Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Certain Hope on January 01, 2008, 09:44:38 PM
-
.... IS Abuse...
excerpted from http://www.aardvarc.org/child/about/emotional.shtml (http://www.aardvarc.org/child/about/emotional.shtml)
Silence is another way to emotionally neglect or abandon a child. In MY opinion, this one is the worst. By not sharing anything intimate or vulnerable with the child, or not sharing information that the child needs to grow and develop, the child is emotionally and intellectually alone without a means to get the information they need to grow and develop. Silence is another way of controlling. Information is power and when an abuser holds onto information, the child is left feeling vulnerable. The child will never know a sense of comfort by knowing that the caretaker has also felt vulnerable at times or has felt vulnerable as a child. I think this makes it hard for a child to allow themselves a vulnerability. Even as an abuser, this person is an adult who the child may feel they should grow up to be like. If it's bad for an adult to be vulnerable, it must be bad for a child to be vulnerable too, right?
These children learn how to become easy to use by becoming invisible; they become compliant and without needs, and they fear the consequences and the unknown state of being apparent, real, noticeable, with boundaries, and having needs.
-
Being Hurt . . . by what is not there
Provided by Prevent Child Abuse America
~ Adapted from "Emotional Neglect: Being Hurt by What is Not There" by Jon Korfmacher, Ph.D. C 1998 Prevent Child Abuse America. 1-800-CHILDREN: www.preventchildabuse.org
What is Emotional Neglect?
Emotional neglect happens when kids do not get the love and attention they need to feel good about themselves. Their parents will not tell them how much they are loved. Their parents will not show them affection, like hugs and kisses. Their parents will not tell them how important they are. Their parents will not say "Good job!" when they do something right.
A child who is physically neglected can be emotionally neglected. But emotional neglect can exist by itself. Children may be cared for in every other way, but not receive the love and attention they need.
Impact of Emotional Neglect
Studies that have looked at emotionally neglected children as they grow up show that these kids have many different problems. Some research has shown that emotionally neglected toddlers and preschoolers tend to be angry, refusing to follow directions, giving up easily when asked to do something and showing little joy or happiness.
Later in elementary school, research shows that neglected children tend to have a hard time making friends and paying attention in class, resulting in poor academic performance. These children tend to be angry and fight a lot.
When children show these sorts of problems, it becomes even more difficult for others to give children the warm and positive messages they need to feel better about themselves. So the problems continue and can get worse over time.
When children are emotionally neglected, it is as if a part of them dies inside. If you are a parent or another important person in a child's life, that child will look to you to help him or her feel good about himself or herself. When kids go through life without love and attention, they think they don't deserve it. They don't know how valuable they really are.
+ http://books.google.com/books?id=nr8Mrn1EHAoC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=emotional+neglect&source=web&ots=UlZf-NvkrD&sig=DhDFus-J4RD0ydyRALRM11HGw1s#PPA64,M1 (http://books.google.com/books?id=nr8Mrn1EHAoC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=emotional+neglect&source=web&ots=UlZf-NvkrD&sig=DhDFus-J4RD0ydyRALRM11HGw1s#PPA64,M1)
Child Neglect: Practice Issues For Health And Social Care.... book preview, especially beginning at pg. 23 (can't copy and paste)
-
Carolyn,
I need to spend some time pondering this very interesting material. Thank you.
tt
-
I can speak from experience. As I said before, my mother died when I was five. That left my father, a career military officer, to raise four children on his own. Quite a task I would agree, especially since I now have raised children.I often wondered why I was so afraid of him when he NEVER hit us, raised his voice, or restricted us. My only punishment was total silence if he disapproved. Could be for weeks on end and not only was it silence, it was if I didn't exsist. when I would speak he would ignore me and not even look my way. I learned early not to tick him off.
-
Hi Hope,
I thought you posted this just for me.
That is my childhood and maybe y'all can connect to what I've been saying--
When children are emotionally neglected, it is as if a part of them dies inside
For me tho' this part is not true--I can believe that a person doesn't have to fit every description of a problem---
Later in elementary school, research shows that neglected children tend to have a hard time making friends and paying attention in class, resulting in poor academic performance. These children tend to be angry and fight a lot.
Half Dead
Izzy
-
OMGosh, Leah.
That post is exactly what sums up my relationship with my NishMom.
Her talking at me. Lectures. Constant. Decades. Head spinning.
(Her new silence, because of great age, is such a balm.)
Hops
-
Dear tt,
I am still pondering it, too. All I could do last night was to copy and paste some of the material I was reading on the topic.
There is much more... re: apathy and indifference in parents and how that translates into emotional negligence/abuse.
I hope to add to this thread with more of what I've found, as possible. In the meanwhile, looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this subject
which lies at the root of my own voicelessness.Thank you, tt.
Dear Alone,
I never even realized that I was afraid of my mother until reading your post. Many other feelings would come to mind when I'd think of her,
but not fear. That one was buried so deeply... I still don't really feel it, only am aware that terror must have been what underlay all of the
elaborate mechanisms I built early on, to deal with the matter of surviving the frigid atmosphere at home.
(((((Alone)))))) I didn't exist either... and at the time, it didn't even register with me how very unnatural that was.
It wasn't even because I'd done something of which she disapproved, either. It was just because I was... and I don't remember when it began,
but I'm guessing it started the very first time I said, "no". Of course I don't remember ever saying "no", till I was a teen and even that was a matter
of survival, when I said that I wanted to quit all of these lessons in which she had me wrapped up, because I was a nervous wreck.
She drove me all around town for lessons of various sorts, but I don't recall her ever saying a word. There was no discussion when I quit, either.
Only a confirmation of the icy absence which had already became the basis of my unmothered life.
Dear Izzy,
I know. I thought of you, first. That section about poor academic performance and anger/fighting does not fit me, either, although I did have a difficult time knowing how to make friends
and never felt like I really fit or was a part of anything... any group or organization. I just became very passive.
Dear Leah,
I didn't post that other section because it didn't apply to me... but that was npd-ex's style, to a T.
I loved learning, too... and still do. Some children rebel... others turn inward, hence my lifelong addictions - to people, to alcohol and smoking...
all because I never had a parent willing to mirror the love I know that I offered. Well, my dad tried, but he undid alot of that when he'd use me as his venting
place for his frustrations re: his wife. That's how I think of her now. His wife. His problem.
More later... thank you all.
Love,
Carolyn
P.S. Hi, Hops... I recognize your mom in my own from later years.... so much. To this day, that's how she treats my kids, if she gets a chance. It's not mean lecturing, just all about her and they can't get a word in... which doesn't really matter, since she couldn't care less anyhow.
-
Dear Amber,
Knowing that their expectations likely know no limits - and are never going to include any concern for your best! - I surely do understand. So sorry you're having to deal with this even from the periphery... I know that sort of contact hurts.
I have been preparing myself to make similar decisions, if and when the occasion arises. I mean, an emergency is one thing, but... when you know that other arrangements can be made and much more easily/conveniently, why be compelled to go through some vain motions? I don't know how I'll handle things, but am trying to work myself up to the point where I have some confidence in myself not being so susceptible to or driven by the expectations of others.
I'm so glad to read you, Amber... was hoping you'd return soon!
About this article... I'm thinking you meant here that it was the incessant lecturing aspect which fits your circumstance and not the silence?
Happy New Year to you!
With love,
Carolyn
-
Thank you, Amber... over the past months, I've been able to gain a deeper understanding of that Role through your sharing here.
I only recall one very long silence... a lifetime of it. The Silence applied whether I was fulfilling expectations or not.
I mean, I don't remember feeling more visible or appreciated or loved when I was succeeding in the Role, only less stressed... maybe.
Alot of it is still a blur, but I think that I couldn't receive or apply any value which may have been attached to me for my performance of the Role
because I knew that it was never really me.
You wrote: "The message in the silence was that what I wanted - what I was proud of - what I cared about didn't matter."
Yes, always. Didn't matter, wasn't worthy, made me cheap and ordinary... common... irrelevant... weak.
"always pushed to do well, then like Lucy stealing Charlie Brown's football - when I did do well, So what? That's what you're supposed to do. Don't get a big head about it. Really does make one feel invisible; like you don't exist."
Yes, I know.
I think you've accomplished an enormous amount to be able to handle daily contact with your mom through her health crisis... and again, I thank you for sharing about it.
I'll remember when my time comes... for which, for some reason, I just sense I'm being prepared.
Very scary stuff, I'd say... but you sound so... adult, about all of it. So un-jarred.
I can think and feel that way, more maturely, about most things these days - but still need plenty of practice where my parents and brother are concerned.
Sitting here just trying to imagine my mom saying that she loves me... that'd be a first. Makes me nauseous, kinda.
You're absolutely right about hard habits to break. Maybe that's why I feel so compelled to take a good, hard look at this topic of silent neglect...
as though it's the last chapter in a book which I left unexamined for a lifetime and only now am ready to complete.
Oh, I'm still a non-smoker, Amber... and still using the nicotine lozenges as a crutch. Need to set myself a deadline on those, because I *should* have put them aside nearly a month ago.
The challenges continue...
Thank you so much for writing to me here.
With love,
Carolyn
-
In the lack of listening, I really dislike when a person ask you a question and does not care about your answer. Some to the point of abuse.
After a question, and you put excitement and thought in your answer and the person tells you, "look at that things", just anything to interrupt you.
They let piled mental excitement and cut you off. Typical.
-
Oh, Amber... if I hadn't been feeling so poor physically, and then had the catalyst of my teenaged daughter's plea for me to quit, I don't know that I ever would have summoned the will to just chuck the smokes.
It was a miserable first month... okay, 2 months... during which every aspect of my life was affected, beginning with that blood pressure surge. Returning to work made all the difference for me... got me out of my head and into a new role. Smoking wasn't my only addiction... I wasn't eating, at least not much and certainly not properly. Putting myself into a new environment with new challenges seemed to re-activate a healthier appetite, so that I began to feel more like a normal human being again (a longggggg distant memory). Now, nearly 4 months post-quit, I noticed over this holiday vacation that my blood pressure was diving down into the basement... so quit taking the meds... and it's been normal - nice and low - for the past few days, all on its own. Of course it's too soon to say whether it'll remain low without my prescriptions, but I'll continue going without and monitoring it... and hope and pray.
This is a rambling mess, but just to say - without scaring you or sounding negative - be prepared for some pretty hefty struggles when you do quit - BUT you can do it, Amber! If I can, you can... and I was not in the least bit (consciously) prepared for any of this. Heck, I was barely beginning to become conscious... lol.
Anyhow, still cheering you on over here!!
With love,
Carolyn
-
Silence is another way to emotionally neglect or abandon a child. In MY opinion, this one is the worst. By not sharing anything intimate or vulnerable with the child, or not sharing information that the child needs to grow and develop, the child is emotionally and intellectually alone without a means to get the information they need to grow and develop. Silence is another way of controlling. Information is power and when an abuser holds onto information, the child is left feeling vulnerable. The child will never know a sense of comfort by knowing that the caretaker has also felt vulnerable at times or has felt vulnerable as a child.
Its very interesting and thought provoking information, but I think this theory promotes emotional incest with one's children, and doesn't actually make a lot of sense. Sure, parents should not stone-wall their children. But they should not exploit them by dumping their needs for intimacy on them, or using them to fullfill loneliness or other unmet adult needs. Thats what emotional incest is all about!
Good parents are there to meet the childrens emotional and physical needs, not to use their children as surrogate spouses. I only wish more parents would understand this, and focus on getting their needs met via adults, rather than using their children. We'd have a lot less problems such as widespread mysogyny, silent-type males, and male engulfment issues.
-
These children learn how to become easy to use by becoming invisible; they become compliant and without needs, and they fear the consequences and the unknown state of being apparent, real, noticeable, with boundaries, and having needs.
That is the part that comes across as non-sensical to me, Shunned. A parent who is engaged in fulfilling a child's emotional needs, without burdening the child with THEIR adult needs and concerns, is not going to make a child feel invisible or stunt the child for life in the ways described above!! . Most likely they'll feel heard, valued, and a lot safer too. Emotional neglect does those things, not protecting the child from adult concerns and emotional needs.
These so call risks , to me, are way over-dramatised.
-
These children learn how to become easy to use by becoming invisible; they become compliant and without needs, and they fear the consequences and the unknown state of being apparent, real, noticeable, with boundaries, and having needs.
That is the part that comes across as non-sensical to me, Shunned. A parent who is engaged in fulfilling a child's emotional needs, without burdening the child with THEIR adult needs and concerns, is not going to make a child feel invisible or stunt the child for life in the ways described above!! . Most likely they'll feel heard, valued, and a lot safer too. Emotional neglect does those things, not protecting the child from adult concerns and emotional needs.
These so call risks , to me, are way over-dramatised.
Hi, Bella,
It never occurred to me that the info I offered here might be interpreted as advocating excessive emotional dependence of a parent upon a child. From my perspective, I took it as encouragement for parents to share their humanity with their kids and not wear a mechanical, unemotional mask of super-human strength. When a parent/caretaker refuses to acknowledge that it is only human to fear, to doubt, to long for emotional connection with others... that is indeed destructive. I don't know any better way for an adult to accomplish this important teaching than by sharing a personal instance of fear/doubt/need which was faced and overcome. At least, I believe that's what the author was attempting to convey... in no way suggesting that an adult should turn to children for emotional relief or support. It's just like anything else, to me... I learn best by example, especially from someone whom I know has already been there and done that.
I understand you to say that you think the risks as expressed here are very over-dramatised. I can only tell you that it was this very withholding of emotional realism and sharing which kept me boxed up within my own personal shell for a lifetime, because of parents who would never admit that they'd been wrong, feared, doubted, felt shame, etc. Indeed, I learned how to become invisible... all the while feeling as though I didn't belong anywhere, because I didn't know anyone who was honest enough to admit to his/her own failings and falterings.
Carolyn
-
In the lack of listening, I really dislike when a person ask you a question and does not care about your answer. Some to the point of abuse.
After a question, and you put excitement and thought in your answer and the person tells you, "look at that things", just anything to interrupt you.
They let piled mental excitement and cut you off. Typical.
Hi, Lupita,
I'm sorry, I missed your post earlier. I do know what you're saying... that's always happened to me alot, because I've been so soft-spoken and often hesitated quite a bit in my response... lots of pauses. I always just figured that people were losing patience with my slowness or quiet voice.
Aggravating though, I know... and it still happens at times, usually with folks who seem to be easily distracted, in general. Maybe it's just me, but I seem to notice alot more folks these days with symptoms of attention deficit!
Anyhow, I was posting here more about parents not acknowledging a child's emotional needs and concerns, but just ignoring them or holding silence, as though they expect the child to figure everything out for herself.
Thanks, Lupita.. and again, my apologies for taking so long to respond.
Carolyn
-
Dear Leah,
I know that I saw your disappearing post... because I clicked the book link and still have it here on my desktop...
just posting here between multiple interruptions and hadn't had an opportunity to explore it yet and respond.
Anyhow, thank you.
Carolyn
-
Dear Carolyn,
Oh, the book entitled "listen to your kids" etc.
I deleted it as I was unsure that it fitted into the thread.
The book came from your website link on post no.1
Amongst many other superb resource books therein.
Love, Leah
Oh, thank you, Leah, for explaining... now I see. I didn't want you to think that I wasn't interested in your post, just because I hadn't replied yet. I was in the midst of some stuff here at home and didn't have complete focus.
It's okay with me to have a variety of thoughts on the thread, but also I don't want to lose sight of the realization which first brought me to post it.
You see, for me... growing up... it was not even so much that my parents didn't know how to speak with me or what to say... it simply feels like they didn't think I was a worthy investment of that sort of energy.
Sometimes I wonder whether they themselves had been flat, single-dimensional people for so long already that they'd forgotten what it was like to need... anything... emotional. There was always alot of alcohol in the home, too, and since I've had my own experience with that, I now recognize how numbing that can be. And... in addition to my mother's perfectionism and obsessive compulsions, I have also come to suspect that she suffered from bouts of depression.
Anyhow, here is some more info that I've culled in my research on this topic of silence, because of the devastating effects of this on me and others I know... very much like being shunned from birth (or possibly from the first "No", at toddler age).
http://www.enotalone.com/article/9885.html (http://www.enotalone.com/article/9885.html)
Child Neglect by Child Welfare Information Gateway - 15 pages
Polansky's conceptual definition of child neglect is widely accepted:
(from pg. 8 )"A condition in which a caretaker responsible for the child, either deliberately or by extraordinary inattentiveness, permits the child to experience avoidable present suffering and/or fails to provide one or more of the ingredients generally deemed essential for developing a person's physical, intellectual, and emotional capacities."
Child neglect can have devastating effects on the intellectual, physical, social, and psychological development of children. Numerous studies have documented significant developmental problems in children who have experienced inadequate, neglectful parenting. However, studies of maltreated children often fail to differentiate between abused and neglected children, or they are based on very small samples of neglected children. There is a lack of attention given to differentiating effects related to ethnic or racial differences. There are also important mediating factors that buffer the effects of neglect on its victims.
Drawing on attachment theory, child development researchers have accumulated substantial evidence that neglected and abused infants and toddlers fail to develop secure attachments with their neglecting and/or abusive primary care providers. Because of the hostile, rejecting, inattentive, or inconsistent attention to their needs these very young children receive, they develop anxious, insecure, or disorganized/disoriented attachments with their primary care providers.
This lack of secure attachment relationship then hinders the infant's or toddler's ability to explore his/her environment and develop feelings of competence. The effects of neglect and abuse on young children's socioemotional development have been demonstrated to be over and above the effects attributable to poverty. But there are important differences in the effects on preschool versus school-aged children. Detrimental effects are lessened when the parents enjoy and encourage their children and have access to supportive community resources.
Social learning theory has also been employed to explain the differences that are found between abused and neglected children. Neglected children appear to be more generally passive and socially withdrawn in their interactions with peers, whereas abused children are more aggressive and active. Social learning theory suggests that neglected children's behavior is learned from the less active, socially withdrawn behavior that they observe modeled by their parents. Similarly, the abused children learn to imitate the more aggressive behavior of their parents.
(from pg. 9) Mediating Effects
Negative developmental consequences for neglected children are not inevitable. Other factors have been identified, which either buffer or add to the effects of neglect on children. Stability of the children's living environment has been identified as modifying the negative effects of maltreatment, whereas multiple out-of-home placements, multiple life stresses, and parental depression contribute to more negative developmental effects of neglect and abuse on children. Children with higher I.Q.'s also appear to suffer less serious developmental effects.
*************************
For the longest time, I kept thinking of how I used to run to hide when out in the yard and a car would approach... I just wanted to disappear.
This statement explained that to me: "These children learn how to become easy to use by becoming invisible; they become compliant and without needs, and they fear the consequences and the unknown state of being apparent, real, noticeable, with boundaries, and having needs."
In a very literal sense, that is exactly how I always felt as a very young child and the simple definition of "shyness" never quite covered it!
Carolyn
-
Thank you, dear Leah... very much.
I am so sorry about your nephews-in-law. By the grace of God, I can speak up a bit more now without fear or a mask, in person, face to face. For many years, all I could do was write. Without the mask of smiles I would feel naked, if not for confidence in God's promise to make my paths straight.
Love to you, too,
Carolyn
-
A friend on here shared about this topic. I'm now understanding why I do things Thank you for the post ,Certain hope.I was never physically abused. Its amazing how neglect silence can hurt you when your older. :shock: GBY cwings
-
Thanks for elaborating and sharing your thoughts on child neglect, Carolyn. It is such a shame that your parents neglected you too. They missed out on so much, and so did you!
I liked this second definition of child neglect much better than the first one:)
X bella
-
A friend on here shared about this topic. I'm now understanding why I do things Thank you for the post ,Certain hope.I was never physically abused. Its amazing how neglect silence can hurt you when your older. :shock: GBY cwings
Dear Cwings,
You're so welcome... and thank you for letting me know that it's helpful!
I'm recognizing that the effects of this neglectful silence are widespread and lifelong.
a sense of being alien... "other", apart from the rest of humanity... I mean, if my own mother and dad couldn't/wouldn't try to connect with me.
Surely the very rigid and legalistic church-school life into which they planted me for 12 years was enough, I guess they thought.
I was to be a cookie-cutter version of them, cold and flat - - - who could ask for anything more?
And now... they haven't changed, but I have. And I tried to tell them so... but I don't seem to be able to get through.
Mother wants me to boost her failing image and Dad wants to unload on me about mother, in between trying to set me straight about religion.
Says he respects my thoughts... but that was the end of any discussion. Says he'll have more to say when/if we see each other again, but I will not be cornered for
yet another of his in-your-face monologues. If he won't write it in a letter, then it won't get discussed. And yet again, for the millionth time, I am just thanking God that we're 1,000 miles apart.
I've gotta say - it really blows my mind how some people think they've got a relationship with you when they've never communicated a thing beyond their own pre-set patterns.
Like a radio station with just one button... and that only plays static.
Here's a bit more of what I found in research...
thanks again for writing, Cwings. Off to work now... God bless you, too, dear one.
With love,
Carolyn
Excerpted From: Emotional Child Abuse: The Invisible Plague
By Susan Jacoby
Reader's Digest, February, 1985
http://www.nospank.net/jacoby.htm
Dr. Jay Lefer, a New York Psychiatrist and former editor of the newsletter for the Society of Adolescent Psychiatry, refers to the "four Ds" of emotional abuse: deprivation, distancing, depreciation and domination. Abusive parents may use one or all of the four Ds to play out their own psychological conflicts and avoid facing up to the real pressures of child-rearing.
Deprivation and distancing. When five-year-old Sally broke her arm in a playground accident, her kindergarten teacher didn't realize the child was hurt until she found her weeping silently in a corner. At the hospital, where the teacher met Sally's mother, the little girl didn't turn to her mother for comfort. Instead, she went off quietly with a nurse and didn't seem to notice when her mother ignored the nurse's invitation to accompany them. "Rather than put her arms around her child, the first thing the mother did was look for a coffee machine," said the teacher. "I could see why Sally didn't tell me she was hurt. She was accustomed to being ignored."
Psychologically unavailable parents rarely cuddle a crying baby or express much interest in the infant's development. As a result, their babies fail to develop what psychologists call a secure attachment to their parents. When securely attached children need reassurance, they know they can get it from their parents-and; eventually, from other adults who care for them. "A physically abused child will avoid the caretaker for fear of being hit," says psychologist Egeland. "An emotionally abused child does the same thing to avoid the disappointment of not being accepted."
*******************************************
http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/research/lakoff/mp21?b_start:int=2
The Indifferent-Uninvolved Model of Parenting -
1. Tending to orient one's behavior primarily toward the avoidance of inconvenience.
2. Responding to immediate demands from children in such a way as to terminate the demands.
3. Being psychologically unavailable
The findings for the Indifferent-Uninvolved model were as follows (see Maccoby and Martin, pp. 48-51): Children of psychologically unavailable mothers showed deficits in all aspects of psychological functioning by the age of two, greater deficits than occurred with the other patterns of parental maltreatment. In four- to five-and-a-half-year olds, paternal uninvolvement correlated with aggressiveness and disobedience. Things get worse by the age of fourteen: Children were:
impulsive (in the sense of lacking in concentration, being moody, spending money quickly rather than saving it, and having difficulty controlling aggressive outbursts), uninterested in school, likely to be truant or spend time on the streets or at discos; in addition, their friends were often disliked by their parents. [They] tended to start drinking, smoking, and heterosexual dating at earlier ages. Continuities to the age of 20 were found. At this age, [they were more likely] to be hedonistic and lack tolerance for frustration and emotional control; they also lacked long-term goals, drank to excess, and more often had a record of arrests.
They were also less likely to have strong achievement motives and to be oriented to the future. Neither of these findings would surprise either an authoritarian, authoritative, or harmonious parent.
*******************************************
http://books.google.com/books?id=LM-lW1CyntAC&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=psychologically+unavailable+parent&source=web&ots=czsWMOpa5a&sig=SJIG2L4LCzQDgi_lLbnlFMyiy-0#PPA34,M1
- from Pg. 34+
In the pattern of rejection, the child is turned prematurely away from the parent toward independence.
The affects toward the child range from coldness and sternness to wishing the child away or dead.
Essentially, the parent communicates to the child that he is disliked or unwanted. The parent in addition may neglect the child
be being physically or psychologically unavailable. The child learns at an early age to turn his attention away from the parent
when needing comfort and that independence and individual strength are highly valued.
.... The child's inability to obtain responsive care from the parent leads to a working model of relationship reflecting confusion and struggle.
.... Parental behaviors derived from fear are especially frightening to children, who cannot comprehend their cause.
In these cases, the child is presented with an unresolved paradox inherent in the parent-child relationship.
The safe haven is also a source of alarm. Moreover, the conflict between opposing tendencies to approach and to flee from the attachment figure
stems from a single external signal (threatening or fearful parental behavior). This approach-avoidance conflict is internalized by the child.
... It is the human context of subjective experience that contains the imprint of trauma.
Situations in which the parent is unable to receive the child's communications in an empathic manner, perhaps because of her own psychopathology or traumatic experience,
tend to exacerbate the child's difficulty and perpetuate the internal conflict.
For the child, the result is confusing, frightening perceptions of external reality.
Burdened by these intense experiences, the child resorts to maladaptive defenses of denial, avoidance, and splitting.
These defenses curtail differentiation and integration of feelings and result in enmeshed pathological representations of self and other and/or
disorganized attachment systems...
Pg 38 - When a parent is deficient in her capacity for mature empathy, her relationship to her child is also impaired. The synchrony within the duet is not harmonious, and the relationship becomes symptomatic...
from avoidance and rejection, to role reversal, to aggression and fighting, to immoral acts...
*************************************
Turned me into an internal delinquent, that's what it did.
-
I used to run to hide when out in the yard and a car would approach... I just wanted to disappear
[
(((((((((((((((((((little Carolyn))))))))))))))))))))))))
Hello, come out, what a wonderful little girl you are,
it would be so nice to get to know you!
You are so smart. What are you playing?
Pretend? That's a great game. You be the
director, I'll be in your play.
Sometimes I think kids just need an occasional bout of that kind of play,
where a delighted adult "turns over the reins" and lets the child have
free rein, just to monologue, and share their wandering (fascinating)
thoughts, and try on the feeling of authority. It has time limits and
boundaries, but I always loved adults who would pause to play w/me.
love
Hops
-
(((((((((((Amber))))))))))))
(((((((((((((Hops))))))))))))
Love to you both and thanks for being here with me on this thread.
And Hops... you've given me an image to put in place of all those times I ran to hide...
and I'll remember... because sometimes still, that's all I want to do.
With love,
Carolyn
-
Amber,
I have to go off to work, where I'll think some more on what you've written and try on your shoes for a bit.
Because there was never a Ruth for me, I had to create my own Ruth, it seems... and that thought startles me.
That burst of fourteen-year-old activity didn't manifest fully till 18, and lasted nearly 4 years, till my first child... (with brief relapses thereafter)... and then Ruth woke up and did her mothering role, far better than I was taught to do.
ohh boy, I have alot to ponder. Thank you, Amber... I am on slow motion with this topic because it's at ground zero for me... and of all those who have neglected, it is I who have mostly neglected myself.
Carolyn
P.S. Will be back this evening, I hope... for now, here is some more of what I've researched and saved:
From: http://books.google.com/books?id=NncyUz0SOUkC&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=psychologically+unavailable+parent&source=web&ots=Je3R7I3HuL&sig=UdLpL6P8QNe9Cnqs0jeuNI2n7WQ (http://books.google.com/books?id=NncyUz0SOUkC&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=psychologically+unavailable+parent&source=web&ots=Je3R7I3HuL&sig=UdLpL6P8QNe9Cnqs0jeuNI2n7WQ)
Coping With Trauma - Hope Through Understanding, by Jon G. Allen, PhD. - Pg. 15
Many patients in treatment for trauma-related problems give a history of emotional neglect and suffer from a sense of emotional deprivation.
The concept of
psychological unavailablility
aptly describes their experience with caregivers.
The psychologically unavailable parent is unresponsive to the child's signals, especially the child's pleas for warmth and comfort.Although physically neglected children are often emotionally neglected as well, psychological unavailability often takes place in the context of adequate physical care.
Plainly, psychological unavailability results in attachment trauma, and it's not surprising that such emotional neglect leads to problems in attachment relationships
with peers. Indeed, psychological unavailability may be the most subtle yet most severe form of maltreatment.
*************************************
From: http://books.google.com/books?id=3WF_Q6iB83AC&pg=PA500&lpg=PA500&dq=psychologically+unavailable+parent&source=web&ots=_A9MVySzEE&sig=XIuBfqU1BuT8D0XxYMxFcZ3vTnE (http://books.google.com/books?id=3WF_Q6iB83AC&pg=PA500&lpg=PA500&dq=psychologically+unavailable+parent&source=web&ots=_A9MVySzEE&sig=XIuBfqU1BuT8D0XxYMxFcZ3vTnE)
Handbook of Attachment - Theory, Research, and Clinical Apps - pg. 500
When a child is unable, despite many attempts, to form stable and secure relationships with caregivers,
he or she develops a model of the self as a failure. Any subsequent loss or disappointment is then likely to be perceived as
reflecting that the child is a failure.
When a parent gives a child the message that he or she is incompetent or unlovable, the child develops complementary models of the self as unlovable
and of the other as unloving. Thus the child and later the adult will expect hostility and rejection from others when in need.
Cummings and Cicchetti (1990) have suggested that these experiences of having a psychologically unavailable parent are similar to the experience of actually losing a caregiver,
in that the child experiences frequent or even chronic losses of the parent.
Interestingly, Bowlby's formulation is compatible with Seligman's learned-helplessness theory of depression,
as Bowlby (1980) himself noted. Seligman proposed that hopelessness, and hence depression, develops when noxious events occur that are experienced as uncontrollable.
Each of the set of circumstances specified by Bowlby involves a sense of uncontrollability on the part of the child... even as a result of the parent's disappointing responses to him/her.
*************************************
A.J. Mahari writes: http://www.borderlinepersonality.ca/2006bpdandabandonwhatisabandonment.htm (http://www.borderlinepersonality.ca/2006bpdandabandonwhatisabandonment.htm)
"As I write about in my ebook, The Legacy of Abandonment in Borderline Personality Disorder, for the young child who experiences a core wound of abandonment there are memory imprints where there were no words or developed cognition to otherwise interpret, understand, and remember the trauma of the abandonment. So the fact that the psychological and/or emotional pain of abandonment is underpinned by biological and chemical processes on a physical level not only makes sense but greatly contributes to the legacy of the woundedness of such a prolific and lasting injury.
Abandonment literally means to completely and finally leave, physically or emotionally. Abandonment is a surrendering of responsibility to a child. It is a withdrawal, a discontinuation of care, nurture, love, and/or support.
Abandonment on a psychological level is a detachment from the kind of emotional involvement that means one is emotionally available to and for one’s child.
Being emotionally unavailable to take care of the physical and/or emotional/psychological needs of a child can result from a mother being simply inexperienced, or depressed, being addicted to drugs and/or alcohol,having her own unresolved abandonment wounds threaten to rise up as the baby cries for comfort. The abandoning detachment may result in a mother or primary care-taker’s inability to cope effectively with the neediness of an infant or with the demanding nature of an infant. It may mean that a mother or care-taker has low frustration tolerance. It may mean that a mother or care-taker doesn’t know how to effectively cope and meet many of her own needs and when a young child’s needs compete, if you will, with her unmet needs, the result from the mother or care-taker may be any degree of anger that ranges from impatience to frustration, or from hostility to agitation, or from annoyance to rage.
Young infants will pick up on impatience, annoyance, hostility and agitation. They do not have to experience outwardly expressed anger or rage or yelling to get a sense of a lack of nurture and to feel and experience abandonment.
Abandonment is also present for any child whose parent is not only inconsistent but incongruent in their response to the needs of the child. Being there one time when a young infant cries, then not being there the next five times, then being there again sort of thing will result in a child feeling abandoned and leave that child struggling to feel safe with any sense of attachment to that parent or care-giver.
Abandonment is often not one huge negating or abusive act. It can often be a series of failures on the part of the parent to meet the needs of the young child. Anything less than dependable, consistent and congruent reasonable nurture, support, and soothing, will more times than not result in an abandonment experience and cause the child to have abandonment anxiety.
-
Dear Amber,
I saw you were online and wanted to let you know that I've just read your post here.
I can only imagine the intensity of your feelings as you first began to bring Twiggy's memories back into consciousness.
My own childhood memories are generally very tame, with no specific instances of trauma or physical abuse, just an ever-
present undercurrent of.... well, I don't even know what to call it. Negativity? All of that got directed inward.
And yet when I try to dig to the bottom of all that, even now, it can be overwhelming. At those times, I still can feel drawn back into a self-shaming cycle and remember how I used to lie in bed, counting, trying to get a fresh start at perfection... ack.
But as you've said, it's all from a greater distance, now... and I guess it's just going to take more processing at different levels until, at last... well, I'm not sure what, exactly... something between objectivity and resignation? I don't mean that in a depressing way, just looking forward to that final sort of settlement and not sure what to call it. Settling in place, as you've said... yes. Your artist's eye sees things so much differently than mine... which often is so mundane, and yet I recognize that maternal instinct you've mentioned... and I think that I've felt it.. toward myself, for a change, and not only for my children and others who are in need of comfort.
I have thought volumes about my relationships with my three girls and I'm so glad you raise the topic. Will be thinking more on that... or rather inviting thoughts to flow, which seems to be how it works for me. I extend the invitation and look out - ready or not, here come the thoughts... and feelings.
Amber, I don't see you dancing away from your feelings... but that may be my own selfish outlook speaking, because all I have, often, are the feelings... with no troubleshooting guide from which to begin the analysis. I just so very much appreciate your style of exploring these things and your graciousness in sharing your insights here. What you do has always helped me to recognize myself, in ways I'd never expected... and so I am just very glad and thankful if any of this helps you to find what you need.
Well, I've taken so long to type this amidst numerous distractions, that I don't know whether you're still on, but I'll post it and try to add more as possible. I hope that you have a restful, satisfying weekend.
Carolyn
-
Amber, I'm finding some more resources and will share some notes here. I'm not tidying them up, just letting it flow.
Whenever you get back, there may be alot (or not), but it helps me to know that some of this is helping you, too, so I'm feeling a bit inspired to continue.
http://books.google.com/books?id=-KBT_VWZ8AsC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=parents+emotionally+absent&source=web&ots=Lsyw992j6x&sig=sQoVSEvvFdy7THWK8GTeZEJ8GB4#PPP1,M1
Excerpts from the book Boundaries - Where You End and I Beginby Anne Katherine, MA
There are many pages left out of this particular book preview, but it's easy enough to fill in the blanks and
this caught my eye (pg. 18), re: a young woman who didn't know how to deal with inappropriate touch from men she barely knew. She allowed a good deal of unwanted contact, because of her lack of good boundaries. I can surely relate.
"Both physical and emotional boundary development are harmed by distance violations,
not just intrustion violations."
Wow. So now I see.... although I was not really intruded upon physically as a child, I also received
no safe physical affection or emotional support. More confirmation - the absence of appropriate physical and emotional contact is equally as devastating as the presence of physical and emotional abuse.
The women whose stories are recounted in this book were not encouraged to talk about their feelings or
helped to bring those feelings into awareness, so they never learned that feelings can be used to help
determine a course of action. It's so obvious... but I am just now getting it. To continue -
Our Feelings Are Rich in Information
"When we yell, we know we yelled because we hear it (unless our hearing is impaired). Our ears give us immediate feedback that
we've made a sound. We can then modify the sound to accurately convey what we mean.
Similarly, we need a reaction, feedback, when we're feeling something. When the feedback is accurate, our feeling unfolds and becomes clearer.
An echo bounces your words back to you.
A warm response brings your feelings back to you. You get to know yourself better.
This combination - of effective feedback and knowing yourself better - creates an emotional boundary. It fills in the circle of who you are and creates
a space outside of you of who you aren't."
And I sit here saying: Duh! I didn't know. My children are able to talk about their feelings, but I never realized that I hadn't... as a child... ever, that I recall.
And now, finally, I know why.
There is much more...
"Our feelings are rich in information about how we are reacting to the world.
They tell us when something seems dangerous or threatening or safe.
As children we are taught to write and speak a language
and we are also taught how to handle feelings."
(Well... I don't think I was taught that!)
"we learn how to do this by watching others handle them..."
(Oh, I see... right, I learned to handle them by not dealing with them - by the silent treatment.)
"and we learn how to do this by the way our feelings are responded to."
(apparently the latter is not applicable to me since I do not remember ever expressing a feeling verbally as a child. Ever.)
There are examples of various parental ways of handling children's feelings on pg. 19.
Through my own parenting, I've learned how to respond appropriately to my own childrens' feelings and to help them draw those out, when they can't identify them.
But I have no memory of being allowed to have feelings myself, as a child, let alone being invited or given permission to express those.
What I am seeing now is that apparently I was supposed to just come of age by osmosis somehow, make a success of myself so that I could rejoice in my trappings and collect a load of material stuff to worship,
and sedate myself with alcohol if any feeling other than bliss reared its head.
That was the parental plan... to follow in their footsteps... and I nearly did.
More on this book later.
-
Feelings Connect Us With Meaning
(OR NOT!)
We learn emotional boundaries by the responses we get.
When our feelings are met with disapproval, harshness, or stiff-upper-lip messages, we learn to push them down,
to separate ourselves from our feelings, and to ignore the valuable information they have for us.
When feelings are met warmly, when we are encouraged to talk about them and helped to identify them,
and when a parent correctly interprets our facial expression, our body language, and the feelings connected with it,
our understanding of our inner selves grows. Learning about and connecting with feelings is essential for complete
boundary development.
Without a Mirror, We Can't See Ourselves
If, as we are growng, people are too emotionally distant,
we grow as if in a vacuum.
We don't have the necessary feedback, the echo, that helps us differentiate.
Without a mirror, we can't see ourselves. Children who've suffered from this type of
abandonment adapt in several different ways.
Some become loners, unable to let anyone close.
Having never connected with their own feelings, they have little ability
to connect with others.
Some fill themselves up with the identity of someone else.
If our inner spaces are empty, we are vulnerable to filling them
with someone else's agenda. Such a person can be like a chameleon,
taking on the values and reactions of whomever they are with.
Sometimes a child is abandoned emotionally but taught to revere certain values.
Anyone in a void will cling to whatever's offered...
(whether that may be religious teachings, a military ethic, workaholic-ism, materialism...)
A child in a void can fill up with this even if she is not actively taught.
She need only observe and the vacuum will fill.
If one parent is emotionally distant and the other is enmeshed with the child,
the void created by one parent is filled with the needs of the other...
and that's about the end of this preview.
-
[/color][/b]
I have taken the recommended actions, however, it causes me to feel as though I am practicing neglectful silence. Can someone help me make sense out of what seems like two extremes? When I do self talk, self says you simply must take another route, i.e., as described by lollie, but then I feel like a heel for how often it turns into silence. Do you think it is OK for me to do the Medium Chill and let the chips fall where they may? [/color] [/b] [/b]
tt
Dear tt,
I've practiced a version of this Medium Chill with my mother for some time... with similar results. It turns into silence. Well, occasionally, she lashes out with mild nastiness, but that only receives a High Level Chill response from me.
And yes, I often feel like a heel afterwards... and yet I realize that the alternative is to reinforce the negative behavior by trying to respond as I would to a non-N'ish person, and that is not acceptable.
So I'm not personally settled and happy with this method (yet), but I don't know what else to do other than to let the chips fall.
Carolyn
-
Dear Amber,
Thank you so much for your input on this. Having grown up in one of those stiff-upper-lip-vacuums, I treasure your feedback!!
That working space between objectivity and resignation is freedom... oh, I hope so, Amber... I need to ponder on that, but I do feel the pull to that zone, as well. Subjectivity filled with overwhelming emotion still swamps me at times, but it's short-lived, and then I quickly feel the terra firma beneath my feet.
You know, at one point (not so long ago) I deliberately shoved aside that Role... only to find that there wasn't enough of me firmed up to stand, apart from it. That was terrifying. This is much better now. And I know what you mean about the music. During Christmas vacation, I signed up for Napster :) Just surfing the possibilities there and listening brought out so much. I was going to tell you that I've still not completely sorted it all, but actually, it feels more like incorporating which remains to be done, than sorting. I guess alot of the sorting had already happened just beneath the surface, as I've been able to talk and share here.
Re: this part -
Hubby wants me to write all this in a book; he thinks it'll be a way to finally be "done" with all of this. But I don't think that kind of catharsis works when it's our experience of ourselves we're trying to understand. I have a feeling I won't ever be "done" - but it will occupy less of my time. This type of freedom comes with responsibility, it comes with directing "maternal instinct" toward my self, for even mirroring my self to my self (god - that sounds Nish... I hope you can hear what I'm trying to say). I guess maybe through mothering my self, I can wipe away the incorrect perceptions I have about myself; adjust the negative feelings I have about myself; that came from being my mother's mirror.
I agree with you, Amber... because the getting it out only leaves so much to be sorted and incorporated. It's just not that simple, because a whole new process is initiated and we cannot reprocess our entire childhoods in the blink of an eye. I hear what you're saying and it's not a bit Nish, because N has no true self to mirror! We do!! It's just been buried beneath such heaps of distortion... and yet we recognize it, we know it, when we sense it. N doesn't. Hmm.. that's not coming out too well, but I hope you know what I mean...
And I completely understand what you mean about the connection of smoking, at least the part about it being tied together with resentment when harried = a time-out to feel yourself being yourself... exactly. That was my way of using cigarettes, too... although I never reached that level awareness at the time. Thank you so much for sharing this, Amber... maybe it will help me to leave behind the nicotine lozenges, as well!
As far as figuring out what to do about it, now that you're aware of the resentment issues... all I can think of is the bitter root which old resentments form, Amber... and the only remedy I know for that is forgiveness (((((()))))).
You asked: "Carolyn: is there anything you've kept from your childhood? Something like a toy or a book that you can sit with, psychic medium style? It might help you remember feelings you had then; bring them out of the background into the foreground."
Well, I have this old secretary-desk with a glassed in cabinet atop, which has been mine since about 3rd grade and in which is displayed (or rather, stored) miscellaneous collectibles, many gathered when I was a young child. Of all the sorting and organizing and rearranging I've done since I first began to regain my health (post-N), this is the one and only material thing remaining to be done.
It's occurred to me enough to be a puzzlement... Why have I been so reluctant to tackle that one? The knick-knacks inside are really a jumbled disarray.... and yet I keep procrastinating. But now, Amber, you've shown me why I have been so shy of that cabinet... and it's fear.
I don't know if the little girl who so treasured those things wants to hold and touch those things again, but we shall see...
guess I'd best have a little talk with her.
Hugs, Amber... thank you so much,
Carolyn
-
Some more notes on this topic of Neglectful Silence and the deep sense of loss and abandonment it creates:
Changing Course - Healing from Loss, Abandonment, and Fear
by Claudia Black, Ph.D.
http://books.google.com/books?id=zDZolMbID7AC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=emotional+abandonment&source=web&ots=LsU2zrmXr-&sig=ZAMxXarqYs89t4Q7UuGXRgVPZJI#PPP1,M1 (http://books.google.com/books?id=zDZolMbID7AC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=emotional+abandonment&source=web&ots=LsU2zrmXr-&sig=ZAMxXarqYs89t4Q7UuGXRgVPZJI#PPP1,M1)
The Past = Living by the Rules: Don't Talk, Don't Trust, Don't Feel
The turning point comes with a new awareness:
There is another reality than the one I live and I want it.
And then a new willingness:
I am willing to take some risks to have it.
(pg. 8)
Loss is not always a result of what does happen;
sometimes loss is the result of what does not happen. Maybe you had a need that went unnoticed. Maybe you did not hear a parent say, "I love you"
or "You are special".
The loss could also be a result of what you didn't get to say because your parents weren't available,
or what you didn't get to do with them, such as play or work on projects.
Words and time are important to all children as they grow up.
They convey to us that we are valued.
About the Rule of Silence (pg. 10)
Many of us just didn't know what to say.
We couldn't make sense of peoples' behavior.
We didn't understand or know what was really happening and
we had no language to describe it.
What we knew most were our feelings and it was made clear to us
that we weren't supposed to talk about them.
Growing up with denial makes it easy to be in denial today - and not know it.
We discount our feelings and perceptions.
We rationalize hurtful behaviors.
We tell ourselves something isn't important when it is.
We even tell ourselves certain things don't happen much when they occur frequently.
We don't speak our truth.
When we spend years learning to minimize, discount, or rationalize, it's only normal to continue to do so as adults.
We are so skilled in denying that we do it without conscious thought.
The Loss of Unconditional Security and Self-Worth
Internalized shame becomes the foundation of a person's trauma.
To live with shame is to feel alienated and defeated, never quite good enough to belong.
It is an isolating experience that makes us think we are completely alone
and unique in our belief that we are unlovable.
Secretly, we feel like we are to blame. Any and all deficiency
lies within ourselves.Gershen Kaufman, author of Shame: The Power of Caring,
said - "shame is without parallel, a sickness of the soul."
Underneath layers of shame you will find that abandonment is at the foundation.
This abandonment is most often experienced through various forms of rejection, rejection that has been colored
by parental words and actions, some subtle, some not so subtle.
It is useful to visualize a continuum, with acceptance at one end, rejection at the other end,
and many shades of emotional unavailability or parental indifference to your needs and wants somewhere between.
About Changing Course -
To change course, be it a minor shift or a major turn in your life,
does not mean giving up who you are -
it means letting go of who you are not.
It means letting go of your pain.
You are not your pain.
It means letting go of an undesirable family script.
You are no longer an unwitting character in someone else's life now that you understand you have the freedom to choose.
Each insight into your past and its connection to your present is like
turning on the light in a dark room. It doesn't change what is there, but
now that you can see where you're going, you can go in and out freely without harm.
Fear no longer drives you - freedom moves you.
Each of these awarenesses bring you new choices.
Each new awareness is a turning point.
About Finishing the Past -
(a quote of John, adult child of an alcoholic, as quoted by Stephanie Brown, in Safe Passages -)
"In this dream, I was stationed underground, in the grave...
This was my company, my life, my mission - to watch over the bones.
And then slowly... I walked away and climbed out of the grave,
into the sun and the wide expanse of the world...
I turned one last time to say good-bye.
The vigil was over."
Amen.
-
I hope you won’t mind if I jump into this discussion. I have been pondering these issues for a while and believe that abandonment may be a key for me.
My variation on the theme here is that my parents did ask me about my feelings and how I felt, but very often, after I told them how I felt, they proceeded to tell me why/how my feelings were wrong, as in “you shouldn’t feel that why” and then they would tell me why I shouldn’t feel sad, scared, etc.
I think that this caused me to always second guess my feelings and not trust my feelings, because my parents taught me that my feelings were “wrong”. I also think this caused me to not trust or believe in my feelings and that led me to rationalize the behavior of other people. So if I felt that I did not like someone or something, I always second guessed myself because I was taught that my feelings were wrong.
So, is being taught that you cannot trust your feelings like a form of abandonment? Second guessing my feelings made me feel isolated, alone and confused.
Now, I try very hard to identify my feelings and trust what I feel. It’s so much better, like the difference between standing on firm ground instead of quicksand.
Thank you.
-
Anne,
Well said and welcome!
...because my parents taught me that my feelings were “wrong” [....]this caused me to not trust or believe in my feelings and that led me to rationalize the behavior of other people.
boy, does that sum up my trail of tears.
Thanks, Anne. Hope you'll start a thread and share your story,
when you'd like to.
best,
Hopalong
-
Many of us just didn't know what to say.
We couldn't make sense of peoples' behavior.
We didn't understand or know what was really happening and
we had no language to describe it
WOW Carolyn,
All of your post #44 is absolutely insightful and so very life enhancing.
I have copied the above as that describes how I quite literally did not know how to describe one single jot and tittle.
Thank you for posting all of this, sincerely.
Love, Leah ~ who is so grateful for new awareness
Thanks, Leah... I am so glad it meant something to you.... because that part, amongst others, describes me, too... absolutely without words or frame of reference, for so many years.
There was so much silence... even the noise was silent, at the root, because it overflowed with false-ness.
Yes, the Rule of Silence and all of that (post #44) is indeed from that one book by Claudia Black, excerpts of which I typed up from the google book preview several days ago.
It's been brewing within me ever since, convincing me that this is a book which I may want to purchase.
Again, I am so pleased and thankful to know that you've valued this bit of information... (((((((Leah))))))
************************************************
Dear Anne,
Welcome and please do continue to join in! The notion that abandonment lay at the root of my own lifelong voicelessness is a very recent awareness for me, so I'm most grateful to hear and learn other folks' views on this.
I can see that our end results have alot in common. You wrote:
I also think this caused me to not trust or believe in my feelings and that led me to rationalize the behavior of other people. So if I felt that I did not like someone or something, I always second guessed myself because I was taught that my feelings were wrong.
Yes, in spades. For me, because I had no idea how to even identify my feelings, let alone to discern when they should be spurring me to action (or inaction) within relationships. Living that way is like trying to navigate life in this world without a skin or any protective covering at all... absolutely vulnerable. So I sank into denial and avoidance, for the most part.
Yes, Anne, I definitely believe that being taught that your feelings are wrong/irrelevant is a form of abandonment...
in fact, basically, it's like being taught to abandon your self and take on someone else's reality, to be what? A clone with no personal identity? An empty shell? That's how it felt to me.
(((((((((Anne))))))))) I do hope you'll continue to post.
******************************************
(((((((((Amber))))))))) Gotta finish supper prep here, but I'll be back. I'm so glad you posted again and... YES, this is indeed most useful, imo :)
Love to you all, with thanks,
Carolyn
-
((((((((((((Besee)))))))))) I want to spend more time responding later, definitely, just wanted to say that I also don't seem to have that deep longing, aching emptiness for my mother. Feels to me like she squelched that longgg ago, maybe at the same time that she taught me how not to feel much of anything at all. Now that all the other emotions are being restored, that one seems to be missing. I pity her...
but I just don't know what else there is in me for her. I want to find out, though... and so we shall see.
More later...
Love to you,
Carolyn
-
when I'm invalidated sometimes my being will be like an energy ball and then it just diffuses into air - the only way I can find myself again is to get alone and journal and color pictures and listen and validate myself, breath deeply, exercise - it's better, years ago once that happened I couldn't connect again until someone outside of myself validated me
for me there is a tension within me when I don't feel seen, heard or understood and then when I am it's like the ball relaxes and grows bigger - I've worked hard not to be codependent that way, but still that's my energetic reality
This resonates with me, too, Besee... thank you for your expression of what's been a reality in my life, as well.
I just felt that sensation again recently, in living color, and I was shocked to sense that depth of deflation when something which was big news to me got such a bland, "cut and dried" reception from someone close to me. It was as nothing to them, just a matter of fact, and I instantly felt myself disappearing. Recovery from that sensation comes much more quickly now, and yet the disappointment and sense of disappearing, however briefly, is still disconcerting.
Carolyn - I've wondered about voicelessness and different personality types - is my not feeling understood cause my M was different (cognitive) and actually just didn't "get" the feeler me, (I didn't see her as trying though) because some folks on the board I will try to understand and use my imagination to my best, but I never really have a felt sense for who they are and perhaps its because I haven't experienced what they are going through or maybe it's just personality differences
or it's partial - I might relate to someone basically, but not get what they are going through on any real level - does that make me an N or just someone who hasn't had that experienced
I don't have the hole in my stomach that some people talk about, I try to imagine, but I don't really know - I have plenty of other stuff, but not that one, I don't have the longing for my M (she's dead) perhaps I never experience any real connection in the beginning so then there isn't the loss cause their wasn't anything there at first - well now I'm going to contradict myself, I felt like an orphan when she died, (my dad died first I didn't feel like a orphan when he died)
oh well, blessings, besee
I recently said to my husband, "I don't have a mother." He replied, "Yes, you do..." And at that moment, I knew for certain that in my heart, I've felt motherless for as close to forever as I can express. And she's not "that bad"... so I wonder how N'ish that is of me, Besee, to not have that hole in my heart for her.
As to the rest... I know what you mean. I often question why I don't seem to relate to certain folks with the same depth of understanding/feeling as others... and I'm pretty sure it is just due to personality differences. And also... (and I think it's a prideful thing)...
the more convinced I may be that my particular reaction to an experience is the - ahem - *normal* one, the less I am apt to relate.
That's the N'ish aspect of it all, I'd say... but it can be nipped in the bud, with diligence and effort!!
(((((((Besee))))))) thank you for bringing me to look more deeply into these areas and think.
Love,
Carolyn
-
Carolyn,
this may be on the wrong thread, but I have the urge to put it here somehow it seems like it relates even if indirectly
other reasons for voicelessness besides NPD
I was drilled if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all and
not to judge which resulted in me not developing basic discernment
and not judging meant not forming opinions and part of voice is having opinions
and being taught you can't change others which resulted in me not even speaking up when I felt wronged because I was taught the other wouldn't listen and it would be a waste of time
being so empathetic to others and so understanding of others that I didn't develop let alone tune into my voice
having emotions squashed so that the voice that comes from emotions didn't develop
having strict rules of how one communicates so there is no outlet for one's individual truth
I really like what Dr. G says about his purpose is not to "fix" others but to help them "find" who they are
besee
Besee,
Every bit of the above, yes... exactly!! Special emphasis for me on "being taught you can't change others which resulted in me not even speaking up when I felt wronged because I was taught the other wouldn't listen and it would be a waste of time"...
My mother lives by this in a twisted way, which I see has effectively strangled any chance for intimacy within her relationships. The twist is - when people fail to measure up to her standard (and they always do!) she X's them off her list. I could not live by that standard, and so I gave it my own twist - not talking about problems because it wouldn't make any difference (the lie), but accepting all manner of substandard behavior because I knew that I couldn't be perfect, so (unlike her) I wouldn't X people out of my life just because they weren't ideal.
Oh boy, were they ever so very far from ideal :?
All of that rolls right into this part which you wrote: "being so empathetic to others and so understanding of others that I didn't develop let alone tune into my voice"
And this: I really like what Dr. G says about his purpose is not to "fix" others but to help them "find" who they are
Me, too!!
The most my mother has ever communicated with me has always been from the theme of "fixing" me... drilling me with questions, setting my dad up to repair stuff around my house which she has deemed substandard, etc, etc, etc, in every realm of my life.
Thank you so much Besee for pulling some more of this together for me.
Love,
Carolyn
P.S. to Amber... I am thinking that you will likely not be back on till tomorrow and so I've not addressed your post yet... plus I know there's been so much added here and you were still processing alot of it...
anyhow, I think you're like me in that way... take it as it comes and there's no need to rush.
Yesterday I got a long email from one daughter along with a snail-mail letter (10 pages!!) from same daughter...
well, I replied to the email first and saved even reading her hand written letter till the end of the night and began my own hand written reply today. Savoring it, you know? Hugs!
-
Ah bless (((((( Carolyn ))))))
enjoy that lovely long letter from your dear daughter.
love, leah
Thank you, dear (((((((Leah))))))))) :) :) She will be 21 soon... and a momma herself shortly thereafter... to a little girl of her own! And.... she loves me!! :) :)
Bless you, too, dear Sister,
Carolyn
-
I wonder how N'ish that is of me, Besee, to not have that hole in my heart for her.
Carolyn,
I don't think it's Nish at all. I don't think having a punctured heart, chronic pain, makes one good...
You loved your mother, you probably still do.
I don't know if it's the same...but I feel absolutely NO longing any longer for mother-love. From my mother, or from anyone.
I do long for love at times. But it's more, just sometimes I need a "dose of love."
And I'm surrounded with love sources. Even here.
For me the change has been not having a specific target for that need. (I do miss having a man sometimes.)
Husbands didn't work. Neither mother. Definitely not big brother. Sometimes not child.
I'm left to look at the world more generally. And I see a lot of love around me.
love,
Hops
-
Thank you, dear Leah... I wish they weren't so many miles distant, but we know how mysterious and wonderful are the ways of our Lord! :) There is talk of them moving southward, so we shall see...
Dear Besee, my youngest and only son just turned 12 years... and he is still my sweetheart, full of hugs and special talks at home (and a slightly gruffer "hey, Mom" while at school... lol). This boy is... a most special lesson to me, from conception.
I did not want another child then. I was 35 and it was a most awful, inopportune time in my family... with me separating from my husband almost immediately after his birth. In all honesty, I have faced within myself and confessed only to my Lord and one other, that there was a time early on, while carrying this baby, that I wished he would not be born. God protected him... this I know... from my own selfishness... and although I have received His forgiveness, I can and will never forget that of which I am capable, apart from His grace.
Love,
Carolyn
-
Amber,
I'll be watching for your next pop...
me, I'm doing more of a slow crawl over here, but I can feel the processing, even in low gear.
I know that this is helping, just sometimes it doesn't feel so great.
I need to ponder on what you've said here about anger and resentment, expressed in a way I've never before heard.
And this:
"I'm not sure what the experts say about identity at that age, but from what I remember my feelings WERE me.
Effectively: I was not permitted."
Exactly. My circumstances were tame - no major traumatic incidents - yet that was the bottom line as I recall. I was not permitted... to be.
I don't know what must transpire in order to allow for an interruption of that closed system you describe, but I definitely can relate to having felt that way... as though there were this continuous loop of emotional activity within me, totally outside of my own control and not subject to my conscious will. Very strange. Makes me think of having the hiccups and needing... what, a scare? to snap out of it.
What your T said about not forcing your quit makes good sense to me. If your ornery as I am, you absolutely must be ready to stop and thoroughly committed to it.
I'm hung up on so many aspects of this thread that I think going back to the beginning and re-reading sounds great.
Thanks for keeping the ball rolling here, Amber. I think there's so very much potential here, for learning and growth... I'm just really struggling to maintain focus. Lots of loose threads... don't want to tug on the wrong one and unravel the bit of work that's already shaping up.
Love,
Carolyn
-
Hi Carolyn,
I just reread this thread and am worried that I said something hurtful.
Then I realized I wouldn't know w/o asking, so let me say, I hope not, dear woman.
THEN I had a shocking thought about myself.
It's not just that I don't long for a mother's love any more, I think the truth is that except in a very detached universal way, I don't love my mother any more. At least not in the way that you love someone you actually interact with.
I interact compassionately. But it's like my shell takes care of her shell.
I am a little shocked to realize how much I have removed myself, internally. And maybe a little worried.
love,
Hops
-
(((((((Hops))))))) I almost typed to you a few minutes ago here, but didn't know how to express...
but I'll try...
I didn't believe that you have no longing for a mother's love... and of course I know that speaks more of where my head and heart are, than yours.
And also... you said that I loved my mother and probably still do...
and I'm not so sure.
I needed her, I tried to get her to love me, at least for awhile, I feared her, but love? Not as I know it now.
I had all of the above typed up in lengthier form when I posted to Amber, but the extra words didn't help it to make any more sense, so I deleted it.
Umm... I think we're on the same wavelength... and there's alot more to it.
Thank you, dear Hops.
Love to you,
Carolyn
P.S. on edit...
Hops, I believe that you give to others that which you long to receive for yourself. I believe that's what I do, too.
That's why I doubted what you said about not desiring a mother's love, because what I feel from you is just exactly that sort of love, as I imagine it should be and as I offer to my own children.
I've read enough stuff on this board tonight to see that you are being put through a wringer and now I'm sorry I didn't just say,
"oh no, of course you didn't hurt me, Hops" and leave it at that... it woulda been the truth.
Please remember though... you don't have to jump through any hoops for me, so if you'd rather let this lie for now, or for good, that's fine.
If I'd been receiving just a portion of what I see you getting here, I'd be exhausted.
I love you, Hops.
Carolyn
-
Amber,
Is there any way you can report the rape?
Without dragging yourself through someone you don't want to go through?
Just get it on record somewhere?
Damn him.
love to you,
Hops
-
You are very clear, Amber.
You know exactly where your healing lies.
Bravo,
Hops
-
Certain Hope
yet the disappointment and sense of disappearing, however briefly, is still disconcerting.
((((((Carolyn) I relate, just recently over something so minor I did that - and it is so quick, I was wondering if there is a space and what I can tune into between someone saying something I perceive as invalidating and my disappearing
there was a comment somewhere on the board about "navel gazing" - well since my "navel" disappears, I'm going to gaze and figure out why and if it something I can change and perhaps improve my life I'll sincerely try, before I just doormatingly accept
with love, besee
(((((((((((((Besee))))))))))))) That's it... yes!!!... me, too. There's nothing self-centered or self-involved about it, really... more like trying to pin the tail on the donkey, blindfolded, while trying to stand still on a slippery slope after being spun around 20 or so times...
Exactly how I feel at times... and so, I'll be right alongside you gazing away!!
Thank you so much, dear Besee for your posts here. For me, there's no space or time in that disconnect... it's just *poof* and I'm gone. Sometimes I don't realize it till I see the questioning look on the other person's face (if that person is aware enough to notice)... which makes me wonder - what do you suppose our facial expression is when that happens? Blank? Sure feels like being instantly transported to another place and time.
I experienced it again today and wanted to run, but couldn't at the time. Within 5 minutes, I'd recovered... and not just enough recovery to smile and go on, but more than that, I was able to speak up and ask for what it was I'd feared was going to be denied me (some extra work coming up next week). It's unusual for me to be so direct in the face of what I'd sensed was some pretty heavy invalidation, but at least this time - after a few minutes - I was able to recognize that part of what I'd sensed may be more of a flashback than reality.
Maybe those times will become fewer and farther between... for both of us! I sure hope so. But for a bit there, I was a little child again, hanging my head and feeling very much all alone.
Love to you,
Carolyn
Dear Amber,
About this...
"And the words actually came out her mouth that she needs to teach them that being mad doesn't pay."
I wonder whether she really means, "letting someone else know that you're mad doesn't pay."
She probably doesn't recognize that resentment is a fruit of anger, not just an alternative to it.
This just struck me as strange, too... It's like she's not saying anger is wrong or immoral or unpleasant even... just that it doesn't achieve the desired results... doesn't pay.
This rang my bell, because my mother would rather shun you than to discuss her anger or attempt to resolve a conflict.
It's all about control! Resentment prolongs control as long as it causes suffering to the person against whom the grudge is held... now there's a bitter payoff :?
As always, I'm following along with you here, Amber and appreciating your sharing. Some things connect at a level where I have no words, but please know that you are making an enormous difference here... and I'll be rejoicing with you when (not if, but when) you resolve all of these things.
Love to you and hugs,
Carolyn
-
Wow, Lollie.
Extraordinary understanding from your dream.
Hops
-
I felt the need to thank you for this initial post. I think that the silence was in a way the worst. All of those messages that other kids get about how the world works and how to make their way in the world just didn't happen. It leaves you as a child with NOOO input that helps you to grow and develop or understand the world. I see myself explaining things already to my grand niece who is less than one and am astounded that a child could grow and develop without this input at one or five or ten. I was afraid of everything, because I knew I was on my own and that at five or ten I wasn't equipped to deal with the world.
Izzy-I was totally an inattentive child at school. Always off in my own little world, but I never fought. I don't think that I had enough sense of me and my own rights to have stood up for myself on anything.
Hugs to all!
-
I felt the need to thank you for this initial post. I think that the silence was in a way the worst. All of those messages that other kids get about how the world works and how to make their way in the world just didn't happen. It leaves you as a child with NOOO input that helps you to grow and develop or understand the world. I see myself explaining things already to my grand niece who is less than one and am astounded that a child could grow and develop without this input at one or five or ten. I was afraid of everything, because I knew I was on my own and that at five or ten I wasn't equipped to deal with the world.
Izzy-I was totally an inattentive child at school. Always off in my own little world, but I never fought. I don't think that I had enough sense of me and my own rights to have stood up for myself on anything.
Hugs to all!
Dear (((((((((((Emptied))))))))))... hugs to you. Me, too - exactly.
My own children have often looked at me quizzically, as I've explained in great detail about some relatively insignificant fact or process...
too much info, I know, at times... but I'll never forget how utterly starved I was for so long, for even the most basic knowledge of how the world works and how to make my way in it.
Still learning!
Carolyn
-
You know it is funny to realize how this problem has played out so differently in different peoples lives. I am sure there are lots of folks here that would have given anything to have their parent stop telling them what to do and how to do it. For me, it was an experience of just being a child and being out there on my own figuring out everything. I also had never actually been taken anyplace, participated in anything most kids do, even discussed school or a TV show-so when I got older and it was time to do some of those things, I was really, really scared, unsure how to go about things and felt as though I just didn't fit. At times I hid this behind a mask of "individual" (I didn't try to fit into any of the groups) but really it was because I felt that I just couldn't fit anywhere.
-
Hi Carolyn,
><(((((*>
so love the fish :)
Love,
Leah
Leah :) He's kinda cute, isn't he? ><(((((*>
Love to you,
Carolyn
-
I'm glad, Leah :D Spread that fishy around... he likes to travel! 8)
Love,
Carolyn
-
I am SO grateful that Lollie wrote about Medium Chill.
My brother returns Weds.
I will practice.
Steel doors.
Say only what can be printed in the paper.
Neutral, cordial, unreactive.
I think it'll be okay.
Been getting "concerned, helpful" emails from him today.
Oh pukiness.
Hops
-
((((((((Amber)))))))))) me, too... under different terms and conditions, and yet an annoyance, a nuisance, a bother, often a disappointment, and a distraction to others who were supposed to pay homage only to the queen (after all, is that not the purpose of their presence in this life?)
"Only if I could perfectly mimic my mom's reality, range of emotion, core beliefs... was I "perfect" enough to be acknowledged, accepted, loved."
"THIS is how I came to have such a rigid sense of "how I had to be"; this is the genesis of the inner critic; holding myself to a higher standard than normal people... always walking a tightrope."
Yes. Exactly.
Thank you, too, Amber... as always, you've brought so many loose thoughts together for me within my own mind... still boggles my mind... and yet, it's becoming just another part of the fabric of what was my life. It was not me, just a life I tried to live, for somebody else... for a whole string of somebody elses. It's so weird to think of myself as someone I used to know... or think I knew... a distant memory that became obsolete... and be glad of the certainty that all of that has been made new at last.
Carolyn
-
Amber,
You've been given the opportunity to travel full circle... and yet at a higher altitude this time, above the clouds.
That's how it feels to me, too.
I've relocated so far away from my roots that it's not likely I'll have such an encounter as what you've described... and yet, similar realizations arrive almost daily, as I recognize similarities between people-present and folks from my past.
So very often I think to myself - okay, so this is what I would have learned at age __ , if I'd had the resources and mirroring.
And even typing that last sentence here now, it strikes me - - - there's a word missing, and that word is "only".
The "(if) only" is missing from my very thoughts, as is the "should have"... because what was is gone... and that's okay.
The now is just as you said... a course of discovery, with the certainty of finding the treasured gems which will decorate the lives we choose to live. Ahh... that is freedom.
Looking forward to hearing more about the rest of your realizations, as you are able/choose to share.
Carolyn
-
hiya Hope,
The "(if) only" is missing from my very thoughts, as is the "should have"... because what was is gone... and that's okay.
Oh my! I can see that they are missing from me too. Why did I not see that? I think I am slower at recognizing my changes. There are probably more than I can say, as I do feel sooo good re the N 'assault'.
I am now moving into another area about which I must think long and hard and sensibly. There will be a thread when I am ready.
Love
Izzy
Hey, Izzy... that is awesome! Thanks for sharing this with me!
So many changes and developments I don't recognize myself, till I see myself say them here on this board. Don't seem to have the focus or patience for journaling these days... plus... well, just seems I've been stuck inside my own head plenty long enough, so...
this is it, for me. Also, there are just some folks here in whom I'm able to recognize some of my own illusive thoughts and feelings... and I'm afraid I'd go in reverse by trying to sift it all privately.
There was a "N sighting" today in our area, after many months of no visual contact (my son saw N driving down the road nearby), and when he told me of it, I realized... I don't care. Can't yet say that I feel so good about it, but I don't feel shaken either... so that's progress.
I'll be watching for your thread, whenever you're ready, Izzy...
Love,
Carolyn
-
I wanted to bump this topic up again, because I'm back connecting the dots between attachment theory, dissociation, and L/R brain neurobiology & neuropsychology.
There is a LOT of really, really good stuff in this thread and I'm going re-open this topic, I think, later on in a new thread. This is excellent background material and I'm still immensely grateful to Carolyn for the original topic.
-
Hi Amber,
I'm glad you did. It was good for me to read over it all again... one of the most amazing finds of all to me, back when I was searching.
Funny, I'm off work today and was coming by here to post something... and there was this. Thank you!
What I was gonna post is about an episode of Kitchen Nightmares, with Gordon Ramsey. The one I saw last night was at the Secret Garden restaurant, in Cali.
Manager's name is Michele... a Frenchman and, I believe, a pathological narcissist.
It just really struck me anew that there's such a huge difference between the ordinary self-involved, pompous, arrogant egomaniac...
and pathological NPD.
This guy is the latter, imo.
For instance, Gordon spiffs up the whole joint, as usual, and invites an important food critic for the night.
The place is packed and everybody seems pleased with the food... except the food critic. Her fish is way too salty.
Gee, I wonder how that happened.
I bet Michele slathered that filet with salt himself, just so he could "prove" to Gordon that Ramsey's new menu was no good.
Next scene, Michele is out on the floor, coaxing the critic to allow him another chance to prove himself... and blaming the trouble on the new menu.
What does he want to offer her? One of his decayed old menu items.
I mean, it was so obvious...
he would sabotage the entire operation rather than admit that he was wrong and Gordon Ramsey was right.
So very familiar.
Also, talked with my mother the other day.
She set off a frenzy of calls from my older daughters, claiming that the phone number she had for me is disconnected.
We went with new cell phones last April.
I coulda sworn I'd talked with her since then.
oops.
heh.
She hasn't changed.
But I do want to review my few posts from the past year and see whether I'd mentioned talking with her, cuz if I did, I'm sure to have posted about it.
Take care.
Carolyn
-
Hi Carolyn....::waving::
Haven't seem you posting in a while.
Lighter
-
"Both physical and emotional boundary development are harmed by distance violations, not just intrustion violations."
The Loss of Unconditional Security and Self-Worth
Internalized shame becomes the foundation of a person's trauma.
To live with shame is to feel alienated and defeated, never quite good enough to belong.
It is an isolating experience that makes us think we are completely alone and unique in our belief that we are unlovable.
Secretly, we feel like we are to blame. Any and all deficiency lies within ourselves.Gershen Kaufman, author of Shame: The Power of Caring, said - "shame is without parallel, a sickness of the soul."
Underneath layers of shame you will find that abandonment is at the foundation.
This abandonment is most often experienced through various forms of rejection, rejection that has been colored by parental words and actions, some subtle, some not so subtle.
It is useful to visualize a continuum, with acceptance at one end, rejection at the other end,
and many shades of emotional unavailability or parental indifference to your needs and wants somewhere between.
About Changing Course -
To change course, be it a minor shift or a major turn in your life,
does not mean giving up who you are -
it means letting go of who you are not.
It means letting go of your pain.
You are not your pain.
and lastly, my own words... quoted by Carolyn:
"Only if I could perfectly mimic my mom's reality, range of emotion, core beliefs... was I "perfect" enough to be acknowledged, accepted, loved."
Had the chance last Saturday to prove to myself, that I'm not one I should distrust, the one I should fear is crazy or "not all there"; I'm not the one with the difficult or secret "problem". I spoke with my mom... and when I didn't play into any of her drama, suspicions about my SIL and denied her validation of her paranoias and delusions....
she launched into a verbal/emotional attack on me. Spewed out disdain, resentment, anger at me - because I'm an independent, self-determined person - as if that were a bad thing.
She revealed herself in that attack and made it undeniably clear to me, that what I've been suffering from all along is a disorganized, disturbed attachment to my mother. That she so successfully projected her feelings into me, that I became locked in this inner conflict between being her (which I didn't much like) or being myself - for which I'd be "punished" emotionally with the same kind of verbal assault ------ or emotional abandonment.
This unstable attachment affected the balance of my L/R brain "center of gravity" - all my life. But I was functioning and developing up until the trauma I suffered at 12 - because I had other adults in my environment. Some time AFTER all the trauma - I "lost" these people... and my mother went to great lengths to isolate me for a time from all outside contact. This around my "shunned" experience. That isolation left me 100% vulnerable to her boundary/identity intrusions and control - and sent me into a crisis of attachment: where the person I was dependent on was frightening, impossible to please, demanded the impossible, and punished me excessively for being an individual - and not who she told me to be. The severe dissociation I experienced was separated time-wise from my trauma by some months and was due to this crisis. I was "together" enough immediately after the rape - to take steps to hide my brother & myself, provide for our comfort - until my mother came home. Far cry from dissociated.
Ultimately, I transferred that attachment to smoking. Smoking is a Lbrain enhancer and Rbrain inhibitor... and as such... kept my center of gravity in Lbrained experience - right where my mom insisted I be... no matter HOW uncomfortable I was being there. Lbrain is like a vinyl record album - experiences, rules, etc can be programmed into it quite easily and mine absorbed my mom's projections, her version of "me", and lots more.
But vinyl can be melted and new grooves cut (neuroplasticity)... new connections/working relationships between L & R brain can be forged. That's what I'm working on now. My return to my T for reassurance turned out to 2 sessions! In the first, she recommended I read Jill Bolte's Taylor's "Stroke of Insight" so we could discuss it. Before the next session, aftter reading it, I determined I wanted to ask if dissociation was a R-brain process - realized Google has answers - found a GREAT paper on type-D attachment & R-brain development....
realized that my Lbrain was spewing continued abuse that it learned from my mom at me.... and that all I had to do was "step to the right" as Jill recommends.... to turn that crap OFF.... once and for all.
More soon - I'm still finishing up my big project - but this has all settled enough for me to explain why this thread was so important to me.
-
That she so successfully projected her feelings into me, that I became locked in this inner conflict between being her (which I didn't much like) or being myself - for which I'd be "punished" emotionally with the same kind of verbal assault ------ or emotional abandonment.
This unstable attachment affected the balance of my L/R brain "center of gravity" - all my life. But I was functioning and developing up until the trauma I suffered at 12 - because I had other adults in my environment. Some time AFTER all the trauma - I "lost" these people... and my mother went to great lengths to isolate me for a time from all outside contact. This around my "shunned" experience. That isolation left me 100% vulnerable to her boundary/identity intrusions and control - and sent me into a crisis of attachment: where the person I was dependent on was frightening, impossible to please, demanded the impossible, and punished me excessively for being an individual - and not who she told me to be.
PR - this portion of your post applies completely and utterly to me, could have been written by me about me. It is so powerful to read what you have written.
Your words about shame is powerful as well. I feel strongly validated by your writing. I feel strengthened by it. There before me are the words describing my wound and my diversion from my purpose. I was sabotaged and made conjoined to my weak and wimpering mother out of fear of punishment for being myself and succeeding and flourishing.
Still searching for the key to unlock these manicles. Still pursuing neuroplasticity to reroute my brain patterns.
I miss your regular posts they feed me. Thanks - GS
-
There's more, GS...
I stole some time at work the other day to post, because everything started to come clear very quickly and because now I've figured out the tech problem I've been having - too many computers! :D I was logged in permanently on 3... Today, I'm taking the afternoon off... my comp time... for the extra hours I've worked in the last week.
It's as if I had all the puzzle pieces and I simply couldn't fit any of them together in a convincing way without 2 key pieces - Jill Taylor's book and explanations about L/R brain personality/selves and the fact that people with disturbed primal attachments (which made me remember Carolyn's GREAT thread) with their primary caregiver don't develop full the r-brain centers. The paper I found was: Attachment trauma and the developing right brain: Origins of pathological dissociation. Author is Allan N. Schore, UCLA School of Medicine. It's heavy on the neuroscience - but still readable.
To paraphrase the gist of this attachment issue:
If a mother doesn't respond to the cries of an infant... the infant's terror escalates... until it finally "shuts down" and withdraws from the unbearable aloneness.
If a mother responds inappropriately - with anger, frustration, impatience - the mother becomes a NEW threat... and in the neural pathways, there's built up over time the connection that mom is scary... mom is to be feared: disrupted and disturbed attachment, in other words. So r-brain doesn't have the experience of being cared for and soothed by an appropriately responding mom. It doesn't add that neural pathway connection to it's reference files.
OK: r-brain is responsible for feelings of well-being. Dr. Taylor's descriptions of her stroke and how comfortable she was in her r-brain experience - even though she was aware she was having a stroke - are a case in point. She LIKED the way she felt. And she realized that this was a place of healing, too. When she needed to, she slept or dozed - drifting in/out of that r-brain experience. Her stroke affected her L-brain functioning - the process-oriented, linear, how-to part of her brain.
A memory came to me; something that happened to me and is part of our FOO's scrapbook of memories. When I was 3-4, I was sleeping and dreaming. The ice cream truck came by... and my brother tried to wake me; Mom was going to buy ice cream. But I told him to go away and let me sleep - I was dreaming that Roy Rogers & Dale Evans were going to adopt me and I would be able to go live with them. My brother still razzes me about this... but in light of all this work I've done, I can only think WHY would a 3-4 yr old prefer a dream of living with another family to ice cream?? (This has been a conscious memory all my life... and it's validated by my brother's remembering the incident). The only reason I can think of is that I didn't feel safe, my needs weren't being met, and I was ignored. In reality, I was usually expected to keep an eye on my brother - and I have another memory/real event to back to back that up. So, I've realized slowly... that this problem of mine goes back way before the trauma I experienced. I suffered some sort of attachment injury with my mother - and was aware of it (albeit juvenilely) - even at 3-4. I KNOW both types of disturbed attachment, that I've described above.
Here's the real kick in the pants for me... when I was "little Amber" (before Twiggy)... I was allowed to drift off into whatever world I could self-soothe or self-calm in. With a scary, unpredicatable, intruding home environment, I learned to do this quite well. My mother really didn't care - and the fact that I expressed no needs - asked nothing of her - suited her to a T. That made me a "good girl", you see.
But later - when I was Twiggy - she wouldn't allow me that place of healing that I needed. My environment was still unpredictable - and during the traumatic time, downright dangerous - and by then, I was hypersensitive as all abused children are, if they're not permanently withdrawn. To recover from the rape - and all that was done to me after - I wanted to retreat to my self-soothing, self-calming r-brained self. But I wasn't allowed. I was punished for this. And the odd thing - the important thing - is that I wasn't immediately dissociated after the rape: I was still quite functional, rational, and acting on a legitimate fear of the rapist returning.
My mother disappeared after the rape. I spent time with my Aunt - and I was confused, injured, emotional, but STILL RATIONAL. I didn't know where my mother went or why. It was only after I returned to that house, with my mother, that I gradually slipped away...
mostly because she gaslighted me about what happened. Lied. Blatantly. Expected me not to remember. (yet she's told me even in the last few months what a great memory I have; yeah - it's a photographic memory.)
But my mother was getting increasingly crazy - scary crazy - and I think at that time, during the time I was shunned & forced to put Twiggy away - I suffered or re-experienced my original attachment injury.
By that time, I'd discovered that nicotine was a wonder drug: it enhanced Lbrain activity - which my mother wanted. But it also gave me an escape from her, long enough to access r-brained me - reducing the intensity of my anxiety, anger, and resistance. And my mother said: whatever works; it could be worse... tacitly giving permission to me to smoke - because my Lbrain had been completely "programmed" with the projections she'd been pushing on me.... and she REALLY wanted me L-brained, being the resident adult in the FOO, and to keep me away from the r-brained memories I had. Would've ruined her illusion of control over me, don't ya know?
------------- ---------------
So there it is. Finally, the WHY I smoke... what purpose it actually serves for me. And also: the way to quit smoking. I've trained myself - all my life - how to access r-brain self: to make art, to meditate, to self-soothe - all ways to experience well-being. My last "problem" is convincing L-brain, that nothing bad will happen if it's no longer hyper-anything; the little dictator; the "monkey" that zen buddhists train to run up & down the pole. It doesn't get killed off - only given the work that it is intended to do... NOT the work of R-brain.
My tai chi teacher says it takes 5000 repetitions before something new, is completely integrated or seems "normal". That's about 9 months of not smoking (ironic??)... and you GET there by not smoking "this one". By not letting L-brain "remember" to smoke. By doing something else, instead. Like "stepping to the right" long enough to forget about the cigarette.
<< side note: Twiggy is helping. I've gone to buy smokes & walked out without them. I've tried to light them - but missed. I've broken them, flicking ashes out the jeep window. And yesterday: (caveat: I'm JUST FINE) I lit one while sending Mike off to work and had butane all over my gloves & robe & scarf... I caught myself on fire. I have a r-brained memory of playing with the valve on the lighter... and was for a split-second amazed at the fire on my hands... before my instinct (twiggy?) dropped me to the ground while Mike patted out the flames. Just the butane burned; my gloves weren't even singed and I never felt any heat. I WANT TO QUIT. My L-brain just doesn't know it yet - after I threw my clothes in the washer and washed my face & hands, I found matches & smoked that damn cigarette. SIGH >>
My 2 sessions with my T were the frosting on the cake. When I said L-brain seemed terrified that I would dissociate without nicotine and that this would be bad - she called it for what it was: a rationalization. Says she has zero-tolerance for rationalizations. Banishes them immediately. She said: if you feel you want to smoke: smoke. If don't: don't. And of course, feeling - that level of integrated feeling - is r-brained. As my hubby says: how bad do you want it?
Smoking itself is the problem these days. It's only reinforcing the OLD neural pathway connections... making me vulnerable to over-stimulation in my environment, weak boundaries, unclear thinking. It IS - not a symbol for - it IS a continuation of the abuse I suffered... and it's coming from my own self - the Lbrain programming. My life will soon change and I'm determined, strongly, that smoking doesn't go with me into that new phase of my life. I DON'T WANT IT anymore. Whatever else happens - fuzzy thinking, time distortion, r-brained experience - it's worth it if I can stop the abuse engraved in my brain (for survival's sake) that's playing over & over like a record with a skip in it.
As Hops said: a hug is a boundary... smoke is a boundary. These words sent me searching for the 2 pieces that - without which - I couldn't complete the picture. (Hops: I'll need your address - I WANT to send you something! :D )
Taking that first step off the tall, tall cliff now... and if I flap my arms enough, I KNOW I'm gonna fly. Ain't no other option... not for me.
-
I found something that I am very excited about and thought you might be able to use it PR. I posted it here b/c of your reference to neuro-science. It entails visualizing one part of the brain functioning in a specific way to circumvent unwanted triggers. I suspect you could apply it to your L-brain and R-brain work.
http://www.anxiety-depression-alternatives.com/articles/anxiety_amygdala.htm
Maybe you can determine the part of the brain triggered that draws you to smoke and then visualize that brain function re-routed.
-
Exactly, GS...
that's what Dr. Taylor calls a "Step to the Right". It's a moment or more of intentionally invoking r-brained experience. And it works...
I want - as soon as time permits - to start a new thread about this and connect it back to other things that have been discussed here, like mothering oneself, healing the inner child, self-sabotage, etc.
-
I can't wait to read your thoughts on your new thread.
I want to read more of Taylor's work as well. I am beginning to get it.