way out and made it to the Hard Rock Cafe and sat next to some nice, friendly Canadian journalists, blogging away. And had beers with some folks who were running in the Marine Marathon yesterday.

I couldn't see nor hear a thing so for my friend and I, the experience was of a massive NON-angry crowd with wit and a sense of joy and relief at being together. And it was a magnificent day in DC....cool but sunny, clear, perfect. A parade of costumes and great signs (SO few of them snarky, most of them just witty). Political leanings obvious but people really quite serious about NOT vilifying. An atmosphere of joy and relief and friendship.

It made up for me not going to Woodstock. It felt joyful. It was amazing to meet people from all over the country who'd felt such a yearning for a gathering about NON-extremes that they did the extreme thing of flying or driving long distances to be there.

Entertainment? Feh.  I had to watch it all later, and it was fun--but I'm a huge Stewart-Colbert fan. I liked the dueling trains songs (points taken about Yusef's confused history, but I guess the wish for a Muslim singing about peace won the choice for making a broad point...which most people there seemed to get). Ozzie was silly, O-Jays were great, Tony Bennett awesome. Kareem Abdul-Jabaar is very very tall and very very nice. Even Colbert couldn't generalize about Muslims any more. (Your reason is interfering with my fear, he said, or something like that...)

I loved the dueling-podiums stuff, Colbert's over the top pardodies of irrational fears (You are afraid of the bees! I've released the bees! No? Well now I've covered the bees with peanut butter!) just tickle me.

For me though even though we couldn't get close it was utterly worth it to add to the body count which was getting close to a quarter million. I thought Stewart's speech at the end was spot on. "You go, then I go. We work together every day."

For me, a lifetime memory. A day full of delight. And even some hope.

xo
Hops

[mudpuppy]

  Glad you enjoyed yourself, Hops.
  What I object to are people like Colbert and Stewart using mocking irony to paint themselves as reasonable middle of the road people and inplying anyone who disagrees is insane.
  They put up pictures of Glenn Beck and Keith Olberman as representing presumably the insane side of things. Stewart and Colbert's politics are nearly indistinguishable from Olberman's but they pretend otherwise as part of their schtick.
Personally I far prefer the serious, in your face honesty of somebody like Olberman to the smarmy condescending schtick of the Comedy Central clowns. Olberman has to defend what he says and if he wins the argument he changes minds if he loses he doesn't. If the clowns ideas are challenged they just say "hey we're just kidding around here, where's your sense of humor". That's the opposite of civility; it's a childish method to make your point and avoid having to answer arguments against your point.
  It's a method of subtly saying your opponents are insane or stupid without having to defend such a repulsive charge. That happens to be a method Ns constantly use and has been used on most of us here I'd imagine. Now, if you're in the group that's saying everyone else is crazy then it seems like a nice day out in the fall weather. For those being called crazy and looking in, things appear somewhat differently.
  And the only thing confused about Mr. Yusef's history are the lies he now tells about it. He now claims he was a new convert when he said those things about Rushdie, but ten years later he was still confirming them and telling people he's for the stoning to death of women for adultery. That's the guy singing about peace. What's really is ironic is that Stewart can't see the irony in using a guy who supports sharia to explain to us that Islam is harmless.
  I don't mind people with differing political views, I enjoy discussing them. What I mind is the condescending schtick that a lightweight like Stewart or Colbert uses to hide behind to avoid serious debate. It's fundamentally dishonest and corrosive to the exchange of ideas and disrespectful to other viewpoints. I and most other people usually have the decency to believe that people who disagree with us are wrong, not stupid or insane. Stewart and Colbert lack that decency and like so many comedians (and Ns) I suspect that lack is rooted in their own insecurity and it's projected onto others.

mud

[Hopalong]

Hi Mud,
I won't go overtly political here either, but I can offer some thoughts about people (how I am viewing them), fwiw.

I do not know what's in Yusuf's head. So I read the Wikipedia entry on him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Stevens

There seem to be accusations, defenses, inconsistencies in behavior in his own life and in U.S. response to him.
To me, he sounds confused and immature in ways. I personally wouldn't have ended a New Agey spiritual search where he ended his, but I don't think it's my place to judge his soul. I don't see him defending sharia, but admit I didn't read every shred.

For me, his iconic song Peace Train was always moving, and I thought it suited the rally in many ways. I'd rather judge him on his strengths, which appear to be, on balance, a principled life that includes an enormous amount of charity.

As to Colbert, I have admiration for him. I find him extremely funny. He is a devout Catholic and that is what informed his testimony before Congress (which many stern folks found inappropriate). I loved it. I was moved by learning that the reason he became a comedian was that when he was 10, his father and 2 brothers were killed in a plane crash. He began to try to be funny in an attempt to get his shattered mother to smile. What I experience (which is all any of us can testify to, rather than what is inside another's heart)... is that he is kind. He believes in the Golden Rule. He has an over-the-top comic persona that may not be to everyone's taste. For me, personally, it's brilliant. (His address to the National Press Club was one of the boldest and most incisive things I've ever seen.)

But humor is so deeply personal. I find that fascinating in itself. I love thinking about what strikes me--or anyone else--as ridiculous, or produces deep laughter. I mean, if something catches me off guard and I emit a true belly laugh...my belief is there's something deep going on there.

I think there are keys to our souls in our laughter.

I can see how Jon Stewart could be viewed as condescending. I take his lugubriousness with a grain of salt, and am sure he's irritating to those who've been in charge of the media tone for so long (and in my view also, have abdicated their obligation to research and inform, rather than pot-stir). But I'm grateful to hear him express what he thinks. I agree with him.

If he's too smug, life will bring him comeuppance. I think he organized a smart and joyful thing, but that's my take, and how it felt to me.

I don't think either Stewart or Colbert are afraid of serious debate. I think they most likely are being professional comedians. Stewart steps out of it, as does Colbert, when they're strongly enough moved, I think. It's okay with me.

Satirists and comedians have often served as holy fools in front of the powerful. (Some holier than others!)

You and I will likely always disagree on these things. That doesn't diminish my respect and fondness for you a whit.

Hops

[lighter]

As far as "entertainment" and "delivery systems......."

I find the Left's irony more appealing than the Right's all knowing admonishments that everyone who doesn't believe like them is stupid, and sure to cause the end of the free world in our children's lifetime.

Not that I tune into either on a regular basis.

I don't.

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

LOL... while I was watching on TV, I kept thinking - gee, I wonder if Hops went?? I'm glad to hear it was good day for you.

Mud:

The challenges of course are determining the difference and when there really is something to fear the right response to it and how to get other people to see it.

I agree with what you said about fear, 100%. I have a lot of thoughts and feelings and opinions on this, but I still fear talking about it because of being unfairly lumped into the category of "one of those people" - labelled, in other words. And then discounted & dismissed as one of the lunatic fringe. And I'm not, really. Ideologically, politically... I don't fit neatly into one category or another. I'm passionate about things that matter to me - and some of those things are considered "far left"... and some "far right"... and lot more of those things simply aren't even important to any of the organized, vocal political groups. Those things are more the province of the bureaucracy and people writing "regulations"... "rules", in other words that in practice, I find are unequally enforced. Hence, the investigations and lawsuits and scandal and.........

But it's my passion about my opinions - how I see the right/wrong of things - that seems to get in my way and also make me an easy target for the "lunatic" label. I'm passionate because I care about these things. Writing is a somewhat better way for me to communicate - but not always and especially not lately; not on these topics. I have had my head handed to me, by friends even, for even bringing up some of my ideas in a timid, non-threatening fashion. And it's this environment - and the ease with which people seem ready to rationalize and justify their very real silencing of any other opinions except those which mirror their own - that have made me (and I'd suspect quite a few others) voiceless in this arena.

I still don't know "what to do about it" - either personally or on a larger scale. For me, it was a relief to at least laugh about it and not really deal with it head-on through the complexity, for a few minutes. I do have some ideas... but they'll have to wait for another time. I need to go pick out some new faces to put in positions of representing me - handing them a certain amount of power over me, blindly trusting (because I don't get to check their references other than what's been published) that they'll do a better job - with absolutely no way to hold them accountable, except to roll the dice again and pick another new face when their seat comes up for election again.

Sigh.

[ann3]

  And the only thing confused about Mr. Yusef's history are the lies he now tells about it. He now claims he was a new convert when he said those things about Rushdie, but ten years later he was still confirming them and telling people he's for the stoning to death of women for adultery. That's the guy singing about peace. What's really is ironic is that Stewart can't see the irony in using a guy who supports sharia to explain to us that Islam is harmless.
  I don't mind people with differing political views, I enjoy discussing them. What I mind is the condescending schtick that a lightweight like Stewart or Colbert uses to hide behind to avoid serious debate. It's fundamentally dishonest and corrosive to the exchange of ideas and disrespectful to other viewpoints. I and most other people usually have the decency to believe that people who disagree with us are wrong, not stupid or insane. Stewart and Colbert lack that decency and like so many comedians (and Ns) I suspect that lack is rooted in their own insecurity and it's projected onto others.

mud

Excellent points, mud.  Oh, the irony & hypocrisy of Stewart & Colbert! 

[mudpuppy]

He is a devout Catholic.....

Well, so was Torquemada so I'm not sure where that gets us.

You and I will likely always disagree on these things. That doesn't diminish my respect and fondness for you a whit.

Likewise.

I find the Left's irony more appealing than the Right's all knowing admonishments that everyone who doesn't believe like them is stupid, and sure to cause the end of the free world in our children's lifetime.

  You mean like the idea that more CO2 in the atmosphere is going to destroy the earth by the end of this century and anyone who questions the lazy science behind the assumptions or is skeptical of the catastrophism is an ignorant dolt, equivalent to a holocaust denier and should be prosecuted for such thoughts? All those stances have been taken by prominent and mainstream global warming alarmists which is almost wholly the domain of the left.
  The irony masks precisely the same notion on the left that anyone who doesn't believe like them is stupid and is dangerous to the free world. That's why I prefer an Olberman who is honest about it to a Stewart who isn't.

Excellent points, mud.  Oh, the irony & hypocrisy of Stewart & Colbert!

I take it this is more irony. As I said, implying those who disagree with you are insane probably looks quite reasonable to those doing the implying, but somewhat less so from outside the group looking in.

mud

[ann3]

"I take it this is more irony."
Why? 

I like Rich Lowry's take on Stewart entitled "Keep Smug Alive":

"Stewart lectures about the tone of our politics and our media as if he’s Charlie Rose or George Will. Of course, he’s neither. He’s the host of a comedy show that relies on mockery and japery to make its points, and depends on the conceit that the other side is a collection of reprobates and idiots."

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/251833/keep-smug-alive-rich-lowry

[mudpuppy]

I'm still not quite sure if you're pulling my leg or not ann, but I can't say I disagree with Lowry's take.

mud

[JustKathy]

I'm glad you a good time at the Rally, Hops. I would have gone myself if I wasn't on the West coast. I know it's something I would have enjoyed. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Kathy

[ann3]

mud,
stop with the paranoia.  I mean what I say.

Hops,
I too am glad you had a good time.  I do enjoy Stewart, but, IMO, sometimes he veers too far away from comedy/satire & becomes a shill.  For example, I would have respected him more if he had made some funny quip about Cat Stevens supporting the Rushdie fatwa & the stoning to death of women.  I mean, it is ironic that the dude who sings "Peace Train" (a song I love) also supports that fatwa & death by stoning {& I don't mean the stuff one can smoke! lol}

Death by stoning is still in the news this week:  "An Iranian woman sentenced to death by stoning for adultery has not yet been executed, says French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner."  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11681837

[mudpuppy]

stop with the paranoia

I told everyone Stewart and Colbert were dangerous. My brains have been so addled by pop culture irony I don't know if I'm coming or going.
(Although in my defense, technically I'm not sure not knowing whether someone is pulling your leg qualifies as paranoia. I think it has to be more along the lines of thinking aliens are trying to plant a transceiver in your noggin or the government and Big Oil want to kill you because you spotted the 500 mile per gallon car they have hidden away in area 51.)

For example, I would have respected him more if he had made some funny quip about Cat Stevens supporting the Rushdie fatwa & the stoning to death of women.  

Salman Rushdie a couple of days ago:
                        I spoke to Jon Stewart about Yusuf Islam’s appearance. He said he was sorry it upset me,
                         but really, it was plain that he was fine with it. Depressing.


mud

[ann3]

Hey mud,
it's cool.  I understand.

Thanks for the Rushdie update.  Sad to say, I'm not surprised.  Like I said:  irony & hypocrisy.

It's like what George Carlin said:  When fascism comes to America, it will be smiley-smiley.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Fascism

I apologize to you, Hopalong.  This is your thread & I do not seek to offend you. 

[mudpuppy]

I apologize to you, Hopalong.  This is your thread & I do not seek to offend you.

Not trying to answer for her but I've never known Hops to be offended by anyone acting in good faith and good humor.

mud

[Hopalong]

No worries, anybody!

A thread isn't "mine" for me -- I like a wide-open door. Everybody welcome.

Ain't taking any disagreements personally...glad you're all talking.

(Just ran out of things to add to it -- but all these perspectives are interesting.)

xo
Hops