Circumventing avoidance and moving into pain as a journey

[Gaining Strength]

In the middle of the night I had an understanding of a combination of factors that helped me cobbled together a confluence of forces that have had a profound influence on my life.  That full comprehension vanished on waking much like that of a dream but it was one of those moments even in my semi-consciousness that I knew was a kind of unified theory.

In essence what I saw was that the key for me is to be able to stand in the pain and transcend it.  This is not unlike what is done in many forms of meditation.  There are several obstacles that I will have to overcome in order to do that and one of them is the "adrenal" issue that can be described essentially as the adrenal gland being stuck on full blast after so many years of extreme stress.  It leaves me in a constant state of low level agitation, much like a never ending caffeine buzz.  So that when ever any outside event occurs that adds to that stress my levels go off the chart and my coping skills along with them.

No question that meditation would help with this but unfortunately the level of everyday agitation is high enough to make sitting still much less with an empty mind is nigh impossible.  So I need to find some intermediary to release or overcome that state of "normal" for me in order to make use of meditation or yoga.  The things I have used for "avoidance" have been to soften or distract from that miserable state of agitation.

I am finding that the more I come to understand what is at work the more likely I will be able to find a way around.  So many years of "moralizing" have added to that internal voice of "not good enough" and expectation of condemnation which add to the state of agitation and which make attempts to circumvent or overcome even more difficult.  It is a messy Gordian knot.

[sKePTiKal]

Try something that's more of a moving meditation - yoga, tai chi or even just "mindful walking". Mindfulness meditation - which involves simply being aware & paying attention in the present moment - can be done simultaneously with normal activities - housework, cooking, gardening...

[Gaining Strength]

That's helpful PR.  I am using Yoga first. 
I find it interesting that certain brain or neurological issues actual impede meditation without some form of movement. 

I have two things going on in life that I know are touching old issues but I cannot yet identify what those are and so I am having a difficult time dealing with these current issues.

One is that a friend gave my son and me a dog back in September.  This dog has been running away daily recently and then on Friday right in front of my eyes she ran into the road in front of a car and got hit.  She is still alive but her recovery is uncertain.  The person who gave us the dog happened into the vet while I was there and she said that she wants to find a different home for this dog because "it seems to be too difficult and too stressful for you."  This dog is a part of our family and while this situation is certainly  concerning once she gave the dog to us it is no longer hers to decide that we are not fit to care for this dog.  While this person is a friend and I like her I am so angry that she thinks she can decide that  the dog should go to someone else.

She called me today but I did not get the call.  When I listened to the message she began by saying that she thought I was avoiding her because of what she said about the dog.  She went on to say that she didn't want to upset me and then ended by saying that she felt she needed to find another home for the dog.

I am not yet able to envision having a conversation with her.  Because it makes me very, very angry that she thinks he has a say whatso ever.  Not to mention the deep anger that it taps into that she has deemed me not able to or not worthy or whatever to take care of the dog.

As it turns out - the dog is in heat and that has a lot to do with her behavior.  But when I have thought about telling this to this person I realize that I am not going to defend myself and argu about why I should be "allowed" to keep the dog.  There are so amny aspects to this that are beyond frustrating.  First of all my son and I love this dog.  She has lived with us since September.  We could not have her spayed because she is being treated for heart worms.  She came to us with heartworms and the person who gave us to her said that she was going to arrange for and pay for the treatment.  But she did not start that process until February.  The dog could not be spayed until the treatment was completed and that would be next month.  But unfortunately she came in heat before she could get spayed.  It has all been a terrible combination of events.

But the idea that this person can deign that we are not worthy of having our dog has been a very low blow for me.  It hits me in a place that is difficult to describe.  It is so clear to me that it parallels the way my father treated me my entire life - giving me things and taking them away because I was not worthy of the gift.

So, though I realized that I will stand up and hold my own on this issue and I will not be surrenderig this dog, I don't want to lose a friendship over it but then again, I feel damned if I do and damned if I don't - yet again.  If I talk to her I will put my foot down and if I don't talk to her - well I guess that would end the friendship as well.  I am not going to be walked over on this and I am not going to be treated as though I am not "good enough"  AND I am not going to "defend" and argue about why I "deserve" to keep this dog - she belongs to us. 

[sKePTiKal]

Hon - dogs have minds and wills of their own.

I agree with you about the boundaries you are trying to draw - and why. But I wonder if it might not be possible to explain to this friend how you see things (not defensively, but as objectively as you can - granted you feel strongly) and not feel offended? As if it's yet another case of the "same old crap"? People are people and therefore not "perfect"... and sometimes we have to tell them what they might not have thought of...

... it's not your fault she doesn't see things from your perspective, you know. But, you can - and might feel you should - tell her what you think... practicing all the while, Hops' "releasing the outcome". Completely releasing the outcome slams and locks the door of "possibility" in the open position, so that you might be pleasantly surprised... or horribly disappointed... but you are ready to accept either extreme... and even something that falls in the middle.

How horrible that you saw it all happen. I hope the driver stopped - many times, they don't.

Things that happen in the "now" don't have to be exactly "the same as"... the original wounds we suffered, even when those feelings are triggered. Different people; different circumstances - and even you are different, dear... give yourself some credit for the breathtakingly spectacular progress you've made!

(((((((((((GS))))))))))))))

[Gaining Strength]

PR - if I were able to have the conversation without being angry I would but at this point in my life I am not able.
Though this particular person is a very easy going person I find it beyond offensive that she thinks she has the right to deign whether or not the dog belongs to us.  That is the hurdle I cannot get past.  And quite frankly, I have very little inkling to try.

Surely you can see how offensive her position is?

I'm not arguing that things are exactly the same as in the past but my point is that, for me, current events that trigger the pain from unhealed wounds in the past, have an extra layer of pain and intensity attached to them.  Dealing with these events are more difficult than dealing with such an event without the past.  That is my point.

As I identify these extreme pains and the memories attached to them I add them to my list of things to be healed but simply identifying them does not do anything in and of itself.

[sKePTiKal]

I do see how offensive her attitude and remark is to you. I do know how it started up an "instant replay" of the old wounds, too. That's why the (((((((((((((GS)))))))))))))) response from me. These kind of life's slings and arrows hurt; I know that.

That kind of "triggering event" is what I call emotional PTSD. It's where something in the here and now is so similar, has elements of the old abuse that scare the pants off me, or makes me so angry - in an impotent way - that I can only splutter angry insensible sounds until I crumple into a pile of helpless, powerless pain.

UNLESS, I cut off the spiral into the instant replay before I get to that point. Because you know, that your survival doesn't depend on this person, nor their opinion of your pet care skills. Her opinion of you is not that important on the scale of things, right? So.... it follows (in my logic, anyway - warped as it is!) that a negative comment like this need not send you back to reliving the intense abusive experience of childhood. Because YOU are in control of your own emotional states and experience now.

SIGH... but I know that it's still going to feel like being 5 yrs old, caught with your hand in the cookie jar. I know, sweetie. And once the replay gets going... it's hard to stop it and jump out of it. So the key is to try to jump out before it gets going - take a breath - step back - take a teeny-tiny time out before responding emotionally. And that's easy to say; it's harder in practice... but the results are really worth it.

Ya know, I'm learning a new phrase down here in the south that might fit as a response for you to hang on to, with your so-called friend's remark. "Bless her heart", that she thinks it's easy to keep a dog from running if they get loose... or that dogs need to be kept penned at all times. [In other words - she can't wear or walk a mile in your shoes - and you're going to disregard her and her negative comment... because you CAN and you CHOOSE to. You're allowed to do that, you know.]

[Hopalong]

Hi GS,
I am really sorry about this dog thing.

I don't want to add judgment, but maybe shed a little light on where her judgment may have come from.

I trained to volunteer at the SPCA, have read a ton of dog books, etc. My understanding of TRUE "dog-people" (as in, sometimes nearly obsessed, but bless 'em) -- is that, whether or not it's fair to you in your unique and painful circumstances, I believe the thinking of a "True Dog Person" (I am a Dog Lover but not motivated or disciplined or as responsible with pets as a True Dog Person to do it right all the time, not by a looong shot)...anyway, their reasoning is:

--any dog that has not been spayed, and might come into heat, YES, should be either penned (or in a securely fenced yard) or if there is no securely fenced yard available, only --and regularly--walked on a leash. Full stop.

Doesn't matter about anybody's individual circumstances or feelings about gifts or whatever, True Dog People don't take that into account. In a True Dog Person way, the SPCA and similar organizations would view "not containing an unspayed dog" or even "letting any dog run off-leash other than in an official dog-park area ever, etc" as "irresponsible dog owner."

I am not saying that is who you are. And I'm not saying it's fair. But Dog People would say that fits those criteria.

I don't know about this specific adoption agreement or understanding or expectation conveyed (or sounds more like it was NOT conveyed but assumed), but when I read breed rescue sites, for example, I'm always quite amazed at how vigorously clearly it is conveyed that if for ANY reason those who made the dog available, later determine that (according to their Dog People rules), the dog is not being responsibly restrained/contained, then the adoption can be cancelled and the dog reclaimed.

Only reason I'm telling you this is in the hope that it might help you not take this so personally. It's just True Dog People rules. The truth is, as difficult as it might be to prevent, the dog ran loose more than once, and eventually was nearly killed because of it.

So the way Dog People see it, it would be an adoption to cancel.

It's not about YOU. It's just about the True Dog People Rules.

Hope that helps you not see this as personal GS victimization. I think it's not...just that the True Dog Person is finding it not okay for a dog to be hit by a car and so...the dog needs to live somewhere where that danger is not present.

Whether you, or anyone, was the adopter -- I truly believe the outcome, in their view, should be the same.

love to you, and hope everyone heals fast...

xo
Hops

[Gaining Strength]

Hops - I'm just scratching my head wondering where you got the idea that my friend was, in your words, "a true dog person" who went by your delineated set of rules?  Or where you came up with the idea that there was an "adoption".  And your assumption about the state of being spayed or not is completely non-applicable in this situation. And the dog WAS on a leash but had pulled away when I tripped and fell on my way into the house.

This was actually not an "adoption" but simply a person who found a dog and could not keep her.  She had asked a number of people and come up short when she asked us.  There was no "agreement", it was a win-win arrangement.  She had a foundling and needed a home for the dog.  We took her.

As for the spaying - this dog could NOT be spayed until next month. She had heartworms when she was given to me and the person who gave her to us said from the beginning that she would be making the arrangements for heartworms treatment but she did not begin the process until this spring.  The dog could not be spayed until the process was complete and that would be next month.  So it was not possible for the dog to be spayed and furthermore noone knew she was in heat until the accident.  There were drops of blood but there was not significant bleeding and it was never clear what the source of those drops of blood were until hindsight shone a light on it.  I thought perhaps one of the dogs or cats had a cut paw and I had checked them all several times.  So all of this was a great misfortune, a confluence of a number of unpredictable and unforeseeable forces.

So actually your assumptions simply don't apply in this specific incidence.

[Hopalong]

You're right, GS...I guess I did make some assumptions.

I thought since you mentioned she'd been running off every day, that it sounded as though she wasn't safely contained.

I'm so sorry she was hit by a car and I'm sure it was traumatic for all of you -- you, your son, and the poor dog as well. I'm sure the friend's wanting to take the dog back after the accident made it an even more painful event.

I would've been upset in every direction!

(And I'm sure part of it is because I miss my dear old pooch.)

love,
Hops

[Gaining Strength]

It's time for me to go.
I have found great value here for quite some time learning and sharing about narcissits and the struggle to overcome their damage
but I have been looking for and needing something differrent and in my mind I was trying to remake this place into what I need which is a place where there is affirmation but not so much unsolicited advice.

When I was in AlAnon years ago it was a very healing environment because differing opinions were allowed to thrive but not get shoved down one another's throat.
We are all different.  We are wounded differently and have different needs but sometimes a group of wounded people without any guidelines to form those much needed boundaries can be even more wounding rather than helping and that is what I have experienced too often as of late. 

Some of the most important issues for me have been trounced and violated so that I kept lopping off whole segments that I no longer felt safe to write about until honestly - my dog was the last straw.

There are a number of people I have enjoyed knowing across the years and some whom I would love to be in contact with but my time here has come to a logical conclusion.

Dr. Grossman - thank you for making this place available and I wish you great success in your work and you guide people through the pitfalls of such pain and woundedness into the light.  Best of luck to you and your family and thank you for making this place available for people to learn about narcissists and their ways.

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi Gaining Strength,

Thank you for your kind words.  I’ve always valued your presence on the Board, and I will miss you.  I’m sorry for the pain you have experienced here—and I hope you find elsewhere the healing you so deserve.

Best wishes,

Richard

[CB123]

Oh, GS.  I will be sorry to see you go. 

Especially over this.

I have thought a lot lately about my experience with voicelessness.  In the 3D world, I still experience it sometimes.  Not as much, because life just seems to be different somehow--or perhaps I interpret events differently.  I dont know. 

But one thing I have noticed, is that my experience of voicelessness has almost always been in the area of expressing my opinion.  I could say I was sad, or hurt, or happy or hungry, or any of another number of things--and I didnt get much reaction.  But if I responded with an opinion to something--something that was happening, something someone said...that is where I experienced voicelessness.  Some people are very very threatened by a response that is either inappropriate, or unwanted at that moment, or perhaps too truthful!  When I see rage and retaliation from someone, it is usually when I respond to them or something they have said.

I found that, with some people, it was better to just let them talk with no response or with a response like "uh huh".  (In some situations--with any person--that is appropriate.  But with some people that is the only kind of response one can give without upset).  This, it seems to me, is more of a therapist/patient kind of interaction. 

I havent posted so much on the board lately.  It seems that many of the threads have been soliloquies (not all, some) and I sensed that no comment would be welcomed.  I havent really felt that about you, although I have wondered about your recent comments that you felt judged or that you didnt feel comfortable sharing.  I have felt that that was a bit of a warning to anyone commenting that you were feeling that way--and to please be careful not to do it.

To me, voicelessness is being told not to talk.  Or to be warned that if I talk, there will be something unpleasant happen--rage, or withdrawal.  (Sometimes, it is just the occurrence of something unpleasant every time I talk--and that is reason enough for a wise person to remain silent).  I, personally, do not define voicelessness as the fear of saying something and having the person you are talking to disagree, or misunderstand.  In conversation, if you are misunderstood, and you explain further, and the other person retracts their comment--and even apologizes--that is called a relationship.  Voicelessness is when either or both people feel imposed on from outside themselves not to speak. 

We are all fearful, because of our FOO, that we will be shut down.  That we will not be able to explain ourselves when we are misunderstood.  Sometimes we are so fearful that we see a misunderstanding as voicelessness.  Or we think that our only recourse is to withdraw.  I am speaking to myself here--I struggle constantly against running away.  Every day--and I know it is not normal to feel that way, and I know why I do.  And still I am overwhelmed sometimes with what has happened to me, and the determination that it will never happen again.  I am finding that running is as limiting as voicelessness.

I hope you will reconsider.

CB

[Hopalong]

Me, too.
I hope you will reconsider.

I am sorry, GS, that I was so unhelpful.

I sometimes get triggered by all of the human suffering here...
and I also have some quite intense feelings about humans and
animal suffering. It's something I have written about for some
time on a few blogs and is the topic of my next sermon...

A very unfortunate confluence and I should have stayed quiet
on this thread.

I'll miss you too and hope you change your mind.

with love,
Hops