Is there a difference between being a narcissist and having NPD?

[JustKathy]

Every time an unwanted letter comes, write on the envelope: Refused.

I've thought of doing that, but the reason I don't is that it will give her ammunition to use against me. She'd show it to all of my relatives, put on the crocodile tears, and cry to everyone, "I sent Kathy this beautiful birthday card that I picked out myself, and she ripped my heart out by sending it back. Why is she so mean to her mother? Waaaaaaaaaa . . ." I'm sure you can picture the Oscar-winning performance.

What my T suggested (and what I've been doing), is having my husband open them and pre-screen them. If they're bad, they go in a box to read later (or not). But I don't want to give her anything that can be used against me. In fact, one year she sent one of her boxes of unwanted Christmas gifts, and actually taunted us to send them back, so I know she wants that. She'll use it as a weapon in her smear campaign. I'm not going to give her the satisfaction.

Kathy

[Twoapenny]

Hi Kathy,

I've been NC now for four years and they still drive by my house and send stuff to my boy.  It doesn't bother me like it used to.  To be honest I get where I feel sorry for my mum now - her life must be so empty and bitter.  One thing I found that did help a bit was I used to give myself a little treat anytime something happened - buy myself something or go out or do something nice with my boy.  One day was really funny, I saw a dress I liked and found myself hoping she'd write so I'd have an excuse to go and buy it!

I've had a couple of bits this year - a couple of emails, a package on the doorstep and a couple of things other people have sent me to her address that she's forwarded on.  It would obviously be much easier for her to give those people my address, but then she loses the control and she can't risk them hearing the truth from me - how would that be?  But you're right, they don't just give up and go away.  My sister always said to me that the thing that irritates them most is no reaction at all - nothing that they can hold on to.  For a long time I threw things away without opening them.  Now I find I can open it, read it, bin it and forget all about it.  So I'm hoping that you can get there, too.  (((((((((Kathy)))))))))))))))))

[Hopalong]

Dang.

Yes, I can imagine it.

I don't know what the perfect solution is but you're doing the best you can.

I find the unwanted mail (like email) a really triggering notion. Feels like such an invasion...

I remember feeling near-panic over a registered letter from my socioNbro during our legal battle. I was frozen on the doorstep in fear of the mailman's trying to hand it to me. Took me some time but I told the mailman I thought there would be some trickery or "gotcha" involved because of a legal situation and I didn't know what to do. He was a kindly older man and told me, "Why don't you think about it and I'll come back in a few hours..." Gave me time to call my attorney, who agreed with me that he didn't trust my brother either, and there was no reason I had to accept an unwanted communication outside of the legal process, so I wrote "Refused" and snuck a tiny note beneath the return address: "Please convey to Mr. X--(my attorney)" while the kindly mailman looked the other way.

I'll never forget the feelings it engendered. Later, it occurred to me his use of the postal service was another subtle example of "bullying by proxy". My bro had done everything he could to use slander, authorities, neighbors, anybody he could get to listen to his conspiracy stuff...to intimidate me. Fortunately it did not work and about six months after that letter attempt, he did sign a settlement. (But when we were settling the property, which I shipped to him...the original plan had been for him to come collect it all. Finding out he would not find me at home, but teams of two adults who were going to be present to protect my interests...he chickened out. He told his attorney (who told mine): "If I have to come there someone will wind up having to call the police." Bluster and bullying to the end of it.

I'll never forget that realization. I DID NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT HIS LETTER! I understand that wouldn't fit your situation though. I do think you deserve the serenity of no "mailbox attacks".

Anyway, forgive the digression all about meeeeeeeeeeee.

I think the topic of how Ns and bullies use mail and email is a big one, though.

Thank you for sharing this painful struggle to defend your "shield" -- your serenity -- against this.

hugs,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

And we can decide to refuse a lot more than unwanted mail or email or phone calls...

it was a good day, when I could take one of my mom's regular monologue calls - and it didn't affect me at all. Since it's all about her anyway - why should I care or be upset? That is who she is and I reckon that if I am in the process of defining myself sans her projections, expectations and input... I can also allow her to be who she is. Doesn't mean I have to like her or always drop everything for her, though.

I don't allow her that much power over me or how I feel, as much as I am able. It's something I practice - and someday hope to master. It helps to "consider the source", you know?

[JustKathy]

This may sound odd, but I've actually found NM's letters to be very validating. They're pages of rants, every word textbook NPD. It's written proof that she's mentally ill, right there in her own handwriting. Anyone who reads her letters can see that I 'm not the crazy one. You can actually pick out every one of the known N traits in just one letter . . . gaslighting, delusions of grandeur, triangulation . . . it's all there. I've taken several of them to my psychiatrist, and she has kept copies of them to study, often picking out subtle things that I missed. She concluded from one of the letters that NM was also a sociopath as well as an N. (Going off on a tangent here, but a sociopath has many of the same characteristics of an N http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html).

I'd almost say that it's empowering to have these letters in my possession. Who knows, one day I might write a book, or pass them on to a psychiatric journal, or make them available to a psych major working on a thesis. They're my letters and I can do what I want with them.

[sKePTiKal]

doesn't sound odd at all Kathy! I wish I had something tangible like that, as proof. Evidence that I'm not exaggerating, not being "overly sensitive", that it's all a misunderstanding because of different perspectives...

if only there were a court of justice, where letters like that could be admitted into court and at least a resolution passed down:

"Be it known to all men (and women) that after great study and deliberation, a jury of her peers and this court deem the parent in question to be morally corrupt, emotionally ill, and a danger to mankind..."  At the very least. There is no way reparations or damages could be levied, though. You can't get blood from a stone... and the currency of those kinds of damages (love and remorse) doesn't even register in a sick person's reality at all.

[Twoapenny]

I had a big fire one day and burnt letters and photos, and cleared out loads of stuff she gave me and took it to the charity shop.  It was very cathartic.  I kept one vase because I actually did really like it and I thought it could be a symbol of the one time she put some thought into something she bought.  About a week later I found out about an accusation she'd made against me about three years earlier.  She'd bought me the vase later that month.  At first I thought perhaps she'd felt bad about what she'd done - but then I wondered if she did just so she'd look good to other people and they wouldn't suspect her accusations were false.  Oddly enough, the same afternoon the cat knocked it off the mantlepiece and it smashed.  I took that as a sign

[JustKathy]

Oddly enough, the same afternoon the cat knocked it off the mantlepiece and it smashed.  I took that as a sign

LOL. Yep, I'd say that was a sign!

[Hopalong]

Easy for me to say, since my mother has died, and the Nbro is out of my life forever...

...but wouldn't it be wonderful to get to the place where you know your own truth, you feel no defensiveness about whatever boundaries you need to set to show reverence for the gift of your life, you automatically protect your serenity in any way you need to without apology or hesitation....

and never needed to hoard evidence because you don't need to prove anything to anyone else or have their approval, ever?

(I ain't completely there either. But it felt good to write....)

xo
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Aw, Hops, I think I'm going to print that out and stick it on my wall as a reminder of my ultimate goal   That could be a mantra for anyone who's ever been made to believe that they don't count

I would love to get to that place, and I am on my way but I still have a long way to go.  I was talking to my T last week, and explaining that I have a constant three way conversation in my head.  I have my thought about what I'm actually doing at the time, my mother's negative commentary running alongside it pointing out how I'm doing it all wrong (or making comments about how snobby I am because I'm getting it all right) and then my 'new' voice, which is correcting the negative one and reassuring the 'in the moment' one.  It's like being a mental ventriloquist and soooooo tiring!  So I would love to get to a place where the only voice in my head is the one saying "Wow, that sunset is beautiful" and then being able to just accept and enjoy that moment without anything else getting in my way.

Thank you, Hops ((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))

[sKePTiKal]

So I would love to get to a place where the only voice in my head is the one saying "Wow, that sunset is beautiful" and then being able to just accept and enjoy that moment without anything else getting in my way.

That's it; I think that's what we all want! And how each of us gets to that place is different; maybe even happens without us noticing it - until after the fact and "we don't do that anymore". No secret recipe or discipline or method or how-to booklet....

One thing I think contributed to my getting another inch or two closer to that, is starting to be grateful for each & every miniscule little bit of progress I make - even if it's not permanent! When I compare "me-today" with me before I started dealing with all this... well, yeah it seems like it took a lot of time and there were additional life-changes that sort of pushed me along into new things... but bottom line, I'm way better off than I was... less miserable, reactionary, trigger-able, less of a time bomb ready to go off on someone else - or blow my own self up.

Every little bit of that is a blessing and something I'm thankful for. Even the stuff I still struggle with, I can imagine myself being thankful for the opportunity to work on it (myself)...  for me, this was one change that seemed to spread subtle change through me and how I perceived the world & events & people in it. And now, I can stand and watch the full moon rise over the ocean and when someone asks what I'm doing - just say "looking - isn't it pretty?" (and not feeling like a twit, or self-conscious or out of place or like some borderline wacko...)

[Twoapenny]

I agree completely, Phoenix.  I've still got a lot of work to do but I am so different to how I was ten years ago, and so grateful for that.  I feel that there is a light at the end of the tunnel - even if it is dim and very far away at times!

[JustKathy]

and never needed to hoard evidence because you don't need to prove anything to anyone else or have their approval, ever?

I hope I can get to that place one day. Part of my hoarding evidence is that, I think, somewhere in the back of my mind, I feel like one day I'll have the chance to prove to some of my favorite aunts and uncles that NM really did abuse me, and that it wasn't my fault, and that everything will be good again. Then I have to slap myself and say "Hey, wake up. It's never going to happen." As much as I love some of my aunts, well, where were they when they sensed (and I KNOW they sensed) that things were NOT right with NM? Some of these relatives stood idly by, knowing that I was being tormented, and I'm pretty sure that some of them will go to their graves not knowing the whole truth, because they don't WANT to know the truth. And yet, I still feel this need, and this hope, that one day I can prove that NM was wrong, and win their approval, and . . . why? Do they even care?

I've still got a lot of work to do but I am so different to how I was ten years ago, and so grateful for that.

I do feel that I'm a much different person now than I was ten years ago. Things still get to me, and still hurt me very badly, but I'm at a stage where I DO get over it with time. Ten years ago I felt pity for my Co-F, and even though I was angry at him for the hurt he caused me, I would cave in and call him on holidays, or visit, or whatever, because I felt so sorry for him being "brainwashed" by NM. Now when he calls, and I don't answer, I still feel bad, and I still hurt, but . . . I DON'T ANSWER. I've reached the point where I can listen to him ramble into the answering machine, and instead of feeling pity, I feel very justified in blowing him off. I'm now okay with letting him have a birthday or a holiday without getting to talk to his daughter. He called today to wish us a Happy Thanksgiving, and ended the message with "It sure would be nice if you'd talk to your parents every now and then." Well, guess what Dad? It sure would be nice if you hadn't disinherited your daughter out of spite, and it sure would be nice if you'd apologize for using your belt on her because your wife said to. I don't know if I'll ever reach a place where I don't feel pain, but it's becoming easier to not feel guilt. And that's pretty huge.

[sKePTiKal]

Yep; it's huge indeed, Kathy!!

I'm happy for you.