New direction?

[lighter]

I hope you can feel OK with taking time for yourself and withdrawing when you need to in any future relationship.

church guy called today, he told me things trigger him still; I don't think he's over his marriage break-up yet. Not surprising, she is the most beautiful woman with a beautiful opera voice.

I told him I can't get too involved with people, I'm too intense and need to withdraw periodically.

It's interesting Lighter, being attracted to someone triggers so much for me now, because you should see how my ex looks at me, the same light in his eyes, and look how that's been. We hadn't been married a week the last time when he moved out of our bed and said he didn't really want a sex life; if I hadn't been pregnant I would have had the marriage annulled!


Oh dear, Write!  That reminds me so much of my first little N.  He pretty much did the same thing after we got engaged, and I wasn't pregnant. I should have RUN FOR HILLS!

When I was pregnant the first week of marriage with 2nd N, he withdrew about 4 months into marriage and said that married people shouldn't have sex more than 6 times a year! 

I think they do that partly bc they're screwed up and it's a direct line into someone's ego/esteem..... very manipulative cruel stuff.  He was also repelled by pregnant women.

 My first N actually told me I was 'fat' at the end of our marriage.  I probably weighted 115lbs and am 5'5". I'd gained 10 pounds and needed to gain some more, truth be told. 

 During our courtship... 2nd N said that he 'wasn't attracted to me at all and he thought it was God punishing him bc he'd been so bad... now that he found a good girl God wouldn't let him be attracted to her.' 

I think I didn't walk away bc I had so much self esteem it bounced right off, and I knew better than to believe him.  I thought he was just trying to manipulate me into marrying him sooner, which says something about my ability to make sense of cruelty.  I need practice identifying it and calling it.  He was really trying to break down my esteem and make me feel that I had to earn his attraction. BLECH! 

I wonder how many women that line worked on BLECH! BLECH! BLECH!

Pffft!  There was a strange light coming out of both their eyes when they looked/look at me.  Now, I don't think it's really me they see.  I think it's something else, yikes!  Not sure what but.... BIG attraction makes me want to run the other way now!  Well.... maybe rough them up a bit, no strings attached, then run away, lol.  The problem is I always fire a warning shot and tell them exactly what my intentions are.... (give them big boy information so they can make big boy decisions based on the fact nothing seriouse will happen) which makes me an irresistable target that must be won at all costs.  They get enough information to change my NO's int YES's and then I'm wondering how it all happened to me.

But what struck me so much yesterday is, I have my own life. I'm not married, I'm not even dating and I am not responsible for anyone but me and son and to some extent ex.

And that's where my main energy should go right now, especially into my health whilst I get through all this stressful change.[q/uote]

The only problem with that is..... when your all busy and content doing your own thing.... focused and accomplishing your happiness.... men are very very attracted to you and it's hard to stay focused on yourself when someone you find very attractive enters the picture. 

It's hard to resist that light shining out at you through their eyes, I know.  It makes us feel so alive and..... I know the feeling. 

I guess the key is to retain your autonomy, to some extent, and enforce those boundaries at all costs..... even though it would feel pretty good to let them go a bit.

 SLIPPERY SLOPE! 

And if they're pushing us to let down our gaurd, they start with small small things and nudge our boundaries. 

That accomplished, they move to larger nudges then they're out and out shoving.  I guess we really must like'em to allow the nudges and then the pushes cause why else would we let them continue? 

I know I felt invested.... too invested to turn back.  I thought I was committed, when I was engaged.  I should have thrown his ass out, called him a little nut job (which is very very cruel and not like me at all) sucked it up when I felt guilt and gone out for a lovely dinner alone, smiled at every man I saw and played 'THESE BOOTS ARE MADE FOR WALKIN' in my head the entire time, lol.. 

OH what wisdoms Lighter has for you, Write, lol!  hee  I think I'm serious about all this though

It's not like you have to conform to some magic list of relationship rules..... always be present...... be on call to meet the needs of another. 

exactly.
I got a bit confused somewhere.

I was really happy to talk to church guy today, I won't see him for a while now until we do a concert together later in the year, but things are cool between us.

We're both just a bit broken still, and working on ourselves, and it's not the time for us to begin a relationship.
It's fine.

I like the idea of a relationship with space and honestly, acceptance of the whole person, warts and all. 

me too.
But like in my case that's bipolar not unmanaged bipolar!

on a messageI don't know about church guy.  I can say I've only had 1 or 2 normal relationships with caring giving men who cared about me as much as themselves. 

They wouldn't have hurt me, no matter what I did to them.  ::shakinghead::  They wouldn't have.  This guy invited you to a concert then wouldn't sit with you.  The getting everyone else a drink but you thing...... he just seems to have issues that say he's not going to be kind and nice no matter. 

That's a biggy for me, from now on. 

I'm kind no matter what.  I expect it in return and you deserve it too. 

I don't think church guy can do that. 

There's better people out there for you and you'll meet them when you're happily focused on yourself. 

You just have to cull them out from the ones who aren't always nice. 

They always tell on themselves and do things that give themselves away.  Looking back, I had all the information I needed each time I went head over heals with an N.   I may be wrong about church guy.  Hard to say on a  board. I'd be interested to know what his past relationships were like and what his opera singer ex had to say about him, ya know?  What they're doing when we meet them is what they'll be doing when we're with them, IME.   (((Write)))

[lighter]

I wonder how many women that line worked on BLECH! BLECH! BLECH!

Well, Lighter, at least one more that I know of!   

What's the deal? Is there an N school somewhere?  I got the same line.  And I married him anyway.  Sheesh.

CB

Oh ::gag::  E tu, CB, lol?

[Certain Hope]

Oh, I think I know what that line is about...

NPD is so farrrr above seduction... the object (and I do mean object) of his warped interest must always be the one to chase after him.

He must never admit to a need or desire which he is not absolutely certain to be able to attain

...and he must always stop short of genuine satisfaction (there not being a genuine bone in his body) which means that if he does somehow manage to inadvertently experience satisfaction *on edit* or give it, he must immediately retreat, withdraw, punish, exacerbate, irritate, annoy, frustrate, well, you get the picture... he's gotta rip it away before it has a chance to form a cozy little spot that might weaken his grip.

Kinda like the same reason he won't feed his dogs on a regular schedule...
wouldn't want them to come to expect anything from him and get too demanding.

harumph.

[lighter]

Hope

[Certain Hope]

((((((Lighter))))))  sorry, retro-N-land there. He made himself abundantly clear... N doesn't "need" anyone, just needs to bring you to the point where you think you can't live without him. Good riddance. Really.

Love,
Hope

[lighter]

My N can't imagine that the divorce isn't just a negotiation ploy.

It would be for him. 

He uses our children to manipulate me, makes no difference to him so long as he wins, KWIM? 

In his mind, once I feel I've smacked him around as punishment enough..... I'll take him back and resume our regularly scheduled programming. 

As if, lol?!?!

[Certain Hope]

Yes, you're right about the way N thinks...

This one (just can't say "mine" anymore) did the filing for divorce when the judge before whom he stood and lied about his knife-wielding aNtics refused to set aside her docket to perform on-the-spot marriage counseling at his protective order hearing... too wild.
It was just as much about this female judge as about me...  like: here, take that!  Bizzarro.

Soon this other one will see that that channel is no longer on the air, Lighter. Hugs.

[WRITE]

He was also repelled by pregnant women.

my ex loved me being pregnant and nursing, but I realise now it's because it was a good reason/excuse to avoid sexual intimacy altogether! He has never seen me as a sexual person really, but now I realise he never sees anyone as that except in a fantasy way.

now that he found a good girl God wouldn't let him be attracted to her.

what a back-hander. Sorry lighter ((((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))))))

Now I know NPD precludes a good sexual relationship- even what feels like great sex at times when the person is feeling super-confident isn't what I would call a mature sexual relationship these days.

I wouldn't have a marriage with anyone now who didn't want sex and didn't see it as both transient and a problem.

he just seems to have issues that say he's not going to be kind and nice no matter. 

yes, he's pushing me away. I should hear him!

Someone said to me 'when a person tells you what you need to know about them then listen to them!'

I'm glad I didn't get into dating him, and I'm also glad we are okay with each other because we're bound to meet again.
Also I like him, he's incredibly talented and good company. Just not love-relationship material.

I guess I'll get better at working that out with more experience.

Is there an N school somewhere?

I think in many ways our whole way of life is a N-school CB. Look at our heroes, our icons, what we approve of. Try speaking out against sexism or racism or money-grabbing or religious extremism or war or poverty or anti-intellectualism in Texas, pick your audience carefully though unless you're very thick-skinned! It's all me-me-me and materialism...

In his mind, once I feel I've smacked him around as punishment enough..... I'll take him back and resume our regularly scheduled programming. 

my ex actually told me this, he thought when I calmed down I'd be back. And of course I did go back when we divorced the first time, just to reinforce his warped view!

Bizzarro.

perfect word for NPD! Everything ends up bizarro as other people scrabble to buy into the charmer/talent/fame etc regardless of whether it's healthy or realistic.

In many ways things are stacked against NPD person because for every one person who dares to broach their unhealthiness there are dozens who will reinforce their false superiority.

Nothing changed with my ex until he saw the therapist and she confirmed this.

[lighter]

I can't believe I let him in. 

I knew enough about him it's just that.... he had this 'I want to be a better man bc of you' redemption thing going, lol. 

Man.... I am a sucker for redemption.  :shaking head::

True true true... when someone shows you who they are..... believe them. 

[reallyME]

Regarding the frustration that comes with waiting when with an N...I WOULD RATHER ALMOST DIE THAN WAIT!

I married an n'istic man whose first name is PROCRASTINATION.  His middle name is DELUSION. His last name is DENIAL!!!

First, he doesn't pay bills on time and then claims he didn't have the money to.  He tells people he's going to be there, yet decides that they will understand when he doesn't show up (and, if not, SO)  He makes suggestions about "well we could make this or do that," yet NEVER ACTS ON IT until I nag him into it.

H believes that if he doesn't confront an issue, it will just take care of itself.  Our daughters used to PULVERIZE one another, and, when I'd tell him to go deal with them, he'd say "it's just sible rivalry" (his grammar SUCKS too, which annoys me to no end)  He also has a favorite saying when I try to address issues that are bad..."It's over and done with, just forget about it.  What good does bringing it up do."

Now, as far as denial, his statement, when I tell him that our daughter was nasty to me or said something flippant, is "I didn't hear anything.  I didn't see it."

TALK ABOUT A REALLY TRYING LIFE!

[WRITE]

TALK ABOUT A REALLY TRYING LIFE!

sorry Laura. I hope this new job is going to give you a new start.

How would you feel about leaving your marriage?

he had this 'I want to be a better man bc of you' redemption thing going, lol. 

that's a lot of responsibility.

Then later it can be 'I told you what i was like....'

Not good enough!