The Nothingness Relationship

[sfalken]

There is just nothing but nothing but nothing.

It was in the end, too difficult for my own well being and anxiety level, to be completely NC with my parents. So I began a process of what a counselor suggested as 'detaching with love'. Extending a very long olive branch so to speak, to relieve the stress, and to be able to focus on my life again and my family, while moving toward a permanent, healthier distance.

My 24yr old cousin died earlier this year, and through her funeral, I spoke with my mother, and we've seen them face to face a couple of times since then. All at her behest. He appears not to care. My mother, empty at the core, makes brazen attempts to force my wife and I to come deeper into her web again during conversation, and to entangle the children into her image. My father, who wounded me mortally a year and a half ago with a letter that, was the final step in destroying our relationship in my opinion, sits there and makes a little small talk toward my wife, like nothing happened, and while he speaks to me a little, its easy to see that he doesn't care. He doesn't care if I exist - or if I ever did. Its about him, and 'his wife'.

Its as if his eyes have grown dark. Even though I see my mother as the center of their collective narcissism, I somehow don't blame her as much because she is so mentally handicapped by her condition. I can blow off her stupid comments, and disingenuous words. But him, no I have a harder time with that. I hold him accountable. Yet he sits there silent and arrogant as they come, while looking on the outside like a great and respectable person to others, I know him too well. I remember a time when there was still a light in his eyes, and he seemed to understand, but, not anymore. Just an empty, cold hearted shell of a person I once knew. He has, in a way, become her. He has taken on the role of the core Narcissist - for lack of my own understanding of how to rightly explain it.

I feel abandoned, and betrayed. I know the situation in my conscious mind, but in my subconscious, I have not fully grasped it I guess. There is still that part of me waiting - no matter how much they - and he - have wounded me - and my family, for them to come around. But theres just nothing, and they won't. Just empty words from her, and a blank stare from him.

Its a sad state to exist in, and I often wonder how their last days will play out, and how we will all interact in the minutes, or years to come.

It's about learning to exist in this big grey nothing of a relationship, and to be ok with it.

[teartracks]

So I began a process of what a counselor suggested as 'detaching with love'. Extending a very long olive branch so to speak, to relieve the stress, and to be able to focus on my life again and my family, while moving toward a permanent, healthier distance.

I hear the pain in your 'voice'.   It would be easier if something inward was released to hasten the detaching.  Instead, it's as if a slow moving pulley has been chained to the heart slowly grinding away day after day, year after year, pull, pull, pull.  Maybe it moves slow because if the detaching were done in an instant, it might kill us?  I've detached from my immediate family and to be honest, it appears they have detached from me.  It took a while to come to where we are now.  It is less painful, but it's not how family should be.  I know that, but I don't think they know it.  I think they detached because it's more convenient than working at finding what is at the heart of the matter.

Don't give up.  I think your counselor's idea of 'detaching with love' is right - it sure isn't easy though.

tt

[sKePTiKal]

OUCH.  (((((Sfalken)))))


"Detach with love" is what my T recommended, too. I don't know that I've accomplished this yet. There aren't any one size fits all steps to this process. No way to really measure it either. It's a tough road; especially when the situation is LC vs NC. But it's not complete nothingness for me. In the process, I've sort of found my self - and while that never makes up for the great, tragic, devastating loss of what we hope for in our primary relationships with our parents - it helps us make other healthy connections with people.

You sorta have to just let your parents be who they are - exactly as they are - while still keeping up your boundaries, and finding out what else there is "out there in the world" that's different, is nurturing, and filling up some those empty places in yourself. You're not just allowed to you know; you really will heal from that.

How've you been doing, otherwise? You haven't posted in a while.

[Hopalong]

Hi SFalken,

I think as you continue healing (bravo to you for entering counseling, huge bravo) -- over time, the part of you that is about your parents becomes smaller. There may always be scar tissue there, but your healing and renewing self grows larger, grows around it.

Life itself, love of others, doing activities that have meaning...all of those things nourish your becoming whole.

Have faith that it won't always be this acute.

Try to be curious...even if you lose that for a while from depression, it can begin again.

Hops

[finding peace]

Hi SF,

What you write resonates so much with me.

One of the first things you wrote:

It was in the end, too difficult for my own well being and anxiety level, to be completely NC with my parents.

Personally, I tried and tried and tried limited contact for years, and it didn’t matter.

I was finally able to detach with love (from a very long distance …NC). 

Can I ask a question?  If it is too personal, please don’t feel you have to respond.

What makes it too difficult for your well-being and anxiety level to not walk away?

With love,
Peace

PS. Tic tac toe (sorry if I am wrong, but your name  remindes me of a great movie) – no matter how many times, anyone who plays that game knows you can never win.

Sometimes standing down is all we can do, and it is best for us, and ultimately best for them; although, they may not have the wherewithal to deal or even understand.

With much  love Peace (and unless I have misunderstood your name - aka joshua)  - Peace to you.

[finding peace]

Hi SF,

Apologizing in advance because my post was obscure. 

The movie I was referring to was called “War Games” (I think). 

It starred Matthew Broderick. 

If you haven’t heard of it, MB hacked into a government computer and started playing games with the computer.  Turns out, the computer was in control of defense of the country and MB inadvertently started a nuclear attack against Russia I think.  In any case, the computer’s inventor was named S. Falken, and he named the program Joshua after his son.  To stop the nuclear war from happening, Falken had to teach the computer that there were no winners in a nuclear attack, and he used tic tac toe to teach the computer, which eventually learned. 

Not sure if your name is derived from that movie – but it is a great metaphor for a child of an N  - no winners.  Unfortunately, the N doesn’t seem to learn, at least IME.

Love,
Peace

[sfalken]

Hello -

Thank you to everyone who has replied as always. I always hope that my situation will at least help someone else to know they are not alone - and each time I ask a question, post a thought - I am amazed at how thoughtful everyone here is, and kind.

How insightful. I actually got a chill reading what you said. Sfalken stands for Stephen Falken from War Games - exactly as you suspected. The thing that never struck me was the irony in my choosing that name years ago, and how it relates to my own life. I loved that movie growing up. I think I'll like it even more now given the new meaning. Just like those of us in these situations with N family or signigicant others - regardless of how you play the game, the result is always the same. Wow.

For me, sitting in front of the therapist one day, I laid out what was happening at that point, and she pointed out a few things. One of them being - that for me, it is difficult to just cut ties with your family, and to be left with that dark feeling like you are the cold, dark force behind the family's sad fate. She noticed that I was feeling destraught over all of the attacks that were coming in my direction from my N parents while I tried to maintain NC, and suggested that maybe for my own peace of mind, the 'long olive branch' would offer the advantage of a) not feeling responsible for my parents personality disorders and how it has destroyed our chance at a family and b) that it would help to lower the pressure from my parents to try to force us into their direction.

To some degree, both a, and b, have been correct for me - but of course, nothing is perfect, right?

Otherwise - (to Phoenix) Despite the gray clouds closing in on us here in the US Midwest - I've been very busy with several things - boating and fishing, photography (I run an online photography website/business), music (guitar and mandolin @ home) and of course, my children, and wife, and yes... my day job. (not in order of importance, btw) I think it makes it easier for me to keep my mind occupied. Overall, things are ok in aspects not having to do with my FOO family. (family of origin)

I have to run and take care of a few things but I wanted to reply now with this. I will write a couple other thoughts when I have a little more time. Thanks again all. -SF

[finding peace]

Hi SF,

I loved that movie too!

Thank you for taking the time to answer.  

This hit hard:

and to be left with that dark feeling like you are the cold, dark force behind the family's sad fate.

This is exactly how I felt.

It helped me to put into words what I was feeling at the time that I went NC.

In an instant (it was all feelings – no logic at all).. I realized that I am the cold, dark force behind my family’s sad fate.

Not necessarily in my mind but theirs’.

And there was absolutely nothing I could do to change it.

At that moment, I decided I can be reminded day in day out that I am their dark force, or I can walk away and be their dark force without having to deal with their opinion every time I saw them, when I know it is not true.

I still struggle with NC at times, and your post really helped.

I get a strong feeling that our situations are very different.  From what you have posted I feel that you may need to stay limited contact to keep your finger on the pulse of what is going on around you, especially for your kids.  

I don’t.

If it helps with limited contact and detaching with love – if you start to get frustrated, angry, hurt…. Please imagine me at your back, giving you support to see through the BS to what is underneath. (on edit... My new mantra when dealing with N's ...  tic, tac, toe...)

I totally respect your decision especially given your circumstances.

Much love,
Peace

[sKePTiKal]

SF,

I noticed something, in your list of things you're doing... there's an echo of the same, over here on my side - I think; not sure. The things you're busy with are solitary pursuits. Things you do mostly by yourself, right? Or are you fishing with friends and playing with other musicians? How's your social life?

[sfalken]

Come to think of it, most of the hobbies I pursure are solitary. I wonder how/if that fits into this picture. I get offers from others who want to come out on the boat or to go fishing, but I mostly prefer that time to be alone in the silence, watching the sun rise, etc. Once in a great while my son will go - and once in a blue moon, my wife and daughters.

With music - I grew up around many musical people and I do miss having others to play with now, but, I dont have contact with anyone anymore who does (most of the people I used to play with were friendships lost because of the issues with my parents - them demonizing me to others), so it has transformed into an 'alone' hobby that i use to play for my kids, and when no one is around.

And then, theres photography. One of the loves of my life.. there again, its mostly a solitary undertaking. Sometimes I find myself using photography as a way to communicate my feelings about the issues with my parents. Often not. Either way, it's best when its silent so I can think.

So I guess - that is a great point, and I should do a bit of an inventory on my social life. Perhaps thats yet another corner of my life that needs to be swept out a bit and tidied up.

Recently my mother sent me a slew of text messages, full of demands, 'me, me, me, me' statements, and references meant to 'put me in my place'. All about how horribly ill she claims to be (as always) and why we should do everything she wants us to do because she says her days are numbered. Its at times like that, when I wonder if detaching with love is the right path. when we were NC, yes, I had that big dark feeling of being the cause of the separation (even though I was not), but I didnt have to hear all of the bizarre demands etc. from my mother. I didnt have to be witness to the lack of interest from my father. There was just my own guilt that I had to live with.

It appears that detaching with love, while it does help you to have less guilt within, and relieves some of the stress of NC, it gives the N or borderline personality they are paired with a sense that you have 'given an inch', and that makes them want the next best thing... a mile. Both approaches have ups and downs.


One day at a time, right? At this point, I hope I/we are doing the best thing we can do, given the information we have and the situation at hand. Sometimes that seems so clear.

Thanks again for all of the thoughtful replies and support.  If I can ever help anyone here I would be glad to pm or to chat here.

Ok - Have to run for now!

SF

[Meh]

There is just nothing but nothing but nothing. It's about learning to exist in this big grey nothing of a relationship, and to be ok with it.

There is an absolute VOIDness. Thank you for what you wrote.