Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on July 24, 2007, 02:25:24 PM
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I don't know how to title this except for a deep cry for help.
I was starting to get over these physical symptoms of coming out of denial.
However,now more things have happened and I feel awful again.- like I am going to pass out
I just need help.
I called my Aunt today. I finally was "real" with her and told her about my life with my M. She was shocked-- totally. .
I cried and she had such good advice. It felt so wonderful to have a "normal relative." I just felt like I was sitting in the warm sun ,.It just felt so good to talk to someone who had some wisdom about life. She was shocked that I would feel worthless. She said that I I was a lovely girl who had a good character and I should have value for myself.She said that I should not take anything else to heart. It was simple advice, but it felt" real' and good-- not totally crazy like talking to my mother.
However, she told me that my F was coming down to visit me today. They lives 2000 miles away . I had no idea about this. I called up and begged him not to come. My F is very sweet.I just do not want to face one more thing.
Down deep, I am happy that he cares enough to make the trip to see me. It really surprises me. However, I really, really don't want him to come. I am coming out of so much denial with my H and my S that it feels too over whelming to have him and HIS denial here,too.
I could not convince him not to come-- so he is coming
One thing that "shocked " me that my Aunt said was that her daughters felt really strong in themselves.I think that I am coming out of denial about how bad it actually was with my M. Her daughters and son have achieved a lot in life. They feel good inside.This really hurt me b/c I saw very clearly how much I missed. It just hurt so badly to see how much I suffered b/c I had a monster and they had a kind mother. It just hurts and hurts. They had someone to under gird them .I had the monster hiding under the bed. I had unremitting stress and anger. They had a soft place to fall. The only way that I can even cope with the pain is to know that I found God b/c of it. It is so pitiful to have to suffer at the hands of an N. I always identified with the Little Match girl story. She was outside in the cold and looking in the windows of the rooms with loving family. I looked at my Aunts family like that.Every time that the match girl lit the match-- she was transported in to the room and was part of the family until she lit all the matches and died in the cold.
My son(golden) has totally turned against me. I see that my H is an N and it is hopeless.
I need to have myself and that is the hard part -- to feel like I am worth something after all this betrayal and rejection. It is so hard to see beyond it to my inherent value.I hate myself--too- just like they taught me to and I am alone without even me, I am just so scared, overwhelmed and hurting.
The worst part is that I am believing them and turning against myself too .I have to fight EVERYONE. Everyone is against me ( except one son and Maria)My H, Golden son and mother are trying to destroy me. My father is in denial. I need to be there for myself. Instead I am getting sick and dizzy.What I want is myself . What I need is myself ,but I don't feel that I am there for me Ami
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What I need is myself ,but I don't feel that I am there for me Ami
sounds like a lot of trauma catching up with you.
Glad you received some family love and hope you feel better soon (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Ami,
We can try to be there for you, if you can keep posting.
Why did your father decide to come to see you, from such a long way away, without consulting you first? Has he done that before? He's not bringing your mother, is he?!
Your aunt sounds like she's going to be there for you, now.
I have to go now, but I'll post again later.
Try not to be upset, Ami, it'll get better with time, honest!
Janet
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I called my Aunt today. I finally was "real" with her and told her about my life with my M. She was shocked-- totally.
Oh No! You mean the two sisters don’t know one another’s personality and lives?
She could be like a therapist to you. Can you believe what she says about you? I’m sure she means it, and it sounds like a good relationship when you can be honest with her.
You know it is your home and you can refuse to accept someone into your home. will your father stay with you? He might see what is happening, or you might just a few days of peace from son and husband. Did he not call you, but called your Aunt?
Many of us feel cheated out of a childhood, or the fact we have not been taught life skills, but we still can take a page from someone else’s book on how to get through life. Any feelings of self-pity when comparing can only thwart your progress.
My son(golden) has totally turned against me. I see that my H is an N and it is hopeless
Would you think of divorce? As Ns never change. Did your son just begin his disrespect of you?
There is also the “fake it til you make it” in learning to be stronger for yourself.
Good Luck
Izzy
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Hi Ami,
Sweetie, I am so sorry for the pain you are in. You didn't deserve this. None of it!
I know how painful & scary it's going to be facing your father. Maybe, just maybe, he'll really listen this time & come out of his denial. Do you think it's possible?
I feel the same way you do, having being raised by an NMother. And my Aunt finally realizes ALL about what I went through & is supportive, too. I know, WHY didn't they help us when we REALLY needed them?
They were fooled. Everyone was. You & I both know that's the beauty of an N.
As far as kids go, my oldest daughter (whom I'm the closest to), loves me, but always tells me to "get over it". She cannot & will not fathom the pain I am in. So, I try not to talk to her about it.
It's just impossible for anyone else to understand what we've been through. BUT, I DO!
And, I'm here for you!
Love,
Bigalspal
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Ami,
Try to ignore the twiddling. Focus on the positive.
Your aunt sounds like she'll talk things over with you, now that she knows the full story from you.
As to your father's visit - is it likely that he's been sent to 'suss out' how you are doing, by your NMum?
Occasionally, I get contacted by my NMum's latest boyfriend-of-the-moment - as if they're being oh-so-caring, when in fact they're snooping on her behalf.
I don't know much about your father. Is this the kind of thing he'd be co-erced into doing for her? Does he want to find out how you are, for your sake, to keep the relationship between you going, now that you've gone NC with your mad mother?
Janet
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Thanks so much for responding. I went to do some things around the house and when I came back -- 5 people cared enough to respond. I needed that love. It helps me feel that I can go on.Maria is here,today. She said that your worth is given to you by God---not people.
Maybe, I really am worth something .,Maybe I really can value myself as a worthwhile person.
I always wanted to ask my Aunt that question about her daughters. My aunt is honest and would not give a PC answer. She said that her daughters have a good trust and confidence in themselves. I needed to know the reality of what it is like for people with kind mothers. It is true that they live in a totally different world.
I got my answer. It is also, true that I have to take what I got and go on.-- like Izzy says
I begged my F not to come down.He did not listen, even though he hates to travel. Inside me, I feel that my M made him come. It does not ring true to me that he wants to see me face to face and talk.
It does not feel right. He has never had a mind of his own.I feel violated b/c I begged him not to come.He left a message on my cell phone on Fri and I did not get it.so, I did not call him, then
I could be wrong about him. He could be having a soul searching time.
My H is a true N .Whether I stay or leave is not the point,now. I will figure it out later. The point is to face it.Facing the betrayals is mind boggling.That is where I am now-- facing all the betrayals
Love Ami
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Hi Ami & Shunned,
Shunned, I think that is wonderful advice that you gave Ami. I really do. :)
But..I don't know what it is about people like me & Ami. (Ami, I hope it's ok to say this?)
Seems like we took it all in too deeply. I know I did. I can hear what everyone is saying, but putting it into practice is another thing. I think maybe it just HAS to come out. It might take awhile, too.
Ami, I've had friends that have been hurt & can get over it (seems like) quickly.
They just make up their minds...and it happens. Maybe they can fake it better than me. Or maybe my wound is VERY deep & hasn't been exposed to a healthy way of healing? I don't know. I really don't. I wish I could mother myself. I've tried, but it hasn't worked.
How do you do that? Mother yourself? If that means telling yourself the opposite as what she told me, I have done that. I do that everyday. Her voice is just louder than mine. It drowns out every positive thing I say. How do you stop her voice?
I just really relate to what you are saying, Ami.
But....we will get there, my friend!
Love,
Bigalspal
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Hi Bap
Mother yourself?
Be you as a little girl and think of what you need/want and then be your own mother and give it to yourself--love, understanding, praise, a sense of worth, all the things you missed......... all the while watching yourself grow from a little girl onward.
Make sense?
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Izzy,
I suppose it does, in theory. I mean, I know she's the sick one. I know that.
I try to be nice to myself, I really do. I get it.
But knowing it & really KNOWING it, well..I think that's 2 different things.
I haven't been here very long, Izzy. I don't think this will happen anytime soon. This magical thing. Waking up and suddenly have 100% change. I think it's not reasonable to think, or expect that.
I'm being honest with you, Izzy. I want you to tell me if you think I'm wrong.
I know it might get tiring to hear me or anyone else vent like this. But, I think that all anyone really wants to do in a post like Ami's. Just let it out, let it flow. I have been frozen for sooo very long. I'm sorry if it makes someone uncomfortable. If it doesn't do that to you, Izzy, I'm glad. I need all the love I can get right now. I know it must seem so frustrating for someone like you, who has overcome so much in her life, to see someone like ME, who's NOT disabled & still not getting it.
But if you give me time & patience, I will.
Love,
Bigalspal
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Hi Bap
I am off to the therapist's now and I believe in therapy.
Write a list of all the Good things about you. Can you do that? There wasa time I couldn't
I am honest, trustworthy, a good worker, punctual, have a sense of humor, am strong, competent--like that--that is me, but tell me everything positive, not one thing negative.
Send a PM if you don't want that part here.
and No, it doesn't happen overnight!
CYA later
Izzy
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Hi Shunned & Izzy,
Shunned- I'm so glad you revealed all of that to me. I appreciate the candor.
And, some days I can be positive about myself. I really can. Like I said on a previous post, my community (I live in a small town) would never guess I'm feeling this way. I've revealed things to this board that I've never told ANYONE. I have a big mask on for all of humanity to see. They think they know me, but they have no idea. It's funny, they think of me as nice & cheerful. I used to be the morning announcer on our local radio station for almost 9 yrs. & boy, I should have an Oscar for acting! Thank goodness, my mother lives in another state! Because I've had my husband & kids & grandkids on my show & wouldn't it be awful to have to explain HER! :(
Anyway, my friend, thank you.
Izzy- I believe in therapy too. One day I will be signing up for some. The problem I've had is that I'm afraid to dig all this up with a real, live human being. Not that you guys aren't, it's just I have protection of some sorts behind this keyboard. This is why I've never used or revealed my real name.
That might not ever happen.
Too scary. But, I will in time, be going for therapy.
And I think your idea is excellent. I don't mind sharing my list with the board. It might take me awhile to get up the nerve. But, I promise I will. It might be good for me.
Thanks for all the advice.
Love,
Bigalspal
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This thread has been so healing--- thank you so much, Friends.
Shunned- you said something that was a cool balm to me. You said that you get better gradually and one day you just notice the 'sun"( if I have it right)
This gave me the peace that I needed. I am getting better-but it is gradual.
I wanted to talk about the debate between "get over it" and it takes time. I don't want to create any controversy. This is simply my experience. I think that a person with very deep wounds gets over it very slowly and very gradually. I am getting better,but it is slow. Many people will tell you that you are taking "too long". Today, Maria(with love) told me that I should be over it now(in so many words).I realize that most people will not understand this.. Either they were not hurt that badly or they are not facing the deep hurt(IMO).Her H got it b/c he had a N MIL in a prior marriage. he gets how awful and damaging N's are.
I know from experience that I simply could not heal"fast" . I tried everything. What helped me was the sharing on the board. I had to know that I was not alone. I had to reveal my pain. I had to talk with people who had gone through the same thing and come out of it.
For me,therapy would not be good for many reasons,but one big one is that I need the community of others who have been through the same thing. If I sit with an authority and share my guts, I would feel even more isolated. I need someone who has been there to "touch me" I do not want to get in to a discussion of the merits or not merits of therapy. This is my opinion and experience.
The main point is that deep pain must be honored. It is a powerful force that must be respected like a hurricane or tornado.
It is very damaging to a deeply wounded person for someone to tell them that they should be "over it" by now. Love Ami
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Ami,
However long it takes you to 'get over it' is the right speed for you. Anyone else's speed is right for them. It's a very personal thing, and no-one really knows what is the 'right' speed, or way of healing, for anyone other than themselves, and even then it's difficult to know!
It's a journey, and you're only just starting, but you're going in the right direction. That's all you can do.
IMO, I think your friend Maria is a little 'off' to say you should be over it by now. What you've revealed on here of your past will take a lot longer to heal than the time you have been aware of it, so far.
I've 'known' consciously what I'm up against (rather than trying and trying to make it right with my NMum) for about 15 years. It's so much better now than then, that sometimes I think it all happened to a different person.
Then, like last week, I have another nightmare and wake up crying.
But that's healing for you - it's inconsistent!
I agree with you about therapists - I think a group setiing, or a forum like this one is much more helpful than one 'professional' person.
Hope things calm down a bit for you, Ami.
Janet
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I agree with you about therapists - I think a group setiing, or a forum like this one is much more helpful than one 'professional' person
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Janet and others,
From my experience, and remember I am 68 and first saw a psychaitrist at 19 and have been in and out of single and group.
This Board is THE BEST place I have been and This therapist is the best I have had,
First the therapist--because I knew exactly what to tell her was 'wrong' with me so she knew how ro work with me and I've had 2 breakthroughs in this last month.
When it comes to Groups, now this is just me, I could go only so far in that room with people all having different things to say and my forming opinions one way or another because that person was live and REAL: revealed a very personal item to the group, so there was a different 'feel' after that.
I also found that in Al-Anon and CODA.
I never had a breakthrough with any other therapist because I expected them to tell me what was "wrong".
Izzy
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I think that the profound, intellectual answer would be "Whatever gets you through the night".. Ami
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Ami,
I was writing about ME.
I did not find that profound nor intellectual at all. I found it sarcastic.
Plase apologize.
Izzy
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Dear(((((((((((((( Ami))))))))))))))))
I'm so sorry you are in so much pain. The betrayal and the lies the feeling dizzy , I know how you feel. I just wanted to say you are a beautiful person with extraordinary insight, You were in so much pain today and still reached out to me. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for being there for me and I hope I can repay the kindness . It still amazes me that these people can't see any of these qualities and love and cherish the person for them. I can see and feel all these wonderful , caring , loving qualities in you and I have only typed with you. The loss is there's my friend. not yours
Love Tweety
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Dear Besee and Tweety,
THANK YOU. I am overwhelmed by your kind responses . Love and Big Hug Ami
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I have to say for me personally, when someone says to me "Get over it" "Your not over it yet" , very damaging to me. it's like I'm be invalidated. It's very painfull. Everyones wounds are different. Some of ours run deep , right down to our souls. Everyone heals in there own time at there own pace. People shouldn't compare there insides to other peoples outsides. Healing takes place in our time and in God's time. some wounds don't heal, they may not be as "infected" as they use to be, those wounds we just learn to live with.......... Take as much time as you need ((((((((((((Ami))))))))))))
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I have to write about my father.. He arrived here in my city. He is staying in a hotel. He called me. I got a really funny feeling about it. He did not sound like a contrite person wanting to connect with a "lost" daughter who he has not seen for 7 years. He seemed "evil" in the way that Peck writes about it in People of the Lie'
I got the sense of the movie character with a smile,but who is hiding the evil inside. If this is so, it is so horrible ,beyond words. I feel like the character in Rosemary's Baby'. She kept trying to find someone to help her. . Finally, she thought that she had found somone to help her. He was a doctor-well dressed, well spoken, in a nice office ... She finally got to his office and was breathing hard and thanking God that she was finally O.K. Then,it turned out that he was a bad guy, too.
I feel like I am in Rosemary's Baby. I feel sick all over. I would like to tell my father not to come over. Then,my H will probably go behind my back and betray me. IF what I am feeling is real, I am dealing with evil. I hope that it is not . My body feels like it is, though.
If I did not have God, I could never, ever, ever face this . Knowing that you are there, Dear Friends really helps. 'Regular people ( even Maria) don't understand N's. My older son worked with an N for 8 months. She practically destroyed him.After that , he understood about my Mother. Very few people get how destructive N's are . Janet, your comments started me thinking about this. I really, really hope that it is not true. Love Ami
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Tweety, you are so right!
I KNOW it's hard for people (my family included) to understand how damaging "Get over it" is.
It definitely invalidates us.
All our lives we have heard this. I think that phrase has hurt me more than any phrase ever has or will. It's just brutal. It says "I don't care.".
And, that's something we just can't stand.
Give me that magic formula. I want it now. I'll empty out my bank account for it.
I know Ami & I and all of you that believe in God, will be set free someday.
I know it! I might be dead & gone & in heaven, but it will happen.
I'm hoping I get release before I die.
And I know to the day I do die, that I will always want my mommy!
Give me my mommy!
The one I was supposed to get. Heck, give me my daddy, too!
I didn't get one of those either.
Yes, I know I sound like I'm 2 yrs old. That is where I'm stuck. I know that better than any of you do. You don't have to tell me I'm 2 yrs old.
Dang, here comes the tears AGAIN!
But, you know what? That's OK, because I'm thawing out.
Love,
Bigalspal
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ami, not too long ago I felt lost and broken.
remember dear spirit, the Lord will never give you more than you can bear.
I am so glad you mention the book The People of the Lie, that book is what saved me. I always knew evil existed, but never in the way he explained it.
when people say get over it it's because they don't want to feel your feelings. think about it. if you see a car crash you wince at the man being carried away in the stretcher because you can FEEL the pain he's in.
we are all connected
but People of the Lie fight against that connection. they push people away through lies, pain and hurt and they do so callously and without thought for the other person.
the other day my father called. my daughter said: your father is on the phone.
he spoke to me like you would speak to a neighbor who you don't know to well, about the weather and such. this is all he's capable of. he has no relationship with me or my children and until recently I hadn't seen him in years.
if anyone attempted to get closer to them he would damage them horribly.
in fact, whenever I get around him I can feel him working on my spirit, challenging me, trying to discredit me, fight with me, make me wrong.
it is something I call the transference of spirits.
it is like he's trying to transfer his spirit of contention and self-hatred onto me.
with any encounter with him I walk away feeling icky.
but when I'm with beautiful, loving, honest people I feel wonderful. I bask in their glorious spirit.
my advice is to spend minimal time with negative people if you can.
surround yourself with love and kindness and you will start to feel differently. you are already changing, it's just that you can't see it now.
I say this all for you as much as for you as for myself -- I have faith that peace and love and happiness will be abundant in my life and for all those who seek it.
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Ami,
If thats the way you feel than TRUST yourself. Can you find the strength to say NO , you won't meet with him, if this is really how you are feeling. Something inside you is trying to tell you something LISTEN.
Love Tweety
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I feel like I am in Rosemary's Baby. I feel sick all over. I would like to tell my father not to come over. Then,my H will probably go behind my back and betray me. IF what I am feeling is real, I am dealing with evil. I hope that it is not . My body feels like it is, though.
If I did not have God, I could never, ever, ever face this . Knowing that you are there, Dear Friends really helps. 'Regular people ( even Maria) don't understand N's. My older son worked with an N for 8 months. She practically destroyed him.After that , he understood about my Mother. Very few people get how destructive N's are . Janet, your comments started me thinking about this. I really, really hope that it is not true. Love Ami
Ami..... you sound so overwhelmed right now and I really think it would help to have someone real on your side that does understand N's.
Besides your son.
I'm concerned for your children as is without your son having to be your confidant.
You need more support for yourself so you can be strong for them too.
I'm concerned about all three of you in that house with an angry raging violent man, esp while you're trying to stand up to him and feeling so off balance.
I get so much validation from this board but..... checking in with a Therapist does two things.
Provides understanding and information about N's and provides documentation in case you do end up in court.
(((Ami))) You don't have to see your father if you don't want to. You're an adult and you may make choices. Or go to the beach till he leaves: /
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Ami,
Sweetie, I guess we were posting at the same time, because I didn't see your post about your father until now.
Oh boy, I hope you are wrong!
I hope he hasn't come to hurt you. You know your F better than we do. Do you think he's trying to dig for information to take home with him to hurt you with?
I do know it's possible.
My 2 brothers are tattling on each other, even as we speak, to our NMother. My aunt heard it herself.
They both live together, due to failed relationships (anyone surprized?) and run to mother & compete for her attention. Not because they LOVE her, but because she has MONEY. :x
I HATE those kind of games. But, I'm sooo guilty of it, too! :(
I live too far away to see her, but now & again she calls & I suck right up to her.
Ami, I sure hope you're not right. For your sake. That would be awful!
We love you & if that happens, well, you can tell us all about it.
Love,
Bigalspal
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Dear Friends,
Thanks to all of you and my older son, I told my F not to come over tomorrow..
I told my F that if he wanted to try to foster more lies about my M, then I did not want to see him. at all I got a weird feeling that he was not reacting"right". , I would have had a different response--- a more contrite one .He did not sound contrite. It was more--" whatever you want. me to say-- I will. "It did not have the emotions of contrition is what I am trying to say.
He just called me. I guess what it is is that she practically killed me and he is acting like he is apologizing for something small. He DID apologize for trying to make her actions right. However,it did not feel like it had the emotional gravity that it should have.
He just called and his voice did not seem to have the caring associated with someone who had betrayed someone(me) so badly that I almost died.
I don't know.Thanks for being there. Any thoughts would be really welcomed Love Ami
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Hi Ami...
He's just a man. A middle-aged confused man who doesn't know what he's doing or what to do or why he's doing it.
Does he wear glasses?
Does he have any age spots?
Does he really like his work, or is it just a job?
He's probably paid a price too, from being in your mother's orbit.
One day, when you feel stronger, you'll see that he's just a man.
Meanwhile, sending you strength for this encounter.
You will be okay, but I do echo Lighter...you need some real-world balance people.
Not just Maria and a Yorkie in 3-D world.
We're here, but we're in the ozone, hon. Please find some 3D-world support too.
I think Bob Dylan sang, "...You've gotta trust somebody..."
Hops
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Ami,
Oh boy, I know that must have hurt.
I guess he's trying to play both ends to the middle.
Keep you happy & live with NMother.
We both know who's gonna win, & that sucks!
I'm so sorry, sweetie. I wish it could've ended better for you. :(
Love,
Bigalspal
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Thanks Hops,
I will try to not think that he is evil b/c it is too much to bear and I feel like I will throw up if I keep thinking about it.
I will go to bed thinking about what you said . Hopefully, he has just been around evil,but he is not . I am going to internalize what you said so that I can cope. Love Ami
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Hey Ami,
While I was surfing around I came across this and read some of it that reminded me of what you seem to be going through now. It's not all of it because some of it did not apply. Well I think we all went through this at some point.
So I want to paste it this part.
One of the reasons other people wanted us not to express our feelings is that they felt our power and didn’t want to, (didn’t know how to) deal with it. Quickly they taught us how to keep our power out of their way. The less we express, the least powerful we are, and the less anyone has to bother about us. You see, people have to do things like negotiate with powerful people. They have to take them into consideration, listen to them, and maybe not get what they want from them. They are powerful people, who know what they want and what is best for them. They cannot be easily manipulated. So another side affect of expressing our feelings, past and present, is the return of our esteem for Self, care for our Self and the understanding that "you are the MOST important person in your life". In fact you are the ONLY person in your life. Everybody else is in their own life, (fortunately).
As the "plug" starts to move, so does our creativity and inspiration. We start getting feelings of what we want to do, and as we follow them we find that our whole life begins to change. Now we are having strong feelings on a day-to-day basis. Feelings that cannot be denied and that can bring us to some important, and sometimes difficult decisions.
Up until this point in our lives, we have made our choices out of programming. This programming was largely about what other people wanted from us. It takes courage to now turn around to those people and let them know that we not going to be doing that any more, that they are responsible for their own lives, and that we are going to be responsible for ours. Sometimes that means that our paths need to separate, because their road is not our road. Maybe it never was, but neither of us could see that at the time. These are difficult times but as Shakespeare once said, "First unto thy own Self be true, and it follows.....that thou cans't not be false to any man”. By being true to the Self inside, we set everyone free to be true to their own self. If that is to go their road with us, so be it. If not, there is a perfectly good road of their own that they should be following. Fitz Perls, a very wise man said, "in order to be responsible to yourself, you have to be irresponsible to everyone else."
The funny thing I found is that the more honest about my feelings I am able to be with those around me, the more they respect me. It’s as if watching our example gives them permission to be that way too. It shows them another way, especially if they happen to be our own children watching, and learning from us, as we did from our parents. Don’t do it for them! Show them how its done, by doing it for yourself! Of course there will always be people in our lives that are not ready for this, and they will go off and find someone else to continue to play the old mind-games with. That’s as it should be. Every one knows where they are at, deep inside of them. They also know when they are ready.
So, in closing, let me say that the path of the Self is not an easy one to follow, but it sure beats going round and round in circles
Ami,
I think that this is all that gunky stuff you had backed up (emotions) trauma and the plug is starting to move. You have had enough.
This is your return of esteem for self.
It was so easy to take your power as a child manipulate the hell out of you. What could you do? Children are such easy prey.
This programming was largely about what other people wanted from us. It takes courage to now turn around to those people and let them know that we not going to be doing that any more, that they are responsible for their own lives, and that we are going to be responsible for ours.
This is what you are doing Ami and grieving at the same time. Very difficult and tremdous pain. You are dealing with your past and present.
It's overwhelming but you are going to be ok.
Hang in there one day at a time. I think you have lots of courage.
Deb
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Deb,
That was a brilliant quote - which website was it from?
Ami,
I'm sorry if what I suggested seems to be what has turned out to be the case..that is, your father was there on a snooping mission.
That's so hard to deal with. When you say that he didn't sound properly 'contrite' as if he wasn't apologising meaningfully for the huge issues from the past, do you mean that he kind of said 'I'm sorry IF YOU THINK I hurt you in the past' or 'I'm sorry IF YOU THINK THAT things weren't right'? That kind of thing? I think it was CB (sorry if I've got that bit wrong, I'm terrible with names!) who said a few weeks aback about the language people use to apologise, and the way it either takes responsibility, or channels it back to you, which isn't apologising at all.
Pal,
I think you've got a good point there - he's got to live with the N, so he's probably trying to appease both Ami and her NMother, for a reasobnably qiuet life. No excuse, though, but that's possibly what he's doing (badly).
Ami, I hope he keeps his word and doesn't try to visit you.
Janet
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Thank you so much. Honestly, the wisdom on this board is unsurpassed.The love and caring is mind blowing--- Thank you so ,so much.It helps me to realize just how beautiful it is to get words of wisdom and understanding when you are parched and aching.Tell me the therapist who would know what you, here,know.Then I will go-(lol.)
Deb--- What a "right" word for the 'right" time---, You expressed totally and perfectly what the issue is. I am amazed how you could see it so clearly when it was so "dark" to me. That is what I am going through in a nutshell. Thank you so, very much.
It is uncomfortable for people who have kept you down to see you "go up".You threaten them when you want to be whole when the dynamic in the family FORBIDS wholeness. That is the dilemma.
My father gave a 'real' apology. It did not "feel"contrite enough.but it was real. I said,"I don't want you to come over if you are going to push me down to death(lies) like you would do in the past. I literally almost died trying to lie and I won't anymore.
He said that he was sorry that he used to call me and try to force me to accept her lies.(He was the messenger boy to try to make me think that I was wrong ,when she had acted horribly.and was wrong)) I believed him. He was really the reason that I lost myself.I never thought that he would lie to me.I thought that he would put my welfare,first. He put his own needs first.
He got it, I think. I expected more" feeling",but it was a real apology. I think that he wants to make it right with me, for himself. I guess that he really does love me. He was just weak from his own family. Emotions were not allowed in his FOO. Many were obese--- the woman. His sister was a "yo-yo" and lost and gained several hundred pounds. She was a psychologist for a weight program. Her daughter was the same way. She had a gastric by pass and then gained 100 pounds back. They were very afraid of anger..They also, derived their sense of self from people pleasing and outside approval. So, my father has issues of co-dependency-- for sure. He has been in Al-Anon for 13 years. He told me that he wants to make it right with me--- for himself--- not b/c she sent him.
Today, I feel like I can go forward.Thank you again, every dear person who posted Love Ami
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Dear Ami, I do not know what to say. Just that we are here with you and that we pray for you everyday. We love you.
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Oh Ami.
What a gift you have just received.
Your father's apology, and his love.
I am so glad for you.
And moved.
He's just a human being.
It's wonderful that he's been in Al-Anon.
I imagine he's learned so much there.
Hops
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to "touch me" I do not want to get in to a discussion of the merits or not merits of therapy. This is my opinion and experience.
The main point is that deep pain must be honored. It is a powerful force that must be respected like a hurricane or tornado.
It is very damaging to a deeply wounded person for someone to tell them that they should be "over it" by now. Love Ami
Dear Ami:
I'm sorry your one support IRL, Maria, thinks you should be over this.
For some reason, she's at the point where she thinks you should be growing past a certain point.... and not going over the same things?
Perhaps this is a lot for one "friend" to have on her shoulders?
That's sad bc I had hoped you were attending those support groups and finding community there.
I'm sure Maria sees things from her outsiders view and feels compelled to share with you, for whatever reason, her thoughts.
That's one of the downsides to having regular old people be your only supports.
They don't know exactly 'how' to do it.
They don't know how to do it and not get burned out, or at least act like they're not burned out.
A T does.
I can say that Maria seems to have shared her truth with you about how she sees your situation.
At least your friend is honest with you.
Hope you continue healing and get your boys out of that terrible situation with an abusive violent father.
None of you deserves to live in fear like that.
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Ami,
I am a little late on this topic. Seems like you are getting so many wonderful comments, ideas, and supports. I have had so many days where I needed to cry for help and no one has been there to hear. I know I am not much, but I do hear you and the pain and panic and flooding of emotion.
It will all be fine. Maybe even better than fine.
I send some hugs and quiet and peaceful thoughts to you.
--mof4
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Dear Lighter,
I am coming to the conclusion that very few people in the general population, support groups or therapists really understand about N's- in a heartfelt way.My mother has been in therapy for over 30 years and no therapist ever told her about N.My father and brother have been in almost continual therapy. No one ever mentioned the elephant in the living room---- N .I have been in therapy for many years.When I would describe my M--- no one ever mentioned N.
I think that I will have to compartmentalize my life. You--- on the board GET IT about N's. Maria is a wonderful,lovely person,BUT she does not get N's. I was in 2 different support groups for 12 years. They did not get it about N's.
. My older son worked with an N for 8 months. After that, He got it. He understands about my M now.Talking to him is like talking to you,on the board ,b/c he gets it.
I think that the way that I handle life,now, will be not to expect people to "get" my life. You understand and that is enough.I think that we, who have been unfortunate enough to have had to deal with N's, are in a small group. We are in our own separate universe ,in this particular area of life. It is futile to explain it to other people. They give pat answers that might work in "normal" situations or" semi normal" situations-- but not with N's. Then ,I feel more alone than ever. This is my plan for the moment anyway. The support group is good for many other issues,however . Love Ami
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Janet,
Actually I was looking up things about dyslexia and came across left brain right brain with learning. I thought about guest 101 thread intellectual vs. emotional responses. By the way I took the online test and mine is 54% right side dominant. As I was reading I thought hmmm and googled emotional childhood trauma left brain right brain to see what would come up.
The part that I posted I am sorry there was so many sites I was looking at that I cannot remember which I took that quote from. I know that it was focused on spiritual healing also. Some of the things looked at I was like (Whattt) so I took what I needed (info) and left the rest alone.
But there are some very interesting things.
The right brain reads faces, inflection, nuances, pitch, melody, empathises and intuits what persons feel about what they say, why and in what context. In time it provides gestalt, morals, motives, inferences and meanings. These develop silently throughout life. The right brain remains dominant in regard to most, if not all, aspects of social-emotional functioning. When it is disturbed a myriad of affective psychosomatic and behavioral disturbances may result. For instance, when an ambivalent mother says "I love you." a child's left brain hears the words while the right brain discerns hate. The two parts cannot be assimilated. Later on hearing "I love you." the adult may cringe without knowing why.
That is another I read.
Some very interesting read about left brain, right brain. Check it out.
Deb
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I understand the frustation, Ami.
I think it would be great to have a little brochure, a quick digest of the main characteristics of NPD,
and carry it with me. That way, whenever I meet someone new and they begin to be curious about my
mother...then I could say, oh I have this leaflet here, that tells all about it. And include URLs.
Wouldn't that be handy? Hmmm.
Heck, people do that about unusual diseases all the time, since there are so many physical diseases
that people don't understand.
People CAN understand, once they're educated. Yep, I could tell a new friend, I'm enjoying getting
to know you so much. One thing that may sound funny but would mean a lot to me, would you
please read this, and go to that web site and read a few pages. It'll give you a great understanding
of a big issue in my life.
What could be wrong with that?
Hops
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Hops,
This is a link to the best description of an N mother that I've found (it's not so applicable if you have other N relationships in your life - it's just describing mothers), but it's SO accurate!
I've directed friends to this one, and they actually UNDERSTAND afterwards. For the first time in YEARS.
http://www.geocities.com/zpg1957/narcissists.htm
It would make a brilliant leaflet to hand out at supermarkets, church, airports... just to keep people informed, you understand :twisted:
Janet
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thanks Janet...it really is amazing.
My mother doesn't do ALL of those things but some describe her behaviors so accurately it's uncanny.
Hmmm...I'll have to give an edited version some thought.
Hops
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Dear Ami,
I would like to recommend a book that has comforted me tremendously when I was crying for help. It is, Life of the Beloved by Henri J. M. Nouwen.
I've entered the last week of my alloted time to be apart from my mother. I'm computerless except for the public library. That's why I haven't posted lately. I send my best to you and everyone.
tt
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Hi Janet,
Thanks for the link.
My NMother is a lot like the description.
Except for the nicer parts. :lol:
Love,
Bigalspal
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Dear Shunned,
I think that a big part of my getting more involved in life is to not "cast my pearls before swine". I am not saying that other people who do not understand N's are "swine". I am saying that I need to know where to give my deepest self and where to guard my deepest self.
I need to own myself and adjust myself to the outside environment. Love Ami
I
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Dear Ami,
You mentioned your father has been in AL-ANON and were not sure of his apology, One of the steps of the 12 steps is to make amends to those you have hurt, so I'm wondering if that is indeed what he was trying to do. I agree with BIGALSPAL, he has to live with your M ,( not that that is an excuse) he is maybe doing the best for both worlds. Although i don't know your whole story, but my Dad tries to make things right on both ends, he has to live with her and has as much said so. I hope your pain lessens each day for you. I know for me i was terrified of the pain of the truth, but little by little I faced the truth and felt the feelings and trusted myself a little more each time.
Love Tweety
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Pal, CB and others who liked the link,
My own NMum fits every point on that list...except, I thought, the last one ( about going all pathetic). However, when I said that to my husband, he said 'Well, that's exactly what she did when *I* confronted her.'
I remember now, that just before I went NC with her, he went round to her house, on his own, to tell her that if she treated me badly once more, I'd go NC. It was a last resort. When he'd come back, I said 'What happened?' and he was all coy, and just said it was private, which really annoyed me at the time. He was supposed to be helping me, but he wouldn't gossip!! How annoying!! Now I know he wouldn't tell me because I would've tried to 'make it right'. Again.
He only told me the other day, that what she'd done was fall apart, have floods of tears, prostrate herself on the floor in front of him and say 'you don't understand how terrible my life has been!!' He didn't fall for it. He just walked out.
So, my NMum fits EVERY criteria on the list.
Unfortunately.
Pal, I loved this part of your post: "My NMother is a lot like the description.
Except for the nicer parts. "
Janet
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Well, one could always make a nice little poster about Ns in general, and another about Nmothers...
post them in ladies' room everywhere we go.
We'd be like the Code Pink women on C-span!
:lol:
Hops