Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: lighter on January 17, 2008, 06:29:08 PM
-
think the lack of boundaries is lack of common sense?
Is it common sense to have proper boundaries in place?
I can't tell what percentage of the population has healthy boundaries and what doesn't in order to call it common sense: /
I do know that I look around at obviouse unhealthy patterns and wonder why they can't be changed.
My own patterns and those of others, around me.
Creatures of habit..... face pressed up against the glass and too close to see what's going on clearly?
Dancing with old devils and unable to break the spell and see what's in front of us?
Comfortable with repeating unhealthy patterns and discussing the results over and over and over again, like the results have nothing to do with our choices?
Driven by pain to repeat until things magically change on their own, bc that makes sense?
Always someone else's fault.... nothing to be done about our fates but see where it takes us?
I was struck this afternoon by how some folks might perceive a lack of boundaries as a lack of common sense, and it drove me to distraction thinking about the difference between common sense and repeating old mistakes. What's the difference?
::contemplating what life must look like when viewed by someone who was never forced validate someone's distorted reality::
-
Lighter,
Good to hear from you. I think for people who grew up in "good enough" families don't even think in terms of boundaries...........they just have them. Maybe it is like saying "its stupid to walk across a busy highway" of course it is, you could get seriously hurt or killed............. but I have stepped onto the highway of Narcissism when I knew "things were not right" so I ignored my gut (common sense) and trusted the (external) N.
xxxxxxxxx
axa
-
What's odd to me is how even people who grew up in "good enough" families, to use axa'a term can still allow their boundaries to be violated by one person while enforcing them against others.
How do we get manipulated into allowing one person to do things to us over and over that we would never allow anyone else to do to us even once?
mud
-
We probably don't want to face some truth in the situation(IMO) , Mud. Ami
-
Steven Hassan ("Releasing the Bonds - Empowering People To Think for Themselves") and others have pointed out
that one of the hallmarks of a cult is that it breaks down personal boundaries, thus making the cult member easier to control and manipulate.
Can happen to anyone.
Leah
-
That's exactly why i have been working on How to Guard yourself (heart, soul, life, etc)
Don't wanna be back in that place again!!
Leah
-
That is a good point about a cult ,Leah!. Having an N M(or F) is close to being in a cult(lol). Ami
-
Lighter:
I was struck this afternoon by how some folks might perceive a lack of boundaries as a lack of common sense, and it drove me to distraction thinking about the difference between common sense and repeating old mistakes. What's the difference?
Lighter,
Commonsense plays a huge part, I think, what's the use of boundaries, yet not using an ounce of commonsense,
especially, after one is enlightened and equipped with the necessary tools for living.
Makes sense to me, thinking about it some.
that same old well worn cliche ...... Wisdom and Discernment
springs to mind.
Leah
-
That is a good point about a cult ,Leah!. Having an N M(or F) is close enough for government work(lol). Ami
Too right!! Ami
We should place that at the top of our CV :)
Love, Leah
-
I can see my own mistakes.... having ignored red flags, etc.
I can see other people's mistakes too.... repeating mistakes and not seeing other possibilities, etc.
It's gotta be easier to see a red flag when we're not emotionally being held hostage or dependant on the person stepping on our boundaries.
I probably think people with strong enough boundaries to withstand assault..... are pretty selfish people to begin with..... and that's not good.
Changing our view of people who prioritize their boundaries may be part of the equation.
Mud..... nobody expects a family member to treat us like prey..... it's a hard pill to swallow. Esp when their words are saying one thing.... and their actions another.
It just takes a while to reconcile it beyond doubt: /
The scales get tipped.... and then we understand. But not before.
On the common sense and not crossing a busy highway, axa...... I guess it depends on what's been promised to us.... when we reach the other side.
Sometimes we're focused on the beloved promise.... and not the highway crossing..... and that's a problem. Not wary enough about our own safety.
-
Are you in control of your life? Do people take advantage of you at work and at home? Do you have trouble saying no?
Cloud and Townsend - Laws of Boundaries.” An extract ....
“Receiving Other People’s Personal Boundaries.” Some of us out there that are control freaks that do not like to hear other people say NO to us. If this is a struggle for you, you may use intimidation or guilt to get the other person behaving like you want them to.
Another person that struggles with hearing someone else tell them no is a person with low self esteem. You may feel like his NO is a direct reflection of how he feels about you. In this case we get out of the practice of asking for what we need because we are fearful of the other person’s response. You may invite a friend out to dinner, they say NO, and now you feel like they must be mad at you for something you have done.
“Proactive vs. Reactive Boundaries.” Ask yourself: are you always reacting to people or are you being proactive and letting people know where you stand and that you mean it?
I know you can picture the reactionary people in your life. Usually they are pretty stressed out. They react in anger and frustration a lot of the time. They always are in a hurry and don’t slow down even when they have time.
Those who have good proactive personal boundaries are confident with themselves. They realize that by saying NO to something it does not mean they will lose love or feel left out.
Did you know that people who say NO to things are happier than people who never say no?
Sometimes our NO can be the biggest weapon to give our proactive personal boundaries back.
A common myth of a person fighting the boundary issue is they feel like they are being “selfish.”
If you are 30, 40, or even 50 years old and you have never said NO to anyone or anything, your first feeling will probably be guilt!
Immediately shame messages run through your head about how you are hurting the other person by not helping them.
Cloud and Townsend point out that there is a difference between being selfish and being self-centered.
Being selfish is a natural part of growing up. Believe it or not, it is healthy for your infant/toddler to demand what they want from you. If they can learn how to ask for what they want without being shamed when they do it, they will have a better chance of expressing themselves in confident ways when they become teenagers and adults.
In order for us to take care of other people around us we have to be able to take care of ourselves. If you cannot take care of yourself, you are probably not doing all you could to take care of the people around you. This means a little bit of selfishness can go a long way!
Cloud, Dr. Henry, Townsend, Dr. John. Boundaries. Zondervan. 1992, Grand Rapids, MI
-
Dear Leah,
I was talking to my Aunt ,yesterday. I could see that she has boundaries as a very natural part of her. For abused people, it is so hard, though. I noticed that ,yesterday. To me, boundaries are such a "hard" issue. For her, they are natural---bleh. Love Ami
-
Steven Hassan ("Releasing the Bonds - Empowering People To Think for Themselves") and others have pointed out
that one of the hallmarks of a cult is that it breaks down personal boundaries, thus making the cult member easier to control and manipulate.
Can happen to anyone.
Leah
And maybe that's part of the equation, Leah.
N's... controllers.... test boundaries and don't hang around if the small transgressions are repelled. They move on. The people who allow the small transgression..... easily move on to larger transgressions.
I say it and mean it..... 'Don't make the first excuse for bad behavior."
Much easier said than done when we have an emotional investment: /
-
Dear Leah,
I was talking to my Aunt ,yesterday. I could see that she has boundaries as a very natural part of her. For abused people, it is so hard, though. I noticed that ,yesterday. To me, boundaries are such a "hard" issue. For her, they are natural---bleh. Love Ami
Dear Ami,
Understand what you mean. It is almost as though we feel as if we need to apologize for having boundaries.
What that guy there said about 'Shame' messages immediately run through ones head, because, we have never had boundaries before, rings true
Love, Leah
-
Steven Hassan ("Releasing the Bonds - Empowering People To Think for Themselves") and others have pointed out
that one of the hallmarks of a cult is that it breaks down personal boundaries , thus making the cult member easier to control and manipulate.
Can happen to anyone.
Leah
And maybe that's part of the equation, Leah.
N's... controllers.... test boundaries and don't hang around if the small transgressions are repelled. They move on. The people who allow the small transgression..... easily move on to larger transgressions.
I say it and mean it..... 'Don't make the first excuse for bad behavior."
Much easier said than done when we have an emotional investment: /
Yes, Lighter,
After reading and reading and thinking about it all etc etc., right now, I am fully convinced that that is it, in a nutshell.
breaks down personal boundaries is clearly their objective.
I say it and mean it..... 'Don't make the first excuse for bad behavior." That has to be our mandate ....... simply, has to be.
If I don't turn and walk away, then I, and only I, am to blame for the outcome.
Tis' my personal responsibility ........ with as you rightly point out ...... commonsense.
(wisdom and discernment)
Agree with you 100%
Leah
-
::Nodding::
"A little selfishness goes a long way...."
That reminds me of the saying..... "Adults who aren;t getting their needs met.... can't meet the needs of a child."
and...
"Taking care of ourselves is the most loving thing we can do for our loved ones."
We model self care and we ensure we're taken care of, which should be a priority.
As for asserting ourselves, with abusive FOO members and spouses..... it makes no sense that people would do such a self defeating thing. Eventually.... we're going to figure it out and things aren't going to stay the same.
Right?
I guess the abuser operates on the assumption that we're stupid enough to allow them to get away with murder.... they'll be allowed to continue, unchecked: /
I guess they sometimes are :evil:
-
IMO talking about boundaries is fine when talking about the "ordinary" badly behaved individual, or the common "jerk".
The ball game is entirely different when the NPdisordered steps into the picture. There are no guidelines, no rules, no nothing. Everything is smoke and mirrors. The smartest person can be taken in. How could they not, when dealing with a disordered mind. There is no proper basis for any kind of dealing.
I think I had sturdy boundaries all my life, came from a good kind family, independent, living abroad, working, nice social life, the usual normal existence. Well, I can tell you, there is NO way of telling, not with the NPD. In fact their very existence depends on seeming "normal", and better than normal.
My ex was the most normal, "regular guy" type you could meet. Looking back he was probably "too normal". He was diffident, considerate, not flash, polite, pleasant, educated, non-smoker, did not drink except on the very odd occasion, in fact precisely what I expect most of you on here would like to find in a person or future partner. People talk about red flags. Nonsense. You will see red flags, for sure, in the ordinary badly behaved, or the jerk, well in advance.
I would have run the other way had he displayed any freaky or flaky behaviour. We were well into marriage before it became slowly evident that something was amiss, something pretty awful.
Take care all
Hermes
-
Which takes me back to where I started ........ the Brainwashing techniques and the drip drip drip ...... like a dripping tap.
My husband was the silent N
In the beginning, there was no bad behaviour.
Clever
Devious
Sly
Crafty
Cunning
Smoke and Mirrors
....... Resonate with my married life experience with my XNH who was the classic "Wolf in Sheep's Clothing"
Leah
PS. He stalked my soul as a young person and interviewed my mother, then brainwashed and programmed me slowly ... drip drip drip
like a dripping tap.
Last year, I discovered that he had told a family friend after our few dates "I am going to marry her, she is mine"
-
Personal responsibility = common sense = making new mistakes and not repeating old mistakes
Once we're aware of the facts, we're responsible for our own wellbeing... no one else.
We don't accept that others, who make promises, will be responsible for us. No matter how sweet the deal sounds.
We're happy and secure enough on our own to say "NO thank you" to innapropriate unhealthy contracts that appear to offer comfort and pleasure, right?
Is that as simple as being wise enough to recognize when a deal's too good to be true?
Does that equate to being street wise?
Emotionally intelligent?
Healthy enough to find that kind of bait odd and unnatractive?
Is it that we have unresolved issues that open us up to an unrealistic sales pitch? We want the promised gift so much we put on blinders to the red flags flying?
That's the key.
Paying attention to everything, not just the parts that are attractive and make us feel safe and warm.
The history of the person selling the story.
The facts that don't quite add up.
The first unkind words or deeds that are turned back on us and explained away as a fault of our own..... the demands begin to trickle in softly..... and once we've accepted responsibility for someone else's behavior..... we're already cooked: /
If we understand that we're responsinble for ourselves.... and other'sa re responsible for themselves.... the we can't be fooled, can we?
-
Personal responsibility = common sense = making new mistakes, and not repeating old mistakes
Once we're aware of the facts, we're responsible for our own wellbeing... no one else.
We don't accept that others, who make promises, will be responsible for us. No matter how sweet the deal sounds.
We're happy and secure enough on our own to say "NO thank you" to innapropriate unhealthy contracts that appear to offer comfort and pleasure, right?
My view exactly, Lighter
Leah
-
Not saying everyone's taken in but..... what I am saying is that I believe, true or not, that there are red flags somewhere.
Old stories about past relationships.
A comment from a sibling or a parent.
A Grandmother's odd remark.
Co worker's resentments.
And.... I think they actually tell us who they are..... but they explain that they want to leave that behind bc we make them want to be better people, settle down, change their ways, be good family men.......
I couldbe wrong but this is my experience and my perception when it comes to people who prey on others bc that's what they are.... not what they do.
There's always a trail of chaos somewhere behind them, isn't there?
-
Back then, I was only a young girl, and bearing in mind that I was living enmeshed in my NFOO homelife etc.
But NOW ...
that I know ...
All those Red Flags areas that you have mentioned would be important for me to ascertain.
Checking out family and friends, including work environment, would be paramount for me.
Along with my own perception, intuition, gut feeling. To discern and decide.
It's my life, I own it, and I am responsible for it.
Leah
PS > And if the man has nothing to hide etc., then he should have no problem with my doing just that, in fact, it should bode well, as he would see a woman who is reasonably healthy, mature, balanced and discerning. He should hopefully, be pleased!!
-
My ex was the most normal, "regular guy" type you could meet. Looking back he was probably "too normal". He was diffident, considerate, not flash, polite, pleasant, educated, non-smoker, did not drink except on the very odd occasion, in fact precisely what I expect most of you on here would like to find in a person or future partner. People talk about red flags. Nonsense. You will see red flags, for sure, in the ordinary badly behaved, or the jerk, well in advance.
I would have run the other way had he displayed any freaky or flaky behaviour. We were well into marriage before it became slowly evident that something was amiss, something pretty awful.
Hi Hermes,
Wow - I could really relate with what you wrote above. Ever since I had a run in with a woman who was my therapist and is a N, I keep my eyes open for people who behave too nicely and or too normal or too perfect. It is important to listen not to what someone is saying but to what someone is not saying....listen for the withholding. My ex N therapist was so withholding and always played games of smoke screens and mirrors. After three years of friendship and therapy I still have no idea who she was and or is but she sure did want me to cross the therapy boundaries and be her groupie or follower...not normal behavior but she could act soooooo normal...it was always so confusing yet she was so talented at the game I would even rationalize my confused feelings to her benefit.
After only our first three sessions of working together she invited me into her prayer ministry which was the first crossing of a boundary with her. The second came when she started doing social things with myself and her other clients. She would surround herself with clients and somehow make sure that she was the focus and center of attention. Then she started asking me to babysit. I noticed that I seemed be the only one of her clients who got the special invite to watch her son...I noted one day that my babysitting for her had the effect of making me feel more privileged or special than her other clients -- yuck!
She crossed boundaries all the time but her guise or excuse for crossing them was kindness...all in the name of love and fellowship she would say.
She was also emotionally shallow and extremely distrusting.
Here is an excerpt from the Dynamics of Evil (Leah recently posted here):
Such a person, by virtue of his olympian egotism, always regards others as inferior to himself. Everyone is a simpleton in his eyes. What helps afford him this illusion is that most people are unsuspecting and are unaware of the degree to which they are being taken advantage of, used and abused. This unawareness is not due to a general lack of intelligence in people, but to their tendency to project their own range of normalcy onto others. Hence, their disinclination to suspect someone so profoundly depraved to be in their midst, carrying on an existence that is fundamentally and thoroughly alie. But the character disordered conveniently regard this trait as evidence of intellectual inferiority and will take a twisted delight in the knowledge that they have so many fooled.
But it is necessary to know well how to disguise this characteristic, and to be a great pretender and dissembler; and men are so simple, and so subject to present necessities, that he who seeks to deceive will always find someone who will allow himself to be deceived.14
When it is a question of evil, it is precisely the element of disguise that people tend to overlook. We are wont to assume that evil, character disorder, profound moral depravity, psychopathy, pathological narcissism, etc., are easy to detect and that such people can only intimidate and inspire fear upon a first encounter. But this is only the case with those not intelligent enough to disguise their depravity, like the common criminal. The most dangerous among us are those intelligent enough to appear as paragons of virtue.
This so describes my N saint therapist - her disguise and lack of respect for others boundaries.
Lise
-
Herme.... what was the first indicator for you.... that your H wasn't what he appeared?
Did it just come out of the blue and hit like a hurricane or did it start small and get larger as he crossed your boundaries again and again?
What was his history?
No red flags.... I can;t imagine that an N would have no history of abuse or chaos in his wake.
-
“I was struck this afternoon by how some folks might perceive a lack of boundaries as a lack of common sense, and it drove me to distraction thinking about the difference between common sense and repeating old mistakes. What's the difference?”
Dear Lighter, I relate to this so deeply.
You cannot have something you do not know it exists.
You cannot produce something you have never seen.
For example the queen Maria Antoinette, from France, when she was told that people were rebellious because they were hungry, she said, why? Because they do not have bread, her servant said, then she said, no bread? Why don’t they eat cakes?
She did not know.
How can you set for your self something you have never seen or experienced?
-
Dear Lighter:
You have my word that there were no red flags, none. As I mentioned in another post, I had been around, independent, worked and lived abroad, great FOO, and I think I was/am a fairly shrewd person.
Also, my ex met all members of my family before we married, including even cousins, and close friends. None of those people saw absolutely anything "odd" about this man. In fact, friends or relatives would say to me: "you are a lucky girl to have met such a very nice man".
He had been married once before, (it does happen LOL), and I met him long after his divorce was over. I saw no problem there. Peope do after all divorce and remarry. He kept in constant touch with his own family, and seemed very empathic towards them. He got on well with my father and when around would help my mother with little tasks like bits and pieces of DIY.
He was what one would call a nice conservative guy, and what many mothers would probably have called in the past "a suitable husband". LOL.
The change was sort of imperceptible, and he, well, he became strange. Then again, he had some physical health problems around that time, had been in hospital, and at first I thought it might be just bad anxiety. Shortly aftterwards I became to think "he is going insane". Yes!
I had never in my life up to six or seven years ago even heard of a PD, and I had never heard the word "dysfunction" even. Can you imagine. I had never had occasion to even meet a mentally ill person, less so an abusive person.
I was just torpedoed by the whole situation. It was so unbelievable that this so "normal" man seemed to be becoming insane. It made no sense. I would catch him looking at me as if he had never seen me before in his life, for example. (And of course he hadn't really, because you are never ever really "there" for the NPD).
Of course I reacted badly to his "devaluation", and decided "I am not having this stuff". I gave back as good as I got. Believe me, a useless exercise. Neither can you reason with an NPD. It is a no win situation.
Fast forward: he was diagnosed NPD by a psych. I listened to that psych with my mouth literally open. I did not know what a personality disorder was! But, at least I had an answer. And that was it.
Hermes
-
Thanks and I can appreciate your story, Herme.
But..... there was a divorce in his past. Did you not ask what that was about and did he not blame everything on her?
What did his family say about that union?
Is he still in touch with the ex?
Close touch with their family doesn't necessarily mean that they're good family men, as you've seen.
When a man has a trail of ex's that won't have anything to do with him or when they seem to be insane women who stalk or have confrontations over and over again with each other, while Mr. WOnderful stands by and enjoys being fought over.... it's a red flag flying.
I think there are always flags, if we look hard enough and don't dismiss them.
What were you told about his ex and his past relationships?
I'm betting the story was used to build you up and make you feel very very special.
-
Some of these people are able to camoflage the red flags quite well and I have no doubt Hermes had no clue her ex was a nut. But Gabben is also right on the money when she says it is what they don't say that is what convicts them.
Goes back to that "Assume Good Intent" idea of a few threads ago. If we assume good intent then we take things at face value and don't dig into someone's past. We don't really try to see what their family relationships are actually like deep down or what really happened in a divorce. The really good liars know how to make us believe they are trustworthy on the things we can easily see, which lulls us into not looking at the concealed things.
The red flags are always there, but sometimes they're truly buried. The lesson, after being burned, is always do your spade work.
mud
-
Dear Lighter and all
No, I was told no stories, or anything to build me up. He had one previous wife, and that was it. I was really not particularly interested in his former wife, at all. As he seemed like a perfectly normal human being, why would I start to ask questions about his ex-wife. I would not like someone asking me about my ex-husband, if they met me.
They divorced and that was it. No, he was not in contact with her, but was on excellent terms with her now adult children (from her own first marriage, she was a widow). I know for a fact they simply split the house, property etc. down the middle and each went their own way. It happens. I think it is quite unhealthy lingering over old marriages/relationships, unless you absolutely have to see the ex because of children or whatever.
The few times he mentioned his first wife, he always spoke well of her, said she was a good person, but that (like I suppose can happen in many marriages) they kind of drifted apart.
Lighter, I already felt quite special, (I am special LOL), I do not/did not need anyone to make me feel anything LOL. This man was so normal you would not believe. There was none of this rush you off your feet stuff, or charm, or anything like that. That kind of stuff cuts no ice with me. I was a career girl, I did not particularly have an urge to get married, but this seemed like a very nice man to make a future with.
I most certainly would never have asked his family about her/their marriage. It would have been most inelegant. He had been divorced about four years when he met me.
All the best and take care
Hermes
-
Personal responsibility = common sense = making new mistakes and not repeating old mistakes
Once we're aware of the facts, we're responsible for our own wellbeing... no one else.
We don't accept that others, who make promises, will be responsible for us. No matter how sweet the deal sounds.
We're happy and secure enough on our own to say "NO thank you" to innapropriate unhealthy contracts that appear to offer comfort and pleasure, right?
Is that as simple as being wise enough to recognize when a deal's too good to be true?
Does that equate to being street wise?
Emotionally intelligent?
Healthy enough to find that kind of bait odd and unnatractive?
Is it that we have unresolved issues that open us up to an unrealistic sales pitch? We want the promised gift so much we put on blinders to the red flags flying?
That's the key.
Paying attention to everything, not just the parts that are attractive and make us feel safe and warm.
The history of the person selling the story.
The facts that don't quite add up.
The first unkind words or deeds that are turned back on us and explained away as a fault of our own..... the demands begin to trickle in softly..... and once we've accepted responsibility for someone else's behavior..... we're already cooked: /
If we understand that we're responsinble for ourselves.... and other'sa re responsible for themselves.... the we can't be fooled, can we?
Oh BINGO, Lighter.
If I'd had you by my side, I could've skipped an entire horrible 2nd marriage.
You are wise and boy does that bode well for your own future...
once the way clears.
love
Hops
-
Hello TT:
No, I do not live in Granada. I studied there, many many years ago. At the moment I am in Ireland. Spain is only a couple of hours by air from here. Here in Europe, people from different European countries live in each other's countries, and the cultural differences are not very vast. Customs may different, some traditions, but basically people are people.
Different languages, yes, but we get around that. LOL.
No, no cross culture, although NPD is NPD, the mental disorder, regardless of where the individual is from.
Best wishes
Hermes
-
Hi Hermes,
Yes, I'm aware that Europeans travel conveniently between the countries much the same as we in the US travel freely between states. In my limited travels abroad, I have been keenly aware of what I thought were cultural differences, but then maybe I'm a highly curious soul or perhaps as you say it's more the customs, traditions and languages, not cultural.
I expect that as you say NPD is NPD regardless of geography. Even so, adapting strategies to include differences in customs, traditions, cultural differences would be very N - efficient! :)
tt
PS I would love to hear your 'story'...
-
Hello again Teartracks:
I have put up a few posts on a couple of other threads, with bits and pieces of my "story". Generally, speaking, I prefer not to go back there at all. To quote someone else, quite some time ago, " don't look back, because the view sure ain't pretty". The NPD experience is a dismal one, and it is best, and the healthiest thing, to move on and up. I can say how I clawed my way back to "myself" after the N-trauma, and the after is the part that really counts. It took vast effort, some very bad moments, moments of fright and panic, hard work, but there is nothing to beat the relief.
I think there is a slight difference between us and the U.S.A. in that English rules in all your states, whereas each country here has a different language. What I am saying is that while customs and traditions may vary, people everywhere are essentially much the same, you get good, bad and indifferent everywhere. I have lived in different places, the greater part of my life in Spain, and also some time in France, and that is my experience.
My friends come from a variety of countries: one is Belgian, another is French, one is Italian, one English girl, one Dutch, and when we gather for a coffee or a chat, it is a kind of U.N. LOL.
I frankly don't think NPDs even notice where they are, they are a kind of race unto themselves.
Hope you are having a good day.
All the best
Hermes
-
Hermes,
I agree they are a "race" unto themselves. I have tried to write about him but I am still sickened by the carefully manufactured front he presented. I spent a lot of time in shock at how he used his D as bait and now I am just disgusted. I met Mr shy who was honest and faithfull with poor social skills but so committed to our "relationship".
I cannot write anymore............. to think of him right now makes me want to throw up.... seems like disgust has replaced anger, frustration, shame........... feels like progress.
axa
-
Exactly, Axa, that is progress!
Waste of time anyhow writing about what amounts to a "lost cause", i.e. the N. Have you ever noticed also how utterly boring they are!?
It is good to think about you, write about you, talk about you.
All the best
Hermes
-
Hermes,
Boring is not the word for it......... I recall telling him being with him was a mixture of mind numbing boredom and high level dramarama - always about him.
It was not possible to have a conversation - it was a series of statements and if I dared contradict well I am sure you know the consequences of that.
I think you were lucky that you had a supportive and loving family unfortunately I did not have that. My confidence was shot and self esteem hit an undescribible low. It was like crawling out of the slime but thankfully I found the reserves within me to pick myself up. I still struggle with the madness but work hard at staying grounded. I agree the recovery has been a combination of exercise, therapy, work........... looking forward to the day when the nightmare seems very very far away in the dim and distant past.
axa
-
It will, Axa, it will.
I came from a loving and supportive FOO, but at the time of the N-trauma and blow-up, my Dad had died years previously, my Mother was not in the best of health (I never ever told her what had happened). However, I had good sensible friends too, and what patience they all had, listening to me!!!
Looking back, it is just the strange sensation that it did not happen.
All the best
Hermes