Denial - fantasy as reality

[Guest]

The most difficult thing to live through for me is having to pretend that someone else's denial, their fantasy world, their view of how things are, is *reality*. To agree with them, to 'go with' their conversations about what they will be doing in the future, a future that is definitely not real, to go with them in their world when it is painful to have real reality in my face, and all the while, trying to ignore it, in order to agree with them, to be compassionate, to know that this is what they want, that this is their survival mechanism. To lie, pretend and talk about such things as dreams are made of. That is what is difficult. BUT
without this board, i would be incapable of doing this without feeling drowning emotions. I don't become overwhelmed, although it is stressful and painful. It is like dealing with insanity. With delusion. BUT
it is not my delusion and I'm the adult.
Kindness doesn't cost. And swearing alleviates the worst of frustrations, back in my own world where i can be real.
Fascinating stuff. Interesting things too, emotions.
I was raised to be incredibly responsible. One of the kindest things said to me over the last year was "it's not your responsibility", which was, while factually true, something I needed to hear. Like being wrapped in a blanket.

Sometimes the truth will not set you free. I don't know, but that's how it seems right now. Denial is stronger than truth? Yes I think so, every time. That's how we 'work' after all. You can't drop your denial unless you want to  - how contradictory is that?

[Twoapenny]

Hi Guest,

I've often struggled with the same thing.  My parents could both stand in front of a lorry and insist it isn't there.  My sister, when confronted with written proof of something, still said it wasn't true - even when it was on a desk in front of her, in black and white.  I think denial, when you're a child, is something that protects you.  I guess if you're not able to let go of it and accept what's real as you get older, then it starts to cause problems for other people.  But I suppose it carries on protecting and maybe it gets harder to let that go as you get older?

I've often wondered how my mum has managed to live in her world of fantasy for so long when it is so obvious to people around her that nine tenths of her life is make believe.  Realising it's not your responsibility to keep that world alive is a pretty big deal, I think, although still difficult to break those old bonds and habits.

[Guest]

Thanks Twopenny for your reply. My mother was like that too! Sheesh.

In this case though, I know it's not my responsibility to keep that world alive, but for compassionate reasons, it is my choice to keep it alive.

A bit like interacting with dementia sufferers. You don't tell them the stark truth every time they seem to have forgotten; instead you enter their world and give them appropriate answers. Where is their long-dead husband? Gone to get a newspaper - that sort of thing. Second nature to me.

[JustKathy]

I've often wondered how my mum has managed to live in her world of fantasy for so long when it is so obvious to people around her that nine tenths of her life is make believe.

I wonder about this too. I wonder if my NM thinks that I'm so gullible that she can convince me that her reality, is in fact, real. Or, has she convinced herself that it IS real?

Perfect example, is a blowout I had with her right before going NC, in which I let her have it for putting my brother on a pedestal while denying me the most basic of needs. She wrote me a letter in which she said, "Why do you hurt me with these accusations? I loved all three of my children equally, and [brother] was NEVER given anything that you didn't also get." Did she forget about his private schooling, ten years of college tuition, free apartments, three cars, and when he married, a free house? Does she really think that I've forgotten that? Does she think that she can convince me that it never happened? Or does she, in her mentally ill mind, really believe that the GC never received special treatment?

Then there's her fantasy world of knowing famous people, of being a police officer (she volunteers at the station), of being a registered nurse (she took a few classes to be a medical assistant and quit), of having been a famous dancer with the Royal Ballet (she took ballet classes in high school) - does she really believe all that to be true, or is she putting on a very good act. I just can't tell.

[Twoapenny]

Kathy, I think that they genuinely believe it.  I have a friend who has schizophrenia, and at times she suffers from delusions.  She sees things that aren't there and one time believed that she had huge wings on her back (she was walking around like she was bent over because, she said, her wings were too heavy).  When she's stable, she looks back and she knows that these things she believed, were, in fact, not real.  But at the time it's a reality for her.

I think, with my mum anyway, that she genuinely believes in her version of reality.  She sounds a lot like your mum - if you listen to her, we had this picture perfect childhood, we were all treated impeccably, nothing bad ever happened and then lo and behold, suddenly I was mentally ill and making up all these lies about her.

When I look back, I can see my mum had me believing things about myself that weren't true.  I truly believed that I was fat, ugly, disgusting, gross, unloveable, stupid, clumsy, unlikeable and a whole host of other things.  None of those were true - I can see that now, even though I still struggle not to believe it.  So I wonder if they can convince themselves they're perfect and that everything about them is?  And genuinely believe it - which means it's easier to make others believe it because to them, they're not lying?  I find it kind of hard to get my head around it.

Guest, I think you're right - if you're able to step in and out of that world without getting caught in the wrong place, you're doing a grand job.  For me, it was all too sticky - I had to get out and straighten my head out.  You sound like you're handling it really well.

[Guest]

Thanks Twopenny, I think I did go into that world well. It was stressful and sad; now just sad. I also agree with you about the others believing their own reality. In another case I refused to comply with that reality and am therefore probably a threat to that person. I don't know, I'm NC, but i would imagine I might be a threat to their reality. I have no problem with that.

I was reading RD Laing the other day (Divided Self, schizophrenia etc) and was struck by the lie detector reference - when asked under a lie detector if he was Napoleon, he said "no": the lie detector said that he was lying.

[JustKathy]

She sounds a lot like your mum - if you listen to her, we had this picture perfect childhood, we were all treated impeccably, nothing bad ever happened and then lo and behold, suddenly I was mentally ill and making up all these lies about her.

Exactly what my NM did. When I stood up and said that I wasn't going to take it anymore, and called her on her favoritism of the GC, she immediately started a smear campaign against me in which she told everyone that I had "turned on her." She was a perfect, doting mother, and I was a problem child with mental problems.

I don't know, I'm NC, but i would imagine I might be a threat to their reality.

I think that's an excellent point. We know the truth, and we ARE a threat to their reality. Even being NC, they don't know what we might be telling other people. I've received several letters from my mother where she says, "One day you will realize that I'm not the evil person you told everyone I was." Well, I never told anyone outside of my therapist's office and this board, so I must be considered a threat.

[Guest]

Yes Kathy, I can easily imagine my NCN saying the same thing to me....in their head, and to others. I'm sure I'm the one completely at fault in their head - but, and it's a big but - I have possession of facts, and knowledge of their way of thinking which could be construed as a real threat, in their head. That's of course imagining that they even think about me in any way - which is a stretch of imagination. I also imagine that for a (small?) proportion of time they work hard to not think about me and my knowledge. On the other hand, they could be so sure of their reality that I'm no more than a gnat buzzed off into the distance. Well at least I know what is real. And like you, I haven't done anything to blow their cover yet. I've been busy.

The problem with mental problems is the people who seriously believe that they don't have any whatsoever.

[JustKathy]

That's of course imagining that they even think about me in any way - which is a stretch of imagination.

Oh, I'm quite sure they think about you. My NM absolutely obsesses over it. She's consumed with rage over having lost control over me. Not only has she lost her power over me, but it makes her look bad when she holds her little Hallmark Christmas and Thanksgiving gatherings. It's blowing her image of being a perfect mother with a perfect family, so she has to work overtime to smear me so that everyone thinks I'm at fault. She also continues to send letters and emails in an attempt to push my buttons. I don't think that Ns are capable of EVER letting it go. I doubt very much that your M has dismissed you like a gnat. More likely, you tower over her like Godzilla. A child that learns the truth and stands up for themselves is a HUGE problem for the N. For my NM, the anger she has over my going NC is all-consuming.

[Guest]

Thanks Kathy, you're probably correct - more correct than I can imagine I bet. I'll give this more thought in good time. In fact I'll probably think about it in the back of my mind for a few days. I definitely am a child that has learnt the truth. In many ways. I've learned the reciprocal grace of compassion recently too. It helps, for other people. I don't have too much compassion for reptiles; but not everyone is one, thank goodness.