Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on March 13, 2007, 05:37:17 PM
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Friends, nice people, please, give me your thoughts about this. I know I am right but I do not know how my boss is looking at it. The academic grades are untouchable. I respect that. But we also give behavior grades. The students that are extremely disrespectful, I gave them and F in behavior. Four of my students. Because they are failing the standards of behavior. They are very disrespectful. My boss told me I should be more compassionate. I told him that I would do anything he told me to do. He then told me, are you ready to deal with those parents? Then I told him I would do anything you tell me to. Then he said I am not going to tell you what to do. You are a grown woman and have been teaching for six years.
Deep in my heart I really believe that they deserved an F. I know of two that will not complain. I know of one that will not complain. That makes three. There is one that his father is a coach at the school. He is very dishonest, lies constantly, and refuses to do my work. Still his academic work is not that bad. C. But I gave him and F in behavior.
Please, tell me if I did the right thing. I am shaking in my shoes. I need my job. I had the opportunity to change the grades but I thought I had to leave them. I thought I had to. If I changed them I would not feel well, if I did not. which I did not, I am shaking in my shoes.
OK, please, tell me what you think.
Love,
Lupita
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On top, that was not all, I had one that complained that she deserved a 100, she got an A, 90. But she said that she was going to talk to my boss. 15 years old. She is telling me that I do not have any power. That is the mesage tht I hear when a student is telling me that hse is going to talk to my boss. I called her mother and the mom came to school and explained the situation, explain what the child was missing and why she did not get a 100. The mother was content with the A 90, and told me that she would take care of it. Still I feel betrayed, because I trusted a student and for some reason my student turned her back at me. So, I do not know what I did. I am very sad and disappointed.
Somebody tell me something.
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I do not want to stop teaching unless I get a job in research, which i dont know how to get. But I wish I could conquer the teaching, and be a successful teacher. I thought I was a successful teacher since I have so many children and have problems only with a few. But those few take all my attention and make my day very difficult. I dont know what to do. I wanted so much to feel well. it is becoeming impossible. I need peace. need to talk to somebody.
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Are my superiors so blind that they do not see that I do a god job? I am a good teacher. Why do I feel so lonely? I talked to the team leader. She said that they deserved a bad grade. I have to deal with the complains tomorrow. Somebody help me. Why did I leave those grades? I wanted to send a mesage. Hope that the one that receives a mesage is not going to be me. Please, pray for me.
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Maybe give them a D-? Sometimes doing the right thing can come back to haunt you.
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Lupita,
I think you are a very good teacher. You have agonized over this handfull of troubled students. You have worried and beat up yourself trying to figure out a way to get through to them. They did not meet you half way. They did nothing but try to humiliate, disrespect and degrade you. Your boss wants you to be compassionate? Is he kidding me? They will get rewarded for bad behavior?
Your boss should be standing beside you on this. If the parents come then so be it. I would not feel betrayed by the students. They are only acting the way they are allowed by their parents. I would be raising an eyebrow at the parents.
Stand your ground Lupita. If I had kids like the ones you teach you would be giving him a B for straight to BOOT CAMP.
They need a reality check and you just gave it to them.
You can handle the parents Lupita I know you can. You know what is right.
Lupita
Are you afraid you will lose your job if you don't give them a higher grade for behavior?
Love Deb
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Lupita,
You have the evidence to back up your grades. You have stuck to it. Keep your certainty and you will be fine. You are a caring and fine soul. Your students will grow from this experience as well. They know as well as you do what grade they deserve. You are only showing a true and fair evaluation of the behavior you have had to endure and observe as well.
Dandylife
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Lupita - Reading between the lines it seems that these students deserve an F in behavior. I suspect your boss was trying to tell you in veiled words what OC has said. They deserved an F but you deserve to be protected from what giving them an F may bring. But I suspect that because of the abuse you have suffered this became an issue about power. I suspect that because of some of your words, because of my experience and because of what I know about what happens to us when we have been abused early on in our lives. You feel that these disrespectful children are sapping and challenging your power.
They can only sap your power if you let them. Don't let them get you. Use ;your power to focus on the wonderful kids. I know it is easy to say and very difficult to do. But I think you can learn to focus your power anywhere else but on them. You are more powerful than they regardless of how rude they are. You will win this because you are powerful. - I'm right here cheering you on Lupita. You've got a BIG cheering squad and you will win. = your friend - GS
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Lupita,
There's almost no chance those students who are getting the 'F's' for conduct are losing sleep over their bad behavior. I think you should give them the grade they deserve and stop worrying and sleep like a log.
teartracks
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YOU DID THE RIGHT THING LUPITA!
Just remember the deep slow breathing, holding your chin up and your shoulders back.
If you speak to a complaining parent do it with calmmmmmmmmmm.
Confidence.
You ARE the authority in the classroom and you have done those kids a favor by grading them honesty.
If you're shaking in your shoes, go right ahead and shake.
BUT SPEAK THE TRUTH ANYWAY.
You can do this. You ARE doing it!
I am so impressed.
hugs,
Hops
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Dear nice friends, nice human beings, it is so nice to have this board. This is not the first time I get nice words and encouragement here. It is very comforting that I can come here and find support. Thank you for your kind words.
It is very difficult to teach high school. Teenagers are very difficult to deal with. Of course there is a majority of students that are very nice and hard workers. But those few that offer so much defiance of authority, consume so much energy, and cause so much stress to the class and to the teacher.
I hope that I can answer to any question they ask in a wise way. Those parents are known for constantly blaming the teacher for the behavior of their children. They do not understand that the student has passed much more time with their parents and family than they spend with the teacher, and that most likely, the behavior they show has been learned at home.
There is no positive reinforcement for teachers. Guess, there is no positive reinforcement for any job. If they keep you, that is your positive reinforcement.
I trust in God that I am doing the right thing. I will know in the next few days if I have any repercussions for trying to educate my students.
Please, pray for me.
If you have any words that I can use in a parent conference, any sentence that can impact the parents, please, tell me. Thank you for your help, and for taking the time to write and to advise.
So, any ideas, any nice vocabulary for a parent conference that I know is going to be upset, and not taking responsibility. I need to use nice words that convey the true with out offending the parent. I need to make them understand that I dislike the behavior but I love the children. I am willing to help. But I cannot spend all my class convincing them that they have to do the work. We can have more profit of our time together if the students do not offer so much resistance.
Thank you friends. God bless you. I usually go to bet at 9:00 PM but cant sleep.
Love,
Lupita
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I think you said the words you need in your last post. There is no point in giving grades for behavior if they're not honest grades based on the truth. Better they get an F now in school and learn to improve their behavior, or get an F in life later on (so to speak) and not be able to keep a job, have good relationships, etc.
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"X is a very bright young man/woman.
S/he has so much potential, and I truly don't want to see him/her lose the chance to do all s/he can with her life because s/he has not learned to treat other people with respect.
I have given him/her this grade in behavior because I want him/her to understand that attitude has consequences, and because I believe that this may be a wakeup call that will help him/her avoid problems in the future. Whether in college or in the working world.
S/he may not believe it right now, but I really do want the best for ____. I hope you can help him/her try to understand that. Thank you very much for coming to talk to me."
That help?
Sleep well, Lupita, with a clear conscience.
Hops
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Hi Lupita,
I tried to write back this morning, but my computer was having connectivity issues.
I think there are so many things going on here...
The first one I will mention is that I think you are approaching the system as if you were in your home country.The administration does next to nothing to help you out here and will not give you advice, because then it is on your head if you mess up. In America, you are in charge of making the decision... and defending yourself. That is why I had a tough time teaching. My skin isn't thick enough for the criticism and I abhor grovelling to parents who let their kids run wild. The fact is, the parents of the kids who misbehave are going to be your worst parents. So you can decide to do the right thing for you - give the kids the F, and then hold your head up and explain why (I also keep lots of documentation now... you have to). Or you can take the easy way out, give them a fairly bad grade and go on. There is no right answer... just what is right for YOU.
Take care Lupita. Write back and tell us how you are.
Love, Beth
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Hi Lupita,
I tried to write back this morning, but my computer was having connectivity issues.
I think there are so many things going on here...
The first one I will mention is that I think you are approaching the system as if you were in your home country.The administration does next to nothing to help you out here and will not give you advice, because then it is on your head if you mess up. In America, you are in charge of making the decision... and defending yourself. That is why I had a tough time teaching.
My skin isn't thick enough for the criticism and I abhor grovelling to parents who let their kids run wild. The fact is, the parents of the kids who misbehave are going to be your worst parents. So you can decide to do the right thing for you - give the kids the F, and then hold your head up and explain why (I also keep lots of documentation now... you have to). Or you can take the easy way out, give them a fairly bad grade and go on. There is no right answer... just what is right for YOU.
Take care Lupita. Write back and tell us how you are.
Love, Beth
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Thank you thank you Thank you, for your kind words. For you nice heart to empathize with another human being. Thank you. It is very nice to come here and ventilate, and receive consolation, and comfort.
Today the report cards went home. I had the last chance to change grades, but I did not. I prayed all night. I know I did the right thing. Later in the day I found out that two of the Fs were not going to complain because they were expecting something since their children were written up before. And the other two were in deep trouble because they had a very low GPA including the coach's son. Those are almost lost cases, unless the parents do something radical. So, the sports director told me that he did not think that the coach was going to jump on my back. if they do, they will be very weak, since I had a good judgment. So, the only problem left is two Ds to two rude ladies that are future Ns, and will serious attitude problems. If they confront me, the only sin I had is not to call them and tell them of the behavior, because I was intimidated by their past actions. But that is easy, I will apologize, tell them that I am sorry i did not notify them before, but I thought I could handle it and the kids got out of control and that is why they got a D. Also I will tell them that their kids know right and wrong, that they are 18 years old, that they are young adults, that next year they are going to college and they need to apply them selves. I have documentation, and witnesses of their behavior. So, probably they will not give me a big trouble.
Or so I think. I feel a little better today. if they fire me for doing the right thing, then I do not want to work in a Christian school where they protect the bullies. And on top they control my life, I have to go to their church, I cannot have a beer because it is considered a sin, i cannot go to a bar, because id they see me I will lose my job. And if on top of it they protect the bullies, then, please, god help me. I went to the principal's office just to take temperature, asked him how he was and he chatted with me about classroom management and books to read. He was not mad at all. So, I am assuming that he does not expect a problem.
In my same school, a wonderful elementary teacher was fired this week, because an angry mother called all parents and set her up. It is scary. This summer I will think what I should do. Maybe look in a public school. I do not know. Now, the big trouble will start after spring brake because the instigator is in Europe, since half of the school went to Europe and they are coming back after spring brake on the 26th. But the four F were there today and did not do anything.
But, it is wonderful to be able to talk here with all of you. For the first time I feel that I am getting my fair share of attention. it is wonderful.
I love you all.
God bless you.
Lupita
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((((((((((((((((((Lupita))))))))))))))))))))))))
Your strength and courage carried you through! You didn't take the easy way out!!! Good for you!!!
Love, Beth
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Well, hello!!!!!!!! i stoo up for my self. I still have to deal with the instigator who is coming back from Europe after spring brake. She might complain about her D in behavior and her C in academic. But God knows that I did what I thought it was the correct thing to do. I prayed a lot about it. Feel better now. And if something comes out, I will prove that I am helping the students and if a parent is trying to deffend a kid at all costs, the parent is not doing a favor.
I know I did the right thing. God will help me.
God bless you all.
Love,
Lupita
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God is with you Lupita.
You have done the right thing, with courage.
God Bless you.
Leah xx
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Leah!!!!!!!!! Thank you for your kind words. I really needed some encouragement. There is nopositive reinforcement for teachers. They think we are not humans. But we are and need some ecouragement.
Thank you Leah.
Lupita
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Hi Lupita,
I can soooooo understand your situation. I taught in high school and because I was a new teacher I got the worst classes. There were some very spoiled kids in class who had learned at home to whine and threaten in order to get their own way. So they would fight for grades that they did not deserve and they would enlist their parents in manipulating in this way. Boy, I was not ready for that kind of aggression and felt really steam- rollered by this verbal assault.
I did learn to survive better by being very, very clear about my expectations. I found this annoying as I like to be spontaneous and creative in class but with these lilttle baracudas it is better to be very directive. For instance, I let them know EXACTLY how I was going to grade them. So much for class participation, so much for ability to work in a group respectfully and cooperatively, so much for quizzes, so much for essays. I would say how I grade the essay. So they could contract for a grade if they wanted and they knew what they had to do to get an A. There were no surprises. I also said that once the grade was out that was it.
These aggressive kids who bully and intimidate the teacher are very imature and socially arrested. Basically, they are having a tantrum and won't stop until you give in. They had you feeling really scared. That is way toooooo aggressive. I heard your fear and wished I could come there and help out.
"Parents should never be surprised by what is on their child's report card". I wise old teacher told me that. It is true. If a kid is rude and non-cooperative, then let the parents know. You can say " little johnny is very good at this, this and this, but he is struggling to be respectful and does not seem to have the tools to do this."
I have done this and I then ask if the parents experience this behaviour at home and maybe we could work together on addressing this behaviour that is going to hold little johnnie back in the future. Usually, parents are really defensive at first and swear that the child is a perfect angel at home. However, eventually they admit that they are overwhelmed by the child as well and would like to work on the obnoxious behaviour. So it is great that you separate the behavour from the child ie. his behaviour is naughty but HE is still a loveable person.
In working with behaviour disordered kids it is really important to have some kind of connection with them. This can be done by writing a short note about their work to them and especially a note catching them doing something right. For instance, a tough little girl who spits nails at you might be kind to her neighbour. So you write a note and say," Gwen, I noticed that you were very kind to lttle joey who struggles with math. I just wanted to let you know how nice that was and I do see your good side. This can amaze kids. They are not used to having a narrative with a teacher.This is saved for the really hurt and difficult kids.
Hmmmmm this is a lot of info. I am glad to help if you need it.
I think you may have a point about private school teachers having to take more crap from parents. I am not sure about that though. It is pretty universal to have some parents who just think the teacher is a mean witch and so they come on like gang busters. If a parent is really rude and angry, which happens far too often, then you can say that you are having difficulty dealing with their anger and you would like to set up an appointment at a later date to deal with the issue more calmly. This saves you from being verbally beaten up. It is highly recommended to take an assertiveness training course or a conflict resolution course for dealing with charged situations. I bet the general public has no idea how off the rails parents can get about their kids to the well meaning teacher.
Good Luck. You sound like the kind of teacher I wish that I had.
Love,
Sea storm
The principal probably wants you to deal with this because this is their first wish.
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Are my superiors so blind that they do not see that I do a god job? I am a good teacher. Why do I feel so lonely? I talked to the team leader. She said that they deserved a bad grade. I have to deal with the complains tomorrow. Somebody help me. Why did I leave those grades? I wanted to send a mesage. Hope that the one that receives a mesage is not going to be me. Please, pray for me.
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Margo/Tremusan Writes: Listen. Your problem isn't giving out bad grades. It's conflict resolution that scares the hell out of you. I think sitting and writing out your feelings is a very effective tool in hashing out your true feelings. Esp when you have to have face to face conversations where you'll be emotionally overwhelmed by tones of voice and inflammatory statements. Sitting and distilling down your feelings.... starting out loud and emotional..... re reading and writing it out once again with more focus, then again till you have your feelings internalized and can discuss them without becoming overhwelmed by emotions.
You can always discuss compromises and problem resolution with these parents about their children's behavior. Make this a forum where the children might be helped. In the long run... that's the goal. Not giving them poor grades. How can their cooperation be gained? If it can't..... that's OK too. Just be aware of what you can and can't do.
Look..... getting overwhelmed is a problem. It's your problem. It's also your job to get over it and figure it out. You're right about those grades. I sure hope you did OK discussing it with the parents and students. I'll read ahead and see how it went. Tremusan
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Thank you thank you Thank you, for your kind words. For you nice heart to empathize with another human being. Thank you. It is very nice to come here and ventilate, and receive consolation, and comfort.
Today the report cards went home. I had the last chance to change grades, but I did not. I prayed all night. I know I did the right thing. Later in the day I found out that two of the Fs were not going to complain because they were expecting something since their children were written up before. And the other two were in deep trouble because they had a very low GPA including the coach's son. Those are almost lost cases, unless the parents do something radical. So, the sports director told me that he did not think that the coach was going to jump on my back. if they do, they will be very weak, since I had a good judgment. So, the only problem left is two Ds to two rude ladies that are future Ns, and will serious attitude problems. If they confront me, the only sin I had is not to call them and tell them of the behavior, because I was intimidated by their past actions. But that is easy, I will apologize, tell them that I am sorry i did not notify them before, but I thought I could handle it and the kids got out of control and that is why they got a D. Also I will tell them that their kids know right and wrong, that they are 18 years old, that they are young adults, that next year they are going to college and they need to apply them selves. I have documentation, and witnesses of their behavior. So, probably they will not give me a big trouble.
Or so I think. I feel a little better today. if they fire me for doing the right thing, then I do not want to work in a Christian school where they protect the bullies. And on top they control my life, I have to go to their church, I cannot have a beer because it is considered a sin, i cannot go to a bar, because id they see me I will lose my job. And if on top of it they protect the bullies, then, please, god help me. I went to the principal's office just to take temperature, asked him how he was and he chatted with me about classroom management and books to read. He was not mad at all. So, I am assuming that he does not expect a problem.
In my same school, a wonderful elementary teacher was fired this week, because an angry mother called all parents and set her up. It is scary. This summer I will think what I should do. Maybe look in a public school. I do not know. Now, the big trouble will start after spring brake because the instigator is in Europe, since half of the school went to Europe and they are coming back after spring brake on the 26th. But the four F were there today and did not do anything.
But, it is wonderful to be able to talk here with all of you. For the first time I feel that I am getting my fair share of attention. it is wonderful.
I love you all.
God bless you.
Lupita
Margo/Tremusan writes: As I read all your posts..... I want to say I get the impression that you feel you're at fault somehow. That you feel you've done something wrong. And I'm talking about wearing that feeling like a jacket. It seems to be with you at all times. I may be way off but...... I think I do that too. Always have.
I also think it makes us the perfect choices for N's. We already think we've done something wrong.... there's something wrong with US on a fundamental level.... or something. I'm pointing it out so you can take it, turn it over, look at it and examine it. It may mean nothing.... or it may help you figure out how to become more confident in dealing with other people and asserting yourself with more force in the world. Tremusan
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Dear Margo,
It is true. I always feel guilty. No matter what. People knows it and use it. Even the little ones know. I am transparent to everybody and I put my self unintentionally in the spot to be manipulated, I put my self at risk, they push my buttons and they know it nad they know how. As a child of an N parent, I am constantly seeking for aproval, hungry for love, desperate to please others, including my students. And that is not good. I am there to make them work. And in my desire to offer them fun activities, I feel sad if they do not respond. So, they realize that I want them to love me, and they use it. When they feel that I do not care, then they will behave better. I have to detach. Need councelling but cant afford it. My insurance does not cover it. Yes, I need training in conflict resolution. What could I read?
Seastorm,
It is so nice that you know what I am going thtough. Those kids are so selfish. And they do not know what is coming. They do not understand that they are going to college, and no professor is going to listen to their parents. And they do not want to work and they know that I am going to be blamed for their choices. It is very discouraging. Of course, I have a very good group of nice students. But those badones are distributed in all the classes and with two in each class, they destroy everything. And with parents that deffend their kids at all costs and all the time in denial, it is more difficult. But it is very nice to know that somebody has gone through the same pain here in the board. What do you do now, Sea?
Thank you fro writing. All the advises of everybody here are very valuable. I think I am going to print all this thread and read it at school every morning to give me strenght.
Thank you to everybody,
This board rocks!!!!
These people rock!!! I love everybody here.
I have one week vacation!!!!!!! :mrgreen: