Going NC, at least for a while

[Redhead Erin]

I have really given this some thought, and I need some space, really.  I can 't go on being my mothers puppet. 

How do you do it? For those of you who went NC, what did you do?  Did you call or send a letter?  Did you wait fo rthem to call you?  Did you just stop answering thre phone?

She wants to see me; she will be calling in a week or less with a fake emergency.  I don't want to fall for it this time.

Any advice?

[Guest]

I found/find it relatively easy because I live far enough away. I'm also not a great 'feeder' (I don't jump to their demands).

Once I ceased communication, they stopped too.

Not so easy for you.

It's fine to lie.

In your position, I might invent my own problems, e.g. "Sorry I can't, I'm having problems." And as she asks you every which way what can possibly be more important than her, just keep repeating the same line. Never explain, argue, or change your line. Just say 'No'. Be prepared for them to go nuts, I guess.

[sKePTiKal]

What good would come from announcing your decision? Would she understand, feel awful, apologize?

I didn't think so.

I moved 1000 miles away back in 1980... I had to, for my own sanity. Yet, I still made the obligatory trips back for years... and each time was worse (for me, my kids) than the time before. I stopped going, yet got suckered one more time this year, when my brother asked me to travel. She has for all these years, called me every week - to talk about herself, of course.

Caller ID and voicemail have worked great for me (I'm not completely NC). I started out simply not picking up the phone when I saw it was her. Leave me a message. If it's important, I can call her back -- and most of the time, the messages were purely BAIT to get me hooked back into listening to her supposed tale of woe. I was training myself to resist, I guess. Sometimes, my own life was nuts enough... and when I saw it was her... I wouldn't pick up, just to spare myself that "last straw" that also sends me into a self-harm downward spiral. Later, I learned to evaluate the messages. I have gone as long as two months without calling her back. When she asks if I was travelling, I just tell her I was busy.

Yeah, busy living my own life and taking care of my own family... you know, what I'm supposed to do!

When I feel strong enough in myself - I will pick up, with that sense of resignation that "I might as well get this over with" - because all she wants is to be able to spew out anything in her mind at that moment - even if it's delusional. It goes in one ear and out the other now - I had to train myself to do this, too. I'm helping support her delusion that she has a relationship with me... I know better. She hasn't cared about me for 40+ years. But for me, this is the placebo Rx that keeps my own guilt at bay. It costs me maybe 30 minutes, each time I participate.

After a couple of years, she's started to space out her calls to every couple of weeks instead of every week... so maybe Ns are trainable, after all? But the best thing about this, is that I learned to tell when the "emergencies" were fake (almost all of them)... and when I'd respond with rational solutions... she'd immediately change the subject because I could challenge each and every wrong assumption or boundary denial she was claiming for herself. The NO word became my best friend, too. It actually becomes fun to say NO, after a while. Especially to the more out-there demands...

Erin, the BENEFITS you gain from creating your own space without mom... are more time & energy, a more concrete sense of self-identity and immediate family identity... more peace in your life... more capability to grow, get ahead, and carry on simply enjoying living your life. If you find NC is too difficult... there's always LC (limited contact). The "rules" making is up to you - not her. Don't give her a chance to define terms by announcing it to her - just do what you need to do FOR YOU.

Best of luck, hon... and don't forget: you can always talk about how it's going, here. You don't have to do this completely alone without ears to listen, a shoulder to cry on, or someone to cheer you on.

[BonesMS]

Going NC seemed to be fairly easy for me after going LC for a short while.  I noticed that the more LC I became, the more the N ramped up her BS!  The last phone call from her just ticked me off.  (She wanted me to instantly DROP my medical situations and cater to her as if I were her servant because, in her view, I "had nothing to do and nowhere to go because I'm not married."   )  I repeated the same line I had told her before:  "I AM NOT AVAILABLE!" (I stopped repeating my explanations because it was clear she was NOT hearing ANYTHING I was saying!)  Her last sentence to me was:  "You don't call me anymore! WHIIIIIIIIINE!!!!"  My final statement was:  "YOU DON'T LISTEN!" and I hung up on her!  (God bless Caller ID as I refuse to deal with her anymore!)

Bones

[fraidycat]

It was gradual for me. I started by setting boundaries and everytime they were broken (and they were!) I clamped down harder. For example, when she would start bad mouthing people I told her that if you have a problem with someone else discuss it with them, not with me! I don't know how many times I repeated that! & when she ignored it I told her I had to go and ended the conversation. She use to get verbally abusive on the phone with me, to stop that I let her know that I had put her on speaker phone and exposed her to my family & from now on if she wanted to talk to me ALL calls are now on speaker phone (this was my daughter suggestion, 12 at the time!)  She called a few times after that and was as sweet as pie! (she was playing up for the audience!) then must have gotten bored with it and stopped calling altogether. A few years later she tried to start trouble again, she called about my sons graduation and acted as if we were close, she wanted to know when we were picking her up! I let her know we had to leave early but that we would drop tickets off for her. Long story short she tried to get me to say she wasn't invited and when that didn't work (I reassured her she was welcome & not to use me as an excuse if she didn't want to come) she called my husband's cell and left a message & lied about it. She screamed and raged about how I told her she couldn't go and how sick I was and that he shouldn't support any of my decisions because it's the worst thing he could do for me in my state of mind. He was at home when she called and on speaker phone.  I calmly called her back to let her know she was exposed again on speaker phone & told her then that until she started getting help for her problems that I wanted no contact. That's the last time I talked to her... think she's afraid of me now. They hate being exposed. I wish you the best, no matter how you go NC you'll be better off for it!
 Fraidy

[Redhead Erin]

Yes, I think LC is the way to go.  I am trying to get my horrible crippling mortgage restructured.  I know the law is on my side, but also I know how long that can take.  Until it comes through, I still can do with a little financial training wheels.  Honestly, she uses me so badly, and treats me and Ted just like hired help, I no longer feel bad about getting "paid" in the form of allowance, groceries, gas money, or Kiddo's college fund payments.  But I am sick and tired of getting jerked around. 

I occasionally have clients and photographers who cross my boundaries, get on my nerves, and other wise drive me batty.  Funny thing is, I have NO PROBLEMS saying, "I am not happy with your behavior.  If you don't change your behavior, I will leave."  So I have told myself that as long as a need to see her (because she has the money) and she insists on treating us with less consideration than she treats her house cleaner or lawn service, then I should treat her just as I do any client.  With customers, photographers, and clients, I outline my expectations (I don't care if they are listening; I feel I have done my part), I stick to my expectations (And if I make any concession I have already planned it in advance) and I ALWAYS get paid.

This would be a really, really great way to manage this situation, if only the stakes weren't so emotionally high.

[sKePTiKal]

"... if only the stakes weren't so emotionally high"...

This is something that you, yourself, can control you know. It takes practice, effort, work - and the kind of forethought that you've put into deciding how you would treat your mom, if she were just another client. We all make mistakes in this area - even after years of practice - but it's still worth the effort for each and every success one experiences.

Now, ahem! For a slightly cheeky observation:

why should a woman who's obviously bordering on - if not completely - abusive to you... regardless of BIO-relationship... be treated any differently (or affect you so deeply) than any almost-stranger client? It's not like you have a responsibility to maintain the appearances of a relationship, when the cost to you is higher than you can or are willing to bear, correct?

That said: this is a really dicey topic - a den full of snakes, emotionally - and of the people I know who've gone through that den, we all have chosen different "terms" or conditions of "truce". What ends up in those terms, I guess, is what you can live with... so there's no one right answer for everyone. I made my cheeky observation only to give you another way to think about it... not to suggest that it's "the one" answer for you. You'll find your own...

... and from your last post, it seems you're pretty well on your way!

[Redhead Erin]

The stakes are so high because she is SO GOOD at making me feel guilty.  Hell, after 40+ years of training, she should have accomplished something . . . .

The big theme in my childhood was that I had no right to stand up for myself. Not to her or any one else.  Two of my strongest memories form childhood were 1)a paper-reut customer turned two big dogs on me and stood laughing in his doorway while I beat them off with newspapers, and I got in trouble for calling the police and 2) after I had lost a bunch of weight on some diet and looked really good, I was horribly berated and shamed for wanting an egg and toast for breakfast on Easter morning, instead of eating a bunch of sticky pastries with her.

As a dancer, one of my biggest breakthroughs and the key to my ability to keep working, day after day, year after year, is my ability to protect myself, both physically and emotionally.  I remember as a little girl watching my Grandmother handle people.  She never raised her voice, never swore, and always got her way.  She simply laid out her expectations and insisted they would be met.  I handle clients the same way.  It works like a charm. 

It is harder with my mother because
1) she is my mother. You aren't supposed to treat your mother like a client.
2) She knows me really well and is really really super-extra good at pushing my buttons
3) years of conditioning have made me so I now regularly abuse myself and slip into self-loathing mode as soon as I see her or hear her voice.
4) I have been trying for years to treat her with "Christian Charity" and kindness, because I believe that is the right way to treat people.  In a way, it is hard to change over to a "businesslike" relationship because it violates one of MY personal moral standards
5) it is hard to just give up.
6) I am terrified of my son treating me like that in my old age.  After all, what kind of example am I setting for him?
7) And yes, for some bizarre reason, I feel I DO have some sort of obligation to her, although I cannot understand why.

In short, she has trained me well.  Shoot, and I thought she was no good at discipline. 

[Hopalong]

I understand your list, Erin--almost every one spoke to me personally, reminded me of the decade with my mother and how at times it was realizing I was a frog in a pot of slowly-heating water, and other times, Cinderella, and other times, a damaged and manipulated child, and other times--the grownup in the room.
Add in the hook of the terrible economy when you have financial need and it's hard to untangle. I especially relate to #4.

I think, fwiw, there's a key in one of them that will solve all of them.

#3.

If you get enough therapy and especially, study and practice and take training in assertiveness (this isn't self-defense or how to manage other people), and especially, find a community experience in which you can build close trusting healing relationship (iow, liberal religion even if you're agnostic; women's support groups where you are who you are without judgement; group therapy in addition to individual).

You can cure #3.
And then all the others, you will have answers to because proportion, values, fears, compassion (for self as well as others) will arise out of the practice of healthy assertiveness.

Healthy assertiveness is not anxious or angry. It is calm and strong and peaceful.

I truly believe someone who's been wounded in the ways you (and I) have...cannot simply "decide to do it." I believe, from watching and doing over the years--that assertiveness training is the key.

Hope some of that helps a little.

Don't hurt yourself. Don't debase yourself.

Are you maybe in some way rolling all fear of judgment/rejection into one person? Her?
You've figured out your own ways of having confidence and dignity in your work...maybe she's the repository for all the parts of you that are still afraid of being unloved, or proven "bad."

You're a good person.

love to you,
Hops

[Nonameanymore]

NC has been liberating to me - am NC for 16 years now.
They don't stop, at least mine didn't. First she gave me some space, then when she realised I wasn't going back, she harassed and still does at least once a year (with more than one ways).
You have your own family and some good role models from what you share. The first obligation is to yourself and your own sanity.


Good luck with whatever you decide!

[Redhead Erin]

Oh, thanks so much everybody!  Hops, I think assertiveness training is a great place to start.  I wonder if the VA offers it......

It would help me choose and stick to boundaries until the mortgage adjustment comes through.

[sKePTiKal]

Along with Hops' excellent suggestions, one thing that helped me to crack the auto-functioning "conditioning" to engage in self-harm, and still helps... is to let yourself chew over some really radical "ideas". Plant the idea and see how it organically spreads throughout yourself, and helps to change the "landscape" of the same old - same old.

My buttons were so sensitive to "mom" pressure that all I had to do was think of something she'd said, and it would set me off.

So: one idea that helped a great deal was to always call her by her name, in my thoughts about her. The idea being, that she is a human being... separate from me... as I am from her... and to recognize my own unique adulthood - capable, competent, creative, etc. That was who I was OUTSIDE of my relationship with mom. It made no sense that this one relationship was the reverse. At a subconscious level, this idea is a way to declare to the world (and most importantly myself) that "mom" doesn't have any power over me - at all; I am the one driving this "me" person... steering... choosing... setting the temp controls and radio station frequency.

Over time - and you can't expect instant results - I began understanding what a pathetic person my mom was... all those rediculous games, boundary intrusions, etc. were some feeble, desperate, sneaky way to try to feel better about herself -- at my expense. But I also started to see at the same time... that I'd had the "power" to choose how I reacted to her and her crap all these years. I indulged in some self-rear-kicking about that... but it's really pointless; I could "redeem" myself with myself now, by being a person who wasn't taken in, conditioned to jump as high as ordered, and kowtow till I melded with the floor and let her walk all over me. Oh - and a side effect of planting this idea was that I didn't feel anywhere close to the old level of guilt about it, either. (That by itself felt tremendously liberating!) That idea is still flowering and spreading and helping me heal in ways I am only barely conscious of.

This idea helps whether you're NC, LC, or still dealing with her... it's kinda like a "get out of jail free" card and is explicit permission to grow beyond the confines of the prison-like relationship your mom still thinks exists... of her power over you. Sure, outwardly you may very well decide to stay engaged in the same crap with her... but inwardly, the threat-level decreases, you strengthen the buttons so they aren't pushed just by breathing on them, and it breaks the auto-response of conditioning to self-harm... which in turn, is a boost to your image of yourself - how you feel about yourself - and if you need a picture to see how this works: it's like taking a downward spiral... and pulling the center of it up... so that the progress goes up and forward, instead down and back into the old, scripted patterns.

She might even notice and wonder what's different about you (but don't hold your breath!) LOL...

And just like any new "skill"... you make mistakes at the beginning - it's not as easy in real life circumstances as it sounds in words - and it takes practice... which is how the old, scripted, prison-conditioning became so embedded in your brain in the first place. Practicing something new, actually replaces the old.... over time, with repetition and by learning and dissecting what goes on, when you do make a mistake or get blindsided. Don't let these mistakes stop you from trying again - the next time. It's absolutely important that you do make mistakes... so you can de-construct all the pieces of dysfunction of the relationship in your understanding and then the lightbulb will go on... and you'll catch yourself right before you get sucked in - again - and stop the whole process.

Uh, yeah - that's the goal, the golden ring, the prize. And then at that point, "mom" and her crap starts to matter a lot less as a stumbling block, obstacle, irritant, or demanding, whiny queen in YOUR life. Then, you've gained your freedom and have the opportunity to figure out what you're going to do with all that extra time and energy!!   

Disclaimer: This works for me - you might need to customize it to yourself. It's a patchwork of ideas, really - a collage. The practice is still ongoing with me; I still screw up big-time... but I no longer pay such a huge price for it by taking it out on myself. That's progress, for me.

I think you're on the right track, kiddo... even though there are always times, when it doesn't feel like it and we just need someone to validate it for us. Hang in there!

[Redhead Erin]

Thank you so much , Hops and Phoenix, for you r excellent suggestions.  Yes, I like the idea of calling her by her first name.  It does seem to break some of the "magic" society as a whole places on "motherhood." 

My son, bless his heart, asked me why I let her hurt me.  I told him, I don't want to be mean to her or ignore her because I don't want him to treat me that way when I get old.  He said, "I wouldn't, because I don't think you would ever be self-centered like Nana is."  He's only 10, but he has been watching me try to cope with this all his life. 

And as for treating her like a client, weeellll..... Actually, SHE is the one who started offering me money to do things for her.  So, it was her idea to make this into a business relationship.  I know this is because she knows, in whatever she has that passes for a heart, that she is a pathetic, demanding, horrible person and that nobody would do anything for her if she didnt pay them.  I found out recently that she pays ALL her "friends" to do stuff for her.  And since she pimped me out since I was a kid, I might as well start collecting my fees, huh?

Part of me wants to hurt her by removing myself and my family from her reach.  Ultimately, this is the healthiest option.  Part of me wants to get back some form of restitution by getting what I can out of her financially while the getting is good. Hell, she spends money like water and by the time she dies, if she ever does, there may not be any money left at all, or as Bones pointed out, she may will all of it to her dog or some other ridiculous thing.

Regardless, until the mortgage thing gets resolved (should have an answer in 2 weeks--I hope!) I have to stay on her payroll.  So I need to set some boundaries and start sticking to them.