N moms and their obsession with weight

[Hopalong]

NLAS,
I'm really impressed that you recognized that you violated your own boundary (the one that prohibits that topic of remarks/discussion from your Nmother). Good for you!

Just knowing that, is a really positive sign.

I think there's an inner momentum building toward emotional health going on, when you can identify -- a boundary you care about. (Even in a mistake, dropping or breaching a boundary ... that's a very good way of recognizing you are BUILDING healthy boundaries.)

Good for you!

And the weight thing? Do a lot of reading about culture. I think the answers are often not in physical solutions, but in seriously being just that observant about culture. It's very shocking but after the shock, is some protection from what is false and sick.

You have to see, the constant drone and obsession and fixation and objectification of women's bodies...then, you get angry (maybe), and then you get strong enough to define yourself in a new way.

You do not want to be one of those women who, in her 50s, is still sadly, tragically, emptily, talking about what her weight is. You really don't...

You'll be far, far down the road of living your non-slave life by then.

(I have a friend who has a weight situation. As I first got to know her, she said emphatically one day, "I do not want to talk about this. I will not participate in the usual conversation women have: "Oh you look like THIS, or THAT, or how did you do THAT, etc..." And it's been so lovely to get to know a person who has simply set a Real Boundary around that issue. It's amazing how much free time and peace of mind there is in her attitude toward herself, and it's also clear how much comfort and respect other women feel around her.)

Hops

[nolongeraslave]

I know the goal is to not car about what other people think and say.  I was at that point last year, but this year old habits came creeping up.   My therapist and I are working on that. While you can't control what other people say about your weight, I've made the choice to NOT surround myself with people like that.   Luckily, I do have other friends that respect this boundary. 

Phoenix Rising-I used to the "too skinny" girl that ate like a pig. After 25, things started to slow down and I don't think that's a bad thing.  I'm not a teenager anymore! What's interesting is that my mom still criticized my weight when I was too thin anyway.  In a way, losing weight for her is useless.

[river]

NLS, this is classic projection.  I think its the blatent, implied, but unbelievable messages that can keep one hooked to the other's behaviour by the sheer force of disbelief if nothing else.  Giving you clothes that are too big for you had an implied message of 'I want you to be overwieght', and then in the context ~ so as I can criticise you.  This is a lousy relational bargain.  The bargain offered to some is to step into the disowned toxic shame of the N.  ... in this case her paranoid focuss on being 'fat'.  This intent is quite invasive, and can get into one.  Did with me, tho it was different issues than weight, but hardly matters what the specific issue is.  Its a 'go mad or die' sort of option, ie take on someone elses disowned crazy destructive issues, or no relationshjip at all, which in the N paradigm is = to non existence. 

Gosh, I hel forth there, hope you dont mind.

[sKePTiKal]

Its a 'go mad or die' sort of option, ie take on someone elses disowned crazy destructive issues, or no relationshjip at all, which in the N paradigm is = to non existence. 

River - would you mind, if I borrowed the above and started a new thread with it? Something's been percolating for me along these lines lately... working it's way out of where it's festered so long, you know? This explanation succinctly sums up what I'm slowly realizing I'm dealing with.

TIA

[river]

Oh, definately.  I'll be interested to see where you go with it.
And I can relate to what you're saying. 
r.

[Hopalong]

As useful as analysis and pondering is, I have a strong desire to say that, imn-ho, I think the very most powerful way to not be infected by Nmothers' obsession with weight is to FIGHT BACK very intentionally with VERY PERSISTENT AND POWERFUL THOUGHT-STOPPING.

You're not just fighting Nmothers, you're fighting for your own dignity and self-hood in an ENTIRE CULTURE that is obsessed with female body type, size, shape, number of pounds it weighs, how young it looks or doesn't....

The sooner, faster, more urgently and more profoundly women of any age FIGHT BACK THESE MESSAGES, whether they come from relatives, friends, acquaintances, nearly every single media source that surrounds us (NOTICE the messages! Say "NO!" Say, "I will not take this in!" Say to yourself, "I noticed that pronoun choice! I disliked that anchorperson's remark! I noticed the laughs that implied XX value...") --- or, most perniciously, from within our own heads...

...the better.

Selah.

Harrumph.

(So, as we analyse Nmoms' obsession, a gentle hope that we do not by analysing it, actually find ourselves recreating it...under the name of analysis.)

Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Thanks, river!

NLS - I was the "too skinny" kid, too. That's how I got the only nickname I ever had: Twiggy. I could - and did - eat anything. My metabolism, being based on 24/7 anxiety, must've countered and burned every single calorie. Even 2 pregnancies had no effect. It's like I was a malnourished baby... could pile in the food... and never gain an ounce because what I needed was the "magic ingredient" of being truly cared for -- not resented because I needed to be fed.

But I was establishing bad nutritional eating habits, while I was "getting away with it". It caught up with me later, as my metabolism and lifestyle slowed down. And then, I felt as if I was turning into my mother... genetics, all that, unavoidably trapped like a fly in Amber. But, here's the deal:

that's not true. My DNA is not identical to my mother's... after all, my dad was involved too and he never had a weight problem. Then, there are all the recessive genes, mutations, combinations.... and as far as MY habits - well, I have to own them and not shift the responsibility for them to anyone else. Separate the problem, that is -- and therefore possible routes to a personally satisfactory solution -- from any/all connection with my mom COMPLETELY. And then, and probably only then, will I be able to make a clear, committed choice and carry through with it.

Your mom's comments and actions are invalidation, pure & simple. She's doesn't get a free pass to do this to you, just because she's your mom. (oh! and she doesn't know you better than you know yourself. Nmoms always attribute this kind "magic power" and permission to criticize to themselves... DUH.)

[river]

Hops, not sure exactly what your reacting to here, but I felt some force-field energy there, took some time to think. 

For me, deep insight, specially shared in a relationship, (like that exchange) brings life to the roots of the places where I died, its a vital part of recovery for me.  Its looking to the self and internal experience.  Staring at the N as if from the audience, thats another thing.   
r

[Hopalong]

Thanks, River...you're quite right, it touched a nerve.

Of course we should analyse everything about Ns -- it is about healing and survival.

Wow. Let me think.

Okay, got it:

It makes me absolutely CRAZY (sometimes  ) when I truly open myself to what is happening in this inhuman culture.

Because anti-racism and anti-mysogyny consciousness-raising times were the hallmark of my building a human self...and because the coming-to-consciousness about how bad it really is was truly excruciating...I almost could not stand up in the face of that painful awakening...

All these decades later, when I see that, imo anyway, this culture has become MORE retrograde in regards to females, I have an inner HOWL.

Civil rights? Improved. (Though the ERA didn't pass.) Equal salaries and opportunity? Not hardly. Sexual exploitation? (Welcome our new vocabulary word: "
Trafficking.") Porn? Screensaver for 10-year-olds.

So....I think when I hear women start down the path of ruminations about what they weigh....it triggers that old shock and grief.

All that said, of course it's a real topic to analyse. It just makes me grieve.

I wish women were equally represented in world government and could change the world for peace, stop despots, and help children not starve to death.

Thinking about an Nmother aggravating and intensifying that cultural obsession with controlling the female body reminds me of why I think the world doesn't work. Self-loathing disables us from fixing the world.

(I'm sure the fact that I work for a sexist boss, 70s-style, also made me react.)

Thank you for noticing my strong reaction and giving me a chance to ponder it more.

love,
Hops

[nolongeraslave]

I've been at mom's for 4 days now.  It's been better than past visits, but her N-ness always creeps in at the end when you least expect it.

Just now, my mom said "Your sister-in law says that you don't talk at all.  She's more mature than you. You need to have some feelings for your family. Your boyfriend will get bored of you if you're so quiet."   This may sound innocent to an outsider, but this is clearly an  N's undermining disguised as care and cocern.

She also said my brother was upset that why I didn't go to a yoga class with him and that he's trying to motivate me.  I texted my brother and he said he was never upset. 

Ever since I landed in my mom's house, I've been very sick. Throwing up out of nowhere, stomach pains, etc.  If I'm sick, I can't go everywhere.  My Body Dysmorphic Disorder has also been very high.  I didn't talk much during lunch with my family members, because I couldn't control obsessing over my weight. I know it's wrong, but the thoughts are there and I just wanted to pull my skin off.

I told my mom the stuff she said isn't appropriate and she yelled at me saying "how are you going to talk to your kids? I can't say anything to you! Maybe your boyfriend can't say anything to you either."

I'm glad I'm leaving today.
The only good thing is that my mom hasn't mentioned anything about my weight.

[sKePTiKal]

NLS - it sounds like you were miserable for 4 days. And "allergic" to your mom, to boot.

You poor thing! Be extra kind to yourself the next week. Think about whether it's possible to choose not to put yourself in that situation again. Why or why not. Or if you could visit - but stay in a hotel (my "instant boundary" strategy) - to have some downtime to regain your inner balance. I shudder to remember the last time I stayed in the same house as my mom... and she refused to acknowledge, much less respect my boundary of time to think, by myself. I think she would've followed me into the bathroom, except I locked the door.

If you insist on and enforce your boundary, it is possible to protect yourself... and if not train the Nmoms... at least get them used to you having your own space. My "allergy" still hasn't gone away... except when I'm not around my mom!   

[river]

Thanks, River...you're quite right, it touched a nerve.

Of course we should analyse everything about Ns -- it is about healing and survival.

Wow. Let me think.

Okay, got it:

It makes me absolutely CRAZY (sometimes  ) when I truly open myself to what is happening in this inhuman culture.
Because anti-racism and anti-mysogyny consciousness-raising times were the hallmark of my building a human self...and because the coming-to-consciousness about how bad it really is was truly excruciating...I almost could not stand up in the face of that painful awakening...
All these decades later, when I see that, imo anyway, this culture has become MORE retrograde in regards to females, I have an inner HOWL.
Civil rights? Improved. (Though the ERA didn't pass.) Equal salaries and opportunity? Not hardly. Sexual exploitation? (Welcome our new vocabulary word: "
Trafficking.") Porn? Screensaver for 10-year-olds.
So....I think when I hear women start down the path of ruminations about what they weigh....it triggers that old shock and grief.
All that said, of course it's a real topic to analyse. It just makes me grieve.
I wish women were equally represented in world government and could change the world for peace, stop despots, and help children not starve to death.
Thinking about an Nmother aggravating and intensifying that cultural obsession with controlling the female body reminds me of why I think the world doesn't work. Self-loathing disables us from fixing the world.
(I'm sure the fact that I work for a sexist boss, 70s-style, also made me react.)
Thank you for noticing my strong reaction and giving me a chance to ponder it more.
love,Hops

.. Hi, was away on hol and wondering what was happening here!  Interesting what you said here.   All that narcissistic values about appearance stuff, and society is riven by it, it can be a killer.  It ignores the human soul, as you say. 

   It makes me absolutely CRAZY (sometimes  ) when I truly open myself to what is happening in this inhuman culture.
   

.... me too, tho my trigger points would be slightly different.....in fact everything that arises from irresponsibilty and consumerism, which is just about everything.... yeah, its too overwhelming huh!   ... that phrase 'dont get me started.....'   comes to mind ! 

I think theres a difference between being trapped in the ruminations, and having the deep feelings like you had, and wanted to get the thinking and understanding together with the feelings, like a sort of determined chasing down the roots of exactly what happened, with a strong IN ORDER TO    factor, that is, understanding the depths in order to free oneself.   But I do know, it can become a terribly preoccupying trap.  I got like that over Sam Vaknin, my first stop of discovery, learnt a lot tho. 

[sKePTiKal]

Regarding weight... and with respect to Hops' sensitive button... and the healing we're all trying to do...

Societal impacts and subliminal messages are probably way less important than the matter of acceptance, being allowed to be "one's SELF" and acknowledged as different from mom... and yet still loved dearly sans criticism, projection of anything, or judgement. Including self-criticism, judgement, impossible expectations, and maybe even self-respect.

I'm a good 20 lbs overweight for my height and age. Not more than that. With my height and the right clothes, I can create the illusion of looking "decent" for my age and the normal body changes... yet, I desperately want to return to the days of a flat tummy, strong muscles, a more willow-y silhouette... because that is who I still SEE in my mind, when I see me. That is who was attractive to men - and I liked the way I looked. Of course, that physical me, existed when I was still not being nurtured emotionally and felt constantly be-seiged by threats (and my own anxiety).

Once in a relationship where I began to get that kind of nurturing - I let that happen with food, not exercising, cocooning too. Like being hooked up to an IV of emotional nurturance... I LIKED it and was insatiable... more, please!       Really, I don't blame myself for this. I understand it... I understand the need. One does eventually get "full"... it's finally enough. And while I understand that I'll never be a healthy 110 lbs again... and that it's not fair to blame my excess weight on my mom's genes... or resign myself to looking physically "just like my mom" (that would be self-cruelty, for me)... I can take my inner need to control my physical being and turn it toward the goal of eating better nutritionally, eating in a way that works to help reduce this "insulation" I've accumulated - like more frequent small meals, and beginning the task of physically pushing myself to be more physically active... all while reducing my dependence on nicotine simultaneously... so that my outside can begin to represent how much better I feel about myself on the INSIDE. In a way that's quite personal, is ME... and not my mom... I can use that "control" that got out of hand without boundaries... and put it to a healthy, productive use for myself. And STILL keep the emotional nurturance flowing...

while I figure out what the right balance is, between "work" and "acceptance of what I can't change" is for me. NLS, I think you've got a lot of control over your body - it's a useful tool; you just might want to try applying it a little differently -- in a way that satisfies your inner "YOU" and no one else. I believe you can do this... and not let your mom throw any monkey wrenches in it. It's not HER body, you know. She doesn't own you... and you aren't going to 'hurt' her via hurting yourself; you won't make her happy with you via hurting yourself, either.

[bearwithme]

Haven't had time to read every post here but wanted to comment before my 4 year old discovers I'm on the computer. 

My Nmom comments on everyone's weight.  She, herself, is at least  35 pounds overweight at only 5'2" and wears shorty shorts, ripped off sleeve hoodie sweatshirts (the kind that teen girls wear, the "Juicy" brand) and little flowery flip flops.  Nmom's buttocks hangs out of the shorty shorts "hot pants" and zips the hoodie down past cleavage level exposing sagging breast and the beginnings of her large tummy.  She looks crazy.

Yet, Nmom calls other women "fat ass" and "fat bitch" and "fat and lazy." 

My Nmom wanted to wear a backless, low cut, slinky dress to my wedding and I kindly suggested an elegant sophisticated dress that was absolutely gorgeous, it was strapless but had a sheer, beaded wrap that would go around her shoulders, and she said, "You just want me to look all covered up in a mummy suit, I don't want to look old!"  Uh, hello.

Bear

[river]

Oh dear!  the best intentions ....
Its all rather excrutiating with Ns