Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: WRITE on July 24, 2007, 03:36:26 PM
-
Although people are urging me not to make any big decisions or to jump from one thing to another I am really feeling the need to right now.
I am so fed up, I really want to move on and go into a ne phase of my life.
I opened my daily prayer book and the reading was about slowing down and waiting patiently
No idea what that means....patience? Never heard of it.
Maybe I should buy a house.
Should I buy a house?
That's the other thing, can't make a decision to save my life right now.
-
Write,
I've had that kind of itchy feeling that I just need to DO something. Hasnt usually ended well, but there you are.
Why does buying a house appeal to you? Does the permanency appeal to you?
Love
CB
-
Does the permanency appeal to you?
no, I was hoping it would cure my itchy feet. My urge is to run, to travel, to throw myself into something totally different....
What did you do which hasn't ended well?
Has impetuousness ever ended well?
-
Buying a house in a falling market is a less than optimal financial decision.
I would guess the market has a good year or more before prices settle out.
If you have a dog, maybe you could buy him a house instead. Even if you don't its probably better to buy a doghouse than buying yourself one right now.
mud
-
Dear Write,
I'm guessing that your question - "what is patience?" - was a rhetorical one...
nonetheless, I must say that your patience is what's being tested right now.
This testing is the only method which allows for growth, imo. It doesn't come naturally... at least not to some of us.
I believe that you are ever so patient in your dealings with others...
and I pray that you will apply that same patience to your itchy feet.
Like a skeeter bite which only itches more once scratched... hmm... maybe wear some socks on your hands for a day or two? :)
My practical response here is to agree with Mud... but I'd still consider those socks.
With love,
Hope
-
You think so Mud? I am in Houston, I thought the housing market was pretty good to buy here right now, especially for an older smaller property. Everyone here seems to want big and brand new.
Have to watch where to buy though, Houston floods badly.
( have y'all seen the flooding in England btw )
I must say that your patience is what's being tested right now.
This testing is the only method which allows for growth, imo. It doesn't come naturally... at least not to some of us.
I had so many years where waiting was like water torture, the slow drip of my life seeping away waiting for other people, at least now i have no one to wait for.
wear some socks on your hands for a day or two?
Thanks! I do wear socks in bed, on my feet though. Part of my self-care routine, now I don't get those sore bleeding crasked heels like other summers.
What is all this self-care for though?
It still feels like I am missing something, missing the point, missing the boat, missing out, gone missing....wow there are so many phrases with missing in.
Missing means lacking too doesn't it.
-
Forgot you're in Houston. It's bouyed by oil prices, plus did not really see as big a run up as the coasts. If oil stays up Houston may avoid any serious declines. Its rated one of the least likely areas to see any significant price declines.
If oil goes bust which does not appear likely any time soon, all bets are off just as they were in the eighties and late nineties.
mud
-
it's one of the best things about Houston, there's a huge property choice and diversity.
However who knows what will happen with oil, there seems to be a huge political commitment to keeping the industry dominant and strong even when it destabilises ecology or societies?
There's a lot of industry here Mud, it's a huge busy city, but its booms and busts seem independent of the rest of the country. There's a huge immigrant population bouys the economy too, especially the lower-paid jobs.
I can't imagine staying here all my life, but not sure where to go next either.
Somewhere pretty. With hills. Mountains. And four distinct seasons.
-
Dear Write,
When my daughter was very small, with chicken-pox, I had her sleep with little socks on her hands, so as not to scratch at the
itchies while sleeping.
That was the picture I had in mind about this itch...
because I think that there are parts which continue to sleep... after all the times with N's and the N'ish...
and maybe a part of this self-care is to recognize the "inner" child's desire to scratch an itch which could leave behind
a permanent scar.
As far as drips...
many, I think, would describe my life now as a slow drip... because I'm still waiting, Write.
But I'm not waiting for my childrens' father to convince me that he'll never sexually molest another child.
And I'm not waiting for NPD-ex to improve his behaviour just enough so that it's tolerable... only to cycle back into
monster-mode and threaten to take my life.
And I'm not waiting for my children to do something extraordinary so that my life can be filled by their accomplishments.
And I'm not waiting for my husband to stop leaving his socks on the bedroom floor.
And I'm really not waiting for my pony-dog to stop dragging me around the fields like a rag doll!
:)
Oh, there are so many, many things that I'm no longer waiting for.
But I am learning to wait on the Lord... and that's proving to be the biggest challenge to date...
Just to be still and know that He is God... and I am not.
Waiting and allowing Jesus to grow me up into His image... waiting - because I cannot will myself there by practicing religion.
After years of that, off and on, here and there, in and out... one day I came to the end of myself and called upon the Name of the Lord...
and there He was, right where He'd always been, waiting for me.
With all that is in me, I know that I would not want to have missed a single bit of the mess which has come along the way, if that's what it took to bring me to the point of knowing Jesus.
I don't know why I didn't "get it" before... but I didn't - not until I admitted to myself
that there was nothing I could do,
nothing I could quit doing, absolutely nothing - to make myself right.
Only then was I willing to let Him make me right, from the inside out.
All I can say is... Jesus is well worth the wait!
With love,
Hope
-
Thank you for that,Hope Love Ami
-
Jesus is well worth the wait!
I think a lot of what is wrong with me right now is I have been trying to follow Jesus' teachings and it's been too hard.
I wish I could just go to the local church and collect the money and sing the songs and ignore the sexism or anything unpleasant but I can't.
So I'm cast adrift again.
I wanted so much to settle somewhere, to rest awhile, if you know what I mean.
Thanks though CH, I know you'll keep me in your prayers.
Are you feeling better Ami?
-
Hey Write:
My experience is.... it takes about a year of looking to find a house, if you're seriously looking.
You can kick tires and educate yourself, decide how seriouse you are on the house hunting journey.
I spend too much time worrying about making decisions, making the wrong decisions...... I do better if I just get started and work on gaining information. Lot's of things to think about with a house.
-
Hey Write,
I remember being always obsessed with place.
It's had good effects, and bad ones.
Sometimes in my life my obsession with place, owning a home,
would replace obsession with finding a mate. It was like
declaring, I'm going to be my own mate!
I have taken enormous joy in tiny garden plots, painting
a kitchen.
It could be a wonderful place to put your energies.
But do think it through, try to assess whether it's filling a
sense of emptiness that's about not falling in love with yourself.
love
Hops
-
Write,
I could not bear the sense of waiting when I was with XN, taking control of my own life has shifted that boredom with waiting. In some ways I have achieved a lot over the past seven months but I have never been so still in all my life. I withdrew in many ways from the world and felt the boredom I have been avoiding all my life. Well, not the boredom, but what was beneath it, the loneliness, fear etc.
I think that having been with Ns we (hope its ok to use we) have an addiction to excitement. I really recognise this in myself, set down in my childhood of instability and alcoholic abuse. I have tried to deny the addiction to excitement, live quietly just to prove that I AM NOT ADDICTED TO EXCITEMENT oh, every which way. The movement I have made has happened by owning all the shadow parts of me. I think until I go to my grave I will have a desire for excitement and adventure but rather than meet this part of me in abusive relationships I have decided to set up healthy adventure and excitement and challenges for myself. These are challenges where I grow and are safe for me emotionally.........my trip to India, the half marathon, leaving my home to do a Masters. I was very attached to my home and the area I live in but not anymore, its strange but the more I become attached to myself in a healthy way the less I am attached to the external........ does that make sense.
So what I am saying I guess is you want SOMETHING TO HAPPEN........ I so know this feeling. So what can you make happen that is safe for you. I really like the idea of an adventure into the hills etc........... would love to do those things.
Making a list really focused me and also did not allow me to make little of what I achieved. I have been looking at that list for seven months and most of it has been accomplished and you know what WRITE I pat myself on the back(with great difficulty physically) each time I see it. So come on, how about posting a list of healthy adventures for Write.
xxxxxxx
Axa
-
You sound like you need a stick of dynamite! Something to break the stagnation and get things moving again. Time to get creative perhaps and find something. Your spirit will tell you what!
--mof4
-
Hey Mud,
Re: #6 post this thread.
Any projections on precious metals?
tt
-
Any projections on precious metals?
:lol:
Something to break the stagnation and get things moving again. Time to get creative perhaps and find something. Your spirit will tell you what!
my spirit's a bit broken! I have chosen two music organisations to be involved with in the fall, and today my friend came over and blitzed my son's room/spare room and my desk is now clear, completely tidy.
Going to finish cleaning the rest of apartment later when I get back. That will free up some energy for more creative stuff.
I have painted a picture, written a poem and composed some music this week though, I am pretty creative all the time, in fact it's become a chore at times if that makes sense...
the more I become attached to myself in a healthy way the less I am attached to the external........ does that make sense.
yes Axa. Perfect sense.
what are you trying to stifle by buying a house when you REALLY feel like going somewhere and doing something?
you think I need a trip?
I did look at flights yesterday.
Don't have much spare cash right now though.
I want to be normal and just be happy with what everyone else does, and not keep having all these intense emotions and thoughts I guess.
It's exhausting being bipolar.
I want a break from being me!
sense of emptiness that's about not falling in love with yourself.
I'm on guard constantly. Am I well/ sick....what does this or that mean....dare I risk a relationship or change in routine.....what if something stressful happens and I can't cope....
I almost want to precipitate a crisis to see if I can, which I know looks very stupid and I am not going to do, but this waiting and nothingness is driving me crazy.
I think that having been with Ns we (hope its ok to use we) have an addiction to excitement. I really recognise this in myself, set down in my childhood of instability and alcoholic abuse.
Axa is so right; I am bored and empty and lonely and unenthralled with life.
My son doesn't need me any more, which is great but leaves me without a role; if I take roles in the community it can only be temporary or I overwhelm others or they overwhelm me.
I haven't had sex in years and don't know how to go about that or whether to even bother with a relationship, I mean what would someone who can cope with my havign this mental illness be like or be truly wanting?
I'm suspicious and not trusting, and every time I let my guard down I get bitten.
I don't know what's happening but I am losing my positivity.
Maybe I've been doing Pollyanna.
Ex did make me laugh and lighten up last night though, he said about some woman I feel guilty about not supporting her music group this year 'you want to be a good Christian and help everyone, well there's 6 billion other people you can help instead of giving BD a dose of narcissistic supply!'
I like it when he acknowledges NPD and talks about it, I do hope he goes back into therapy again.
He supported me when I disciplined our son yesterday too, I think he is seeing it as less and less a power battle about us.
Though I am not expecting the NPD to go away either...
My life is like living under several sword of Damocles, except I don't get to be waited on hand and foot :)
Okay, I'm smiling, thanks so much for encouragement.
I guess I'll shake this horrible mood off soon....
-
Write, you are a light.
I know you'll dim and flicker now and then.
I'm so sorry you must go through it.
Moods aren't ordinary variations to you, or even if they are, you have to do the check-myself-out routine.
Who could blame you for wanting to paste Pollyanna one now and then? Not me.
Keep on checking in ... I won't tire of wherever you are. I'll want to hear it.
You are a light, and I know you won't be snuffed out either by bipolar issues or by the
regular tedious stuff.
(I'm identifying with your sense of limbo...and I find it hard too. Only thing iIm sure of is that
things DO change. Inevitably.)
much love,
Hops
-
Write,
I can so identify with that sense of nothing, the bordeom etc. I can come up with all sorts of ideas to change that but holding it and acknowledging it is a very effective way of moving it. I became so bored with the boredom that I just had to move on. Something I find useful is to think about what committments I make to myself. I mean practical ones. I can say I am committed to not going into an Norbit again but that means nothing unless I do the work. Each little bit of self care, no matter how tiny, is how I will build myself to stay away from Norbit. I really believe that discipine is an integral part of it. I gave up on exercise for a few weeks and felt myself getting low. I have to focus on the payoff after the exercise, how good I will feel about myself, my view of the world etc. I know how hard I find this so I drag my neighbours 10 year old son out with me for a run.
I often posted here about feeling like Pollyanna, less so these days. I am so sorry you struggle with BP I cannot imagine the intensity of that. But who I meet here is a smart, honest, woman struggling to live a better life. I have great faith in you Write. If you are like me you will want everyting to be ok......... it don't work like that honey, its all about the baby steps.
Sending extra big squashy hugs,
axa
-
The problem with havign bipolar is everything is so much more: pain feels unbearable. It is intensity Axa, and very hard to live with when things are difficult.
So many people with bipolar one commit suicide because they can't stand it, they get so upset or so angry or so despairing and can't see a way past it.
This is the longest I have been in a bad place for a while, I usually bounce back pretty quickly after a bad day or a bad week.
I keep doing things and trying and going from day to day. It feels like going through the motions and I want to scream, maybe I will ahve to go on meds. Hope not, i just dropped the weight from the last time.
Running is good. I'm exercising loads, can't stop actually.
When I'm like this I have to isolate myself soemwhat though, I don't take many people's calls, or seek company. It's too much for others and leads to embarassment or upsets. I'm quite good at managaing that side of things now.
Someone called me form a job yesterday and was quite unreasonable about my invoice numbers, I was looking as she said it and they were all there, in order. But I let her rant a bit, clearly someone had upset her, and I didn't react then she was fine. Her staff have started to make comments about her beign bipolar, she certainly mood swings that's for sure, she ended very nicely asking me how I'm doing these days!
So many people aren't really coping, they are so tightly wound up.
I'm not like that, I am functioning and everything about my life is very healthy: diet, work, relationships, everything really.
I just didn't anticipate all this pain and crying, I wake up in tears, I cry myself to sleep.
Tears come to my eyes over and over all day, the only time I feel normal is when I am taking care of other people yet like you with your Norbit ( if I understand that correctly. And I HATED that movie, so did my son; everyone was laughing and I was thinking what is wrong with these people... )
I know I have to break this habit of losing myself in impossible acts of self-sacrifice.
I'm starting to see that as not Christianity, or if it is it's not a good thing entirely. It's self-destructive and it'll topple me.
I've done this before, taken on more and more stuff I didn't really want to do, just to lose my feelings.
I've given away all my stuff, my money. Ex's money. He was joking that he has more money than ever now despite havign to pay alimony; he is really generous with me though, he knows I'm ill and he has said a couple of times he'll help with anything I need. That means a lot, I know so many people here really struggle with selfish ex's who don't even want to pay what they ought to.
I really want to try and sit with these feelings this time, not act any out, even if I have to get a little pharmeceutical help as well.
Moods aren't ordinary variations to you, or even if they are, you have to do the check-myself-out routine.
no they are not, and these are not ordinary mood swings either.
This is usually when I suddenly commit to a huge undertaking or decide I have to take care of someone else; indeed, I have sort-of dabbled in it a bit helping church guy at work, and several other people.
I just know I have to stop, it'll go out of control.
I'm trying to pick things to do which are just for my benefit, just for my enjoyment.
I really don't have to strive and suffer in order to prove anything do I?
And yet I feel happier some way if I am, like my flawed-ness is somehow a reason to be more willing to serve, more willing to overlook problems.
I wonder if I have some kind of Saviour complex thing going on here, if there's any such thing!
My therapist is out of town, I'm supposed to see her next week.
Thanks for the hugs and for letting me just go on and on. It must be tedious- I am boring myself.
But no more Pollyanna, I really have to find what normal emotions are, despite the bipolar.
*
I asked son just how are you, are you happy? He frowned and said 'I'm fine. '
I'm never fine- it's always one extreme or another, mood swings.
Maybe I am finding the limitations of trying to manage my life without a mood stabiliser.
[things DO change. Inevitably]
they do, but I want so much to kick-start them, stop pushing the big rock uphill and let it loose, to hell with the damage....
Bit of a pattern of the dramatic life..... :?
-
wow I just read that and noticed two things, really bad spelling and wow what a negative mood, but also- this is the first time I've had this overall overview with insight when I've been this bad.
It's bad and it's horrible but I totally know and acknowledge it's bipolar.
I used to drink heavily when it was like this, I have had the urge to but nor acted on it or even been tempted like in the store or around booze.
I used to talk myself into it at this point because the pain was so bad.
-
Dear Write,
I understand that and I'm so glad you've not talked yourself into drinking this time.
That is great progress... to sit with the pain.
To me, it's like an old, old dream I used to have often... of being able to breathe underwater, with no devices or air tanks.
I'm still learning so much from you and I thank you for pressing through....
With love,
Hope
-
Write, hon, it sounds so hard. I'm sorry. At the same time,
your insights sound so TRUE. Hope you'll print this one out
and treasure it to look back on later. It's wise wise wise.
I know when I finally got fed up with acute panic attacks,
I went to the doctor and said medication please, I'm tired
of trying to be a hero.
It does sound as though that's a good idea. Maybe your brain
needs the help right now. Is there a new med or different dosage
that might be more tolerable?
Don't let it go too far, hon. Remember, you've been through a
very stressful period so it's only natural that your illness might be
worse than usual when it's triggered. Why not get some help?
You hang in and post War and Peace if you want to. That's what
this place is for, and if you're weathering a crisis, let it blow here!
((((((((((((((Write))))))))))))
love
Hops
-
Dear Write ,
I soooooooooo understand the way you are feeling Write.
If it gets to be too hard there are medications that do not effect your ability to feel deeply.
I can pm you a couple of medications that have helped me but yet do not lessen creativity.
So sorry you are feeling stress out.And the ups and downs can be too fast or just not coming back up is so difficult.
Your way of describing bipolar is amazing.
I wish I could make it easier for you !!!!!!!!I care and send prayers of love.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Write)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Write Things will get better meds or not do not forget that it will get better.
So much love to you and more
m
-
Thanks CH Hops Moon.
What a day, I don't know where it went...but it's almost done. Thank G_d.
No, I won't drink again. I joke I'll take a drink when I am 80.
The problem with the meds is it's all trial and error and things can get worse before better.
A lot of doctors think meds are the only way with bipolar, and minimise the side-effects and dangers to fit their world-view.
I do think a lot of this has been triggered by leaving the local church, by wanting to confront the sexist pastor. Such things worry me so much, much more than other people. Who else worries about this stuff??? Who else cares??? It's laughable really.
I'm glad I was cautious and didn't get involved with church guy, I would hate someone to see me like this, and it leaves me vulnerable to abusers or to beign rejected outright.
Don't know how I would manage that in a relationship actually.
Ex has known me so many years he never worried too much about my er eccentricities this way.
Have this fantasy that in future relationship I just disappear fro a few days/weeks/months so no one has to see it. Probably not practical.
I looked at a photo of church guy's ex wife on the internet, she's an opera singer.
Am I becoming obsessed with him now?
Yet he was mean to me, so curious more than obsessed. I wonder if he was mean to her I mean.
I wish I could take a holiday from being me, maybe I should do the xanax breaks my Prof-doc suggested.
Everyone seems to think it's too much to cope unmedicated totally.
I did comfort-eat a little at lunch, and sleep in my son's bed all huddled up, he came up and held me for a while.
He's playing with a friend now.
I used to worry that he doesn't have a perfect time of it with my illness, but actually now i am secretly glad, it does bring out some compassion in him. Sometimes he sounds so like his dad's worst moments...
I'm supposed to sing tonight but I'll have to stay home.
Or should I go?
I feel so indecisive, so pressured for nothing. No one will die if I don't go, after all.
And my face is all blotchy, several of my friends will be there, they will worry about me if I go.
I don't want anyone to see me like this.
I wish I was young and carefree and unspoiled again.
I used to walk in the rain and wind and feel so free and optimistic.
It says in the DBSA guidelines that the main thing with bipolar is hope- trusting in the future and the good.
But I wonder why G_d has abandonned me?
That's how it feels.
I wish I'd never tried to find a church.
But then I have made so many friends, but also I have met other stranger people there who have been difficult.
I am difficult? I don't know, I try not to be. But I saw this guy on the news last night, a new republican candidate here. He looked so wrong for want of a better word for politics, a caricature of a Texas politician. So retrograde, so scarily unintelligent. No light in his eyes. I want to take on the system, the world, I want to say stop, listen, don't do this. He said he supports the war in Iraq, the next story was a young man blown to bits in combat. Why do people encourage this stuff?
Should I have looked at the photo of church guy's ex wife? I am worried that I am losing all perspective.
Is curiosity normal? Is it normal to be scared by the 9 o clock news?
My sister doesn't even watch the news, she'd say 'who cares'.
I used to watch my family when I was growing up, and they were so into their own little world, it was all that mattered to them, smoking, drinking, doing household projects over and over and over. They all still iron their clothes and redecorate yearly and follow clothes fashions.
I am so out of step with it all, I don't fit anywhere any more.
Strangely this afternoon I got an email of photos from a friend whose bipolar was really bad when I first came to Houston.
She had to give up work and go into hospital.
She looks really well again, when I tried to reply the same address bounced back.
I keep seeing these things as signs, that's part of the illness too, I am thinking 'what does it mean'.
Ex had a function in all of this you know, he would say firmly 'nothing'.
-
Dear Write,
I just picked out a few things here, because the responses are just begging to be typed...
"I do think a lot of this has been triggered by leaving the local church, by wanting to confront the sexist pastor. Such things worry me so much, much more than other people. Who else worries about this stuff??? Who else cares??? It's laughable really."
I care. I think like this... worrying about this sorta stuff... and imo, it's not laughable, really, it's idealistic and strongly opinionated and... it's you - at times!
Sometimes it's me, too, although a great deal of that has been tempered by time and a fairly newly-found interest in choosing my battles wisely (which accompanied a not-so-newly-discovered awareness that I have a limited amount of time and energies).
"I wish I could take a holiday from being me..."
Smiling here... me, too! Then I stumble into the arms of Jesus and He reminds me that I'm not alone in this.
"I am difficult?"
No. You are different. Different is good. That uniqu-ity is the image of God in you - made in His image, imo, fearfully and wonderfully so.
"Is curiosity normal?"
I sure hope so, because I woulda looked at her picture! Yes, yes, I am nosy.
"Is it normal to be scared by the 9 o clock news?"
imo, it'd be abnormal not to be frightened by the news... or numb.
"I used to watch my family when I was growing up, and they were so into their own little world, it was all that mattered to them, smoking, drinking, doing household projects over and over and over. They all still iron their clothes and redecorate yearly and follow clothes fashions.
I am so out of step with it all, I don't fit anywhere any more."
Me too, either. So what?
"I keep seeing these things as signs, that's part of the illness too, I am thinking 'what does it mean'.
Ex had a function in all of this you know, he would say firmly 'nothing'."
That's what my husband says to me, too, and so I will pass it on to you here...
it means... Nothing. You are complete and so it's okay for it to mean absolutely nothing!
Love you dear Write,
Hope
[/quote]
-
I don't know if you could have told that I wasn't bipolar. Because I would become terribly, terribly upset and non-functional.
oh that's what bipolars are is it?! :lol:
I'm not like this all the time honestly!
It's all so intense this week.
I don't think God is behind it anyway.
Agreed, though yesterday I wondered if I should stop believing, stop trying to make sense out of religion, stop following Jesus' teachings like a lunatic ( I don't see Jesus as G_d )
I don't know if it all makes me worse, soemone told me once that there's a fine line between religious belief and psychosis.
I don't do anything bad in G_d's name though, or think people should follow me or criticise anyone else.
I think I just wanted to be accepted.
My friend told me yesterday that the eucharist means nothign to her, she woudl just take it so it didn't look odd if she was the only one not doigna ritual.
I couldn't do that CB, never. I'd get hysterical!
Just much love.
you are such a good Christian. Love is the only thing will do really.
Love to you too, and don't let the court stuff upset you too much.
choosing my battles wisely (
this is about the tenth time this phrase came up this week.
I certainly don't do that lately.
I woulda looked at her picture! Yes, yes, I am nosy.
she's so pretty, he had said she was. Poor guy, she really broke his heart up. No wonder he's mean, but I'm not mean am I? Ex broke my heart and my spirit. People don't have to be mean just cause they're hurt. That's a choice. Or a habit.
I must be nosy too!
You are complete and so it's okay for it to mean absolutely nothing!
Love you dear Write,
Hope
Thank you, and love right back to you.
I don't know how I would have gotten through today without y'all.
Pretty calm now, going to go buy pillows with ex for visitors tomorrow.
Not going to sing; another time.
Love to everyone.
-
hope that didnt offend
no, I thought it was funny!
Here's to a brighter week next week--for both of us!
absolutely!
Think I'll walk dog and swim, then have a cup of tea then sleep.
I wonder if sometimes I am too intense with everything, never off-duty, since I've been workign for myself. Even when I am not working/ writing/ reading/ preparing/ book-keeping etc I feel like I ought to be.
Are there special skills d'you think for managing working from home/ self-employment.
I have lost the plot this week.
-
I dunno Write.
That feeling of wanting to take on the world and champion some challenge, some cause that is deserving and needs championed.... I have that too.
Maybe it's from unresolved abuse or issues we have? Sometimes I think it is.
Maybe it's something we do to feel alive and not so stagnant? Just being still leaves room to examine where we are and that's hard to do all the time. Maybe we need to get better at it?
Not sure.
Maybe it's just part of us and we're people who are deeply moved when we see an injustice?
I like to think that it's the third but I don't kid myself.
I have issues.
I avoid things I want to avoid sometimes by taking on things that aren't mine.
Just because they're worthy causes doesn't excuse me from handling all the mundane everday stuff in my life.
Is it an escape?
Probably, sometimes.
As for being curiouse about the opera singer.
I vote that's perfectly normal.
The fact that he/church boy was mean to you, so early in the relationship esp, pretty much means he was mean to her too, in my book. I guess I'd bet something quite large on it, anyway.
For me, big attraction means BIG excitement....BIG highs and corresponding lows. Never fails.
I thought I'd figured things out and chose a man to marry that repelled me this last time.
Eventually he didn't repel me then it was the silly grin all over again.
Darnit.
Turned out.... my radar was working well and I should have trusted it.
I'd grown and learned a lot.
I made the selection based on old habits and information.
I KNEW better. I just didn't trust myself and I'll pay for the rest of my life.
It happens.
Now.... I know what to do with the men that put a grin on my face from ear to ear (if that still happens)..... and with the ones that repell me.
Whatever will I do if I meet a man who simply stands before me, as an adult, and ask to know me for the sake of knowing me. Not for information he can use to manipulate me and change my answers into the ones he wants me to give?
I hope I know what I'll do with him.
I hope you can feel OK with taking time for yourself and withdrawing when you need to in any future relationship.
You can ask that for yourself.
It's not like you have to conform to some magic list of relationship rules..... always be present...... be on call to meet the needs of another.
You get to have needs...... ensure they're met too, right?
Sorry this so rambling and long, Write.
I like the idea of a relationship with space and honestly, acceptance of the whole person, warts and all.
-
Maybe it's just part of us and we're people who are deeply moved when we see an injustice?
I like to think that it's the third but I don't kid myself.
I have issues.
I think I have always felt especially when younger and I didn't understand some of the wacky things ( and sometimes unkind things ) I did when I was manic, I adopted this way of being perfect the rest of the time, not perfect but trying to be. I thought it mitigated if i got out of control and did something bad!
And then I do have a dislike of injustice and cruelty, and a big mouth....I'm pretty fearless in public where most people don't like to speak up, that's the performer in me.
I hope you can feel OK with taking time for yourself and withdrawing when you need to in any future relationship.
church guy called today, he told me things trigger him still; I don't think he's over his marriage break-up yet. Not surprising, she is the most beautiful woman with a beautiful opera voice.
I told him I can't get too involved with people, I'm too intense and need to withdraw periodically.
It's interesting Lighter, being attracted to someone triggers so much for me now, because you should see how my ex looks at me, the same light in his eyes, and look how that's been. We hadn't been married a week the last time when he moved out of our bed and said he didn't really want a sex life; if I hadn't been pregnant I would have had the marriage annulled!
I'm always awaiting ( and maybe provoking ) a rejection.
But what struck me so much yesterday is, I have my own life. I'm not married, I'm not even dating and I am not responsible for anyone but me and son and to some extent ex.
And that's where my main energy should go right now, especially into my health whilst I get through all this stressful change.
It's not like you have to conform to some magic list of relationship rules..... always be present...... be on call to meet the needs of another.
exactly.
I got a bit confused somewhere.
I was really happy to talk to church guy today, I won't see him for a while now until we do a concert together later in the year, but things are cool between us.
We're both just a bit broken still, and working on ourselves, and it's not the time for us to begin a relationship.
It's fine.
I like the idea of a relationship with space and honestly, acceptance of the whole person, warts and all.
me too.
But like in my case that's bipolar not unmanaged bipolar!
-
I hope you can feel OK with taking time for yourself and withdrawing when you need to in any future relationship.
church guy called today, he told me things trigger him still; I don't think he's over his marriage break-up yet. Not surprising, she is the most beautiful woman with a beautiful opera voice.
I told him I can't get too involved with people, I'm too intense and need to withdraw periodically.
It's interesting Lighter, being attracted to someone triggers so much for me now, because you should see how my ex looks at me, the same light in his eyes, and look how that's been. We hadn't been married a week the last time when he moved out of our bed and said he didn't really want a sex life; if I hadn't been pregnant I would have had the marriage annulled!
Oh dear, Write! That reminds me so much of my first little N. He pretty much did the same thing after we got engaged, and I wasn't pregnant. I should have RUN FOR HILLS!
When I was pregnant the first week of marriage with 2nd N, he withdrew about 4 months into marriage and said that married people shouldn't have sex more than 6 times a year!
I think they do that partly bc they're screwed up and it's a direct line into someone's ego/esteem..... very manipulative cruel stuff. He was also repelled by pregnant women.
My first N actually told me I was 'fat' at the end of our marriage. I probably weighted 115lbs and am 5'5". I'd gained 10 pounds and needed to gain some more, truth be told.
During our courtship... 2nd N said that he 'wasn't attracted to me at all and he thought it was God punishing him bc he'd been so bad... now that he found a good girl God wouldn't let him be attracted to her.'
I think I didn't walk away bc I had so much self esteem it bounced right off, and I knew better than to believe him. I thought he was just trying to manipulate me into marrying him sooner, which says something about my ability to make sense of cruelty. I need practice identifying it and calling it. He was really trying to break down my esteem and make me feel that I had to earn his attraction. BLECH!
I wonder how many women that line worked on BLECH! BLECH! BLECH!
Pffft! There was a strange light coming out of both their eyes when they looked/look at me. Now, I don't think it's really me they see. I think it's something else, yikes! Not sure what but.... BIG attraction makes me want to run the other way now! Well.... maybe rough them up a bit, no strings attached, then run away, lol. The problem is I always fire a warning shot and tell them exactly what my intentions are.... (give them big boy information so they can make big boy decisions based on the fact nothing seriouse will happen) which makes me an irresistable target that must be won at all costs. They get enough information to change my NO's int YES's and then I'm wondering how it all happened to me.
But what struck me so much yesterday is, I have my own life. I'm not married, I'm not even dating and I am not responsible for anyone but me and son and to some extent ex.
And that's where my main energy should go right now, especially into my health whilst I get through all this stressful change.[q/uote]
The only problem with that is..... when your all busy and content doing your own thing.... focused and accomplishing your happiness.... men are very very attracted to you and it's hard to stay focused on yourself when someone you find very attractive enters the picture.
It's hard to resist that light shining out at you through their eyes, I know. It makes us feel so alive and..... I know the feeling.
I guess the key is to retain your autonomy, to some extent, and enforce those boundaries at all costs..... even though it would feel pretty good to let them go a bit.
SLIPPERY SLOPE!
And if they're pushing us to let down our gaurd, they start with small small things and nudge our boundaries.
That accomplished, they move to larger nudges then they're out and out shoving. I guess we really must like'em to allow the nudges and then the pushes cause why else would we let them continue?
I know I felt invested.... too invested to turn back. I thought I was committed, when I was engaged. I should have thrown his ass out, called him a little nut job (which is very very cruel and not like me at all) sucked it up when I felt guilt and gone out for a lovely dinner alone, smiled at every man I saw and played 'THESE BOOTS ARE MADE FOR WALKIN' in my head the entire time, lol..
OH what wisdoms Lighter has for you, Write, lol! hee I think I'm serious about all this though :shock:
It's not like you have to conform to some magic list of relationship rules..... always be present...... be on call to meet the needs of another.
exactly.
I got a bit confused somewhere.
I was really happy to talk to church guy today, I won't see him for a while now until we do a concert together later in the year, but things are cool between us.
We're both just a bit broken still, and working on ourselves, and it's not the time for us to begin a relationship.
It's fine.
I like the idea of a relationship with space and honestly, acceptance of the whole person, warts and all.
me too.
But like in my case that's bipolar not unmanaged bipolar!
on a messageI don't know about church guy. I can say I've only had 1 or 2 normal relationships with caring giving men who cared about me as much as themselves.
They wouldn't have hurt me, no matter what I did to them. ::shakinghead:: They wouldn't have. This guy invited you to a concert then wouldn't sit with you. The getting everyone else a drink but you thing...... he just seems to have issues that say he's not going to be kind and nice no matter.
That's a biggy for me, from now on.
I'm kind no matter what. I expect it in return and you deserve it too.
I don't think church guy can do that.
There's better people out there for you and you'll meet them when you're happily focused on yourself.
You just have to cull them out from the ones who aren't always nice.
They always tell on themselves and do things that give themselves away. Looking back, I had all the information I needed each time I went head over heals with an N. I may be wrong about church guy. Hard to say on a board. I'd be interested to know what his past relationships were like and what his opera singer ex had to say about him, ya know? What they're doing when we meet them is what they'll be doing when we're with them, IME. (((Write)))
-
I wonder how many women that line worked on BLECH! BLECH! BLECH!
Well, Lighter, at least one more that I know of! :shock:
What's the deal? Is there an N school somewhere? I got the same line. And I married him anyway. Sheesh.
CB
Oh ::gag:: E tu, CB, lol?
-
Oh, I think I know what that line is about...
NPD is so farrrr above seduction... the object (and I do mean object) of his warped interest must always be the one to chase after him.
He must never admit to a need or desire which he is not absolutely certain to be able to attain
...and he must always stop short of genuine satisfaction (there not being a genuine bone in his body) which means that if he does somehow manage to inadvertently experience satisfaction *on edit* or give it, he must immediately retreat, withdraw, punish, exacerbate, irritate, annoy, frustrate, well, you get the picture... he's gotta rip it away before it has a chance to form a cozy little spot that might weaken his grip.
Kinda like the same reason he won't feed his dogs on a regular schedule...
wouldn't want them to come to expect anything from him and get too demanding.
harumph.
-
Hope :(
-
((((((Lighter)))))) sorry, retro-N-land there. He made himself abundantly clear... N doesn't "need" anyone, just needs to bring you to the point where you think you can't live without him. Good riddance. Really.
Love,
Hope
-
My N can't imagine that the divorce isn't just a negotiation ploy.
It would be for him.
He uses our children to manipulate me, makes no difference to him so long as he wins, KWIM?
In his mind, once I feel I've smacked him around as punishment enough..... I'll take him back and resume our regularly scheduled programming.
As if, lol?!?!
-
Yes, you're right about the way N thinks...
This one (just can't say "mine" anymore) did the filing for divorce when the judge before whom he stood and lied about his knife-wielding aNtics refused to set aside her docket to perform on-the-spot marriage counseling at his protective order hearing... too wild.
It was just as much about this female judge as about me... like: here, take that! Bizzarro.
Soon this other one will see that that channel is no longer on the air, Lighter. Hugs.
-
He was also repelled by pregnant women.
my ex loved me being pregnant and nursing, but I realise now it's because it was a good reason/excuse to avoid sexual intimacy altogether! He has never seen me as a sexual person really, but now I realise he never sees anyone as that except in a fantasy way.
now that he found a good girl God wouldn't let him be attracted to her.
what a back-hander. Sorry lighter ((((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))))))
Now I know NPD precludes a good sexual relationship- even what feels like great sex at times when the person is feeling super-confident isn't what I would call a mature sexual relationship these days.
I wouldn't have a marriage with anyone now who didn't want sex and didn't see it as both transient and a problem.
he just seems to have issues that say he's not going to be kind and nice no matter.
yes, he's pushing me away. I should hear him!
Someone said to me 'when a person tells you what you need to know about them then listen to them!'
I'm glad I didn't get into dating him, and I'm also glad we are okay with each other because we're bound to meet again.
Also I like him, he's incredibly talented and good company. Just not love-relationship material.
I guess I'll get better at working that out with more experience.
Is there an N school somewhere?
I think in many ways our whole way of life is a N-school CB. Look at our heroes, our icons, what we approve of. Try speaking out against sexism or racism or money-grabbing or religious extremism or war or poverty or anti-intellectualism in Texas, pick your audience carefully though unless you're very thick-skinned! It's all me-me-me and materialism...
In his mind, once I feel I've smacked him around as punishment enough..... I'll take him back and resume our regularly scheduled programming.
my ex actually told me this, he thought when I calmed down I'd be back. And of course I did go back when we divorced the first time, just to reinforce his warped view!
Bizzarro.
perfect word for NPD! Everything ends up bizarro as other people scrabble to buy into the charmer/talent/fame etc regardless of whether it's healthy or realistic.
In many ways things are stacked against NPD person because for every one person who dares to broach their unhealthiness there are dozens who will reinforce their false superiority.
Nothing changed with my ex until he saw the therapist and she confirmed this.
-
I can't believe I let him in.
I knew enough about him it's just that.... he had this 'I want to be a better man bc of you' redemption thing going, lol.
Man.... I am a sucker for redemption. :shaking head::
True true true... when someone shows you who they are..... believe them.
-
Regarding the frustration that comes with waiting when with an N...I WOULD RATHER ALMOST DIE THAN WAIT!
I married an n'istic man whose first name is PROCRASTINATION. His middle name is DELUSION. His last name is DENIAL!!!
First, he doesn't pay bills on time and then claims he didn't have the money to. He tells people he's going to be there, yet decides that they will understand when he doesn't show up (and, if not, SO) He makes suggestions about "well we could make this or do that," yet NEVER ACTS ON IT until I nag him into it.
H believes that if he doesn't confront an issue, it will just take care of itself. Our daughters used to PULVERIZE one another, and, when I'd tell him to go deal with them, he'd say "it's just sible rivalry" (his grammar SUCKS too, which annoys me to no end) He also has a favorite saying when I try to address issues that are bad..."It's over and done with, just forget about it. What good does bringing it up do."
Now, as far as denial, his statement, when I tell him that our daughter was nasty to me or said something flippant, is "I didn't hear anything. I didn't see it."
TALK ABOUT A REALLY TRYING LIFE!
-
TALK ABOUT A REALLY TRYING LIFE!
sorry Laura. I hope this new job is going to give you a new start.
How would you feel about leaving your marriage?
he had this 'I want to be a better man bc of you' redemption thing going, lol.
that's a lot of responsibility.
Then later it can be 'I told you what i was like....'
Not good enough!