New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff

[Meh]

I already have a slip of paper, I took it to church with me and prayed about it, feeling it out to see if I should even be focusing on something like this and I think yes I should allow space in my life for this possibility . All it says is careful, thoughtful, kind, generous, understanding, faithful. 5 descriptions--I wanted to leave a lot of room for a real person instead of an ideal

When I was younger there was no space in my life for the other and I was not brave enough to look at my own emotions that came up. I was terrified of men when I was younger. I could not handle somebody getting close to me. Honestly I could not handle intimacy and I don't even specifically mean like sexual intimacy...I mean like emotional intimacy I could not handle other's strong emotions I don't know why. Maybe its a nar-trait or something. Anywho. I'm admitting to myself the difficulty that I have.

[Meh]

So worried about being lovable and good enough that I forget to ask myself is this person deserving of me? Does this person deserve my time and energy?

How much time and effort is too much/ too little to give in the start?
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So many people talk about the important of honesty their relationships. I mean like everybody says this. IT makes me wonder has every person experienced a lot of dishonesty in the past. Is dishonesty rampant???

Just wondering.

Other question: Are people learning social behavior from each other or are they on some level taking out on others the exact same thing that has been done to themselves. The past couple guys I had flirtations with I noticed that they behaved towards me in the same way that they had described women behaving towards them(the guy). To my mind I think "If someone did this to you and you didn't like it so much, then why are you doing it to me now?".

Is it some attempt to get even, acting out, leveling their own playing field-elevating their own self esteem again or are they just acting out a social behavior that they have learned. I wonder.

[sKePTiKal]

Thanks Boat - I do think you're diving right down to the pearl - the straight route.

So I just wanna respond on one thing right now. That is the perception you've stated that "normal" people are somehow inherently lovable... and you're not... because to you - it appears so easy and natural for them. "Appears" is the key word, here.

Don't make the mistake of believing what people - couples - show to the outside world as being their honest reality. It's never quite as easy and perfect as it appears. There is a lot of compromise, give and take, loving someone in spite of their unlovable traits. I don't know how many times I've seen "perfect couples" crash & burn in the most spectacular way. And other couples last... together... their whole lives.

Don't make the make the mistake of attributing more goodness or lovableness to others, than you would yourself. The answer to the question of why you're not in a relationship like that, doesn't have anything to do with your inherent lovable self. You're on the right track, asking if someone is a person you want to spend time with; be around. Then, ask... how do you feel when you're around and with them? If you're people watching some day, it might be fun to ask yourself if that person - or that one - is someone you might feel comfortable and happy around... just to try to get an idea of what attracts you; what you "like" in other people.

One of the things that is horribly frustrating and maddening, is that there isn't any recipe that is consistently applicable to any two given people... a one size fits all recommendation or absolute rules... about relationships. I've noticed, that even among the same two people - over time - what "works" in the relationship necessarily changes, too. A relationship - the thing that exists between two people - has a life of it's own and each person contributes to that relationship, nurtures it, collaborates within it... while each person continues to exist as a separate independent, whole person.

Paradox in that, is that it's usually really hard to define what "works", simply because it's always changing; fluid. That's where the "magic" part comes in for me. I don't know what other word works as well as magic... chemistry is close... but it's the combination of two whole people that creates something real between them... than holds them together.

[Meh]

And now we are back to mysticism. 

(just call me smart @ss)

[Meh]

Extention of Ego and Social Status...that is part of dating also. I'm not going to do anything to elevate a mans social status if that is what he is needing. I'm probably not going to boost a guys ego either. I just want somebody who enjoys being with me and doesnt need a lot of ego and social status boosting. IS this unreasonable I ask myself because we are all social beings to degrees. I don't know its cloudy.

I want to feel like it's (us) instead of (all of us). I don't want to feel like I am dating a guys friends and family and co-workers also. ??

IS DATING CONFUSING FOR EVERYBODY?? Is confusion about dating a bad sign? Does confusing ever even out into something that makes sense in a crazy way or does confusion = failure, no relationship is going to occur out of it??

Where is my therapist!!!  

Is it all suppose to feel smooth and like it makes sense? I'm too old to be confused right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.futurescopes.com/finding-date/689/finding-and-dating-men-looking-long-term-relationship-or-marriage

Relationship Advice Articles. I like reading this stuff but it all makes my head spin. If I composed an encylopedia of this stuff and were to study it like a student it wouldn't help it all.
This article says finding a man ready to commit is like finding the Loch Ness Creature. But who even wants the Loch Ness monster?
Is a man worth it? I mean love is worth it yes....but is a man worth it...I think no. --I don't understand this conflict

I don't think I even want somebody ready to commit that would freak me out. I just want love and respect. But if somebody is not ready to commit that probably means they are not ready to love and respect......Eh???
Relationships are not conceptual are they? A person can use the terms love and respect but those ideas whereas (what word)
are just IDEAS mental formations thoughts....I think dating happens outside the realm of thoughts and our minds even though the minds are involved. DATING is a complicated social interaction right!!!! Like negotiating political peace or something, takes charm and smarts and diplomacy and bribes and promises and contracts, treaty, trade of goods. It's like a FULL TIME JOB for the people who can do it right.
I'm just going to try to do the things I like to do.

[sKePTiKal]

Hi Boat - I just got really busy, but I'm going to come back later and respond.

For now: thinking about relationships is always really confusing for me. Feeling is way simpler. Does hubs smell good today? Is there a twinkle in his eyes while he's talking to me, teasing me or suggesting something? Are we on the same wavelength today? Am I listening and really hearing him? Is he really listening to me? That is enough most days. Some days, our relationship is simply an emotional "why not"? and often, for me... these are the best days.

tt: vegetable lollipops!! LOL. Hubs has been experimenting with all kinds of jello shooters (which is weird, because we have a fridge full of them... 'coz no one's in the mood to eat any; I think he just likes playing mad scientist)... and he tried a bloody mary recipe that would make a great marinade... but NOT a jello shooter.

[sKePTiKal]

...but is a man worth it...

Worth what, Boat? I'm curious what downside you anticipate "enduring" for a little love & respect & someone to walk a path through life with you? My guy like magazines, toys, neat things, and is a spectacular bargain hunter/gatherer. Expert in Math. Doesn't leave his clothes laying around the house. CAN be... when he wants to be... just as organized and anal as I can - just differently than myself. Has learned it won't kill him to do the dishes and that "how" their done is way less important to me, than just the fact that someone else besides me does them, sometimes. He defers to me quite a bit on normal day to day decisions, when I'd like him to make some of them. He is an attention-dependent glutton and never seems to be satiated or even comfortable being on his own. That's my guy's downside... and trust me, he's worth it!!!!! Even if there are days I want to literally run screaming from the house just to be alone and think my own thoughts for longer than 5 minutes.

Because he loves me; he listens to me and my babble... he helps me think about big complex things that make my head hurt... he really, really likes it when I'm happy & playing with him, instead of by myself... and he's trying to figure out what the magic formula is... and I could overlook a whole bunch of the things that "make me crazy" anyway... when I remember that I don't want him to change or be what he's not; I love him for the big little boy that he is... and that's quite enough to base a relationship on & make up everything else from there:

he loves me and I love him.

Oh... and "A" man... is overly general - I've found they're really not interchangeable, after "trading in" a couple. And there's no one "type" that a girl should look for, either... tall, dark & handsome can be extremely N and a vile, demanding perfectionist person to live with.

I'm not saying that reading all the dating books and thinking about this topic is a waste of time - not at all. I do think a lot of them miss the warm, fuzzy, mystical stuff... the "magic" part of relationships a lot of times. What they do really well though, is provide a whole lot of information about how other people think about relationships and dating; what's important to these other people... and when our FOOs did very little to model how men/women interact in a healthy fashion... when all we learned was what we didn't like; or what was wrong... we need some way to learn the "social" conventions and values and ways of thinking about this.

Then: evaluate, try on, experiment, sort & toss that doesn't work for you... keep what does.

May the arrows of Cupid fly true... and connect you to a "man" who doesn't fit any of your expectations... and that you don't WANT to live without.

[Meh]

Thank ya P.
I liked reading the story of you and your husband. How and where did you guys meet?

...but is a man worth it...

Worth what you ask? Well P that is a very good question, I never quite looked at it from that angle before.

I suppose I anticipate a few negative things. Mainly because I have never had a really good relationship with somebody only occassional lighthearted fun flights of fancy that usually prove that the guy is pretty slutty etc. the player thing.

I guess I feel that maybe I have to pretend that I like watching football, have interest in dirt bikes and wrestling as a compromise and I may need to attempt to wear high heels even though I never do. Etc. Also more seriously some relationships morph into something mean spirited, heartless.

[sKePTiKal]

Yes, there are lots of stories of relationships gone bad. I wonder how many stories are out there about the good ones?

See my post above about relationships NOT being a transaction kind of thing... if you have to be anything except you, to have the relationship... if you have to conform to some "idea"... it's already not going well. Sometimes those feelings come from our own collection of dusty, obsolete ideas... but if it's an explicit requirement to participate in the relationship... sigh... some guys really don't know any better.

Hubs & I aren't a perfect couple, by a long shot. I think we both appreciate a little insecurity... danger... excitement so we make-believe it's there and make jokes about how I'm gonna divorce him because of his stacks of magazines and clutter-kingdom garage. But we talk, plan, compromise and share just about everything that the other one is going through... and we get in each other's way, we babysit each other needlessly, we constantly try to improve the other... and irritate the other no end! It was a huge breakthrough for me, when I finally learned that we could be mad as hell at each other... and it wasn't the end of the relationship. We weren't happy... but neither of us was going anywhere either.

The relationship can grow, flex, bend... adapt to life-crap... and while neither one of us has a strong history of "commitment" in the ideal sense, we don't have any desire to go anywhere else, either. In the practical sense... we just like being together and taking care of each other. Not an awful basis for a relationship, right? No mushy, mucky, icky stuff... stuff no real people can live up to all the time.

A little romantic mush from time to time might not be a bad thing tho....

[Meh]

Alright, I feel that I've made this thread all about me, going to stop on this thread now. It was just a hot topic for me.

[sKePTiKal]

Well, I don't mind Boat. Your questions, ideas etc help me think things through too. And your opinions are refreshing and interesting.  I've heard my own so long I forget to question them, sometimes... and they're boringly wrong a lot, too. I just can't see that until I get it "out" somewhere... and sometimes, someone will come along and point the obvious thing I've been ignoring or blind to...

I mean, this is a big life "issue" for a lot of us... because of what we've been through. And there are lots & lots & lots of different issues within the one topic... only lots of different people can bring those up.

[Meh]

Well I think I'm going through a mini crash course on my "romantic" gunk. Today I'm finding out that trust is a big issue. It is for a lot of people I guess. I mean it's sort of a no-brainer but now I am feeling how trust is a big deal not just thinking it. I'm glad I'm going through whatever this is--intense churning of beliefs/feelings/habits/--because I feel that I'm starting to get something.

One thing I am noticing is that people like us tend to be more self-reflective and maybe even more honest with ourselves compared with people who consider themselves to be "normal" because if you think you're normal then why ever try to improve yourself. I'm starting to find aspects of myself that I value and admire in contrast to some of the people I meet in the dating scene.

[Hopalong]

Boat, you are a very dear duck (and I think now and then I type Bones, who is also a dear duck, when I mean Boat, but I have faith y'all will ignore the senility...)

I loved reading this:

I'm starting to find aspects of myself that I value and admire in contrast to

Except I'd chop of the last 3 words and really concentrate on thinking about this REGARDLESS...

I'm starting to find aspects of myself that I value and admire

in contrast to

Hope that made sense,

Hops

[Meh]

Yes makes perfect sense.

[sKePTiKal]

Hey Boat!

I just tripped over a big, giant scientific/psych "effect"... it was right in front of me, all the time. Actually, in a magazine on losing weight... but before I dive right in, gonna do some reading - research... make sure I think I understand the connections between awful parents and the effect... then I'll be back. Think it goes right here in this thread...

called the "what the hell effect" -- yes, that's it's technical name!!!!!

Thought you'd like this one...