Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: tayana on July 18, 2007, 10:54:50 PM
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My lawyer sent me a letter yesterday saying that the judgment against me has been set aside and new trial date set for next month.
However, I wanted to avoid the nastiness of this case going to trial. I just didn't want the nastiness or the expense of a trial. I have until the court date to settle something out of court.
I spoke with my brother last night, but didn't really resolve anything other than to talk to my dad today. I talked to him. He wants me to talk to my lawyer and set up some sort of payment plan, and he'll help me pay the thing off. It'll still be in my name, and that rather defeats the purpose of hiring the lawyer. I told him I would talk to the lawyer. I really want the whole thing out of my name, and I really don't want to pay off an expense I didn't incur.
My lawyer wants me to talk to my mom, but I know she's unlikely to do anything to help me.
So my choices at this point seem to be, either take responsibility for this myself or else send my mother to jail. I know I shouldn't feel guilty about going to trial, but I don't really want that.
For those who don't know the whole story, my mother took out a credit card in my name, maxxed it out, defaulted on it, it went to court and there were several court procedings I knew nothing about, ending with a judgment for a large sum of money. So I hired a lawyer to get the judgement set aside.
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Dear Tayana,
Here's my feeling: Go to trial and clear your name. I doubt your mother will go to jail. You can ask the judge to not put in your mother in jail and the judge may consider your feelings.
If you don't clear your name, your credit may be messed up for the rest of your life.
I feel for you, it is a terrible situation, but please take care of yourself. Go to trial and then you can put it behind you and restore your credit and good name.
That's my .02.
Love,
sally
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Tayana...... take care of your credit. I seriously doubt your mother will ever be held accountable for what she does. Not that it's your job to sacrafice yourself so she can continue to prey on you in any criminal manner she chooses.
Her letting you swing..... and you trying to protect her (as any caring child would) just makes me want to see her do 30 days in jail SOOOOOO BADLY!
I was going for understated and controlled but..... I just can't do it!!!
If anyone deserves to be held accountable for their criminal actions.... it's your mother.
How dare she injure you and your credit then sit back and let you take the wrap and act like it's not within her power to help you? How dare she do that then expect you to save her from consequences of her own engineering.
That's the thing.... she cuts her throat then tells you that you owe her.... you have to save her...... she's the victim here and how dare you try to send her to jail when she's done nothing wrong?
I hope she has to do a little jail time. I hope she sits there and feels tremendously put out and victimized and injured and then she connects her actions to the misery of being stuck in jail. But she won't. She'll continue to be a miserable human without any empathy for anyone but herself. That's just the way it is.
Nothing you can do about it. I suggest you stop trying to control and fix EVERYTHING. You're job is to take care of yourself and your credit. You can't save your mother from herself or her actions. She asked for all this trouble, now she's going to have to deal with it. At least, I hope so.
Don't get the idea I'll be unhappy at you if you cut your throat, in order to allow your mother to prey on you througouly and completely, without interruption or consequences. I'd support you in that, if that's your decision. Sounds like your father and brother think sacraficing you is for the best too. ::nodding:: Your mother certainly agrees.
I don't happen to like that plan.
What do you think, tayana? Do you think you should pay her debt and let her get away with her behavior? IS it your job to save her from herself? If you think you can..... you're in for a very dissapointing life. You can't save anyone but yourself, and your son.
That's the truth of it.
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I know I shouldn't feel guilty about going to trial, but I don't really want that.
It's the toleration of this kind of BS by us nice and reasonable people that allows them to continue their behavior without fear of consequence.
If you have kids, do you love them by letting them get away with murder or do you demonstrate love by letting them experience the consequences to their misbehavior?
mud
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If it was a family member that did that to me
a part of me would WANT to put them in jail.
a
A part of me thinks that she should, a part of me really wants that. There's another part of me that's saying I'm a terrible person for wanting to put my mother in jail. My friend told me I'm hung up on the word "mother" and anyone else who did something like this I wouldn't hesitate in pursuing this.
My father, I think, is afraid of criminal charges. It's a symbiotic relationship, you know. One can't live without the other. So he's trying to do everything he can to clean up the mess without actually talking to my mother. Communication is something we can't have in my family. No one communicates. My mother makes these messes and then expects everyone to clean up after her. My brother said he didn't really know what to say or advise me to do. He said he thought it was in everyone's best interests not to go to trial, but that he hated telling me to take the wrap for it too. He said it was a lousy situation, and the worst that my mom had ever created. My father's comment was are you sure she did this? You need to go through your credit report and make sure everything listed there is yours. I've already done that. I've already had this account removed from my credit report. I don't even know the account number. I even found the letters where the reporting agencies removed it.
I think I'm going to talk to my mother when I go home to take my dog out. I can't talk long, but I'll give her a choice. She can either take responsibility or I'll let it go to trial. My attorney wants her to contact him, so I'll give her his number, and I'll call him later today. Maybe, by some miracle, she'll feel guilty and decide to do the right thing.
I just don't think I should have to accept the blame for this. I had nothing to do with it.
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Ya know, Mud.
tayana's mother wouldn't have done this to her if she thought tayana would do anything about it.
N's usually have very good instincts about this sort of thing.
Maybe tayana doesn't have it in her to do it?
Maybe she could if it was M being hurt? I don't think she can see that M may be the one she's doing this to in 10 years if she continues without experieincing any consequences?
I just don't know if tayana trusts that her rights are more important than letting her mother get away again.
Her mother certainly took the bet that tayana wouldn't be able to follow through with holding her accountable.
I'd say it's about 50/50 at this point since tayana had the strength to get out of her mother's home but still hesitates to make her pay for her own cowardly behavior.
If she hadn't moved out...... I'd say Mom is safe safe safe, no doubt.
Since tayana is new at this self protection/care game...... mom still has a chance to beam at herself in the mirror while telling tay's father that she knew the little sniveler would back down because she was innocent and had nothing to fear in the first place. She'll go on about "how dare tayana even think about bringing up these insane charges against her!?!" She should probably file charges back ::nodding:: but since she cares so deeply about her child, she could NEVER do what her own child DID TO HER and on and on and blah blah blah it will go with the weak and the dominated in that family.
Tayana isn't weak and she isn't dominated..... now..... but,
She's wounded and shaky and her mother is keeping her off balance.
50/50 ::nodding::
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tayana..... that's a wonderful idea.
Give your mother the choice. Than let her... finally finally finally.... deal with the consequences.
((tayana))
She can clear this up if she wants to. Just make it clear that you're not going to do it for her any more.
I like this idea very much.
::worrying about tayana having that conversation with her mother::
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She's wounded and shaky and her mother is keeping her off balance.
I agree lighter. However, in my experience the best way to regain one's balance is to hold the aggressive party accountable. I realize not everyone is in a position to do that but I thi nk many people are and just don't know it. The battle with an N is always a battle of wills. If we keep ours we prevail, if we lose it they do. IMO the best way to keep it is to stand like a rock regardless of their threats and whining or the threats and whining their surrogates do.
I think tayana's solution is perfect; either her mother accepts responsibility for her actions or she will have accountability imposed on her. Either way tayana is not forced to submit to her mother's web of submission. I think that is a very important part of her continuing to break free of her mother's grip that started with tayana moving out.
mud
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Yup yup yup, Mud.
Tayana came up with a good solution she can live with.
She won't feel responsible for what happens and God knows.... I just wanna smack her brother and father for allowing all this to go on without just saying "THAT'S WRONG! STOP IT!" to the mother.
Instead, what to they do? They murmur things to Tay about not holding her mother accountable. They let Tayana fall into terrible credit problems and just shake their heads and feel badly about it? Absolutley unnacceptable.
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Dear Tayana
You got great practical advice from people who know more than I do. I want to talk about your father. Isn't it HORRIBLE when you realize that Mr Nice guy is really just in a symbiotic relationship with the N mother..
My F-- Mr wonderful -is part of the duo. He is not the good one and she is the "bad one. They are a team. It really, really hurts to see this-- doesn't it? Love Ami
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I don't know why I bothered. I really don't.
I called Nmom at lunch today when I went home. We chitchatted for a minute, then I asked her if she would talk to my lawyer. She said she would, but she said, "It's not mine, and if you think you're going to hang $28,000 on me you've got another thing coming, because it's not mine."
I said, "Well it's not mine, either, and I don't think I should have to pay for it. I said I have two choices, we can settle this out of court or we can let it go to trial."
Once again she gave me the nonsense about the account having been paid off originally, thereby admitting she had the card at one point, and that she had turned over all papers, but no proof the account had been paid in full, over to the attorney she hired. I've never seen anything she gave this attorney, and she kept no copies. She said, I don't think I should be responsible for something that isn't mine.
I said somebody is going to get screwed then and it looks it's going to be me. I told her if it went to trial, then there would be possible criminal charges. She didn't care, just reiterated that it wasn't hers and she shouldn't have to pay for it. She told me I could take her to court if I wanted, but it wasn't hers.
So, I came back to work, feeling like I'd just lost yet another round in the boxing ring, and called my attorney to let him know I'd put his check in the mail and my mother was supposed to call.
I pulled my credit report again and I can see where this account has been sold, and it looks like it might have been paid at the time of the sale, but I don't know for sure.
I have no account numbers, no nothing to get any information from the company. My mother claims the principle on this account was a piddly amount, but I don't think $13000 is piddly. I'm hoping there's an account number on some of the papers my attorney gave me, and if there is, I'm going to contact these credigy people and see if I can get a copy of all paperwork related to this. At least then I can see past history on the account, because I don't believe my mom when she says it was paid off. She told my dad the account she defaulted on in his name was almost paid off too, but she still owes $5000 on it.
As for it not being hers, I remember statements from this credit card company coming to the house, because I used to sneak a look at them to see the balances. She defaulted on my dad's card, and I"m certain she defaulted on this one too. I just need proof.
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Dear Tayana,
I am so mad, at the moment, for what she is doing. I would take her to court. It is your dignity that is at stake here(IMO) . She thinks that you are so worthless and inconsequential that she can treat you despicably.Show her otherwise !!!! Love Ami
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Well....::sigh:: tayana.... are ya surprised?
I'm quite certain your mom is going to deny this to the death, even if there are pictures of her using the credit card and recordings of her laughing about your being stuck with the debt. That's just the way these people operate.
I'm also certain that you should continue doing whatever it is you need to protect yourself and your credit.
If statements went to your mother's address, there will be records of it.
How frustrating this must be for you. And you have all the responsibility and no information to help yourself.
You certainly don't have any control over what your mother does.
You shouldn't feel guity when the consequences of HER actions catch up with her.
(((tayana))) You gave her a chance to deal with this outside the courtroom. She didn't take it.
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(((tayana))) You gave her a chance to deal with this outside the courtroom. She didn't take it.
Yes.
Tayana. Woman. She's calling your bluff, hon.
She is calling your bluff.
You have a decision to make. You know what it is, and you know what it means.
(You made one you thought you couldn't make before. And where are you and M sleeping tonight?)
love and support and hope to you,
Hops
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Hops,
Very true, though I have some new information that is very interesting. I don't know how worthwhile it is, but it's interesting.
I just have to relate my story from last night. M had been home from camp for about thirty minutes. He had a really good day, and he was all bubbly. He talked to Grandma for a few minutes, while keeping one eye on the TV. I guess she asked him if he missed her, and he told her that he'd almost forgot about her that day, but that he did miss her. So she hung up on him.
Yes, she hung up on a ten year old, because he'd had a really fun day with other kids.
She called me later and complained because of what he'd said, making some comment about, "Well, since he doesn't know me anymore . . ." and then "What's he doing right now?" Well, at that moment, he was watching TV while I was cleaning up the kitchen. Later on he helped me sort books. I swear if I never see another book . . .
So now, she's not speaking to either of us, and I'm not complaining.
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::standing... arms crossed watching tayana come to grips with her reality::
Why is it so hard to keep clear focus on our true reality?
It comes and it goes...... it blurrs and comes back.
Did your mother call your attorney?
It doesn't matter, she won't admit she did anything anyway.
It's all your fault or M's fault or someone else's fault, never HER fault.
How is M taking the hang up and subsequent violent disconnect from communcation with him?
::whispering:: If he's fine...... I'd just let her fade into the distance, with hardly another about it.
So glad to hear M's haviing a good time at camp. That's a blessing you can count.
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M was unphazed by it. I just let it go. He was much more interested in something on TV anyway. The only thing I asked was if she hung up on him.
As far as I know, she hasn't called the attorney. I doubt she will because then she has to admit guilt, which she won't do. After all, I'm just trying to pin this on her. Never mind that she has admitted to having the card at one point, but I'm just trying to foist it off on her. I have to wonder what she thought was going to happen if she let it go.
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M was unphazed by it. I just let it go. He was much more interested in something on TV anyway. The only thing I asked was if she hung up on him.
As far as I know, she hasn't called the attorney. I doubt she will because then she has to admit guilt, which she won't do. After all, I'm just trying to pin this on her. Never mind that she has admitted to having the card at one point, but I'm just trying to foist it off on her. I have to wonder what she thought was going to happen if she let it go.
God, I'll never get used to them accusing innocent parties of DOING EXACTLY WHAT IT IS THEY ARE DOING!
AHHHHHHH!
Whew.... I feel better now, lol.
Like I said, I'd just let her fade into the distance for M.... and for yourself.
Maybe it'll be easier if you skip the traumatic drama, and enjoined struggle with your mom, if you don't make any formal NC decisions. Easier for you and easier bc you invite no struggles and accusations? Not sure, but you're doing great, tayana.
You keep surprising me: )
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Dear Tayana,
I guess that it shows how "sick" I still am b/c I was "shocked" that she did that to M and that she is THAT sick. I guess that I never want to face how bad N's are .
Tayana, it is so awful . You are doing great, though Love Ami
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Tay,
It's so invasive, her asking you: What is he doing now?
It's like she's not there but demands to BE there, in his head, in your head, Priority One at all times.
I think one real boundary to practice that's very very important for you is this:
Give yourself permission not to answer her questions.
You do not have to answer her questions.
You can practice the non sequitor. The non sequitor is super duper powerful Nammo.
Nammo = anti-N ammo. A non sequitor, for example, is when she says:
What is M doing now?
He's fine, the butterfly bush across the way is blooming.
What's he doing now?
I've got to run, load of laundry in.
What's he doing now?
I'm off now, cookies in the oven.
What's he doing now?
Uh-huh, I learned how to hang a shelf. It was fun.
What's he doing now?
Long day at work today, things are good though.
What's he doing now?
Thanks, I feel better today, got a good rest.
What's he doing now?
This dog is so funny! Love dogs. Gotta run, bye.
What's he doing now?
Yawn. Boy am I sleepy. Talk to you later.
What's he doing now?
Oh it looks like rain. Amazing clouds.
etc.
In particular, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GIVE HER ANY INFORMATION ABOUT M. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ANSWER HER QUESTIONS ABOUT M. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ANSWER HER QUESTIONS ABOUT M. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LISTEN TO HER COMMENTS ABOUT M. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TALK ON THE PHONE WITH HER ABOUT YOUR SON. OR AT ALL.
I think a big place you need to set boundaries is the phone. I think you might go into a trance of obedience when your mother calls you on the phone. I think you don't know it's okay to say, I have one minute. I have to hang up now, I'll talk to you later, goodbye, click.
I think this is an incredibly important thing for you to practice. I think letting her voice enter your head through your ear is a violation and you need to become more aware of what is happening when she is talking to you on the phone. I think you need to hold the phone six inches away from your ear EVERY time you hear her voice. I think you need to always stop and stand on one foot with the phone six inches away and run cold water and flip it into your face every time her voice is coming out of the phone. I think you need to break the phone trance. And start timing calls with a kitchen timer. She calls, you say, I have two minutes, ad set the timer, and rigorously make yourself END THE CALL when YOUR TIME is up.
It's your time. Your brain. Your ear. Your serenity to defend. Your son. Your life. Your space. Your mind. Your life.
love
Hops
Hops
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Wow.... Hops.
::Raising hand in favor of NC::
Your post just drives home how toxic the smallest interactions are, for tayana.
I know I sound like a broken record but.....
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Lighter, Hops . . .
I haven't spoken with my mother today. I thought about calling her and decided not to. The phone works two ways, I decided, and if she didn't want to talk to me, I wasn't going to talk to her.
M and I splurged and ordered in pizza. Afterwards we went to a Harry Potter party. It was fun.
Even though I do have to go to work tomorrow at 7 am. I was not amused when I was told that at 4 this afternoon.
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Hmmmm what in the heck does M do when you have to be at work by 7am?
And.... how hard was it to NOT call your mother? Are you OK?
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I don't usually have to be at work that early, and I usually don't have to work on Saturdays. This was a special thing. M got to sit in the lunchroom and watch TV while he ate his breakfast. We were there loner than I thought we would be. M even got to help me once. He sort of saved the day.
Of course, I left he dog loose, forgot to turn on the TV for him, and he barked the whole time we were gone. the neighbors complained. Although the dog wasn't barking when I got home.
It was pretty hard not to call honestly, but it was good. I didn't tell her I had to work this morning. Right now we're waiting for UPS to bring our Harry Potter books.
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Ummmm...... why did they PICK YOU to work at 7am on Saturday?
Was it something JUST YOU could do or did nobody else wanna do it and you were low man on the totem or what?
Don't they know you had to bring your child and it would be a hardship for you on such late notice?
Sorry that happened to you. Maybe you need to communicate a little better with your boss and co workers about the transition time you're going through right now?
You'll remember the tv for the dog next time and so what he barked.... I've put up with tons of noise from neighbors. So it was you this once; ) They'll get over it.
(((tayana))) Good for you for sticking to your guns. Sorry it was hard.
I bet your mom was really surprised you were strong enough to avoid calling her. She's probably used to her little manipualtions working much better than that one did, eh? Expect something more dramatic and remember to step back and think before reacting to her, K?
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They picked me because only me and my co-worker go to these ridiculous meetings to hand-hold the elected officials. My co-worker is on vacation, so I was it. I told my boss my kid had to come. There was no real choice.
Well, I called tonight just to see. M is supposed to stay with her next week, but she didn't really want to talk to me it seems. In fact her words were, "What do you want?" She's mad because I didn't call last night I guess. I don't know. Or else she's mad over the financial stuff. I don't know. I don't even pretend to know.
She was mad because I let M spend some of his money on toys. She informed me they wouldn't be buying him toys or giving him cash for Christmas, he was getting savings bonds or clothes and that was it, because he just blows the cash. The idea of giving him cash was for him to buy something he wanted, and until now he'd been more interested in saving money. Now, he's found out that he has money and he can spend it, but I did tell him I wasn't letting him buy anything else.
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I hope your day worked out, despite everything.
As Gomer Pile said...
"SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE!"
Tayana's mother is mad at her for not calling?
Don't think so.
Letting M spend his money on toys?
Nah.
The financial stuff?
Uh uh.
She's mad because you're bucking her.
She's mad because you aren't allowing her to manipulate you.
She's mad because you aren't letting her prey on you any longer.
Darnit: (
Mama's aren't supposed to require those things from their lovely deserving children and you deserve so much better than that.
And the saddest part is...... she wasn't all that nice when you were doing most everything she demanded, under her roof where she wanted you. She was still awful and predatory, judgmental and cruel.
((((tayana)))) I'm so sorry this is still so hard.
What are you going to do if she doesn't make good on her offer to keep M next week?
Better be proactive with that one, just in case.
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Once school starts and you and M have your own family rhythm that does not depend on NarcoGrandma, life will be better, Tayana.
I sense you're really considering the boundaries thing. Keep at it! Learning new habits is just repetition, and it takes a while for them to stick. But you can do it, woman. You've done harder things, haven't you?
Remember: break the phone trance. Guard your ears, it's an entryway into your brain.
Your brain, your serenity, belong to YOU.
Really. You have the right to guard your personal inner space, and your little family, from a toxic, crazy-making woman.
We gotta get you Out There, too. Where a new circle of friends, voluntary aunties for M and sisters for you, are waiting.
love
Hops
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Hops
That reply was "brilliant" Love Ami
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Narcograndma? That's funny hops. :)
Here are some highlights of my weekend, and a response to Hops and Lighter.
Hops, I've contacted some support groups, but I haven't been to any meetings yet. I just seem to have so much stuff to do, and there's no time to do everything. I'm trying to unpack, keep up with normal day to day things, be mom, and I just don't have time for everything. I get so overwhelmed, and it doesn't help when I don't get enough sleep. That just makes me testy and crabby too.
Lighter, what you say is so true, so very true.
So here's the weekend highlights:
Saturday evening, my Harry Potter book finally arrived, and I dove right in. M and I were getting along pretty good. The place was totally trashed, and I didn't care. I was going to clean it up on Sunday, make it look nice. Put the rest of the books away, etc. I hadn't felt good Saturday, and I ended up staying up way to late reading Harry.
Sunday morning, I'd planned to go to the flea market so I could talk to my dad. I really like going to the flea market and buying junk even though I don't need anymore stuff. I was running late though, and I'd had four hours of sleep. I was tired and I almost shucked it. I'd decided to leave M at Grandma's so I could talk to my dad. My mom called just before we left to tell me that she had to take my father his keys because he'd locked himself out of the car. I'd almost decided just to take M with me, but I stuck with my original plan. I took the dog with me, so he could run on the farm and roll and eat nasty stuff.
The talk with my dad was pretty anti-climatic, pretty much, I can't do anything until my lawyer contacts me, and if he doesn't contact me, then I may fire him. I was pretty disappointed really. I did mention that I'd found out the bank the collection agency is trying to collect for no longer exists. The account is out of the statute of limitations for collection in my state, and the creditor is known for shady practices. Do I think I'm going to get out of this unscathed, not llikely.
So afterward, I went out to my parents house. I wanted to get more of my stuff, and M wanted stuff too. I have clothes and shoes in my closet now, although it's also full of boxes. I haven't started unpacking those yet. Here's a short list of my mother's comments to me while I was there.
"You think more of that dog than your kid."
"You don't ever talk to me anymore."
"You never told me he wasn't going to camp this week." (I did, three times, which I told her, because she had even made comments about him being there with her.)
"M is awfully distant."
"He's turned into a city kid."
"He's getting so bad. He just gets worse and worse." (Referring to behavior)
"Why didn't you tell us you had to work we would have come and got him." (I found out I had to work late, it was for a short time, and M was fine. I hadn't planned to tell her about this, but M spilled the beans).
"I knew you were going to have a problem with that dog."
There was more, those were just the really good ones. The first one is a killer. I wasn't frazzeled when we left. I'd made the most of the trip and enjoyed what I could, including the dog rolling in something gross. We went home and had a quick lunch, not a bought lunch, just something easy to fix. I started the laundry, did some cleaning, sat down to read some more. By this time, exhaustion crept up on me, and my temper was really short.
M caught the worst. I took the TV away after I told him for the fourth time to pick up his things in the living room and tidy up his room. He was mad. I started unloading the car, and he wouldn't help, even though most of the things were his. I was mad by now. He finally decided to help after I pretty much had the car unloaded. I told him to get his stuff put away. He pouted. I was still fuming. I had an even bigger mess now, and worst of all, I knew my mother would be coming down today to bring M back, so she would be in my house, making comments.
I hadn't gotten anything done, except the laundry and Harry of course.
It was too much. I just sagged in the middle of the floor. M and I were both upset at this point. He said it was all his fault that I was upset. I told him it wasn't, that it was mine because I was trying to do too much. I said let's go, go do something. We went to Big Lots to get some more hangers for the laundry and some other things. We forgot to turn the TV on so the dog barked. We came home to another note.
At that point, I was just demoralized. The place was still a mess, the dog had been naughty, I was exhausted. I fixed M something to eat and took the naughty dog for a walk. Talked to my mother again who wanted me to let M sleep late.
Talked to my brother and lost it on the phone because of all the crap I had heard that I'd managed to not let get to me in th emorning, but by the end of the day had gotten to me. I felt a little better afterwards. I picked up some of the mess, sent M to take a bath, I'd given him the TV back for the evening, mostly because I hated the silence, and he didn't even argue when I said it was mine after an hour. I made him get ready for bed at 9:30. He was out by 10.
The dog and I went to bed to read more of Harry. I'd managed to get the living room a little more presentable, the stacks of books out of the way and the kitchen picked up.
I ended up going to bed late, mostly because I wanted to read. Got up this morning and read some more over breakfast.
I still have about thirty pages left.
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Dear Tayana,
This is just a very small point. However, when My kids were small, I just let the house go. The number one priority is your emotions. You have to conserve your emotions so that you don't "lose it" with M. This would be my first priority.All the material things will still be there,but losing it with M will stay with him-. This is not a guilt trip=just a way to prioritize- Love Ami
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Tayana:
Instead of feeling guilty about being tired and short with M..... use it to teach him how to deal with stress and problems.
He'll have the same problems in his life, like everyone.
You can skip the guilt and calmly come back to M when you've taken a break.
You can explain that you were having a hard time and said some things/yelle/lost your patience got overwhelmed whatever.
Apologize for it, show him how to do that.
Then talk about what you're going to work on next time. Tell you how to deal with stress by doing it yourself and explain it.
Ask him for ideas on doing better next time.
Walking away, for 5 minutes or whatever announce it, when you realize your getting upset, next time. Teach him to find a way to blow off steam by finding a way to do it yourself. You will have your thing and he might go to his room and draw or read or whatever but work on finding ways to deal with stress.
Try to gain his cooperation and learn how to problem solve.
Guilt sucks. Use it as a teaching tool instead and then M will see how to take responsibity, apologize and work on doing better.
Thats what it's all about. Talk talk talk to him about your goals of staying calm and let him know it's OK to blow it but this is how we deal with it and try to do better next time. I probably said the same thing 10 different ways sorry.
(tayana) you're doing great. You're mother is toxic. Spend less and less time with her as you can and tape a note on your door to leave the tv on for the dog and be kind to yourself so M learns to be kind to himself: )
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Tay,
Hey I'm sitting in a mess right now. It's raining and I'm tired from working the yard all day yesterday so you know what? F** it. It will get cleaned but maybe not today. Oh well! Watch this is when unexpected company will show up.
Your doing fine Tay. Things sound normal. You are handling things Your Way now. Not that they always work out how we would like them to go but it's Your Way.
You sound really good. You should be proud.
Harry Potter? Oh I haven't read it yet but my D told me everything well mostly and I kind of could not wait. There ya go Tay, you helped me. The house is a mess I may just kick somethings out of the way and sit down and read.
The nice thing about being grown up and having your own place is when you don't feel like doing something, You Don't Have Too and who's going to yell at me, Me? Not today. Oh my D's room is a mess too. She just came back from vacation. I guess I should fix that. *closes the door*. There done fixed.
Your mom has some really silly comments. She is trying so hard to get reaction from you. I bet she gets on your last nerve. Ok mom the visit has been good. Time to go, see ya, we'll do this again real soon. Head to the car and let out a big *SHEW* shake your head, smile and be happy with your escape done so beautifully.
Enjoy yourself Tay and your son. You know who you are Tay you know what kind of mom you are. You are a good loving mom!
Deb
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Mega dittoes, Deb!
Your doing fine Tay. Things sound normal. You are handling things Your Way now. Not that they always work out how we would like them to go but it's Your Way.
You sound really good. You should be proud.
(((((((((((Tayana))))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((Deb)))))))))))))))
Hops
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Dear Tayana,
With a new Yorkie baby, my house is a mess, too Love Ami
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If it was a family member that did that to me
a part of me would WANT to put them in jail.
A part of me thinks that she should, a part of me really wants that. There's another part of me that's saying I'm a terrible person for wanting to put my mother in jail.
I think I'm going to talk to my mother when I go home to take my dog out. I can't talk long, but I'll give her a choice. She can either take responsibility or I'll let it go to trial. Maybe, by some miracle, she'll feel guilty and decide to do the right thing.
I just don't think I should have to accept the blame for this. I had nothing to do with it.
Well my place is clean too but --back to you tayana. Have you decicded what to do? Sometimes we are given too much time to think, but generally the first thought is the 'gut' thought and I have to agree that if a family member did this to me I wouldn't hesitate to take action.
My son-in-law (before daughter divorced him) owed me $55,000.00 so I put it in a lawyer's hands and it took some time, but eventually by garnishment of his wages , it was over. I don't regret that one bit.
There is a lesson here and many of us tend to forget--- our own family will screw us too. Also "Never a borrower nor a lender be". "Friends, Romans Xountrymen, lend me your ears-------------------------------------------------------" look at that man over there with a bag of ears,
Izzy
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Izzy:
I didn't know you collected on that loan.
I'm pleasantly surprised bc it always sounded like you were so completely screwed by him..... and he got away with it all.
I bet that really ticked him off.... and surprised him. At what point did you hire an attorney to get your money back?
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My week was made yesterday when my boss told me . . . ready for this? I'm getting a promotion. Totally unexpected. I'll have manager status which means I'll get sick time. I'll get a raise. It's going to be a good thing, and the timing couldn't have been better.
I took a couple of extra days off next week. I don't think I'm going to mention it to my mom, just take my days off, send M to camp, so I can do some things like unpack.
M got in trouble tonight for mouthing off, so he lost his TV. We went swimming and made brownies. His grandma had bought him a new movie today, but he didn't get to watch it. Terrible isn't it?
My mom was in a foul mood when I picked M up tonight. I'm not sure why. She kept trying to call me while I was talking to my brother about my patio garden, then when I called back she wouldn't even talk to me, so I talked to my dad about my efforts to teach M to swim. We floated tonight. That's an improvement.
The lawyer won't return my calls, so I'm sort of stalled on the legal front. He cashed my check though.
Deb, Harry was awesome. I liked the end.
The house is still a mess, but I don't really care. My mother won't set foot in here now.
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Tayana,
CONGRATULATIONS on your promotion!
I'm so glad you've got that good news!
You're a strong hardworking survivor woman!
This makes me happy! :D
And I'll congratulate you again if you stick to this about your upcoming days off:
I don't think I'm going to mention it to my mom
I just had 2 weeks off, with my mother out of the house, and I didn't breathe a word. A few days when I went to see her I was dressed in shorts. When she was alert to say something like, did you work today? I just said no, I had today off. I never told her I had a vacation (she would have said, well then, you have time to bring me home and take care of me).
Please take your days off for yourself and don't spend your precious life energy on your mother during them.
Hops
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YAY, TAYANA!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D
Wish you could see me dancing around for you! You are doing GREAT!
Love
CB
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Oh lighter,
I didn't notice that post until now. (I've been playing that game..... with my daughter.)
Yes, I collected on that loan and you know what? My daughter was ahead of me for garnishment of his wages, re child support. She suspended her collections, so I was bumped to the front until I was paid off; then she could go back on for the child support.
Oh he was ticked and I would have been more ticked if I'd had no chance--but daughter helped..... in spite.
I gave the lawyer everything to start the case in about 1993.
Thanks for noticing and asking
xx
Izzy.
I'm anxious to get to bed to read a new book--by Nelson DeMille. usually anbout 10:00 and read for 2-3 hours.--just after 9:00 now
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Two strong survivors..... Izzy and Tayana.
Izzy, you're dd suspsended her child collection so you could collect? That is an amazing thing to read. I had no idea she did that for you and I suppose I'll stop kicking rocks and eatin bologna samichs over your skipping my post to play games with her, lol; )
Tay..... congrats on the fantastic news about your job. I'm not surprised at all: )
Glad you resisted answering the phone when your mother was beeping in on your conversation with your brother. Glad to see you don't plan on having her into your home.
Sounds like M's being a pretty normal kid. You so rock taking him to the pool and baking with him. He's going to remember this the rest of his life, Tayana. Such a good mama, you are.
I feel serenity flow through me just picturing you having some off time in your little nest, organizing and relaxing a bit..... doing some things for yourself. (((Tay and M)))
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Hi Tayana,
I haven't posted to you in awhile but I've been reading along and I just wanted to chime in and say:
Yay!! Congrats on the promotion! Also on moving to your new home (is it starting to feel like home yet? I bet so!). On your gradual disengaging from your anynumberofadjectives mother and on the lovely job you're doing of juggling it all, while growing into your skin as and doing a wonderful job as ...sole parent of a dear son and dog.
Look how far you've come in such a short time!
Fantastic and I'm very happy for you! :D :D
Sela
PS: May I respond to some of your ma's comments, just to vent ('cause I'd really just like to put a pie in her face :x):
"You think more of that dog than your kid."
I don't have a goat.
"You don't ever talk to me anymore."
What for?
"You never told me he wasn't going to camp this week."
Yep.
"M is awfully distant."
He's learning. :)
"He's turned into a city kid."
I told you I don't have a goat.
"He's getting so bad. He just gets worse and worse."
Like his Granny.
"Why didn't you tell us you had to work we would have come and got him."
Exactly why I didn't tell you.
"I knew you were going to have a problem with that dog."
Hmmmm. (Scratches chin. Looks skyward) Maybe I should get a goat? :mrgreen:
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Heh, Sela.
I like you, lol.
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Tay,
Congrats on your promotion. Your doing great. I'm very happy for you and M.
Sela,
HAHHAHA
Thanks for the laugh. Funny funny post.
Deb
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That was great Sela
I loved it! We need humour.
Congrats Tay on the promotion and raise. That is always a boost to self.! You deserve it!
and Lighter,
I was playing that game last night emailed Daughter, then to bed and had response from her this a.m. We are in separate time zones. 3 hours diff.
Yes that was a sacrifice on her part to suspend child support payments. She must have known how long my garnishment would drag on, as she still has one child left under 18/16 whatever the rule is. He is 15. I would still be awaiting payments.
Love to all
Izzy
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I like you too Lighter!
Glad you laughed Deb and you appreciate the humour Izzy.
How was today Tayana?
Sela
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Hello!
Sela, you made my day! I ha d wonderful laughing fit that justgrew more and more raucous as I continued reading your post!
Tayana! I am so proud and happy for you! You are really enjoying a full life now, and thriving!
Hugs,
Changing
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Izzy: I always pictured your daughter as very angry at you, mesmerized by her N to the point of being blind.
I know she does have anger but, what she did seemed so touching.
Like she was extending a hand and sacraficing something she didn't have to sacrafice, bc she felt responsibilty for what happened between you.... TO you.
Keep playing those games and enjoying them with her. ((Izzy and daughter)) You both seem to be finding your voices: )
I'm going to go get some fresh berries and cream. I woke up around 2am and can't go back to sleep. Grrrr.
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Thanks for all of the congrats. I still don't know details yet. This morning I learned that details would be forthcoming September timeframe. I work for a government agency so things don't move exceptionally fast.
Sela, I loved your post. I think I'll trade my dog for a goat . . . I drove by my house this morning and he was yapping. I've been recording him, and it seems he yaps for a few minutes then settles down, but this morning was kind of odd, so he may have been yapping for three hours. I'll know when I get home for lunch.
Well, my mother just called me at work and ragged me out over how I wash my clothes because one of M's shirts shrunk. One of them, he'd never worn. And then she ragged me out because I haven't been able to get anywhere to buy him new shorts and his are too little. I only have so many hours in the day, and I can't just drop everything to go buy shorts. As for the shirts shrinking, the one shirt hadn't even been worn. I only put them in the dryer for a few minutes, and the one shirt he wore was too little to begin with. I don't care anymore.
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Oh, I forgot, in that moment of getting yelled at for how I do my laundry . . .
Hops, I'm not telling my mom about the days off. I told my brother he didn't know anything about it. I'm not going to tell M either, just go about the day as if it's normal. Just so I can go home and do some things. I might call in and check my messages here at work, but I doubt my mom will call. She only calls when she wants to rag on me.
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HIya Tayana,
Glad you loved the post. I have to say......it sounds funny and it is funny but I was half....no three quarters serious!! :shock:
Your mother calls you at work. To rag on you. :shock:
Please think about this......when little sweet M grows up and is an adult....a man......and has an office he works at....can you see yourself calling him at work to rag him out about anything? :shock:
Your mother does not act like a normal human being. She's like a two year old having mini tantrums and must have....demands issues be addressed....when she wants them to be....no matter what you or anyone else is doing. She phones. She rags. She gets her supply.
You give her what she wants. :|
((((((((((((sorry Tayana)))))))))))
Why do you explain a dang thing about the way you do laundry or anything else?
Why don't you ask her if she realizes that you're at work and you're busy?
Why don't you tell her you do not want her calling you at work any more, unless it's a dire emergency?
Why are you letting her behave like a spoiled brat?
She's an adult.
She can wait until you get home.
She won't die of a single thing until then, if she has to wait to address these issues.
When she calls: for example say:
"I'm at work and I'm busy. I won't discuss this issue now. Call me at home later please."
And hang up.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
These are issues, which have absolutely nothing to do with her and are totally NOT her business.
These are issues, which she does not deserve answers to.
And she is interfering in your life by calling at work, possibly disturbing more than just you.
Once and if she does call you at home, instead of giving her the answers she is demanding about stuff that is none of her business why not say something like:
"This is not your concern. I am dealing with it. How was your day?"
And if she refuses to carry on an adult conversation without criticizing and picking and belittling you......
Say: "Ya know what? I gotta go. The pot is boiling. Talk to you later."
And hang up!!
:shock: :shock: :shock:
She will not die, Tayana. And she will learn to behave reasonably or she will not have any conversations with you at all. That will be HER choice. You can be pleasant. You can be friendly and happy to hear from her....but the minute she starts to rag........
.......is the minute you need to end it. :!:
Give her an opportunity to correct herself or don't talk. Hang up and just go do whatever you have to do that does not involve in giving her the supply she is demanding of you. It's just not healthy. You will be surprised at how much more energy you have, once you stop letting her drain you on a daily basis. 8)
Seriously, she's like a vampire. I hope you will believe I'm trying to help (not putting you down in any way......just giving you questions to ask yourself and think about. No need to answer a single thing to me!)
Sela
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Izzy: I always pictured your daughter as very angry at you, mesmerized by her N to the point of being blind.
I know she does have anger but, what she did seemed so touching.
Like she was extending a hand and sacraficing something she didn't have to sacrafice, bc she felt responsibilty for what happened between you.... TO you.
Keep playing those games and enjoying them with her. ((Izzy and daughter)) You both seem to be finding your voices: )
I'm going to go get some fresh berries and cream. I woke up around 2am and can't go back to sleep. Grrrr.
Hi Lighter,
mesmerized by her N? Do you mean as in starry-eyed love?
I think if the truth be known, she was a sweet innocent sucked in by an N father figure, whom she thought was rich, and was into Charles and Princess Diana at the same I don't think she ever loved him, really, from actions/body language, but she did tell me she stopped loving him the day their first child was born...or.....brought home from hospital so that's.... meet in 1983, marry 1984, have baby 1986, leave 1994, divorce 1996 and the hardest thng to admit, which hasn't yet happened is that I asked her to please NOT marry him.
I think her anger shifts around at me, at N, at her first born...living with N and becoming N-ish
When I think of her, I have promised myself to say "My daughter and I can exchange pleasant emails". it works. i don't have negative thoughts and am telling her story as though i read it somewhere.
She and her 18 year old daughter appear to get on. I would say she is like her mother, as in beautiful and smart, very smart, academically anyway!
I thought it was a wonderful thing she did but never admitted for me--she said she was making too much money re Income Tax and had to lower her income. I don't believe that.
She knew I wouild need money in my old age, hobble hobble :mrgreen:
love
Izzy
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Sela,
Sorry, I have been enjoying two whole days of no nmom. I even got a bunch of boxes unpacked tonight. I washed the down blankets I didn't dare wash in my mother's precious washer. She had the nerve to complain about my dog shedding and getting hair in her washer too. He's a dog. Part of owning a dog is dealing with things like that. Well she doesn't have to worry now. The dog doesn't live with her anymore.
I wanted to reply to your post. I am working on the phone thing, mostly I am curtailing my need to call her. It's a baby step I know, but I seem to do better with baby steps. I didn't call her at all Friday. I talked to her for about five minutes when I picked my son up. That was all the contact I had that day. I did call today to tell her I would not be going out to her house tomorrow. I simply explained that I wanted to stay home and work. She wasn't happy. I could tell, but I don't really care. My conversation was short, consisted of telling her about the Harry Potter movie, the baseball game and the weather.
My next step is to put an end to the critical calls at work. I have never liked her calling me at work, and she takes a great deal of pleasure in calling. She used to call me several times a day, but moving seems to have changed that. I am not upset by the change.
Tomorrow, I'm going to spend a blissful n-free day, shopping and putting things away. I told my son we may just unpack every box still in the living room, just so I can find the book I was reading when we moved.
Thanks for your post, Sela. I'm getting there, slowly, but surely.
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Izzy: I always pictured your daughter as very angry at you, mesmerized by her N to the point of being blind.
I know she does have anger but, what she did seemed so touching.
Like she was extending a hand and sacraficing something she didn't have to sacrafice, bc she felt responsibilty for what happened between you.... TO you.
Keep playing those games and enjoying them with her. ((Izzy and daughter)) You both seem to be finding your voices: )
I'm going to go get some fresh berries and cream. I woke up around 2am and can't go back to sleep. Grrrr.
Hi Lighter,
mesmerized by her N? Do you mean as in starry-eyed love?
Good Lord no, lol. I meant mesmerized in the way that she's been taken in by an N and accepts his reality bc it means less abuse and pain..... but not really.
I'm sure her anger goes around and around to you and N and her oldest child... that makes sense. Lots to deal with.
You keep showing her how to overcome, Izzy. That'll go a long way in helping her. Loved your post; )
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Hi, Izz...
I think it will be very big for you when you really, truly, finally experience the release of your need for your D to say to you: "You were right. You told me so."
Hi Tayana...
So excited to hear about your healthier days. You're doing great.
I was going to say that Sela's amazing post reminded me I had to literally "re-train" my mother than I wouldn't jump to the phone or stay on the phone. It was amazing. It works. Most of all, I re-trained myself out of the need. I face her need for talk and constant "plucking" as real, as insatiable, and I turn away without hating myself any more.
love
Hops
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Hi lighter and hops,
I've pretty well reached the point that I do NOT want any more talk about her N, just as I don't talk about mine....both long gone.
Now that she told me when she stopped loving him, I can really put that relationship into perspective, even if she didn't love him at the start. The start is where I, lighter, would use the word mesmerized...taken in/hypnotized with that initial charm, the thought that he was rich, snagging an older man, whatever things that attracted her to him. After all, it happened to me and I can see how it happens.
So from what she says, it took only 3 years for her to face reality, '83-'86. I saw them together and her alone from '86-'91 and nothing made sense as to why she stayed. Now that I know about N-ism I can see how she was abused, isolated and trapped. I couldn't put a name to this back then.
Therapy is good for me.
Love
Izzy
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Izzy....
Gotta love the therapy; )