Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Catherine on July 30, 2007, 11:52:30 PM
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I have a Judeo-Christian background and one thing that struck me most in realizing my mother is a N, along with several other females on her side of the family, is that almost every word out of her mouth is a curse. Modern pop psychology would call her a negative person, new age would say she has "bad vibes/negative energy", but from a Christian perspective, all i can categorize it is a curse.
Parents are commanded to bestow blessings to their children (verbal, physical, emotional). When this is not done, hardship follows the child through to the next generation.
Most of what comes out of my mother's mouth is a curse...
For example:
"You cannot trust anyone...including a husband" (upon announcing our engagement)
"You think you are so happy now...just wait and see what is in store for you" (after my honeymoon)
"I hope you have children as rotten as you are"
"Now you will know what it means to be a mother" (said in a completely dramatic NEGATIVE tone when my son was born - like ha! now its YOUR turn)
"I hope your children abandon you as you have abandoned me"
"you think marriage is so easy...you don't know anything...YET" (after celebrating our 10th anniversary)
....which is why i have found myself avoiding her company as much as possible. I do not disclose personal information about my life and goals b/c invariably she has something bad to say about it and i feel as if she is jinxing me. Then she gets upset that she is the last person to know about anything. I think to myself, if i don't tell her, then she can't say anything mean and nothing bad will happen. Better no blessing than hearing her spew her mean jabs.
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Welcome, Catherine...
I'm so sorry about your toxic mother.
Someone so bitter isn't capable of blessing, is she?
Glad you're here.
(It's boggling how much hurt mothers can deal out...but this is a good place to start to get the distance you must, to be happy.)
Hopalong
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Cat: I believe this as well. My doc told me not to say bad tings about myself because it is like a negative prayer. I also believe that when my mom makes bad decisions and then will not acknowledge they are bad that she is showing pride and I do not believe God will bless her. Our business is Christian and I believe God wants up to be good stewards of it and so often my mom makes decisions based on arrogance and a sense of entitlement. Welcome Catherine!
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Catherine,
Your mother sounds just like mine!
I'm so sorry you've got one like mine, though.
Mine would say things like'you're wicked and sinful, you've never done anyhting for anybody, I hope you can live up to your VERY HIGH standards (after I'd told her I would never consider having affairs in my marriage, as she had done)', etc etc...
I have been NC with her for 13 years now, which at least means that the list doesn't get longer any more...
Janet
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I'm so sorry your mother hasn't been a safe supportive place for you all your life.
You sound like you understand what she's been doing. Do you need to understand the why?
I guess most everybody does.
She couldn't do any better, or she would have.
Is your husband supportive and kind to you?
Lots of questions...... sorry about that.
Welcome Catherine.
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Catherine:
I think your fat, ugly, and useless!
How does that make you feel? Maybe at first you may be somewhat upset but eventually you realize, who the hell am I to judge you. You throw out that opinion and you throw out my significance right along with it.
Why can you not do the same from your mother. You fell in to the trap that I fell in to. Somehow, call it the family system or human dynamics, I kept a special place for my fathers opinion in my head. I allowed him to be a judge over me. By doing this he not only caused me great pain but I also allowed him to have power over me. And what do you think an N does when he has power? He uses it to satisfy his warped sense of life. You become nothing but his possession to use and throw away at his will.
Now his opinion means nothing to me. Nothing at all. Total void. And how do you think I feel when I interact with him? MUCH better. He flounders to find that power he had before and when he sees that it is not forthcoming, he moves on to another possession. It is obvious that to him I was only important as a tool and not for myself. What can I do, such is life. But realizing it and accepting it has made my life so much easier.
If you have the strength you can even take it one step further. You can accept your mother for who she is and not judge her. You simply understand her dilemma, see that she too is a human trying to struggle in a painful and difficult world, and just accept that these are the only tools they have. You may even come to love her again. But never let her control you again. All the power lies within you.
Steve
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Hello Catherine,
Great to have you on board!
Steve,
I really appreciate what you just said. I am in the camp of understanding that my NMIL and other relatives are doing the best that they can. I don't have information to know if there was early abuse for her and can't possibly judge. I truly believe that she is doing the best she can. Seeing truth is not possible for her right now. Too scary. Not understanding the N thing has put me in the most vulnerable positions over the years as I try so hard to be a good DIL and give my best self. I am in her power. She knows it and I know it. I love the idea that you have found a place where you can love you F but not be affected by his controls. I must need to go back and read some of your other posts to try and understand how you managed it. I would really like to make myself untouched by opinions and manipulations. They come at me so fast and they leave me spinning and usuallly don't know what hit me. Now, I feel like I have forgiven my IL fam for something I am not sure they can control. The N culture is so aligned with their morality. They will never see.....but I can't yet allow myself to interact with them because they still have so much power to lay me down and cause me to lose my self-respect.
I also have trouble saying to my H, who has N tendancies and behaviors, that I no longer care about his opinion. I do. And I want to care about his feelings and judgements and struggles with life or with my weakness. I want to be the kind of person that CAN negotiate and work thru probs as we work toward mutually beneficial solutions.
It feels like a dilemma to me. How do I determine that these people don't matter to me, when loving them makes them very important to me.
Want so badly to learn this balance you seem to have found.
Love,
mof4
p.s. If you told me I was fat, ugly, and useless, I must be honest. It would hurt like crazy. And I don't reallly even know you. I may say that you didn't have the right to judge me, but I am not sure I have the capacity to throw out your significance. Cause I think everyone on the planet is significant. Make any sense?? But in the same breath, I wish that I could say that your judgement itself doesn't have significance in how I feel about myself.
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Sorry, just have one more thought.....
Maybe this shows the depth of my dysfunction....hope maybe some of your insight may help me see..... but sometimes I feel that if I choose to give myself all the "power" that it prevents me from trusting my world. I want to trust the world. I want to trust the best that is in people. Even the best that comes from the N's in my family. Hmmmm.....Maybe I trust the world to much. Or I trust the world with the wrong things. But when I take all the power, I feel like am out of balance in the other direction. But at the same time I need to take back my power and "own" and trust myself and my instincts and rely on myself to meet my own needs and not let others control me. Don't know if I am clear.....trying to explain......
Anybody else struggle with this confusion too??
mof4
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Dear Mo4,
This is just an intuitive feeling. I think that you might feel more afraid of your strength than of your weakness. .. I remember if I wanted to "disarm" my M, I had to act really weak. Then, she would stop the scary NPD behavior and act"normal". That must have been a pattern for me.When stronger dog comes along, the weaker one rolls over and shows it's underbelly.I saw that when I was walking my Standard Poodle. A puppy ran out of a house and saw my poodle. It immediately rolled over on it's tummy-- right in the middle of the driveway.
I feel uncomfortable 'being strong". This is a pattern which I need to change.
This may be an issue for you. Ami
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Dear CB,
That is incredibly profound. It is exactly what I needed at the moment..I am "waking up" to the real world. That was what my "birth" of dizziness was about. I was letting go of the world that made "sense" in a childlike way and seeing the real world The 'childlike" one followed rules like if you are kind,others will be kind.Also, if I am trying to please you, you will treat me well in return. It also had rules like being strong was wrong, somehow. It did not look 'nice". Being nice" and pliable was good.It had so many rules that "don't work. It is that simple. They may sound good and "nice",but they don't work.
I think that a really big step is focusing the trust in yourself, rather than in the outside world. I am just at the beginning of CB's discovery. Thanks so much for sharing it. It is a "shift" in perception that is really, really big . Love Ami
P.S. I wanted to add that(IMO), the shiny people and the 'dull" people and the" middle of the road "people all are made up of many different and even "opposite traits. I see myself as having 3 parts. There is my Spirit, where God lives. there is my body( the physical) and there is my mind and emotions. The Bible calls the last two the "flesh". The flesh does not want to do what is "right" . You have to override it with the Spirit. Anyway, people may not agree with this model ,but it brought me to an understanding of myself as multifaceted and helped me to realize that when I have "bad" thoughts and emotions, it DOES not mean that I am bad. This is so big for me
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Mo4:
First apologies to Catherine for hijacking this post, I hope you can get some value from it regardless.
Mo4:
What i hear from you is these people here and those people there. Where is the I. The I is the most important. Put yourself first. Do not fear putting yourself in front of everyone else. They are all creatures in your comedy of life. The world is yours to see as you will. Choose to see it from the only perspective that makes sense. The perspective is meant to serve you first and foremost. if you can take this ride in the company of others, enjoy it even more so.
But tear down those expectations. Tear down the absolutes. Take what is there and create what you want. Start from yourself and move out. When you are totally accepting of yourself you learn not to care about what others think. When you no longer care what others think, they are so much easier to accept, and even love.
From within will come all your power. Do not rely on crutches. Proclaim yourself here and now. Say I exist, this is MY life, I totally accept myself without restriction, I judge myself only. All others exist in another dimension.
Look out the window. What do you see? Is it beautiful or is it ugly. What do you want to see. Whatever that is, then create it. This life of yours slowly but surely is melting away like a stick of butter in the hot sun. Take that butter for all it is and enjoy it while it is still here. Because when the sun is through with you, you will no longer have anyone to appeal to. Appeal to the only one who can truly listen, and that of course, is YOU.
Steve
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::gulp::
Steve...... I hope you hang around a bit.
I'm working on the things you seem to be mastering, lol.
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I want to give my experience about "getting to " where Steve is. Many people want to be there. It seems to go without saying that he is at a great place. The question is "How to get there?"
IME, I can't just "get there"by trying to "follow" what he is saying. I am getting there,but it is a letting go of old ideas.I am shoveling out the garbage. Then I seem to "know" what Steve is saying .It just comes to me. I think that I "knew" it before I started accepting N ideas(or had them thrust on me.)
I think that where Steve is --is an unlearning of old ideas . Then. we will be able to use our intuition properly. When we can do this, we will be healthy and just 'know what he is telling us. This seems to be working for me, anyway.
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Dear Steve,
Your therapist must be amazing. :shock: :D
Seriously. Wow.
But the credit for the epiphany goes to you, because you were open to healing.
Hops
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Hi, Catherine
You've reminded me of another book in my stack of "I really need to read these..." :shock:
I'd just started it when some minor upheavals forced my attention elsewhere, but it's a good one and I thought you might be interested.
It's called The Blessing, subtitled "Giving the Gift of Unconditional Love and Acceptance", by Dr. John Trent and Gary Smalley.
(Says there's an online community and interactive course available at www.TheBlessing.com (http://www.TheBlessing.com)... I see excerpts listed there, too)
I'm sorry that your mother and other family members overflowed with such cursings. My first thought is - "not by might, or by power, but by My Spirit, says the Lord"... the Spirit breaks every curse. I hope you'll continue to post and share.
Love,
Hope
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Dear Steve,
Your therapist must be amazing. :shock: :D
Seriously. Wow.
But the credit for the epiphany goes to you, because you were open to healing.
Hops
Yup yup yup, Hops.
Bears repeating: )
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Hope,
Thank you so much for that link. I ordered the book and DVD. I am trying so hard to not hold resentment in my heart towards my mother. All i have ever wanted from her is her blessing (not necessarily approval....just her blessing...that's it). However, i know she knows this b/c i have told her this is what i need. Her reply is that she will not give it to me until I do what she wants.
It is so hard for me to move on when she is holding onto this like her life depended on it.....she dangles it in front of me like a carrot on a stick. The last time i spoke with her, calmly, she ended up raging at me - refused to speak or listen to a word i said. I wrote her a letter but her heart was very hard. SHe returned it to me with a lot more verbal abuse written on the front of it...it just made me more angry and bitter.
I feel like it is 1 step forward and 3 steps back with her. I go a period of NC with her so i can regroup my thoughts, soften etc. Then i see her, quietly, humbly, and she rips me to shreds with her ...MEANNESS...i have no other words. Its like speaking to the devil. She hates it when i am meek. Hates it when i am strong. Enjoys speaking in riddles...."you figure it out what you did to me....i'm not mad...i don't know what you are talking about" etc.
I think she is purposely withholding the blessing b/c it gives her power over me. I hope the book tells you what to do when a parent is so sick in the head they will not/can not give it to their children.
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Dear Catherine,
You're so very welcome. There are chapters about homes that withhold the blessing, as well as "When a child misses the blessing", "Learning to live apart from the blessing". I do believe this will help... for me, too... as I relate to my own children, one of whom in particular has not received my blessing for some time.
I'm so glad you brought this topic here. I don't read all of the threads, but this one I kept looking at... thought, well... I won't have anything to offer there... but now I get it. Of all the reading I've been trying to sit myself down to do, and sometimes it's not easy to maintain focus, I think this is the one I'm supposed to read next myself. So thank you! And thank God... He's pretty amazing.
Love,
Hope
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I was reading giving the Blessing to your own Parents:
"..........Hardest of all, Helen admitted the anger and hatred she had carried towards him for years and asked for his forgiveness. ...For 15 yrs Helen's father had denied the burning conviction of his wrongs against his daughter. He asked her to forgive him for being such a terrible father and lamented over all of the pain he had caused in her life..."
Is this type of reconcilliation even possible with a N parent?
The last time i apologized to my mother, she accepted my apology but never once apologized for anything she did. Not one thing.
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I've only ever apologized to NPD-ex. Whether I needed to or not, I did... because I thought that was right. Actually, I think what I apologized for was for not being perfect... :? He "accepted" and "apologized" in turn. Gee, that accomplished alot. Forever after, he used that as a weapon against me... so no, I don't see a reconciliation with a truly NPD person as possible, at least not in terms of that person suddenly becoming who we always wanted them to be.
But dealing with our own issues of unforgiveness is what frees us, I'm thinking... regardless of how the other responds?
I'm caught up short here, Catherine. It has never occurred to me to apologize to my parents and I really cannot imagine their reaction. I hadn't read that excerpt yet... but wow, there's some food for thought. If we know that apologies don't always lead to reconciliation... but we also know that we've carried hatred and bitterness in our hearts toward someone... maybe our freedom comes in shedding that? I'll be reading this book over the next few days. That's for sure!
Love,
Hope
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Dear Catherine,
Today I've been reading in The Blessing book that I have here...thanks again for inspiring me to finally read it!
Just thought I'd share a bit...
In Hebrew, the word translated "curse" means - "to consider something of little value or worth".
"Like mist or steam, it's something of so little weight that, like a worthless irritation, it's to be brushed aside".
This surprised me... and based on that definition, I see that's what NPD does - curses everyone with whom it comes in contact.
The first consequence of being cursed that's discussed here is that we learn to be hopeless... immobilized in facing the future.
Instead of actively trying to solve our problems, we can become passive, dependent, and depressed. Sounds too familiar.
By shouldering curses from the past, we get stuck in this sort of learned hopelessness.
So then the first step toward reversing the curse and learning to be hopeful comes from making a wholehearted commitment.
The author here speaks of a man whom he'd counseled, who made a true commitment of his life to Jesus Christ... to be the person - the husband and father - that God wanted him to be. This clear, definite commitment (which this man actually put it into writing) was the key to sorting out the inner confusion left behind by having received those curses.
Now I believe that a commitment to Christ is the best one that any person can make, but of course there are many who don't share that view. So I guess the thing is to take a close look at where our commitments lie and zone in on one that's firm and unshakeable...
But I really like the way he talks about learning hopefulness... and it makes sense to me that this all begins with making a commitment.
Of course, there's more to come after that, but this is where I am for now... defining that commitment further and clarifying what all is part of it. Anyhow, that's a bit of what I read today. Hope it helps.
Oh, the Scripture reference to this part is 2Corinthians 5:17
"If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation;
old things have passed away;
behold, all things have become new."
I hope you've had a good day!
Love,
Hope
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Dear Hope,
I would like your opinion . I am trying to form some model where I can 'live" comfortably in my skin.
My mother made me doubt my realty so badly. It is so, so so hard for me to trust myself.
I realized from a Bible teaching that the only part of us that has God in it is the spirit. The other parts are the "flesh". The flesh will never get"good" until we go to heaven. So, if we feel or think "bad" things, that is just the flesh and does not make us a bad person.. Our responsibility is to act in accordance with the spirit? What do you think? I am asking this b/c I was made to feel so guilty and worthless for what I thought or felt . What do you( or any one else) think of this? Love Ami
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Ami,
I can tell you my own experience with some of this and that may help you to form some opinions...
As long as I can remember, I have felt inept, clumsy, incompetent, and just generally like an oddball.
The lesson I received from my mother was that she is the only person in my life worthy of trust.
In my attempts to prove her wrong, I married some extremely un-trust-worthy men and only succeeded in confirming that she was absolutely right.
From that context, I can relate to what you say about doubting your reality... because I created a false reality
for myself, out of my determination to NOT accept what I saw as my mother's graceless, loveless existence.
Then I met NPD-ex-husband and thought surely he was a gift from God. Oh, he was so emotional. :P
He was a gift alright... he gave me an object lesson, in living color, of the meaning of the words -
the devil often appears as an angel of light!
Then I met Jesus.
HE said that I could be born again and made new.
HE said that I didn't need to lean on my own understanding, but only trust Him and follow in His steps.
HE said that He would give me a new spirit and a new life, that I would be a new creation in Him,
that all I had to do was give up on my own efforts to make myself right and receive His gift.
That's what I did.
I received Jesus and He gave me the Holy Spirit.. the Comforter, you know? Our Paraclete, Advocate, Teacher...
So here is the model on which my new life is based, first out of Colossians 3:
1 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above,
where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
2 Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
I hope you can see... that was the best news I'd ever heard, Ami... that I have died and my life is hidden with Christ in God.
And this, from Romans 8:
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
And then, you know, in John 8 we read about that truth which makes people free... well, I saw that's Jesus - He is The Truth.
The new spirit which is received by those who call on His name is His Spirit.
That's why we read further along in John 8 and see that "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed."
And in 1Corinthians 2:
"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world,
but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God..."
So, as you've said here... it's walking in that Spirit which allows us to overcome the flesh... the will and emotions... and to renew our minds to the truth of Christ. It's about identifying with Him and not with our earthly families or with our own flesh.
As new spiritual creations, we have a new spiritual family... we've been adopted :)
But I have lots of feelings float through, Ami... especially now that I'm consciously trying to be aware of them.
Maybe you've heard this old quote from Martin Luther... I'll paraphrase:
You can't stop the birds from flying over your head,
but you can sure keep them from building a nest in your hair!
So yes, I see that it's my responsibility to pay attention to which feelings I allow to hang around and get nurtured, developing into thoughts. When I start nursing the wrong feelings into thoughts and maybe even into actions... then pretty soon I have alot of nasty, bitter roots taking ahold. Thank God He is eager to receive our repentance and strengthen us by His grace!
So you're right - for a person who is born from above, made a new creation in Christ, feeling and thinking bad things does not make them a bad person.
Look at all the letters the apostle Paul wrote to people he called "saints". He writes plenty of correction of wrong things in those letters, but he doesn't address the letters to "the sinners at Corinth" or "the sinners at Ephesus".
The main thing is... God would never cause you to feel worthless, Ami.
That sort of condemnation is from the father of lies.
The value of something is often determined by the cost someone is willing to pay for it, right?
Take a look at the cost God paid to buy you back, to redeem you... then you will know your true value.
Once you see what really happened on the cross, no one will be able to convince you that you're worthless.
Love,
Hope
P.S. I don't trust myself, Ami... I trust God in me. I trust Him to guide me and protect me... including from myself.
You see, I recognized that I had been my own worst enemy.
For me, I had to come to the point where I knew I couldn't trust myself in order to look up and see the One I can trust, always.
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Thanks so much,Dear Friend Love Ami
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Hello everyone,
It's been a long while since I last posted. I'm around, but I usually keep my correspondence to a few friends by PM. I'm in a whirlwind nursing program that won't allow me much time to do anything other than breathe and sleep 5 hours a night, but I have a brief break here and when I have a minute I can't help but come and see how my friends here are doing. This thread jumped out at me. N'ism and curses, (particularly generational ones), are subjects I am extremely sensitive to as I come from a long line of N women who are/were also happened to be healers and religious leaders.
Several years ago, after a long run with what I considered to be "bad luck," I proclaimed in desperation, "What is wrong with me, am I cursed!" This statement opened a floodgate of emotions and realizations. The researcher in me took this question to the library and the internet to find out what I could about curses, evil, and what have you. It was then that I stumbled across Peck's "People of the Lie" and began to make this evil/narcissism connection. It rang true through my spirit. I made the connection that Nism in it's most malignant form was the devil at work, murdering spirit and good will. I saw in my Nmother and Ngrandmother a lifetime of these dark-hearted intentions and slights to their children and grandchildren that could easily be mistaken for love and concern. (Isn't it the devil's way to convince us that he/evil does not exist?) The epitome of politeness covering up the venomous, hateful motives. The psuedo-love shown to me as a child was a house of cards flailing apart with each divinely-guided revelation. My next research question: "Did this evil begin with my grandmother or does it go back further than that? What happened way back when to cause my family to be cursed this way?"
This then took me to an online family tree maker where I began to research the particulars of my matri-lineal heritage and I began to find that I have a rich North Carolina Cherokee pedigree and that my grandmother's grandmother was a pure Cherokee medicine healer. It was the custom of the time, I found, for children born under auspicious conditions, say in the caul-amniotic sac, or sunny-side up-face staring upward upon delivery from the birth canal, or in the case of my own mother, in a spring-time snowstorm, to be removed from his/her parent and placed in the woods to test his/her spiritual power. If this infant is able to survive away from the tribe and in the elements for several days, then this child is truly a "special gift" to the tribe and is to be exalted to a high position such as healer, tribe leader, etc. (I can't help but wonder how many children died during this testing b/c they just happened to have these rare, but explainable circumstances).
Now, I should also slow down to point out that according to psychology, Nism itself is the result of a breach in bonding between mother and infant. Lack of empathy on the part of the parent causes the child to develop in a VERY early stage of development certain defense/coping mechanisms adapted for N survival. It becomes ingrained moreso in the sub-conscious than in the conscious mind, that survival for the N is a matter of self-preservation above all else, necessitated, I believe by those initial days as an infant without a human face to connect with, without love to sense, and a warm bosom to be comforted by. This was the fate of my grandmother's grandmother, who indeed raised my grandmother, and also the fate of my own mother who was raised by her paternal grandmother after being rejected by her mother. The theme of parental rejection in baby-hood was prevalent in the family.
Another theme was the oppression and pain my ancestors had to endure during the "Trail of Tears" and the forced migration that left many Native Americans broken in spirit. The Nism of the government during that time was cast upon the historically peace-loving people leaving a legacy of bitterness and hatred toward the white man. But like in any scenario of abuse, retaliation tends to be misguided and instead of lashing out towards their oppressors, many of the tribespeople lashed out toward their own, creating a divisiveness among and within the once-friendly tribes. Neighbor against neighbor, brother against brother, parent against child. This is the way evil works. Resilience allowed my own ancestors to survive these times although they incured much psychological damage.
Another unfortunate family theme, one all to close to my own childhood experiences, is incest. I'm not sure where it began, but evil has many ways of affecting a family. Incest was and is rampant in my mother's family and part of the neglect and lack of empathy of N motherhood is that nothing is done about the little girl's and boys complaints of inappropriate touching. The desire to see evil perpetuate keeps the should-be protectors quiet about the reports of rape and dehumanizaiton. To be raped by a stranger is it's own horror but to be repeatedly raped by a "loved one" is a hell that never stops burning. I recently approached my grandmother about what she knew of the pedophilia and sexual deviance in the family. Her response to me was, "I hate you."
With this as my past, I have made a decision, one that has been two whole years in the making/planning, to cut myself off completely from my toxic past. My only connection will be the book I'm writing, my catharsis for a long journey. And as for curses, for myself and my daughter, the buck stops here. Curses can indeed be broken. Knowledge, positivity and a willingness to change the course from it's current path are paramount. This is not at all easy. My seven year old does not know my side of the family well. I will never allow her to stay alone with them but I try my best to fill her with love and esteem. A beautiful, beautiful girl is she. I rebuke the negative spirit that wishes to devour her goodness and taint my family's right to happiness. And may she never personally know of the curse to our family.
Best to everyone
Tiffany
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Tiffany,
That was such an interesting post. I hope you can take positive things from such a strong family heritage.
I have been researching my family tree, and have found that my NMum's female line has 'strange' women in it, (probably N, although I can't be sure of some of them) going back to the 1850's.
My grandmother was 'given as a servant' to her own grandmother at birth, as 'payment' for her own mother having the cheek to leave home and get married! So my grandmother grew up feeling unloved (in fact, being only seen as a servant, not part of the family). Her own siblings disowned her.
When my grandmother had three of her own children (my mother was the third), my mother was 'sent away' for two months around the time of the fourth child being born. So my mother came back to a family where she wasn't 'the baby' any more, and the whole family dynamic had changed. That might have started her N-ism, IMO.
Weird. :shock:
Janet
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My seven year old does not know my side of the family well. I will never allow her to stay alone with them but I try my best to fill her with love and esteem. A beautiful, beautiful girl is she. I rebuke the negative spirit that wishes to devour her goodness and taint my family's right to happiness. And may she never personally know of the curse to our family.
Best to everyone
Tiffany
Amen, Tiffany. Amen - let it be so.
I agree with all you've written and appreciate so much that you've taken the time to share this.
About this:
"I made the connection that Nism in it's most malignant form was the devil at work, murdering spirit and good will."
Yes. Innocence must be destroyed - that is the mission of malignant Narcissism, inspired by the father of all lies.
Love to you and blessings on your studies and to your family,
Hope
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Hello everyone,
IThe researcher in me took this question to the library and the internet to find out what I could about curses, evil, and what have you. It was then that I stumbled across Peck's "People of the Lie" and began to make this evil/narcissism connection. It rang true through my spirit. I made the connection that Nism in it's most malignant form was the devil at work, murdering spirit and good will.
Peck changed my whole perspective. I always knew evil existed but I have seen it face to face! I have seen it at work! I know what you mean.
I'm not sure where it began, but evil has many ways of affecting a family.
I firmly believe that many people are hosts to evil spirits which are affecting their every interaction with others.
I rebuke the negative spirit that wishes to devour her goodness and taint my family's right to happiness. And may she never personally know of the curse to our family.
This is a powerful, powerful statement. You are a wonderful mother and your daughter is blessed to have you.
It really warmed my spirit to read your post at this time in my life.
I recently told my therapist that when confronted with the evil that exists in my family, the knowledge of it with my eyes wide open I am horrified.
She told me it is wise and appropriate to be horrified when confronted with evil.
I was concerned that she might think I was some kind of fanatic, seeing evil spirits lurking in every corner but she assured me that she didn't get that sense at all.
she affirmed my belief. she said:
Evil exists and it can take over and destroy lies if we let it.
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correction:
My therapist said:
evil exists and it can take over and destroy LIVES if we let it.
God and the spirit of truth destroys lies.
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author=Certain Hope link=topic=5290.msg82886#msg82886 date=1186017407]
Ami,
I can tell you my own experience with some of this and that may help you to form some opinions...
As long as I can remember, I have felt inept, clumsy, incompetent, and just generally like an oddball.
The lesson I received from my mother was that she is the only person in my life worthy of trust.
In my attempts to prove her wrong, I married some extremely un-trust-worthy men and only succeeded in confirming that she was absolutely right.
From that context, I can relate to what you say about doubting your reality... because I created a false reality
for myself, out of my determination to NOT accept what I saw as my mother's graceless, loveless existence.
Then I met NPD-ex-husband and thought surely he was a gift from God. Oh, he was so emotional. :P
He was a gift alright... he gave me an object lesson, in living color, of the meaning of the words -
the devil often appears as an angel of light!
Then I met Jesus.
HE said that I could be born again and made new.
HE said that I didn't need to lean on my own understanding, but only trust Him and follow in His steps.
HE said that He would give me a new spirit and a new life, that I would be a new creation in Him,
that all I had to do was give up on my own efforts to make myself right and receive His gift.
That's what I did.
I received Jesus and He gave me the Holy Spirit.. the Comforter, you know? Our Paraclete, Advocate, Teacher...
So here is the model on which my new life is based, first out of Colossians 3:
1 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above,
where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
2 Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
I hope you can see... that was the best news I'd ever heard, Ami... that I have died and my life is hidden with Christ in God.
And this, from Romans 8:
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
And then, you know, in John 8 we read about that truth which makes people free... well, I saw that's Jesus - He is The Truth.
The new spirit which is received by those who call on His name is His Spirit.
That's why we read further along in John 8 and see that "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed."
And in 1Corinthians 2:
"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world,
but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God..."
So, as you've said here... it's walking in that Spirit which allows us to overcome the flesh... the will and emotions... and to renew our minds to the truth of Christ. It's about identifying with Him and not with our earthly families or with our own flesh.
As new spiritual creations, we have a new spiritual family... we've been adopted :)
But I have lots of feelings float through, Ami... especially now that I'm consciously trying to be aware of them.
Maybe you've heard this old quote from Martin Luther... I'll paraphrase:
You can't stop the birds from flying over your head,
but you can sure keep them from building a nest in your hair!
So yes, I see that it's my responsibility to pay attention to which feelings I allow to hang around and get nurtured, developing into thoughts. When I start nursing the wrong feelings into thoughts and maybe even into actions... then pretty soon I have alot of nasty, bitter roots taking ahold. Thank God He is eager to receive our repentance and strengthen us by His grace!
So you're right - for a person who is born from above, made a new creation in Christ, feeling and thinking bad things does not make them a bad person.
Look at all the letters the apostle Paul wrote to people he called "saints". He writes plenty of correction of wrong things in those letters, but he doesn't address the letters to "the sinners at Corinth" or "the sinners at Ephesus".
The main thing is... God would never cause you to feel worthless, Ami.
That sort of condemnation is from the father of lies.
The value of something is often determined by the cost someone is willing to pay for it, right?
Take a look at the cost God paid to buy you back, to redeem you... then you will know your true value.
Once you see what really happened on the cross, no one will be able to convince you that you're worthless.
Love,
Hope
P.S. I don't trust myself, Ami... I trust God in me. I trust Him to guide me and protect me... including from myself.
You see, I recognized that I had been my own worst enemy.
For me, I had to come to the point where I knew I couldn't trust myself in order to look up and see the One I can trust, always.
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... it's walking in that Spirit which allows us to overcome the flesh... the will and emotions... and to renew our minds to the truth of Christ. It's about identifying with Him and not with our earthly families or with our own flesh.
WOW! Amen! Carolyn and Ami
Walking each day in His Spirit and in His Truth.
Leah