Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: October on November 07, 2006, 04:03:19 AM
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I have been on a few threads lately which I have tried to contribute to, but which have rapidly become far deeper than I can deal with, in terms both of intellectual content and emotional content.
I know everyone here wants healing and wants it FAST, but I do not see that it has to be such hard work, nor indeed that such hard work is actually the way to go.
What heals me is not great long posts about the finer points of anything. What heals me is being with people who understand my pain, because they have had pain of their own, and who can laugh or cry with me. I am very happy if others can discuss finer details and go deeper than I am able to, but this is not the only way, and it may not even be the best way for many of us. But where I see that someone has grasped one aspect, and then wants to share it, I often also see more than a shade of superiority also creeping in, and more than a little lecturing to us lesser mortals about our failure to grasp what the other thinks they have grasped.
If anyone has found any issue worth resolving, why not talk about yourself, and how this worked, rather than giving theory only?
So, just my twopennorth about keeping it real, and about us, rather than disconnected, and about theory.
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Hi October
A lot of people here are talking and thinking about Karpman dynamics and pattern recognition, about triangulation, and cycles of abuse, and other issues, because of such long posts. A lot of people have applied these concepts to things that have happened to them, or things they have discovered that they do themselves, and been able to see and do and recognize things that they hadn't before.
Not because the posters are some kind of geniuses, but because the ideas being posted are hard to come across, and aren't often discussed in the press and on TV. So when they appear, there's an 'aha'! moment and people can use the concepts immediately.
The fact that these ideas aren't highly visible and aren't often discussed out in the mainstream helps to keep people in the dark about things that contribute significantly to recovery. Such things are very visible and frequently discussed in ACOA groups and other places. People bring them here to share what has helped them, in the hope that it will help others.
There is always the option to leave these posts unread, always the option to refrain from responding. There is a saying in ACOA and in AA: Take what helps you, and leave the rest. To try to deprive others of things that have helped them, substantially and materially, simply because you have no interest in it or don't find the pace of presentation comfortable, is like saying that nobody should have access to college preparatory courses because you personally do not intend to go to college. Your choice is your choice, and you are free to choose, but not to limit others' options.
I'm sorry these things don't help you, but as long as they help others - and they do - I will be continuing to post here, and I hope that others who share similarly will continue to do so as well.
In terms of being able to share pain, when I have shared mine, have I received a supportive response here? Have people here who have tried to hurt me acknowledged my pain, considered their part in it, and made any effort to make amends? Not yet, although I've seen rationalization, attack, and gang-style bullying here aplenty [and I am reasonably certain that some of the latter is being attempted right now].
And given the fact that we are all here because important people in our lives have refused to acknowledge our pain, consider their part in it, and make any effort to make amends, and may even have retaliated against us when we tried to get them to consider it, even enlisting other family members to help in bullying us -- I think it's important for this pattern to be seen.
What we do not hand back, we hand on, and that very thing is happening right here, right now.
Recognizing these things for what they are isn't lecturing or superior, it's a necessary part of learning to see through the smoke and mirrors in order to hold onto health when dysfunctional responses threaten to overwhelm it. Pointing them out when I see and experience them isn't lecturing or superiority either. It's saying: this is what it looks like, learn the signs, learn to recognize this when it happens to you.
In cyberspace, nothing ever happens in isolation.What is said here doesn't vanish into the air, it leaves a trace, it can be examined. There are witnesses to every event. Onlookers can learn and see, even if and when the participants cannot. And sometimes, if the participants come back later, they can see in the cold light of morning what they could not see in the heat of their emotions. Without having to wonder what they really said, and what the other really said, because it's all there in print.
Sharing what you have learned isn't lecturing or superiority, unless it is lecturing and superior to share water with people on a desert crossing. Hinting that you know things - hinting that you can see what others do not, and using that as a means of putting them down - holding onto information and refusing to share it, or sharing it only in jargon and buzzwords to deliberately prevent understanding; that[/b] is lecturing and superior, and nobody is doing that here.
I hope that I will be willing to share whatever I have learned, in clear words and in whatever depth is necessary to do justice to the concepts, whenever it can do some good, as long as I am capable of sharing it.
With regard to the business of trying to get people to acknowledge their part in causing pain: just for the record, I suspect this is a lost cause. It looks like a no-win situation; pointing out the behavior just causes defensiveness and intensifies the attacking impulse, but the behavior will continue unless it's pointed out.
I would long ago have stopped attempting to communicate with certain people here, if we were in realspace. But in realspace, there are conversations, and physical distance, rooms and tables and chairs, doors that can be closed. It's easy to see when someone is being intrusive, or disruptive, or heckling. On a message board, there aren't conversations. It's all-comers, all the time. So people from whom I would long ago have politely but firmly disengaged in realspace keep coming back around, and often even demand acknowledgement [just imagine for two seconds what that would look like in a realspace conversation!]. Confrontation is unavoidable in such situations. It's about the only option that exists for setting a boundary.
I have closed the doors that I can close here, by blocking PMs from the people with whom these problems seem unresolvable. They are free to do likewise with me, and to refrain from reading and replying to my posts on the board.
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You'll have to answer that for yourself, Portia.
I have provided ample information, and have no interest in further head games with you.
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Hi October,
For me, in some of the windy posts, so many"you" messages and I think sometimes an overuse of the presumptive "we" make it harder to appreciate the offer of "special" information. Anybody who Googles psychology subjects will run into most of these. To me, though I know many are enthusiastic about new information, essays are impersonal, not a conversation. I'd rather be alerted here to a link that someone has posted on What Helps. Or, if someone would like to offer a long explanation of a concept, I'd rather they did that on What Helps, so here we could return to talking to each other about our lives, offering and seeking support.
It's always healthy to ask for what we want, ask a person to consider another point of view, or ask a person to answer a question. Courtesy and maturity can't be imposed, though, darn it. :
We can't control a reply, or do anything about passive-aggressive behavior such as snubbing, shunning or the silent treatment. I think the trick is to notice it, and thereafter engage when you want to for your own benefit, while letting go of the outcome. Note the response (or lack of response) pattern and take it at face value. Just keep sowing your seeds whenever you want to, without expectation.
(VERY easy to write but not so easy to put into practice, speaking for myself!) :?
I look forward to talking more with you, October.
hugs,
Hops
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There is a lot of good stuff in this thread...I'm busily copying and pasting.
I have to say that each person that has posted thus far has contributed to increasing my personal knowledge. thanks!
bean
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(((Bean)))
It's great you benefit from the different ways we have here. :) Preferences are just that. Not survival requirements. (I remember a T talking to me once, asking me to think hard about the difference between preference and need. Changing my self-talk to preference as often as possible really makes me feel better, generally.)
(((Portia)))
I love: Ask for what you want and let go of the outcome.
It's helped me a lot.
Particularly when I slip into trying to control situations or people. Saying that to myself highlights the boundary between what is my responsibility or what's in my control, and what's not. (It also sort of leads me into the next thought, which is the Victor Frankl thing: If I don't get what I want, what is the worst that could happen, and what choices would I have then? Sometimes I resist it, but when I ask that, I find there's always a choice I can make.) Those linked thoughts go together in a way that strengthens my sense of self. Not sure exactly how, but it's calming. It's steadying. Makes me feel stronger.
love,
Hops
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Ain't voted yet, been lolling around.
I'm going soon. Sometimes bothers me that NMom and I have always voted the opposite ticket, so I tend to think of my vote as valuable only in that it cancels hers (or vice versa)!
Later this afternoon I'm going to a "phone party" to call undecided voters and urge them to get to the polls.
More later, signing off for now.
Hops
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"I'd rather ..." is just what I'd prefer. I don't expect to "get my way", Jac. Explaining a preference doesn't equal giving an order. I don't expect anybody to do any more than read and that only if they want to. Honest.
I know I'm also sensitive to some of the essay-ishl posts for emotional reasons...my mother's main form of guiding me was to literally lecture me until my head spun and I could barely breathe. Year and year I was so flooded with her opinions I could barely form m own. She "bore down" with information and opinion, it was a flood. So I'm sure that also figures into my occasional resistence here. I don't think it's unhealthy, though it might be annoying.
That's nothing to do with you, though, and you are completely right, you should keep posting in whatever way makes sense to you. As should everyone.
I think it's okay for me to comment though. I can say I'd like it better this way or that way. That doesn't mean anybody needs to agree with me. I love the freedom of the board, An opinion, even an annoying one, isn't an order...
(That said, Jac, I'll give some serious thought whether there's any need for me to repeat this...I know I mentioned it a while back. If it's triggering a lot of pain for you, I don't want to do that.)
telling me to shut up
I ain't. Don't want you to shut up at all, Jac. Sorry I've annoyed you so.
When I examine my halo, it's got dents, heavy tarnish, and rust spots.
I'll jam it back on my head and keep on learning, okay?
Hops
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You can't control how I express myself or how I choose to express my experience in regards to abuse, voicelessness or what have you.
I don't want to, Jac.
Jac, I'm sorry. You're having trouble believing me. I really hit a nerve and I apologize for hurting you, not if I hurt you.
I can understand why it was divisive for me to complain about "essays"...and I quit.
I apologize to you, Jac.
Hops
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Portia,
As in Accept the results, but do not anticipate the results :)
Love, Beth
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To all my friends, love and gratitude.
To all those whose egos have been damaged, sorry about that, but it is bound to happen from time to time. Shame so many people are taking my honest expression of my own personal limitations personally. Rather bizarre to find people offended by my apparent inability to worship at their feet, or keep a serious topic serious, but there you go.
There is a fine line between investigating issues in order to achieve personal growth, and share the path to that growth with others, and the alternative, which is being as Moses. So, if I could suggest a theme for the next thesis from Mount Sinai, humility might be interesting, and projection seems long overdue some consideration, given what I have seen in some of the responses on here.
And anyone feeling angry is choosing that, so they can have that particular monkey back. I could choose that myself, if I had the energy, but I don't, so I will laugh instead. Mainly at what people are rebuking me for saying, which is often completely different from what I actually said. Maybe some of you might care to revisit my post, without the defensiveness, and see that it is actually all about me, and not about you. Or does that too appear narcissistic, to those who are projecting? Frankly, my dears, I don't give a damn. Just 'cos you feel it, doesn't make it true.
<October takes match, sets fire to her bridges, and warms her hands at the blaze>
Live long and prosper, all.
Au revoir.
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Here comes the fireboat, sending huge lovely arcs of salty spray, drenching October's flaming raft, singing jolly sea shanties...
Please reconsider tomorrow if you can, October. Meanwhile, I can't see through the spray but I'm chugging this fireboat anyhow.
I would miss you. :(
I know we all would.
Hops
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Here comes the fireboat, sending huge lovely arcs of salty spray, drenching October's flaming raft, singing jolly sea shanties...
Please reconsider tomorrow if you can, October. Meanwhile, I can't see through the spray but I'm chugging this fireboart anyhow.
I would miss you. :(
I know we all would.
Hops
Thanks for the lifebelt, Hops. I love you too.
Today is very bad. I have heard that my therapy is not going to happen for another three months.
That is not anyone's problem but mine, but I am very alone tonight. Everyone has gone, and the earth is at a great distance. Fortunately for me, I know that just because it feels that way, doesn't make it real.
And people are angry with me for asking, can't we keep this real?
What is so challenging to people's ego defences to request that we keep it grounded and not theoretical? That is not a blanket condemnation of every post, and every poster. What language am I speaking in, that the words start this end meaning one thing, and yet turn into something else when read elsewhere, and generate such animosity?
This is not unusual. I have a gift for finding people's Achilles' heel, without even knowing it, and generating disproportionate responses. Just lucky, I guess. :?
Beyond me at present. Taking a sabbatical, to go temporarily insane.
((((((((((Hops))))))))))
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hi October,
ick, that is a real problem, not being able to see your therapist for three months? Por que? If I may ask?
(((((((((((((((((October))))))))))))))))))
real pain, real fire, real burns, real scary, real real real...sometimes I prefer less reality, you?
bean
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Hi, October
What language am I speaking in, that the words start this end meaning one thing, and yet turn into something else when read elsewhere, and generate such animosity?
This is not unusual. I have a gift for finding people's Achilles' heel, without even knowing it, and generating disproportionate responses. Just lucky, I guess. Confused
We called it Post Office in High School, but it was fun back then. :lol: I empathize with your frustration at being misunderstood. It happens to me ALL the time. It appears to me that some people who claim to allow freedoms to others, usually have stipulations that restrict those freedoms to their own personal value system.
I think I understood what you originally meant. Theory can go pretty far "out there" and I am certainly one to get way too caught up in my head and forget to attach my heart and bring it all back to reality for some true healing. Theory is wonderful in its place. The only way to learn, reach out, grasp at ideas, changes, etc. But I understand your "impatience" (my word) with the amount of theorizing that takes place here sometimes.
It is my feeling that we cannot always be in that emotional place where the real pain is, we have to move away in order to be rational about it all.
So, maybe it really DOES have to be that hard sometimes, for some people.
IMHO :)
thank you for your opinion
~dragonsamm~
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Jac,
What gives you reason to believe that some people don't feel the same frustration that others feel?? We ARE all here for the same reasons, we ALL feel the same kinds of feelings. We are all human, after all.
Which includes making mistakes, misunderstanding (the English language is woefully inadequate), and being less than what others may need us to be sometimes.
I'm sorry you have received less than what you need.
"I'd like to buy the world a Coke....." (old Coca-cola commercial lyrics)
~dragonsamm~
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Jac
No, I wasn't baiting you. I had a strong feeling that you had some anger going on over some of the responses here. Maybe it's my own filters from having had a raging parent (one does tend to become ultra-sensitive to hositility--real or perceived). I thought I saw some attempt on your part to control someone else's right to speak here, just because you didn't agree with it.
I learned to never trust an angry person to tell you the truth, so I felt it impossible to directly ask you if you were angry. I guess I was trying to diffuse what I saw as a conflict.
I apologize if my perception was inaccurate.
I don't have the time or energy to waste time baiting and playing games with people. Especially here, where I have found so much support.
so.....friends????
:D
~dragonsamm~
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Knowledge is power. You can hoard what you have, keep it to yourself, and use it to your own advantage exclusively, or you can share it, give it away, and let anyone who is willing benefit from whatever they can, as much as they can.
When you see things clearly, they're no longer hard. They look totally different from the other side. That's why people share insights and information in AA, ACOA, etc.
Moonlight and others here can explain that a lot better than I can.
And there are plenty of things I haven't 'got' yet, which are still hard for me. Huge numbers of things, some of them surprisingly simple. I do know they won't get easier from being avoided though... and I won't get wiser by avoiding them.
Nobody forces anyone to read anything here.
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Dear Stormy ,
Knowledge is power. You can hoard what you have, keep it to yourself, and use it to your own advantage exclusively, or you can share it, give it away, and let anyone who is willing benefit from whatever they can, as much as they can.
When you see things clearly, they're no longer hard. They look totally different from the other side.
Moonlight and others here can explain that a lot better than I can.
I do not know I can say it better.Storm, When on the other side of the pain
(THE PAIN WHEN YOU THINK SOMEONE ELSE CAN HURT YOU) IS THIS WHAT YOU MEAN?????????
You just understand and even can get to a point when you do not have to protect yourself or feel any loss.
After that point it becomes a point of "self realization"etc
Storm, You are one ever watchful and can see the change even when a person appears the same .And have given all thx. 8)
Its like the chunk just falls off it just does kinda hard to explain.
I cried this morning with overwhelming love compassion I do try so hard to kick the ego to the curb
but it keeps jumping in and wants to drive the car. :lol:
HOW TO BECOME You must want it bad enough to take what comes along with understanding truth.
You must be brave enough to really have a look .
I have taken a peek its scary but truth is all I can stand to live with.
Hoping my words will be understood .
There is a path to Truth .
From ignorance to relative knowledge .
From relative knowledge to an awareness of the limitation of such knowledge and finally
And finally we pass from that which we recognize associated intelligence to a Reality of Being.
THIS IS A QUOTE FROM A MAN NAMED RICHARD ROSE
or as the song goes "growing up is hard to do"
with so much love to you
MoonLight
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truth is all I can stand to live with.
beautiful, moon... thanks so much. you explain in a way i never could.
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P.S
When you get a break through You are becoming ...................
You, me, self all are becoming .
Having a break through means calmness feeling safe and all these different thinking attitudes and it makes a huge difference. :D
These are new to me and I am free now to explore even more.
Having gratitude and kindness and a to have sense of awe of the universe is a good thing .Because on the other other side maybe
we do not have the opportunity for these lessons however painful they appear .
Having curiosity and to challenge everything you think and see what is right for you .
Also I need to go pick up my moonlet and her best friend at school it's Friday.
They want to go to the mall............. :shock:
moon
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Maybe the work is as hard as it needs to be .
Sometimes insights seem accidental .
Learning from fire and water There is no no resistance and there is acceptance and "I" have stepped aside .
Now my real spiritual work begins its A BEAUTIFUL DAY and its now again........................
much love and more :D
m
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Moon,
You are so PITHY.
Maybe the work is as hard as it needs to be .
:D
(((())))
Hops
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Hops
Sadly I find I am abounding in PITH up to my neck in PITH .
HONESTLY MY PITHY EGO DOES WANT TO IMPRESS :oops:
ALSO am considering SELF a possible pompous A** bUT my intent is good I am trying to kick ego to the curb .
Hoping to shrink my fathead.
love to you always
Beside the pith is a humble soul
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Here's one for ya from my Google homepage (cool tool!), I added Buddhist Thought of the Day:
Of the many earnest, and how earnest, people we may observe reading, attending lectures, studying and practicing disciplines, devoting their energies to the attainment of a liberation which is by definition unattainable, how many are not striving via the ego-concept which is itself the only barrier between what they think they are and that which they wish to become but always have been and always will be? - Why Lazurus Laughed by Wei Wu Wei
(((Moooooooon))) :)
Hops
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"I" JUST DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING PERSONALLY :shock: Sitting under imagined tree dang that apple
DEAREST HOPS
Love WEI WU WEI AKA Terence Grey
Favorite book he wrote : Fingers Pointing toward the moon :lol:
Wei wu wei was Friends with Mr Richard Rose 8) ZEN DUDES
luv
m
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oh yes Hops the ATTACHMENT to attainment of enlighten ment or liberation yes I see DUH :shock:
thx
man oh man where did I drop my enlightenment nope its not in the closet ??????????? :D
not under the bed .................................................................... :lol:
oops now where did I put it I forgot oh well infinity is another day .
oh well those really smart zen dudes maybe they know or its nothing and all . 8)
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HOPS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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I don't aim for enlightenment or nirvana but just strength and calm.
Maybe they're the same thing!
I know Buddists have some deep wisdom so I grabbed that quote-thingy so I could get a little by osmosis...reading philosophy is beyond my brain.
Nice to have a philosopher here to give me bits!
Nighty-poo, Moon, you Zenster...
(((((((((Moon))))))
love,
Hops
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Hops ,
Sending that calm and strengh to you .
hugs,
moon
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I actually felt that it was my right to speak that was being controlled and I tried my best to say that.
And yes, I was angry about that. But I always try to be honest, if I can - and I welcome people to talk to me, here and in real space.
So thank's for answering my question - I appreciate it. :)
jac
Your right to speak is non negotiable. It is also beyond anyone's control but your own, like the wind or the rain.
My right to say, I am finding this hard work, because when I hear the theory I also need to hear the connection with humanity, is also non negotiable. And that is what I was saying, in essence.
Anyone and everyone is still free to say what they like, where they like, because my opinion does not constrain anyone's freedom.
But if anyone reads my posts, they have to take the chance that my opinions might make them think about their chosen, free actions.
And if that makes them angry, then that is not my problem. I am sorry if the strength of the reaction distresses anyone, but it is not my responsility. My responsibility is my own reaction, and to keep it calm, temperate and as loving as I can achieve. At the point where I can no longer sustain that, I will take a break, until I can.
Thanks to those who have made non defensive contributions here, and sent PMs. I very much appreciate your support, and your love is what has helped me to return. Not so that I can continue to avoid anything, because I am not in fact an avoidant person, but so that I can find reality in all these words and theories, and find humanity in all the theses. :)
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I'm doing the best I know how at this time in my life, but I know as time goes on I will get better and better - I'm committed to.
I know this is true of you, Jac, and I commend your bravery, your strength and your determination.
I am committed only to survival at present, and cannot actually see beyond that. But maybe somewhere in the future there is recovery for me too. This is not negativity; it is being realistic about what can be done, given the hand of cards I am presently holding. However, I know that others see more than this in me, and have told me so, which is a wonderful thing - recovery is hard to see from the inside.
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flippers smacking...
Hops
(I don't know why I have an inner seal, but I'll go with it...)
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To survive, after being involved with an N
IS RECOVERY!!! :-)
Thanks for that. I would add to it, to laugh after being with an N for any time at all, is recovery. That is what I am doing today. :D
Went to parents today, because of minor crisis. Yb is abroad, and although over 40, manages to have these things happen, to cause turmoil. Anyway, he needs money because his wallet got stolen, and dad rang to ask me to help transfer some cash to him. I said fine, I will be round soon. Then ten minutes later, another call, saying they were going to go down to their own bank to take out some cash. I said, no don't do that, wait for me.
So I went round, made two phone calls and the money was on its way to South America by Western Union, without anyone having to leave the house. And my parents still can't see that the way to achieve money in SA is not to take out money in England. I told them, that is dinosaur thinking; you are adding 20 problems in front of the one you actually have. :D :D :D
And the N connection is that the harder they make the problem, the more credit they get when retelling it, in every gory detail, to anyone who will listen. The last thing an N wants is an easy solution, which is no inconvenience to anyone, and where they cannot get grumpy because they have not encountered bureaucracy or incompetence along the way. :lol:
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Hi October,
The last thing an N wants is an easy solution
Amen to that!!
My N mother often did things in the hard way. I once said to her "don't re-create the wheel" and tried to show her an easier way to do something. That was a big mistake because she launched into her accusatory "you're always so self confident". And I'm thinking to myself: does that mean self confidence is a bad thing?
Of course, I was not self confident and from there on, she would often say to me "don't re-create the wheel".
I think you're right. Ns do things the hard way so that they can complain about it.
dazed
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Hi, I would like to put my penny worth to this, and apologise in advance!!!
A newcomer here, I asked for some advice, and I got it, it was great.
I returned a few times. Tho having read through this thread, not sure if I will bother again.
I tend to find the threads laborious to read through, and frankly a bit high brow for me. I often dont understand them at all. They make me feel that I lack sufficient intelligence to contribute, and seem like, (to me anyway, pos cos I dont tend to stay here long, cos) too much time spent reading through personal bitching sessions between a select few who analyse and overanalyse, and perhaps some who underanalyse.............I really dont know!!!! But its not for me. I appreciated the time spent giving me feedback and help, but wonder how many, like me, come and go, without the time or inclination to read through so many personal messges between old friends/enemies and big long analytical, whats the point of this anyway, type postings.
Sorry folks, but thats more or less, give or take, how I feel. Said as best I can, and already feeling bad about it.
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Dear nickyinstant,
All I can say is "ouch"!
Hey, fine, free speech, that's how you see it; you can go your own way.
But, I think your tone was nasty and judgemental.
In my humble opinion and speaking as a newbie, I think you don't "get" the point of this forum.
To paraphrase WRITE (I believe) in another thread: "some people just don't understand Nism". C'est la vie.
dazed
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Fair nuff, nasty and judgemental is true.
this was the first one i read today, possibly bad luck on my part but i just seem to have stumbled on a few threads lately where I feel that people seem to be getting at one another.
Been trying to avoid conflict my whole life. Makes me very uncomfy, and got my hackles up tonight wen i stumbled on it first thing, I cant see the point in that in a place like this, but I guess it happens.
I read on to other threads, found what I came here for - encouraging words and information, and subsequently I apologise for my nasty and judgemental post.
nic
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Hi Nicky,
I agree with you... it does get to be that way here. I read what I want to read for me... If someone asks for help I respond. You can find people to help and hear you here... But there are those who do like to analyze and pick things apart. I like to do that with literature... with this... occasionally, but mostly I come for a bit of sanity and support. I'm not big on the intricate discussions either... and I don't always understand them.
Keep coming back... if only to read what helps you.
Love, Beth
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hi nic - welcome
maybe it's my ADD, but I can't get through most posts here either!
It's OK, I got over it - if this place have value for you you'll be back too. :wink: I've been here almost a year now and never thought I'd last a week.
hugs,
bean
p.s. hi dazed. welcome too, if I didn't already say "hi"
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BTW, I also suck at dealing with conflict. And reading (and even piping in occasionally) has been okay and even helpful to me at times. Sometimes I feel like I will hyperventilate when I see people are arguing. And then I see they get through it and it's OK... It's been a good lesson for me, but one I am definitely still absorbing
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BTW, I also suck at dealing with conflict. And reading (and even piping in occasionally) has been okay and even helpful to me at times. Sometimes I feel like I will hyperventilate when I see people are arguing. And then I see they get through it and it's OK... It's been a good lesson for me, but one I am definitely still absorbing
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I too have problems with conflict. It provokes anxiety in me. And I also have a tendency towards being blunt and then I have started a conflict, wrecklessly, without meaning to. That's scary too. I have to learn to deal with those issues and have learned that this board is a place to do that. It is hard to learn it but I've seen much progress in my abilities since coming here. Actually learning how to deal with conflict in the 3-D world, which I thought was impossible for me to learn. It takes a long time. But it is worth it. Less anxiety and even a little pride in having started to really learn something that has always been very difficult for me.
PP
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PP,
I picture that going something like this in the future:
PP: Hey, you're stepping on my toes!
Recipient: Gosh, you're blunt (said in disapproving tone).
PP: [Says or thinks to self] that's interesting you see it that way... Hmpppf [walks off and really doesn't care nor bothers to give it another thought]
Just cause someone thinks or calls you blunt, does it mean you are? Even if you are, does it matter?
hugs,
bean
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Well, I can be pretty blunt depending on what kind of mood I'm in. But also, people who are used to the wishy-washy-people-pleasing me think I'm being blunt or difficult when I'm just being firm for once. They don't know how to react when nope really means nope. They liked it much better when I could be steam-rolled. I'm also getting used to saying what I mean even if it isn't the expected or desired for answer. It's coming along, though, and I'm getting more confident.
PP
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Fair nuff, nasty and judgemental is true.
I don't think you were being nasty. You came expecting this to be one thing, and found another. Nothing wrong with saying that. However, if you stick around, maybe you will find that there is a lot more to it than either your expectations or your first impressions.
I sometimes rub people up the wrong way, and sometimes people rub me up the wrong way. That is life. Sometimes things get said that in hindsight should not have been said, but we are all human here, and we are all learning together. We are all hurt one way or another, and like anyone who is hurt, if someone threatens to open an old wound, we are going to resent that, and maybe fight back a little. But that is a kind of reflex action, rather than (I think) a sign of actual animosity or aggravation. People with lots of animosity don't stay here too long, in my experience.
So, welcome, and I hope you find something worthwhile here. And remember the old saying; if you find the perfect church, don't join or you will spoil it. Same goes for support groups. :)
I do not go looking for conflict. But neither do I avoid it if it comes my way. :)