Author Topic: Revenge Fantasies?  (Read 5147 times)

KayZee

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Revenge Fantasies?
« on: December 07, 2011, 03:57:50 PM »
Hi everyone,
  
So, sometimes I feel like I'm side-stepping my anger for my NM.  Like, I just won't let myself go to the Rage-place.  And in the rare instances when do, I immediately feel guilty.  I tell myself it's a waste of time, I ought to go back to trying to find forgiveness for my NM, accept her illness and her emotional limitations.  

But anger is valid.  It's cathartic.  It's part of the grieving process.

To that end, someone suggested I ask myself--as a kind of emotional exercise--what I would do to get back at NM if I could?  But I'm struggling.for answers.  (Aside from, maybe, slipping my NM some mild-altering substance that would screw with her perceptions/sense of reality as much as she has always messed with mine.)

At any rate, knowing that everyone on this forum is much too thoughtful, compassionate and caring to ever carry out some sort of wicket plot...I wondered, do you ever fantasize about getting back at the N's in your life?  If so, how do you see yourself doing it?

hope this question isn't too wicked,
K


KayZee

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Re: Revenge Fantasies?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2011, 08:58:43 PM »
Hi Freshwater,

Quote
I'd rather see them removed, painlessly, from the planet.
  I love this!

I'm so glad to hear you're not too attached/embroiled.  It gives me hope.

I have to admit, there are still times when I WISH they wanted to change/were capable of it.  Occasionally, I fantasize about sweeping into mom and dad's childhoods and rescuing them from their own dysfunctional FOOs and the abuses they suffered as kids, thereby making them healthy enough/sane enough to choose a partner that they really enjoy not just someone who reminds them of their nasty parents.  But then, if that were possible, I wouldn't be here. 

Kay

finding peace

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Re: Revenge Fantasies?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2011, 01:02:53 AM »
Hi Kay,

You ask provocative questions that keep my mind percolating – I love this (thank you!).

I used to go through scenario through scenario through scenario about how I could get even (or even break-even).

I had so much rage against them – I call it the black rage.

In many ways the rage I felt was a catharsis in and of itself – it allowed me to realize that I was wronged.

Some I even acted out on – but even though I wrapped them up in the cellophane of their own making (tied them up in their own words) – they didn’t (deliberately) get it and it backfired (again I was the difficult one).

But, to get even – it pulls me into their game, and ultimately, it makes me them (IMO).

I don’t want to be them.  Ever.

I have come to the point where I actually feel sorry for them.

They are so wrapped up in their own identities, they cannot fathom that someone might be different, and especially, that is ok to be different.

And to fight that is futile.

There definitely used to be a part of me that wanted them to feel the pain that I did.

Maybe it is idealistic, but I think they do feel that pain.  Not at a conscious level by any means (but it is what I think drives them).

But I will not allow me to become them, and it is a slippery slope.

A slope I bypass, because I don’t want to be who they are.

If that makes any sense?

Love to you,
Peace
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BonesMS

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Re: Revenge Fantasies?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2011, 07:18:39 AM »
I've had some fantasies....e.g. dropping acid on NWomb-Donor to change her perception of reality.  Then, the more I thought that through, realized that her perceptions were so already skewed that she would never notice the difference.

My perception of N's are that they are like The Borg, sweeping through various quadrants in their Cubes, chanting:  "We are The Borg!  You will be assimilated!  Resistance is futile!"

Reminds me to put as much distance as possible between me and them!

Bones
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sKePTiKal

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Re: Revenge Fantasies?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2011, 09:21:03 AM »
Kay, my T actually recommended that I imagine a room where I could fully express my anger/rage. A place where I myself would be safe doing this. So I did a little interior design visualization... and began to feel myself in the space... then she suggested I think about who I wanted to put in the room with me and what did I want to do to them?? Just like in video games, weapons magically appeared in my hands... all the right words showed up coherently in my brain and came out of my mouth...

But I didn't want to hurt anyone. I just wanted to tie them up, duct tape their mouth and force them to listen to ME for a change. Turns out I had years worth of anger/rage/hurt to process out. Most of it in journals... but a lot of it, here too. We have PERMISSION to be angry (without guilt)... but it doesn't feel normal, until we've practiced it enough. You're right - it is a step along the healing path... everyone gets there in their own time, their own way. Everyone eventually gets done with that... and moves on. A good bit of my actual healing... was simply learning that I was allowed to be angry, to know why I was angry, who I was angry at... that anger, in itself, didn't make me a bad person... and that I didn't need to fear (and therefore stuff, deny, or turn my anger against myself) this one emotion getting "out of control".

Oh yes, and I learned that there were lots of other emotions to feel, too.   ;)
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JustKathy

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Re: Revenge Fantasies?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2011, 05:26:59 PM »
I'd love to get some revenge, but I never really think about it, probably because I know there really isn't any kind of revenge that would satisfy me. Nothing, not even NM's death, can undo the damage that she's inflicted. Nothing will give me my life back, make me normal inside, take away my insecurities and pain, the nightmares I still have of her tormenting me in high school, and the worst, a lifetime of family members believing that she was the perfect mother, and that there was something wrong with ME.

I suppose the only revenge that would make me happy would be for everyone to somehow learn the truth. For all of my aunts, uncles, cousins to learn about the horrible things she did to me. To also learn that my Co-Father, who they all adore, enabled her. I want someone to believe me. Sometimes I do wish for her death, but not as revenge, more as a way of gaining freedom. Otherwise, I don't see death or injury as being satisfying to anyone but her. She would, after all, get attention from it.

I suppose not letting her get to me, or at least not letting her KNOW that she 's getting to me ... that's the only real revenge I can get.

teartracks

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Re: Revenge Fantasies?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2011, 11:09:21 PM »




Quote
dropping acid

My mind went back to the 70's when people used the phrase 'dropped acid'.  I think you meant that you'd like to give her a bath in acid?  Or were you thinking you'd spike her drink? 

tt

BonesMS

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Re: Revenge Fantasies?
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2011, 09:09:11 AM »




Quote
dropping acid

My mind went back to the 70's when people used the phrase 'dropped acid'.  I think you meant that you'd like to give her a bath in acid?  Or were you thinking you'd spike her drink? 

tt

Hey, TT.

I was thinking in the 70's term regarding LSD.  Unfortunately, I don't think the N's would notice the difference.

Bones
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sKePTiKal

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Re: Revenge Fantasies?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2011, 08:42:01 AM »
I dunno Bones.... I think acid might be a good "shock therapy" for Ns...
if for no other reason than the fact that for the duration of the drug's effect...

a.) they would no longer be in "control" of "reality"...
b.) because of A... they would no longer believe in their ability to control other people

and then there's the 50-50 chance that their brains would be re-wired for the duration of the "trip" in such a way that they'd feel at one with the universe, feel empathy for other people, and not be the only person whose feelings "mattered"... and actually remember this after "coming down".

On the other hand... it could also make them even more N after, because of that same experience.
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JustKathy

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Re: Revenge Fantasies?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2011, 09:34:27 PM »
Quote
and then there's the 50-50 chance that their brains would be re-wired for the duration of the "trip" in such a way that they'd feel at one with the universe, feel empathy for other people, and not be the only person whose feelings "mattered"

Okay, this is REALLY interesting. Definitely got me thinking. I wonder if there is any documentation of Ns taking hallucinogenic drugs, and how they reacted? Can mental illness be temporary halted, or are their brains so hard wired that the drug would simply bring out other N qualities? Somewhere there must be someone who has an N parent that took opiates or other mind altering drugs for a legitimate medical condition. Anyone have any experience with this?

This may sound utterly sadistic of me, but I'm curious, IF my mother really does have cancer, and ends up on a morphine drip at the end, will she out herself as an N on her death bed? The thought of it just gives me the giggles. I know she fantasizes about her Oscar winning death scene, with everyone gathered around the dying queen, fanning her with palm frawns, laying gold at her feet. What if her death scene turns out to be her babbling hatred and ugliness and outing her evilness right before she goes out. Now THAT is a nice revenge fantasy.

Hopalong

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Re: Revenge Fantasies?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2011, 09:23:32 AM »
Hi KayZee,
I saw a movie last night (on Netflix), called Buck...and recommend it for you.

(A bit off topic but maybe sorta not...)
It won Sundance awards etc.

It's beautiful and relates to some of what you've been through.

Hops
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KayZee

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Re: Revenge Fantasies?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2011, 09:53:47 AM »
Hi Everybody,

I'm so sorry I haven't responded sooner.  I picked up another daycare flu/sinus and chest infection.  Torture.

At any rate, Kathy, I related to the following tenfold:

Quote
I'd love to get some revenge, but I never really think about it, probably because I know there really isn't any kind of revenge that would satisfy me. Nothing, not even NM's death, can undo the damage that she's inflicted. Nothing will give me my life back, make me normal inside, take away my insecurities and pain, the nightmares I still have of her tormenting me in high school, and the worst, a lifetime of family members believing that she was the perfect mother, and that there was something wrong with ME.

You're so very very wise.  Even if Ns were capable of change (they're not) and even if every other pawn in their evil empire saw the light, we'd still have to deal with the backlog of bad memories and emotional pain.  There's no changing that, no getting around it.  And I suppose revenge seems quite pointless to a lot of us because we suspect that it really wouldn't make up for the past. 

That said, you're so strong and insightful and self-aware.  I don't doubt that--with a little more time to grieve--you will find strength, security and an increased feeling of control, power, agency.  I don't think you ought to focus on feeling "normal" inside.  Because what you will have (what you already have) is more powerful than "normal:" what you've been through has given you a level of insight and empathy that is extremely rare.  I don't want to say abuse is a gift because no one should ever have to suffer abuse, especially someone as lovely as you.  But I strongly believe that some of the best healers (like therapists) or creative folks (musicians, writers, artists) have had trauma; it's what gives them such strong intuition and enables them to connect with other people on such a deep level.

Hops, Thank you so much for the recommendation.  I will definitely check out Buck.  I just went to the film's website (http://buckthefilm.com/) and was incredibly moved.  I love the tagline: "There's no wisdom worth having that isn't hard won."  And the line in the trailer...something like: "Vulnerability is what makes you great.  And "a lot of people who are good at this are tortured souls."

Bones, it's funny, my revenge fantasies always go to LSD too.  I'm not sure why the idea of spiking my mother's food/drink is so appealing.  Probably because she used to do the same to me when I was little.

P.R. and Kathy, re: the below, if either of you come across any writing about mental illness and hallucinogenics, will you send it my way?  I find the below ideas fascinating.  Back when we were first dating, DH used to mischievously say that he'd love to spike my NM's coffee with the drug ecstasy, just to make her huggy, affectionate, nice to be around.  But then, he said, if NM took ecstasy, she probably wouldn't feel any huge swells of love for anyone else, she'd just walk around rambling about how much everyone else loves HER.  Funny and sad and telling.  He said all this long before we ever realized that she probably had NPD.

Quote
Okay, this is REALLY interesting. Definitely got me thinking. I wonder if there is any documentation of Ns taking hallucinogenic drugs, and how they reacted? Can mental illness be temporary halted, or are their brains so hard wired that the drug would simply bring out other N qualities? Somewhere there must be someone who has an N parent that took opiates or other mind altering drugs for a legitimate medical condition. Anyone have any experience with this?

Anyway, I hope everyone has a wonderful, relaxing weekend.
sending lots of love your way, Kay

sKePTiKal

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Re: Revenge Fantasies?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2011, 10:53:11 AM »
I think the chances for even a temporary spontaneous "healing" of N are probably slim and none. I was probably doing a little wishful thinking in my flight of fantasy, there.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Revenge Fantasies?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2011, 06:13:01 PM »
don't spike the eggnog

watch the movie (if you have Netflix streaming, it's free...)

eat soup

xo

Hops
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Redhead Erin

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Re: Revenge Fantasies?
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2011, 08:48:55 PM »
I have heard that there is a very effective type of therapy that is used on violent sex offenders and other violent criminals.  Somehow the therapist gets the offender to get in the emotional space of the victim.  The therapy is considered successful (or at least getting somewhere) when the perp breaks down and realizes what it must have been for the victim, being victimized.

I would send her to that therapy.

For. As. Long. As. It. Takes.