Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Margo on May 14, 2007, 07:17:40 PM
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Short version. When our friend came to move stuff out of the house next door, our old house 2 doors down from our new house..... friend found that 2 cabinets had been pretty badly damaged. He was almost in tears talking about how bad it was..... things had been ripped out from inside.... screws holes stripped. It truly looked like someone had had a bit of a rage attack. One very heavy cabinet lay on it's side and one had a shattered door. We're talking Henredon furniture.... $10,000.00 if you bought them brand new. I called my attorney and we were hastily trying to move things out..... terrible pressure and N did deliver that dumpster in front, just like he said he would. I didn't want him throwing out all my photo albums and baby treasures. Friend brought strange men over to help him move stuff... men from off of a street corner so.... I was trying to move my journals and keep eye on the girls but too too too much. I didn't trust the men and N was coming over soon, to see the girls he said. I was frantic bc friend was so upset and we were moving stuff as fast as we could and there were some other factors driving me nuts..... more pressures. My attorney was sending a courier over to get some of the evidence..... he was unhappy I had it on me when N on the way but I was dealing with it when friend called frantic so had to put it on back burner and then had to go get girls...... When N got to the house I was trying to pull out of the drive. He blocked me in and agressively came around my door. I put up the windows and asked him to move the truck. He said he wouldn't. I said I'd call the police and started doing that. He said he would but instead went and told the workers they were trespassing and should leave. I got the police and asked them to come. N went to the new house, where girls were and started playing with 4yo. It was bad. Poor her saw everything and he took her back over with him to see the police. I had called my 75 yo friend to come and keep the girls safe.... there was a fork lift running and I was so overwhelmed..... both girls should have stayed with her away from police, but didn't.
Let me explain what he said on his way over..... on the phone I asked him why he destroyed the cabinets and he said it was an accident but there was no way that he needed to be moving those around by himself and he made it clear from the start that he was making trouble when he demanded the girls Mother's Day weekend and immediately started moving in 2 doors away and saying he was going to throw all my stuff away and not give any time to get it out. Anyway..... whew.... he said I had enough time to move all the stuff and he'd "tricked you again you dumb bitch." I think that had something to do with saying it was ok to change locks, I spent over $500.00, and then he said he would get cops to make me give him a key. Terrible thing. He went on about threats with a sledgehammer and coming back with other people and tearing everything up. It was awful.... I felt like I did when he choked me out of the blue. The raging is something very new in our relationship. He's usually the quiet threat making type.
Anyway... one of the things making me nervouse was I had something on me that the attorney didn't want N to get.... evidence. I was trying to get out with it when he came home and as I was running to give it, and a box from the trunk, to the courier sitting in the other drive, N was following me fast. AAAHHHHHHHHHH! I was shaking and afraid N would grab the courier and take everything, which seems to be the way my luck is going.
Cops came and I told story.... N told story. 4yo on my hip. Very bad. I've sheltered them so much up to this point and now she'll go to school tomorrow and tell everyone about the police coming to her house yesterday. Can't stay focused, sorry. Police said they can't keep N away or out of either house. My attorney, once again, can do NOTHING. We plan for a temp hearing on Wed but..... opposing counsel's MIL is dying in hospital so there may be a problem or funeral. ::sigh:: SO frustrated and my neck is about to snap and my stomach is stinging like I'm in labor. N came over and talked for a while. Really scared me to look into his eyes and just let him talk again. I can't beleive I started laughing. I laughed and it was a bit off for me. Not typical but it struck me that I'm SO TRAPPED! I can't get OUT! This is really happening to me and this was the opposite thing I always thought I wanted. I waited to make this kind of commitment for THIRTY SEVEN YEARS! ::breathing deeply::
He said he'll be back over in a while. He said that I've lost all credibility with my attorney and that he wants to withdraw from my case... that there's something I need to know about the 80K he's supposed to return to me, very ominouse. He's going on and on about how he loves me and how I've hurt him. He teared up and said this is all my fault..... I should just settle and quit escalating everything.
OK.... I never can give the short version. Margo
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Margo,
You dont need to give the short version. I'm not sure there IS a short version on such a horrible day. Write all you want to, we'll read it. You have my complete sympathy and horror on your behalf. I SO wish there is something I could do for you. What a nightmare you are in.
Margo, you will survive. You will make it. Your children will make it. I know it doesnt feel like that right now--but there are so many here that can testify to how bad it can be before it gets better. Brigid, Mum...their stories were bad as well. And now they have new lives. You will, too.
Much love, Margo,
CB
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Thanks CB. He just left after talking and talking and talking about giving me a quick settlement if I'd promise to "give him a second chance." I just couldn't say yes and I couldn't let him touch me. He said "that's ok, I know what I need to know now" which creeps me out and frightens me.
He doesn't have a key to this house but I'd feel better if Auntie Pat had been able to stay the night. I really need a dog. Margo
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((((((((Margo)))))))))
I am so sorry you are going through this. Try to stay strong and centered (easy to say eh? not so easy to accomplish - they get you so off balance with their craziness it is hard to remember which way is up.)
Would it be possible to insist on contact by e-mail or registered letter only? Or maybe direct contact only when a third party is present? This way you have documentation of his threats or a witness. My father was always at his worst when it was one-on-one. Most likely because he had no qualms about lying through his teeth to protect himself. Just a thought - not sure if this is possible or safe in your situation.
My heart goes out to you. Hang in there. I am praying for you.
Peace
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Dear Margo,
There was a time when I was thinking of leaving. I pictured your type of situation and that was part of the reason that I stayed. I don't think that I had the courage to face what you are facing. In fact, i know that I didn't and probably don't now.
I saw friends go through divorces with vindictive husbands with ample resources and community standing that was used to drive them crazy.
They all emerged fine, after it was over. A part of me knows that I "weenied" out because of fear . I can never know what would have been the better way. My husband has "mellowed" and does not sound like he is in your husbands league.( My mother would be though)
Anyway, you are showing great strength . i admire that . Wish I could give you a hot cup of tea.and a hug. Love to You Ami
Let me tell you.... I didn't have the courage to face what I'm facing now. I had no idea when it started and I was so freaked out I wouldn't have started this and done it the way I have. I'll post about what I did right and what I did wrong, IMO...... later.
But let me tell you...... there's something inside of me that keeps going and won't be backed down. Even when I really really really really want to just to get some of the pressure off and we all know how badly I wanted that.... may cost me dearly. I just can't and I worry sometimes that I'll end up one of those people who looks back and wishes they hadn't picked this particular fight.
For me.... the fights for two things. Fighting for money. And fighting for freedom. I look at those words and...... I can't back down. Like he says.... he hasn't put enough pressure on me yet. I'm so afraid I'll regret facing up to him. Just can't see backing down now. It's a circle and I don't see any plausible outcome working out for me.
btw.... I couldn't read the first paragraph I wrote on the OP. Incoherent. Thanks for reading guys.
As for that cup of tea..... I'm going to have one now then go to bed.
This board is an oasis of understanding. So nice not to have to convince anyone of every little crazy unlikely detail. I couldn't write fiction like this. Margo
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((((((((Margo)))))))))
I am so sorry you are going through this. Try to stay strong and centered (easy to say eh? not so easy to accomplish - they get you so off balance with their craziness it is hard to remember which way is up.)
Would it be possible to insist on contact by e-mail or registered letter only? Or maybe direct contact only when a third party is present? This way you have documentation of his threats or a witness. My father was always at his worst when it was one-on-one. Most likely because he had no qualms about lying through his teeth to protect himself. Just a thought - not sure if this is possible or safe in your situation.
My heart goes out to you. Hang in there. I am praying for you.
Peace
I've been waiting for someone to help me control him but the police and attorneys say there's no order so.... he's pretty much free to do what he does. At some point..... won't the system help at all? Someone TELL me it will!!!
I just played his words in my mind again..... "I just tricked you again, you dumb b*tch." It was like my minds eye looked right through the skin and bone of him and into the black hole that was always him. The man I thought he was,never existed. There's just a big black mawing dark hole of need, anger and pain. And he's relentlessly focused on getting his way. Relentless is a good word. Margo
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Margo,
If there is evidence of him destroying your possessions and threatening you and stealing your checks and hiring convicted murderers to help him move and talking about hit men and videoing you without your permission or knowledge, it boggles my mind that your attorney cannot procure a restraining order on this jerk. They are often given as a matter of routine in a case such as this. Even if it was a mutual one that restrained you from contacting him as well it would be better than what you are going through since you obviously have zero desire to even be on the same planet as him. What is the reason you can't get one?
Of course if you are dealing with a truly violent person they are of little value, so if you do get one you'll have to be extra vigilant, but you seem to have the worst possible scenario right now.
mud
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Margo,
When you put " I worry sometimes that I'll end up one of those people who looks back and wishes they hadn't picked this particular fight. " it made me think that you DIDN'T pick this particular fight - HE DID. But, you're fighting for your soul, and freedom for you and your children.
You CAN get out the other side, but it's so hard to see at the moemnt, I know.
When things were at their worst with me, I used to wake up in the mornings and immediately faint with the fear and realisation of the mess I was in. Now I can look back on that as just something that I got through.
It will get better, and you're doing what needs to be done.
Thinking about you all day!
Janet
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Margo,
If there is evidence of him destroying your possessions and threatening you and stealing your checks and hiring convicted murderers to help him move and talking about hit men and videoing you without your permission or knowledge, it boggles my mind that your attorney cannot procure a restraining order on this jerk. They are often given as a matter of routine in a case such as this. Even if it was a mutual one that restrained you from contacting him as well it would be better than what you are going through since you obviously have zero desire to even be on the same planet as him. What is the reason you can't get one?
Of course if you are dealing with a truly violent person they are of little value, so if you do get one you'll have to be extra vigilant, but you seem to have the worst possible scenario right now.
mud
I'm just on my way out the door to discuss options with attorney. His paralegal knows I'm upset with them and her excuse was...... "well.... we had other cases going......"
I'm going to set up an appointment with another attorney to discuss what's happened as well. I'll ask if he specializes in family law. I've read everyone's post and can't reply right now but will get back after appt. Thanks for all the advice and support.
If we can't get a restraining order..... I should at least have the temp order saying he needs permission to come onto this property just like CB said. I can't imagine, but..... (that seems to be the theme of this debacle.... I can't imagine) that I'll be left hanging on my own much longer. My biggest fear is that this temp hearing will be cancelled and my attorney will send me on my way again, same old same old. I have the feeling that he's ON my case right now though. They seem to turn their attention to what is going to court next. That would be me.
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Hiya Margo:
I wrote a post on your other thread and then read this one. Go for the restraining order!! Make a lot of noise!! Point out all the stuff he's done......over and over and express your fear to the police......to the lawyer.......(but hide it from N)!! I hope they will grant the order!
Hang in there! You are doing this! You are surviving it! And the beautiful thing is......you will come out of it and heal from it and go on with your life and your children will do the same but him.......
........he will continue to rot from the inside out.
Sela
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Good that you're getting a second legal opinion. The law is on your side. Your cops and lawyers trump his craziness. In fact, he's probably burning up some serious money with his behavior.
As for dealing with NH's statements, do not believe a word he says. Not his attempts to make you doubt yourself, not his attempts to win you back, not his threats, and not his promises. Don't even listen, because your rational mind will seek to make sense of things that are inherently irrational, things that will never make any sense, except from a legal and/or medical standpoint in terms of consequences and/or treatment. Only the legal and/or medical system can deal with him now.
Try to get into a calm space and stay in it. He will try everything to drag you out of your good place. Avoid him. Just stay away from him. As far away as possible. Be careful.
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Margo,
Yes, go for the restraining order. He sounds like a complete nut. Keeping yourself sane and grounded in this time has to be your priority. I am so sorry for you little D also. Surround yourself with good people and keep posting.
axa
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Margo,
I don't want you to think I am not thinking about you but I did go dead quiet when I read your post. I feel as pissed as I did 15 years ago. I had to deal with the courts also and there is not much for me to say accept that I know your frustration.
I was denied A Protection order when I was in court and ordered to come back in 30 days with my H for another hearing.
I was so (mad,insane crazy) I wanted to jump up and hold the judge accountable and scream it in his face but of course did not for fear of contempt.
I know what you are going through and I am thinking about you.
Hopefully soon it will all be over and done and your life can go on without him in it or bothering you.
Thinking of you Margo,
Love
Deb
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Hiya Margo:
I wrote a post on your other thread and then read this one. Go for the restraining order!! Make a lot of noise!! Point out all the stuff he's done......over and over and express your fear to the police......to the lawyer.......(but hide it from N)!! I hope they will grant the order!
Hang in there! You are doing this! You are surviving it! And the beautiful thing is......you will come out of it and heal from it and go on with your life and your children will do the same but him.......
........he will continue to rot from the inside out.
Sela
I think part of my problem has been that I've been a bit too stoic in dealing my my N. I haven't made enough noise. I haven't broken, hardly at all when other people can see me. I'm very private. I hate being in this position. I don't want him to see what he's doing to me etc....... I've been trying to be strong in his face. I'm going to post on another thread about the day. Still in shock.... "::shaking head:: Margo
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Good that you're getting a second legal opinion. The law is on your side. Your cops and lawyers trump his craziness. In fact, he's probably burning up some serious money with his behavior.
As for dealing with NH's statements, do not believe a word he says. Not his attempts to make you doubt yourself, not his attempts to win you back, not his threats, and not his promises. Don't even listen, because your rational mind will seek to make sense of things that are inherently irrational, things that will never make any sense, except from a legal and/or medical standpoint in terms of consequences and/or treatment. Only the legal and/or medical system can deal with him now.
Try to get into a calm space and stay in it. He will try everything to drag you out of your good place. Avoid him. Just stay away from him. As far away as possible. Be careful.
I shouldhave a month of calm space to heal and grow calm. Margo
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Margo,
Yes, go for the restraining order. He sounds like a complete nut. Keeping yourself sane and grounded in this time has to be your priority. I am so sorry for you little D also. Surround yourself with good people and keep posting.
axa
I'm really feeling sad for myself right now. Now that alls said and done.... my friend said... "you should have had someone move in with you." I was always asking for people to come and stay here.... I was frantic for company in the beginning. People have their own dragons to sleigh though and asking for help and hearin No makes it harder to ask again. I ended up on my own. Really sad right now and not feeling supported by my family, at all. Margo
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Margo,
I don't want you to think I am not thinking about you but I did go dead quiet when I read your post. I feel as pissed as I did 15 years ago. I had to deal with the courts also and there is not much for me to say accept that I know your frustration.
I was denied A Protection order when I was in court and ordered to come back in 30 days with my H for another hearing.
I was so (mad,insane crazy) I wanted to jump up and hold the judge accountable and scream it in his face but of course did not for fear of contempt.
I know what you are going through and I am thinking about you.
Hopefully soon it will all be over and done and your life can go on without him in it or bothering you.
Thinking of you Margo,
Love
Deb
This kind of frustration.... it's got a life of it's own. The legal system isn't perfect and this isn't over yet but...... N's make it very very difficult for Judges to figure out what's going on.... apparently. I'll post a new thread about my day: / Thanks for your support Deb, Margo
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there's something inside of me that keeps going and won't be backed down.
That's what courage is, honey.
(((((margo)))))
towrite
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there's something inside of me that keeps going and won't be backed down.
That's what courage is, honey.
(((((margo)))))
towrite
I sure hope this courage doesn't get me killed or demolish my life. N is telling people I'm pulling knives on him and he'd asked for the children's shot records and copies of their ss cards. I truly don't know if he's going to make me sorry I ever opposed him. He believes he's going to drive me to the point where I run away with nothing just to get out of this struggle.
This is one thing I see coming, considering the manufactured IM conversation he produced between us..... supposedly after the police were here. He may have been producing IM conversations all along or is producing them now and backdating them. I'm thinking out loud here so I can hear everyone's input. IF he's doing that.... won't it be pretty easy for the court to see the difference in his fakes and the way I actually write? Can the Geeksquad go into a computer and figure out if it sent an IM or not?
Margo
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Margo,
It should be easy for a technician to determine whether any messages originated with your computer. It is my experience that such antics make for great theater outside court and serve to intimidate the opponent(you) but that they only alienate the court and are usually pretty transparent and counterproductive for the person engaging in them.
If you give them enough rope they usually hang themselves. You and your attorney just have to remember to tie the other end to the tree.
mud
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Margo, just catching up here...
I'd like to add my voice to this chorus here. Do not allow his energy to take over yours. Keep your head down, and march on.
It almost doesn't matter what you do, I swear that's what I learned most. The way I thought things should go, or be done, play by play, hardly ever fell out as I thought they would. I never really knew which step was right or which was wrong. The lawyers, judges, courts, etc. Just seemed nuts sometimes. So much of it seemed out of control...especially out of my control.
But the one thing I never let go of, was an unwavering INTENTION to have my life back, on my terms. What ended up mattering the most was my own (shocking!) inner strength and belief in myself. (Do you see you have that? I see it!)
That does not mean that I was always "strong". I was a pillar of strength and a collapsed wreck all in any given day. But I knew I was doing what I must to live MY life on MY terms! I knew, despite how hard my ex tried to warp this, that I was doing the right thing. I knew that to be the kind of mother I knew I should be, that I had to live on my terms. It took a while, and it was like some surreal battle from a Greek epic. The testing of my soul, to be sure. But this is what you can count on! Your spirit, your heart. This is what will not waver. Darkness cannot survive in light. Never.
Don't let the crazy legal goings on, or your crazy making ex keep you from your focus. Do whatever you can to focus your mind on your intention and not on how bad things currently are. You are the strong yet flexible tree. You will weather this storm and be standing long after all the blowing from your NNNNasty ex. Please keep checking in. The people here helped my so much through my difficulties.
Do what feels right, even if it is scary and then trust in yourself. Keep after your lawyer. Bug the hell out of him or her...
You will get through this. And life will be amazing because you did. You are soooo brave. I see that, do you? You are amazing!!!
Courage doesn't mean you are not afraid....it means being afraid, but doing it anyway!!! So go get 'em, sister!!!
Sending strength and love to you!
Mum
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Thanks Mum.....
I am afraid. I am alarmed and full of adrenaline then exhausted then a brand new kind of adrenaline starts hitting me in the cheeks. New symptom..... adrenaline piercing and warming my cheeks. This is a whole new kind of alarmed. I really think that N may get away with all the crazy crazy crazy things he said he would do. I'm still waiting in fear to see WHICH threats he's going to make good on. He's made so many. I know they're coming and I know some of this threats are empty and some are just bluffs. Talk about crazy. This is a crazy making way to live. The gaslighting is so extreme...... Margo
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Thanks Mud, Mum, Ami and CB:
I'll feel better if I know IM's can be traced to a certain computer.... or not. Also feel better if judge says N can't move right next door. His attorney requested he be allowed and my attorney requested a conference call with the Judge today to block that.
On the way to field day at 6yo's school... I had to filed question about why Daddy wasn't going to take her after all, which was ok in the end as she said she preferred me anyway but up in the air for a few moments when I thought she'd have a meltdown.
\
Also, while passing a cemetary..... we pass every day.... she began asking questions about when she dies and that just crumbled me. I was OK one minute and picturing the little blue and pink with silvery sparkles headstone she said she wanted to paint with just her and I on it. Then she reflected for a moment and said she wanted her 4yo sister to be on the back and other side so they could go to heaven together. Talk about disturbing. And I had to go and try to act normal around all those people for an hour and a half. Margo
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Margo,
I promise you the pain on the inside is consuming me. I have a new therapist just for the depression and the guilt that is devasting me. I am into step 4-5 in the 12steps and have a new chip. I miss the children and you, something terrible, and wish to God we could heal are wounds. I walk around sick, no sleep, and desforic. You want your freedom and you shall have it. You are more worried about money than you are about the family. I am tired of the cat and mouse games that a divorce court brings about. We have lost trust. I used too trust you and now not anymore. The process continues and it wears us down, takes a loving relationship, and turns it to hate. Margo I openly admit my infidelity, lies, and mis-trusts and have turned my energy inward toward building a spiritual core. You cast me as a villian and a terrible one at that... knowing full well you had a fighter. Now you rip his heart out and make him fight the ones he loves? You cry for freedom... but every freedom is available in this country. (religion, speech, worship, etc).. but in your heart it is the "financial freedom" you seek from your endeavor. So, continue to cast me as your NNN and run like crazy... You have a right for D... but if it just comes down to $$$ why not return to therapy, help support your N in his path of healing, let him set you up financially..(but make him believe in you) so that these terrible forces dont have to be????? MY HEART is BREAKING its even more terrible to see you pinning your thoughts for the world to read and to see how no one promotes trying to repair what CAN be fixed. Your true fear comes from the fact that you married a fighter, (Never give in, never give up, and neve quit) a motto of mine.. and you are a healer. Together they work magic... opposing it causes great fear in the healer, and unimagiable remorse and pain in the fighter. This is terrible, it is death, every one has faults and strong points this is an unwelcome battle one i dont want to win. An olive branch I would offer my dove to find peace.
NNN
People sell there souls for gold
People die,, they worry about the inheritance
Money is Evil
and your favorite:
If it takes a reason.... you will find a reason.
PS: To Margo's friends thank you for supporting her. I wish I didn't have to read the posts and suffer the "tongue lashings" it will take a long time and deep meditation for these wounds to heal.
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Is there a person here who hasn't listened to the same bullying, threats, character assassination and abuse couched in an ostensible "apology"?
And they all manage to insert snivelling references to their own good motives and pitiful, innocent victimhood while spewing their threats and false accusations.
As the apostle Paul wrote of Alexander the coppersmith; may God reward them according to their works.
this is an unwelcome battle one i dont want to win
If Margo does not bend, you needn't worry about winning; people like you hang themselves.
mud
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Margo,
Where are you hon? Thinking about you and how you are doing?
Love
Deb
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What a rant!
Margo, you know you are right, just keep going with what you need to do to get away from this person.
As to this quote:
I wish I didn't have to read the posts and suffer the "tongue lashings"
Don't read them, then. But our opinion will not change, and we will continue to support Margo.
Janet
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Have we not heard this before?
Is there a web site where you can pull off sample apologies like you can a sample resume? I swear I have an old letter somewhere pretty much the same.
cut,paste and copy.
Deb
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Margo,
It's all about him.
His grieving sounds composed of self-pity and hostility in equal measure.
Hold fast and walk steadily forward.
It will be all right.
You will both be better off.
Not to mention your daughter.
When he truly wants peace, he will let you go and behave responsibly without drama.
Hang in there,
Hops
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Venturing out into this forum resulted in a "spanking"! The "rant" was not an apology, but a pleading. A proper apology and asking for forgiveness requires a deeper understanding and more spiritual growth that well be accomplished in step 9. Before one would attempt an apology for the deeds that I have done a true growth in spirit must be accomplished and not simply an "off the hook" mentality. One must answer the questions of why this deed was done and understand the impact on the hurt party, and never do it again.
Hops: We will both be OK..the sins will fall on the children.
The drama is over. She is justified in her D. I do love my wife.
Deb: Ouch.. that comment hurt. No plagiarism here
Mud: May the sinless be the 1st to cast the stone. Actually there are no winners in a D. Sorry, you interpreted this to be a threat.
Help
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Hiya Help:
I do love my wife.
If so, then let her go and take proper care about it. Be sure to give her the financial support she needs and stop assigning blame or trying to look innocent. It takes two to tango, no doubt. Take your half and go tango elsewhere. Stop pleading.
She's not interested in your healing, either, I bet.
Go ahead and heal and leave her be.
By the way, who got spanked? Who is the victim?
Sela
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May the sinless be the 1st to cast the stone.
Go, and post no more.
mud