But Jesus did not say to ride roughshod over people.
color][/b]
Ami
She acknowledged her sin
Whereas,
You have not yet acknowledged the abusive PM's that you have been sending to Janet.
That's the difference.
Leah
Dear Izzy,
Resolution and Restoration brings healing.
Truth is what really sets people free, as Ami openly agrees with here on board.
The truth is that Janet's Life Story has been abused.
Janet is a real person with a real life who has shared courageously of her life openly here on the board.
Acknowledgement and Accountability is essential in all walks of life.
Don't you think?
N's discount people and their life --- Non N's are different, they don't.
Respectfully,
Leah
Janet is upset about the generic term "friend" . I did not violate her in any way with Pm's b/c we just had this discussion yesterday. She felt violated b/c I talked about rejection from a "friend' which could have been anyone in the whole world.
It is really so over the top that it is not funny, Janet.I am truly sorry for you. I am sorry that you are needing to do s/thing of this magnitude to another human being
Janet
I am asking you to pull the thread b/c you are really humiliating me .IF you don't --then my worst fears have come true. I have been humiliated in front of everyone and I guess I will learn from that,too .
[
With respect,
What about Janet?
Maybe the PM feature should be dispensed with to avoid the possibility of abuse?
Bones
My point was that Ami is NOT the victim of some nasty forum member who 'rejected' her, because I didn't do that - read back through this thread to the copies of the PMs that I sent her yesterday, and you will see that it wasn't me who wanted to end the friendship.
Janet
leah
Janet and I had a friendship UNTIL she TOLD me NOT to PM her. Then ,I din't PM her anymore. You ,Leah, are twisting the entire situation in a way that is totally false. Leah-- don't be a" bearer of tales"
.
With respect,
There are no false tales as Janet has posted the PM's here in this thread for all to see after she was accused of being untrue.
Janet could have posted all the PM's but she did not.
What do you want know Ami? To push Janet into posting all the PM's onto the board?
Again, with respect,
You choose to betray the friendship and support that I had always given you here on this board.
My voice is out in the open here on the board, my wise choice and preference.
Never, have I engaged in any PM circle or such.
You were asking me if people had been PM'ing about you around the time of "My Aunt" thread, with Bill and Lise posting in your support.
What I explained was that "No" no-one had posted a PM to me of that nature and I very much doubted that they would either (not in the PM club)
And you never posted a PM again.
Instead you blatantly and cruelly betrayed and lied about me in Lise's thread -- with Lise supporting you all the way.
My wise choice was to not engage with either you, Ami, or Lise.
Again, I will not be a Bystander or a Silent Witness here on this board
just as 'Dismayed' has reinforced in the insightful postings to which 2 people responded.
Leah
I will not be a Bystander or a Silent Witness here on this board
No Gabben
If there had have been an ounce of any anger and hatred then it would have come out much much long ago.
Anyone who knows me will testify that they get annoyed with me simply because I don't get angry at all.
What purpose does it serve?
Only the purpose of: My NMother and My NFather
Why ever would I want to behave like them?
No thanks.
Janet
It is OVER. I didn't PM you after you made your feelings clear. That was it..It was over ,yesterday
I purposely mentioned a generic "friend" in my posts. WHO in God's name would tie it to you?
You mean Leah that after all of that physical violence that you had to suffer through...and it was a lot, more than most, you have never felt anger towards your parents?
Please, put all of us to shame.
Question for Leah -
Is my anger, which is about my hurt over my parents abuse, bothersome to you? I always feel ashamed and small because you preach forgiveness, as if just offering my parents and the years of hardwiring abuse up to God in one breath is the answer. If so, then can I have my therapy money back??
Also, even if you had some divine intervention from God that just healed you overnight so that you never get angry, wouldn't a genuine person not rub it in others faces who are hurting and trying to grow in love away from anger and self harm...I mean does not God say that there will be more joy in heaven over one repentant sinner than 100 righteous people?
If anyone suffers from depression or any form of self abuse - please raise your hand. If anyone has ever hurt someone else, please raise your hand. Are we not trying to forgive, everyday?
Peace,
Lise
Answer me this, Lise,
How many years have I been working through my life experiences
to arrive at this precious place of here and now, where I stand.
You tell me how many years it has taken
to work through
to my present place of restoration and healing.
Question for Lise:
How many years has it taken so far?
Question for Lise:
How many years has it taken so far?
As close as you and I were, when you asked me NOT to PM you anymore--- that was the end of the friendship---in MY mind.
I graciously wished you well . To me, it was over at that point.
With respect,
After going through all these postings again .....
The thing that really stands out clearly is that Janet asked you to stop posting about the secrets and lies as they were abusive
Ami, you never * saw * that
and you never apologised to Janet
And, Janet did not cut-off her friendship from you
Instead, Ami, it was you who cut your friendship off from Janet
with such finality.
That really strikes a chord here.
As far as quoting "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" I'd like you all to realize what happens next in that Bible story. The people begin putting down their stones and leaving...OLDEST TO YOUNGEST. Who of us are the oldest or most mature in these types of matters? Well, those should be the first to leave the stance of condemnation yet still stand in agreement with Jesus' statement "Neither do I condemn you. Go and SIN NO MORE." That must be our way of seeing someone even in the very act of a sin. Accountability yet no stones thrown...again my view only.
Laura
IF you have s/thing to say to me ,lighter,take your best shot--leave Lise out of it.
PM's to Ami yesterday included these:
"I think the world of you, and I don't want to see you hurt, as I keep on telling you, but I'm not going to go round in circles, discussing 'the next move' with you in something that I don't approve of.
I hope you understand what I mean, and why I'm saying it.
Janet"
*****
"I'm not saying I don't want to have anything to do with you.
It's just the **** thing is not something I want to have to deal with.
If you want to end our friendship, then OK - I'll always think more than just kindly of you. I think you're great, you've just got a lot to sort out.
Janet"
*****
"I'd still like to be friends, but for now, can we only talk on the forum, not by PM? That way, I can still help you, and talk things over with you, but I'd feel it was more 'open'. It's the secrecy thing that I don't like (not just with ****).
What do you think?
Janet
PS : I don't think you're 'bad', by the way, (but I think that *you* do)."
****
Post by: Ami on December 11, 2007, 08:07:24 PM
If you guys want to pig pile on me--have at it. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
LOOK and SEE
Do you realize that it was AMI herself who bounced the posting of the Bible Scripture on the first page, Laura
as an attempt to justify her behaviour to Janet with reference to the violation of the private messaging.
Janet has explained that is was not about the actual affair itself
BUT the secrets and lies
The abuse of her life story
Lack of Respect and Integrity
What of Deception on the board
We SEE one Ami BUT there is another AMI
Wwhatever happened to commonsense and integrity?
As I * see * it * clearly * throughout all posts read with care and attention.
An Observer who can * SEE * the real issue - the real truth
Leah - I commend you
Leah was attacked in the 'mirror' process
LOOK and SEE
Hey! Where is Bill?
Leah,
As far as me reading the thread from the beginning, I'm not sure, cause at this point, everything is so confused as to who said/did what, it's hard to tell what the beginning even was.
What I do perceive at this point, is that both ladies feel they did rightly. Ami said she respected Jan's boundaries. Jan felt she did not and was right to end the friendship.
I know that I had very similar struggles to what Ami does, so I understand what it feels like when someone ends a relationship. I also know how it feels when someone doesn't respect a boundary (which, again, Ami says she DID respect).
I'm guessing right now, that Ami has let this all just be, and Janet is fine with moving on too. Is that where it's all at? Since both women say they are telling the truth, yet their stories don't line up and I'm not an attorney, I think I'm forced to just leave this all alone and trust that it will work out in some way eventually. I feel no need to intervene nor to fix anyone or anything. It is what it is and as long as both parties are in their corners, maybe that's best.
~Laur
From Janets first post:
I decided to set a boundary, and told her that I no longer wanted to hear any details at all of the relattionship she is having. She agreed to respect my boundary....and then in the very next sentence, stomped all over it, by saying 'I respect what you are saying about ****. I just want to ask you WHY you think it is doomed--just your opinion' (and other questions, which I don't want to list here).
Then you misrepresented the PM in a public thread.
Now you are telling Leah what her feelings are.
All the while insisting that you have done nothing wrong....
This is what you say Ami : What I AM saying was Janet set a boundary and I ADHERED to it.
You did not adhere to it. Tell the truth Ami.
(whom I have discerned the identity, and in any case, whoever he may be, has my greatest respect)
Tell the truth Ami. You will begin to heal when you have the courage to tell the truth.
Just for the record, when Jesus says 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone' he is not saying we cannot point to behavior we disagree with or defend ourselves. He's saying we cannot condemn another. Doesn't seem to me that Janet is condemning Ami; merely pointing out a conflict and attempting to explain some cryptic posts.
Is that clanking I hear behind me the spector of Doc G with his big lock? God, I hope so.
mud
Lise, if you truly care about Ami, you will quit enabling her. I am not Leah. It doesn't matter who I am. This is real important for Ami's healing.
Tell the truth Ami. I know you can. I have faith in you.
Lise, when you make excuses that are contrary to the facts, you are enabling. When you blame the victim, you are enabling.
I know you know what the truth is Ami.
Tell the truth Ami. There is no shame in telling the truth. You will begin to heal if you tell the truth.
I am out of here. Lynch me in effigy.
Tell the truth Ami.
Ami is aware of her issues and she is already beating herself up enough. If she was to give in to this board and say "your right, I made a mistake -- it was selfish of me and inconsiderate of me to keep overstepping Janet's limits (which she already confessed to in a round about way on another post) then this board would lynch her, condemn her and them smugly say see told you so.....does she need that - what about compassion.
******************************* Like those asterisks?
As for Leah - The bible tells us to expose the wolf's in sheep's clothings....I'm not trying to tarnish your image...perhaps if you did not have an image, you would not have to defend against so much.
Trust me - I am no enabler. - I could less about being popular and liked and whatever...I love the truth to much for that.
Lise
If you guys want to pig pile on me--have at it. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Lise, when you make excuses that are contrary to the facts, you are enabling. When you blame the victim, you are enabling.
I know you know what the truth is Ami.
Tell the truth Ami. There is no shame in telling the truth. You will begin to heal if you tell the truth.
Ok, it's clear to me now. Janet raised a boundary, Ami respected it, as far as she could tell.
~Laura
Ok, it's clear to me now. Janet raised a boundary, Ami respected it, as far as she could tell.
~Laura
:: thumping forehead on Lighter's keyboard in disbelief ::
Ok, it's clear to me now. Janet raised a boundary, Ami respected it, as far as she could tell.
~Laura
From Janets first post:
I decided to set a boundary, and told her that I no longer wanted to hear any details at all of the relattionship she is having. She agreed to respect my boundary....and then in the very next sentence, stomped all over it, by saying 'I respect what you are saying about ****. I just want to ask you WHY you think it is doomed--just your opinion' (and other questions, which I don't want to list here).
Then you misrepresented the PM in a public thread.
Now you are telling Leah what her feelings are.
All the while insisting that you have done nothing wrong....
This is what you say Ami : What I AM saying was Janet set a boundary and I ADHERED to it.
You did not adhere to it. Tell the truth Ami.
My Yes was for Laura ,Amber. Amber ,you could be IN my house RIGHT now pounding my head against the floor and I would still stick to my perceptions-----Get it? Ami
Tell the truth Ami.
Laura said (meaning myself): Ok, it's clear to me now. Janet raised a boundary, Ami respected it, as far as she could tell.
Re-posted about Janet's view:
I decided to set a boundary, and told her that I no longer wanted to hear any details at all of the relattionship she is having. She agreed to respect my boundary....and then in the very next sentence, stomped all over it, by saying 'I respect what you are saying about ****. I just want to ask you WHY you think it is doomed--just your opinion' (and other questions, which I don't want to list here).
Then you misrepresented the PM in a public thread.
Now you are telling Leah what her feelings are.
All the while insisting that you have done nothing wrong....
This is what you say Ami : What I AM saying was Janet set a boundary and I ADHERED to it.
You did not adhere to it. Tell the truth Ami.
I always wanted to study Social Psycholgy. I was fascinated by things like the Milgrim experiment. Now, I am living in the middle of a lynch mob. The funny thing is that with all your hatred and all your vitriol, you have given me a priceless gift. If every single one of you "hates" me,I STILL did what I said. I am STILL here. I faced shame and humiliation and I am still standing. My WORST nighmare came true. I was shamed and humiliated in a public setting. THIS was the stuff of which my phobias were made,
Guess what? I have a few people who love me. God loves me. I have a core after all. WHO could endure THIS without a core.? So, all is well that ends well. Now, off to the gym!
Tell the truth Ami....
Quit battering her....
Tell the truth Ami....
Quit battering her....
Tell the truth Ami....
Quit battering her...
Emotional dramatic pointless interjection by Ami..... and she still hasn't left for the gym....
Tell the truth Ami.....
Quit battering her....
Tell the truth Ami.....
Ami's on her way to the gym.... again.... and she's even more dramatic and staunch in her refusal to question her motives and actions.....
Tell the truth Ami.....
OY... ::sigh::
Ummmm..... drama heaped on top of more drama..... ended with a flighty NOW OFF TO THE GYM! like she's a movie star trailing a beautiful long scarf, waving to all the little people who surely envy her and that simply must be the reason for all this attention she's receiving. ::nod::
Laura,
To repeat: no, you have not 'got it' yet.
Janet
Anon123:
Are you one of Leah's multiples?
You sound just like her.
Lise
Ok Janet. I'm getting it now.
D.) That, when Janet finally decided to end things,
~Laura
Unfortunately, I don't think we can get through to Ami. On past occasions, I have tried to get through to her and make her "see", but I was unsuccessful. Now that Ami views this as a lynch mob, I assume she is totally turned off from what is being said to her. I think Ami views this as the group attacking her (and in truth, she is being attacked), BUT, there is so much truth in what people are telling her, but she cannot hear it because she WON'T listen.
There are none so blind as those she will not see and there's none so deaf as those who will not listen.
I truly wish that Ami could just get out of her own way. Like many of us, she is her own worse enemy.
On the other hand, I also believe that Ami creates so much of her own drama and then swims, paddles, floats and drowns in the sea of her own self created drama. Ami, I know you refuse to see a therapist because your mother is one and because you spent years in therapy and alonon, but, I believe if you found a GOOD therapist, you could improve so much more rapidly then you have. Again, you won't listen and you persist in posting self torturing posts full of circular reasoning.
Ami, I know you are not open to this, but I have found that you often rationalize your actions so that what you do is OK. I think you need to become conscious and aware of what you do and what you say. As Mudd said, merely tossing out the line about casting the first stone does not justify and make OK the mistakes you made. We all make mistakes and we all need to be aware of our mistakes and not justify or rationalize our mistakes. Instead, we should face our mistakes and learn the lesson.
Ami, it does not serve your healing to dig your heels in and accuse everyone of hating and lynching you. That simply isn't true. Many here have compassion for you and want to see you heal, but you must be truthful with yourself. Although you may not want to admit the truth on the board, I hope you will admit the truth to yourself.
And please, find a good therapist to help you.
QuoteLaura,
ONE MORE TIME
"D.) That, when Janet finally decided to end things, "
I DID NOT END IT - I simply said I wanted no more PMs, and that we should 'converse' on the open forum only. It was AMI who said 'I do not care to be friends'.
I don't care whether you respond to me or not, but i realize that YOU DID NOT ORIGINALLY DECIDE TO END THINGS...however, did you NOT DECIDE TO FINALLY END THINGS WHEN AMI KEPT TALKING TO YOU ABOUT THE AFFAIR? THAT WAS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT WHEN I SAID "JANET FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINALLY DECIDED TO END THINGS"
YOU, yourself, Janet, told us ALL that you finally had enough and cut off the friendship...that is what I interpreted as you FINALLY DECIDING TO END THINGS. If that wasn't a final decision to END things, I don't know what you'd call it.
Ami may have originally said "I do not care to be friends." I never negated that. What I AM saying is that you recently decided to finally END things. GODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD I HATE TEXT TYPING! Much prefer in-person or phone calls. UGHQuoteI'm not discussing this any more with you, Laura. You seem to have mental block about understanding this.
Janet
Tayana,
Lise, I am disturbed that anytime a new member or anyone posts anonymously that you feel it is Leah. I don't know what the conflict between you and Leah is, but I don't think it is fair to assume that everyone is Leah just because you disagree with what the poster says.
Leah: Pastor Laura, I have NO issue with you.
Only the truth what everyone else can * see *
Respectfully,
Leah
There is no conflict whatsoever between myself and Lise.
QuoteThere is no conflict whatsoever between myself and Lise.
Leah, I'm sorry. I don't read all the threads on the board, and there's times I don't read for a couple of days, so I often miss things.
I dislike the way you are being defamed, because I value your opinions. You've given me good advice, and I always appreciate it.
With respect,
To anyone who is presently making wrong assumptions
Please allow my voice to clarify the truth .............
There is no conflict whatsoever between myself and Lise.
Lise's behaviour is of her own choice and free will
Lise made her own decison to set out on her own crusade in her attempt to Sabotage my Character
for the benefit of herself, and for the benefit of her friend Ami, who have formed an unhealthy, enabling pact.
Of whom, it is clearly evidently to all those who can * see * that they are unhealthily enmeshed.
This is the truth -- cannot you not * see *
If not, Why?
And, with respect,
Pastor Laura, I have NO issue with you.
Only the truth what everyone else can * see *
Respectfully,
Leah
I thought I said, earlier today, to keep God out of it?
for the benefit of herself, and for the benefit of her friend Ami, who have formed an unhealthy, enabling pact.
Of whom, it is clearly evidently to all those who can * see * that they are unhealthily enmeshed.
Leah,
Please know that you have my support and validation also. I think it is very obvious that you are being baited. Take a deep breath, Leah. Your new shoes fit you very well. It's time to leave them to themselves.
This is what abuse does, this is what it feels like. I'm exhausted from it too.
On Edit: You are being consistently falsely accused by another poster because you are speaking the truth.
QuoteI thought I said, earlier today, to keep God out of it?
Yes, please, keep God out of things.
Do you find that funny Lise? Because I don't.
I'm not Christian, and I dislike when people use God to defend their positions, whether their positions are wrong or right.
My sperm donor once told me, right after he'd walked out on me while I was pregnant with his child, that God would forgive him. The funny thing about it is, that he can't forgive himself.
So, please, leave God out of it. Leave religious beliefs out of these discussions, and if someone wants to look at things from a Bibilical perspective, start a new thread.
The Jezebel spirit is in contrast to the will of God. Her will has become god. Her will must be accomplished, regardless of the consequences. Not only did Jezebel steal authority, she manipulated those in leadership. She used lies and distortions. God waits for someone to stand up to her - to confront her.
Many succumb to the Ahab spirit and simply turn their heads from her tactics. They reason that, after all, she is religious and works hard in the Church. The greatest weakness among leaders is the fear of confrontation. They want peace without paying the price of confronting the manipulation and controlling tactics of the Jezebel spirit.
lighter,
::Handing Janet more ice::
Have you got any brandy that I could put it in?
Janet
finding peace stated: Janet’s point, I believe was multi-fold: one you could not maintain her boundary, once she drew the line in the sand firmly, you told her you didn’t want her as a friend (in other words, if she couldn’t give in to your wanting to discuss your friend – you did not want her for a friend), and then went to the board and claimed she rejected you, when in fact it was you that rejected her.
You guys can call me whatever you want. I am ready for this thing to be over. Maybe--if people stopped escalating-----,it would die. Escalating would be labeling s/one with a disorder--wouldn't it?
Please dont do this. Please.
This isnt helpful.
This is very hurtful.
It doesnt help the people involved.
It hurts your witness.
Please.
CB