Author Topic: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011  (Read 6324 times)

Hopalong

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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2011, 10:38:46 PM »
Ohh poo, Mud. Let me clarify:

I KNOW that was an extremely feminine image. Contemplated it quite consciously and decided, so what. If one just takes it for the actual idea....it's kind of powerful. For any person. Even Mud Bunyan.

Snicker away. Hummpphhh. Worth contemplating what's scary about that kind of comfort...
I think for you (if Doc G doesn't mind a wee hijack of a sober thread...) Mud, I'd suggest a bubble bath. Perhaps with lavender.

If you prefer some image like an armored Transformer bulleting away, have at it.
They've never done any any good except in the short-term.

I prescribe a wall of roses.

Mystics used to talk about whiffs of fragrance as a spiritual message. Visitations of the holy.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

BonesMS

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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2011, 07:41:21 AM »
Dr. G:

Tonight is Yom Kippur.  May your fast be an easy one.

Bones
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Dr. Richard Grossman

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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2011, 03:24:07 PM »
Hi Bones,

Thanks!  Actually, (shhhhhhhh!) I don't fast.  I try to apologize for all my sins as they occur.  I'm the kinda person who hates going into debt.



Hi tt,

I'll get to your question tonight (after the service) or tomorrow, probably as I'm munching on a bacon cheeseburger.



Richard

P.S.  I didn't say that about the bacon cheeseburger...I did????  O.K. I apologize.


mudpuppy

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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2011, 04:17:48 PM »
Quote
if Doc G doesn't mind a wee hijack of a sober thread...

Judging by his last comment, it would not appear so. :D

mud

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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2011, 05:06:08 PM »
Hops, one of my visualisations includes Mud, with weapons, to protect me.

Hopalong

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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2011, 10:38:01 PM »
Okay, I got it...

Mud, with roses in his teeth and lavender draped over his ears, rising out of the bubble bath like King Kong (but armor instead of fur)...defending us all against the Nplanes buzzing around our heads...

but he shows us they're just skeeters...

Yup, this notion is definitely working.

:)

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

mudpuppy

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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2011, 10:23:05 AM »
Hate to  disillusion you guys but I wasn't even too good at protecting my own family from the creeps.
I hope I'm better at getting back some of what they stole, although there is no recompense for a lot of what was taken from us.

mud

Hopalong

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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2011, 12:11:35 PM »
I beg to differ....
you may not have been able to prevent the first attacks (who can?)--
but you
REALLY
FOUGHT
BACK.

And that is being protective.
And a success.

(((((((((((Mud))))))))))))

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

BonesMS

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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2011, 12:58:42 PM »
Hi Bones,

Thanks!  Actually, (shhhhhhhh!) I don't fast.  I try to apologize for all my sins as they occur.  I'm the kinda person who hates going into debt.



Hi tt,

I'll get to your question tonight (after the service) or tomorrow, probably as I'm munching on a bacon cheeseburger.



Richard

P.S.  I didn't say that about the bacon cheeseburger...I did????  O.K. I apologize.




LOLOLOL!!!!  Thanks for the laugh, Dr. G!  I needed that!   :lol:

Bones
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Dr. Richard Grossman

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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2011, 12:04:39 PM »
Hi tt,

Here are some answers to your questions:

Could you talk a little about attachments vs relationships?  What is the difference?   I'm trying to decipher whether I have attachments or relationships or a mixture and if a relationship can be a part of an attachment?   Am I doing relationships well?  Are my attachments healthy?

Most of us have “relationships” with many people, but attachments to relatively few.  I think it’s a matter of degree—how much does the person affect you (both when you are with them and not with them) and how much would it affect you if they left permanently or died?  The people we are “attached” to have much larger effects on us—and I suspect there is attachment circuitry in our brain that is different from the typical relationship circuitry.  I also suspect that the attachment circuitry is part of many animals for survival reasons.  If parents did not form these attachments to children and children to parents, the children—and their genes-- (at least in the human species) would be far less likely to survive.

It is interesting to note that Buddhism sees attachments as pain inducing (in part because they are always—ultimately—temporary), and through meditation people learn to reduce the affects of inborn attachment circuitry, and substitute other brain pathways.

So, are attachments healthy?  Desirable?  And if so, with whom?  How emotionally and psychologically independent/self-sufficient should one strive to be?  In my talk, I gave my personal answer to these questions, but each person must answer them for themselves.

By unusual (attachments), I'm thinking you mean it in a very practical sense (like perhaps forming a bond with one of your buds at the dog park) as opposed to unusual in a strictly psychological sense?

Actually, I suspect, given this particular dichotomy, I’m referring to the latter.  I cannot talk about my attachments to my patients (for obvious reasons) except to say that (and I think I’ve said this before on the Board) up until this year, none of my long-term patients has ever referred to me another person except for a beloved family member—and that’s only happened twice I think (and with some ambivalence).  Now, that may mean my patients feel they got stuck with a lousy therapist, and they don’t want to inflict the same on others they know.  But I think (and hope) that what it means is that 1) they don’t want interference in the relationship from other people revealing information about them, of their revealing information about other I know, and mostly 2) they don’t want to share me.   It is the second reason that my patients have talked about—and this, IMO, has a lot to do with unusual “attachment”.  I say unusual because, in my experience, most people in therapy who are happy with their therapist, if asked, are more than willing to recommend their therapist to a friend.  (BTW, if any therapists-to-be ever read this post:  mine is a lousy business model.)

Re: unusual attachments to family/friends, I’ll just give one example.  I e-mailed M. (my daughter) a copy of my talk this year (above).  She got back to me almost immediately, said it was “great”, talked about the importance of genetic “passages”, told me that she had found on-line many of the family graves in Brooklyn, and suggested we do a walking tour together--a kind of father-daughter “morbid family bonding” experience.

Also, I've tried to find one of your posts from about two years ago where you mentioned that your daughter lived not far from the burial sight of her grandparents.  I remember the comment you made about it being right humorous, something to do with her visiting them.   I couldn't find the right word to get the browser to pull it up.  Do you remember the one I'm talking about?

Sure.  That was on the first page of the lovely Daphne Merkin thread: 

http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=9595.0

BTW, the mausoleum I refer to in that post belongs to my father’s side of the family--another stop on the walking tour!

Richard



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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2011, 06:17:31 PM »
Richard

Quote
suggested we do a walking tour together--a kind of father-daughter “morbid family bonding” experience.
next time she visits?

(I asked for something similar, although not morbid, a revisiting of my very early life places, shared places. It didn't happen.)

Dr. Richard Grossman

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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2011, 07:32:46 PM »
Hi Freshwater,

Sorry, I wasn't clear.  My daughter lives in Brooklyn, NY--and the cemeteries are in Brooklyn and Queens, NY (both part of New York City).  So, it would be the next time I visit her.  BTW, I have never been to the cemeteries in question, nor do I know where they are, so she would be the tour guide based on her research.  I'm sorry you didn't get a chance to visit the places that were important to you...

Richard

BonesMS

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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2011, 05:16:06 AM »



Almost all of my people are buried in two cemeteries.  Almost all of my dead relatives are buried in two cemeteries.  The cemeteries are less than 1/4 mile apart.  They were purposely put on high places and they are rural.  Depending on the time of year and the weather, you can sometimes see one of them from a mile or so away.  It is beautiful.  As a matter of course, country people like myself often visit the cemeteries where their kin are buried.   I have a cousin whose hobby is archiving burial sites.  

tt

TT,

Your cousin sounds like she's into genealogy, which is a fun hobby!  I need to find a bumper sticker that says:  "I brake for cemeteries."  Other family historians will understand.

Bones
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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2011, 08:18:00 AM »
Hi Freshwater,

Sorry, I wasn't clear.  My daughter lives in Brooklyn, NY--and the cemeteries are in Brooklyn and Queens, NY (both part of New York City).  So, it would be the next time I visit her.  BTW, I have never been to the cemeteries in question, nor do I know where they are, so she would be the tour guide based on her research.  I'm sorry you didn't get a chance to visit the places that were important to you...

Richard

I think I didn't read too well Richard (sorry)!  Thanks for your words. It's just difficult for me to even find them on my own. Letting go is a constant, it seems.

Dr. Richard Grossman

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Re: "Passages": Yom Kippur 2011
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2011, 04:36:48 PM »
Hi tt,

I think the Merkin article generated irritability/conflict—so I didn’t take your response personally.  We do have a wonderful group of people here—thank you for your kind words. 

“Maybe I didn’t want to share you.”

Even on a message board, if you make an "attachment" with a person, I think it can be hard...

Richard