Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: axa on January 17, 2008, 12:40:06 PM
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How does one learn discipline? This is something most adults learn as kids from their parents modelling. In some ways it seems like a stupid question but trust me it is real. It also seems linked to commitment and delayed gratification. I am very poor at delayed gratification. I want it all NOW. If I do not take what is availalbe now I do not trust it will be there later. This behaviour is played out in relationship with Ns. They offer EVERYTHING initally, it is as if at last the dream has come true. By measuring and pacing the relationship so much will be revealed instead of jumping headlong into a "false intimacy". It is about the baby steps, right back there again.
axa
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Hi,
Just popping in here.
Been reading about the trouble you're having writing your paper and I'm sorry to hear it.
Here's how I deal with delayed gratification: Think about the anxiety you have because you are delaying, procrastinating about finishing your paper. Then realize that you can eliminate that anxiety if you write and finish the paper. So, wrintin and finishing the paper will eliminate the anxiety. So, just outline and start to write.
Another thing that may be dogging you is perfectionism. I've found I procrastinate because I want the end product to be perfect. So, try to let go of perfectionism and just do the act (which is writing the paper) and finish it. It does not have to be perfect. You do not have to be perfect.
Reminds me of cleaning my house or doing laundry: I feel anxious (which causes me to feel immobilized) when I think about cleaning the dirty kitchen or doing laundry. So, I just start cleaning or doing the wash and in 2-4 hours, it's all done and then I feel good, feel I accomplished a goal.
hope that helps.
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Hi axa
I learned discipline at the end of Dad's razor strap. I've been disciplined all my life, and still am out of habit, "to not have to fear and endure the strap" whatever that punishment might be in later years. Discipline has done well by me in many ways, work, puncuality, lack of procrastination, spending, saving, driving, patience, cleaning, taking out garbage----
It is not a stupid question. I can see how being undisciplined could wreak havoc in a life.
Good Luck---and I thought we were more alike????
Izzy
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Miss Izzy Poppins, :) (my sense of humor only)
My discipline comes from my parents also, and, in addition, the very strict school attended.
However, procrastination, from a feeling of lethargy, and/or fatigue, is my issue, sometimes.
Love, Leah
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Leah: Miss Izzy Poppins, :lol: (my sense of humor only)
You're a riot, Alice
Did you not read the thread where I mentioned I cannot carry an umbrella?... as both hands are already busy :lol: :lol: :lol:
Love
Izzy
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Leah: Miss Izzy Poppins, :lol: (my sense of humor only)
You're a riot, Alice
Did you not read the thread where I mentioned I cannot carry an umbrella?... as both hands are already busy :lol: :lol: :lol:
Love
Izzy
Well now, Miss Izzy Poppins,
Please, do not be coy, as we know that your umbrella has a birdy at the top, which can fly! Aside from which, after all, you are Miss Izzy Poppins. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh, I don't take sugar thank you.
Love, Leah
PS >> Guess who sat and watched the movie on TV at Christmas ? :)
PPS ....... any news on when you are likely to receive your Friedman DVD Izzy ???
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Yes, indeed. Discipline with justice, discipline without repression. Discipline is good, repression is not.
My parents were not overly strict, but there was discipline, and proper rules imposed. I was fortunate to have a lucky, happy childhood, and good parents. I miss them so terribly even still.
Another matter entirely was the convent boarding school where I was educated. Unreasonable rules, crazy ideas, repression (they liked to call it discipline). Talk about voicelessness!!!
I was there for five years, 13 to 17. I spent another five years probably after getting out of there undoing any influence which might have stuck to me. Fortunately for me, I had a pretty strong character, and was not easily trodden upon, but I am sure there were pupils at that school whose lives were adversely affected....
Best to all
Hermes
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Hey Leah,
No word on DVD yet. I ordered 4 and 2 were on back order. All will come at once, and will be a surprise.
We have a nice lady mail deliverer and I am never dressed when the mail comes--(nightgown and sweater)--so she brings parcels right to my apt. door.
I was going down the street one day and saw her talking with a guy, next door, so said :Hello: and she Helloed back then I said
"This must be the first time you've seen me with clothes on!!"---the guy really gave us a look as I went on as she agrreed and went on talking.
Love
Izzy
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Ann,
Tomorrow I am packing my procrastination in my pocket and WRITING.............. Thank you. I do just need to do it.
Appreciate your post
axa
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Axa, I assume you mean mental discipline, rather than the physical sort. You could try taking a martial arts class, which teaches discipline. Or try meditation or Yoga, anything that teaches you how to focus your mind.
Sorry, these aren't short term things, but in the long run they do help.
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Hey Leah,
No word on DVD yet. I ordered 4 and 2 were on back order. All will come at once, and will be a surprise.
We have a nice lady mail deliverer and I am never dressed when the mail comes--(nightgown and sweater)--so she brings parcels right to my apt. door.
I was going down the street one day and saw her talking with a guy, next door, so said :Hello: and she Helloed back then I said
"This must be the first time you've seen me with clothes on!!"---the guy really gave us a look as I went on as she agrreed and went on talking.
Love
Izzy
Oh, Izzy :lol:
That's a classic! I am visualizing that man's facial expression!!
On the odd occasion, my postie has had a door open with just a hand appearing, as I am behind the door in my jammies.
He has said "are you not decent then?"
Which cracks me up :lol: :lol: :lol:
Brilliant ~ you have 4 DVD's to look forward to ~ but, you will have square eyes ..... I'm telling ya for your own good! :)
Love, Leah
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How does one learn discipline? This is something most adults learn as kids from their parents modelling. In some ways it seems like a stupid question but trust me it is real. It also seems linked to commitment and delayed gratification. I am very poor at delayed gratification. I want it all NOW. If I do not take what is availalbe now I do not trust it will be there later. This behaviour is played out in relationship with Ns. They offer EVERYTHING initally, it is as if at last the dream has come true. By measuring and pacing the relationship so much will be revealed instead of jumping headlong into a "false intimacy". It is about the baby steps, right back there again.
axa
Dear Axa,
This is a tough area for me, too. Twelve years of parochial education pounded plenty of discipline into my reflexes... and I can still call upon some of that, when necessary. Trouble is, I tend to resist finding it necessary... :|
As long as I'm on the move... at work, for instance, with structure and deadlines, I'm fine; but left to my own resources, I find it very difficult to battle procrastination. Years of trying to eradicate perfectionism and obsessivce compulsions in my own habit has left me with an innacurate measuring stick as far as what's "enough"... I guess because for so many years, the answer was - nothing. Nothing was ever, ever enough.
Best wishes on your writing project... that's one of the areas where I hit a wall - again, because it's a solitary activity.
If I find any helpful info in my research, will sure pass it on here!
Love,
Carolyn
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Tay,
I meditate and have taken up yoga and hope this will help me be more focused. I know I have improved a lot and part of this is a pattern for me. When I stop my self care I also drop discipline. They seem to go hand in hand for me. Full of resolve for tomorrow. Thank you for your responses.
Carolyn,
Interesting, I have no problem with discipline when it involves others................well, here I go again, they must be more important than me!!! All the help I have got here has just spurred me on to get back on track. THANKS SO MUCH
axa
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axa... when I first practiced discipline.... I was living on my own and had nothing around me to take my focus off of myself.
I had terrible anxiety about being on my own and it seemed natural to buckle down, make a plan and take control of everything I could reasonably control.
I realize.... that's been a position of strength for me..... and a place I've been blindsided from twice.
Maybe it's hubris..... pride that I can handle anthing?
When I'm functioning at my best, putting self care first....... those are the times I've been most vulnerable.
And I knew better.
I really knew better the second time.
Any way..... I wasn't taught discipline...... I turned to it bc the pain of not having discipline was too rough on me.
Baby steps and common sense.
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Carolyn,
Interesting, I have no problem with discipline when it involves others................well, here I go again, they must be more important than me!!! All the help I have got here has just spurred me on to get back on track. THANKS SO MUCH
axa
Yikes... I think you've said a mouthful there, Axa.
It feels very unnatural to me, but I have finally disciplined myself at least about finishing up my dental care. Used to be that I placed myself at the end of the line within my own family, where matters like that were concerned. Usually, that meant that it was never my turn... :? This time, I've rearranged priorities a bit and arranged to complete my own needed treatments in lieu of some other family luxuries! That was a tough one... because it was always so important to me to not be like my mother, who'd buy herself the most top-notch, highest priced medical care/eyeglasses/whatever while shuffling my dad off to 3rd rate care in all regards, from lack of dentist visits to horribly scratched eyeglasses to 3'rd rate medical... it was awful. And I know that it was up to him to put his foot down and not tolerate it... but I guess he's always felt like it was the humble thing to do :? just to sit back and take it.
Carolyn
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Hi Axa,
I think very intentionally giving yourself permission to fail, to be dull or confusing, is very helpful.
The blank page intimidation returns to oh, this is a piece of paper. I'll type something. Then you just go blah-blah with your fingers on a keyboard...
Then your bright mind will scrub and polish as you work back and forth as you go.
The thing that always always amazed me after I procrastinated on deadlines to the point of exhaustion and being up against the wall, is that once I got it underway, I INVARIABLY realized I was enjoying it.
And then I'd be all P-O'd at myself: Drat self, why didn't you start earlier, because you really do enjoy thinking and sorting out ideas and here you are all caffeined up and 2 hours' sleep and feeling like elephant dung and you could have been having FUN with it. Imagine how it would've felt if you started ahead of time!
Not saying that really worked to cure me of starting-phobia overnight, but the message did make sense to the rational part of me.
hugs
Hops
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Hops,
Thank you for your sensible advice.............well, got the first draft finished and started editing and rewriting and you know something, it aint bad. It is this bloody struggle of trying to be perfect and feeling useless........maybe these parts of me are moving a little closer together. The big question is Hops WHERE OH WHERE IS THE MIDDLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lots and lots of hugs and keep that brother at a distance
xxxxxxxxxx
axa
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it aint bad
I'll bet it ain't bad, you smart thing! :D
I'll post about my brother...ugh.
love to you and your GOOD-ENOUGH paper too.
Hops
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Axa, thank you for this thread. I have always delayed gratification. In fact, I never have gratification. My brother and sister either. My mother made us that way. We cant.
I only work and it is very difficult to enjoy anything. Just work and sleep. Even in dance class, I am suffering. I am suffering why such and such dont want to dance with me, suffering why the teacher gives so much care to her favorite students, suffering how short I am, suffering that I do not do it as well as I would like, I have an endeless list. I could not even enjoy sex, never ever, and no man wants to be with me. cant enjoy. Period.
I have no problems with delaying gratification, I have problems gratifying my slef.
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Lup,
I learned to enjoy myself but it was difficult. Often I would engage in activities which were false and stupid and think that was enjoyment but age and a little wisdom changed that. I find staying in the present allows me take pleasure out of so many ordinary things. I keep forgetting this and have to practise, practise, practise. I find yoga very helpful for staying present to my body... nothing like pain to bring you into the present moment.
Is it not possible to lose yourself in the music sometimes when you dance? And as for sex.........whats that? LOL
xxxxxx
axa
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"And as for sex.........whats that? LOL"
LOLLLLLL LMAO, LOLOLOL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Are you insinuating that you belong to my club? LOL
not funny but anecdotic.
Thank you for the answer. I guess I have to work on that too. On the enjoying, on the present, on everything.
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Dear Axa:
Hope I did not offend you with my sense of humor. if you want I will erase it.
Lupita
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Lup,
LOL :o :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
xxxx
axa
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Hi Axa,
I think very intentionally giving yourself permission to fail, to be dull or confusing, is very helpful.
The blank page intimidation returns to oh, this is a piece of paper. I'll type something. Then you just go blah-blah with your fingers on a keyboard...
Then your bright mind will scrub and polish as you work back and forth as you go.
The thing that always always amazed me after I procrastinated on deadlines to the point of exhaustion and being up against the wall, is that once I got it underway, I INVARIABLY realized I was enjoying it.
And then I'd be all P-O'd at myself: Drat self, why didn't you start earlier, because you really do enjoy thinking and sorting out ideas and here you are all caffeined up and 2 hours' sleep and feeling like elephant dung and you could have been having FUN with it. Imagine how it would've felt if you started ahead of time!
Not saying that really worked to cure me of starting-phobia overnight, but the message did make sense to the rational part of me.
hugs
Hops
Oh, Hops,
I am receiving your sound words of advice.
Especially ~ " .... very intentionally giving yourself permission to fail, to be dull or confusing, is very helpful."
Love,
Leah
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Glad, Leah!
Permission to fail precedes permission to succeed.
xxoo
Hops
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Hops,
I often feel stuck between the two places, failure and success, afraid of the former and terrified of the latter! I guess being in the middle struggling keeps me "busy" and allows me play out my old patterns - lots of procrastination. Interestingly, when I have failed at something I am always so glad that I tried but I do forget this.
thoughts and hugs,
axa
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It's a huge struggle for me too.
So I am very grateful this thread is here today.
My brother is trying to take over my mother's finances because I let some things lapse and it is a direct result of my being undisciplined (and tired and overwhelmed). So I must do these things TODAY to get it back under my own control.
Hops
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((((( Hops )))))
You can do it ~ and it will come right, for you.
Thoughts of you,
Love, Leah
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Amber,
Thank you so much for your post. I have experience around "I want to " in relation to alcohol. Or should I say I do not want to.........and it has been a piece of cake. It comes from a voice larger than my "head" voice and there is no deprevation in it. I want to do a good paper so much so I have finished my second draft and it is shaping up. I see this in this draft that by practising it has improved and want to do another practise session with it tommorow......... I don't see it as semantics, or should I say it doesn't feel like semantics........it feels good.
I meditate regularily and this of couse is called my practise.............. big smile and hug to you,
xxx
axa
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:D Amber :D Axa Next time I begin feeling like a slouch about something, I will remember this exchange and simply fe]]determine to apply more Practice in that area! What a wonderful difference in perspective that offers!! Thanks :D
With love,
Carolyn
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Hello to all:
I am self-employed, and as such to me self-discipline is all important. Well, I suppose I have always been a disciplined sort of individual. I have to work to put food on the table, keep my house and so on. That may well be the external "spur", so to speak. No work, no money. Simple. I might not want to work, and maybe I would like to be out and about doing nothing, but, that is how it is.
If I were employed by someone else, in the usual 9 to 5 situation, then the matter would be out of my hands.
As it is, the self-discipline makes me sit down and get on with it.
Also it is amazing how being left with nothing, no home and all the rest of it, concentrates the mind, and discourages too much self-analysis LOL.
Best to all
Hermes
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Hi Hermes,
What were the circumstances in which you were left with nothing?
Can you share generally what kind of work you do?
Forgive me if you've already told your story and I missed it...just
trying to catch up and this thread is 6 pages back and I never will!
Hops
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Hello Hopalong:
How are you?
I may have posted some time back about the circumstances, although I suppose words are unnecessary, because the mere fact of being married to and separated subsequently from an NPD is a receipe for being left with nothing, and explains everything. You are just lucky to get out of the swamp in one piece! NPDs are not great at making provision in any sense.
I do not think it is so important whether and how I was left with nothing, but the fact that one can get back a life and concentrate on what is important. So, self-discipline is important, when you have just yourself to depend on. I have to impose myself on myself. Nothing wrong with that.
My own opinion is that is is self-defeating to mull over the past, and past wrongs. But that is purely my opinion.
I have written about a slice of my life a short few moments ago on another thread, the (dare I say it) one about what people do or don't believe. Voicelessness. I would find it hard to express how I dislike not being allowed a voice, and being told what to believe. it is one thing likely to set me off LOL.
All the best Hops.
Hermes
P.S. Shall we just say, that, very loosely, I work in communication.