Do people with sturdy boundaries....

[lighter]

think the lack of boundaries is lack of common sense?

Is it common sense to have proper boundaries in place?

I can't tell what percentage of the population has healthy boundaries and what doesn't in order to call it common sense: /

I do know that I look around at obviouse unhealthy patterns and wonder why they can't be changed.

My own patterns and those of others, around me.

Creatures of habit..... face pressed up against the glass and too close to see what's going on clearly?

Dancing with old devils and unable to break the spell and see what's in front of us?

Comfortable with repeating unhealthy patterns and discussing the results over and over and over again, like the results have nothing to do with our choices?

Driven by pain to repeat until things magically change on their own, bc that makes sense?

Always someone else's fault.... nothing to be done about our fates but see where it takes us?

I was struck this afternoon by how some folks might perceive a lack of boundaries as a lack of common sense, and it drove me to distraction thinking about the difference between common sense and repeating old mistakes.  What's the difference?

::contemplating what life must look like when viewed by someone who was never forced validate someone's distorted reality::

[axa]

Lighter,

Good to hear from you.  I think for people who grew up in "good enough" families don't even think in terms of boundaries...........they just have them.  Maybe it is like saying "its stupid to walk across a busy highway" of course it is, you could get seriously hurt or killed............. but I have stepped onto the highway of Narcissism when I knew "things were not right" so I ignored my gut (common sense) and trusted the (external) N.

xxxxxxxxx

axa

[mudpuppy]

  What's odd to me is how even people who grew up in "good enough" families, to use axa'a term can still allow their boundaries to be violated by one person while enforcing them against others.
  How do we get manipulated into allowing one person to do things to us over and over that we would never allow anyone else to do to us even once?

mud

[Ami]

We probably don't want to face some truth in the situation(IMO) , Mud.                    Ami

[Leah]

Steven Hassan ("Releasing the Bonds - Empowering People To Think for Themselves") and others have pointed out

that one of the hallmarks of a cult is that it breaks down personal boundaries, thus making the cult member easier to control and manipulate.

Can happen to anyone.

Leah

[Leah]

That's exactly why i have been working on How to Guard yourself (heart, soul, life, etc)

Don't wanna be back in that place again!!

Leah

[Ami]

That is a good point about a cult ,Leah!. Having an N M(or F) is close to being in a cult(lol).          Ami

[Leah]

Lighter:

I was struck this afternoon by how some folks might perceive a lack of boundaries as a lack of common sense, and it drove me to distraction thinking about the difference between common sense and repeating old mistakes.  What's the difference?


Lighter,

Commonsense plays a huge part, I think, what's the use of boundaries, yet not using an ounce of commonsense,

especially, after one is enlightened and equipped with the necessary tools for living.

Makes sense to me, thinking about it some.

that same old well worn cliche ...... Wisdom and Discernment  

springs to mind.

Leah

[Leah]

That is a good point about a cult ,Leah!. Having an N M(or F) is close enough for government work(lol).          Ami

Too right!!  Ami

We should place that at the top of our CV   

Love, Leah

[lighter]

I can see my own mistakes.... having ignored red flags, etc.

I can see other people's mistakes too.... repeating mistakes and not seeing other possibilities, etc.  

It's gotta be easier to see a red flag when we're not emotionally being held hostage or dependant on the person stepping on our boundaries.

I probably think people with strong enough boundaries to withstand assault..... are pretty selfish people to begin with..... and that's not good.

Changing our view of people who prioritize their boundaries may be part of the equation.


Mud..... nobody expects a family member to treat us like prey..... it's a hard pill to swallow.  Esp when their words are saying one thing.... and their actions another.  

It just takes a while to reconcile it beyond doubt: /

The scales get tipped.... and then we understand.  But not before.

On the common sense and not crossing a busy highway, axa...... I guess it depends on what's been promised to us.... when we reach the other side.  

Sometimes we're focused on the beloved promise.... and not the highway crossing..... and that's a problem.  Not wary enough about our own safety.

[Leah]

Are you in control of your life? Do people take advantage of you at work and at home? Do you have trouble saying no?

Cloud and Townsend - Laws of Boundaries.”  An extract ....

“Receiving Other People’s Personal Boundaries.”  Some of us out there that are control freaks that do not like to hear other people say NO to us. If this is a struggle for you, you may use intimidation or guilt to get the other person behaving like you want them to.

Another person that struggles with hearing someone else tell them no is a person with low self esteem. You may feel like his NO is a direct reflection of how he feels about you. In this case we get out of the practice of asking for what we need because we are fearful of the other person’s response. You may invite a friend out to dinner, they say NO, and now you feel like they must be mad at you for something you have done.


“Proactive vs. Reactive Boundaries.” Ask yourself: are you always reacting to people or are you being proactive and letting people know where you stand and that you mean it?

I know you can picture the reactionary people in your life. Usually they are pretty stressed out. They react in anger and frustration a lot of the time. They always are in a hurry and don’t slow down even when they have time.

Those who have good proactive personal boundaries are confident with themselves. They realize that by saying NO to something it does not mean they will lose love or feel left out.

Did you know that people who say NO to things are happier than people who never say no?

Sometimes our NO can be the biggest weapon to give our proactive personal boundaries back.

A common myth of a person fighting the boundary issue is they feel like they are being “selfish.”

If you are 30, 40, or even 50 years old and you have never said NO to anyone or anything, your first feeling will probably be guilt!

Immediately shame messages run through your head about how you are hurting the other person by not helping them.

Cloud and Townsend point out that there is a difference between being selfish and being self-centered.

Being selfish is a natural part of growing up.  Believe it or not, it is healthy for your infant/toddler to demand what they want from you. If they can learn how to ask for what they want without being shamed when they do it, they will have a better chance of expressing themselves in confident ways when they become teenagers and adults.

In order for us to take care of other people around us we have to be able to take care of ourselves. If you cannot take care of yourself, you are probably not doing all you could to take care of the people around you. This means a little bit of selfishness can go a long way!

Cloud, Dr. Henry, Townsend, Dr. John. Boundaries. Zondervan. 1992, Grand Rapids, MI

[Ami]

Dear Leah,
  I was talking to my Aunt ,yesterday. I could see that she has boundaries as a very natural part of her. For abused people, it is so hard, though. I noticed that ,yesterday. To me, boundaries are such a "hard" issue. For her, they are natural---bleh.      Love   Ami

[lighter]

Steven Hassan ("Releasing the Bonds - Empowering People To Think for Themselves") and others have pointed out

that one of the hallmarks of a cult is that it breaks down personal boundaries, thus making the cult member easier to control and manipulate.

Can happen to anyone.

Leah

And maybe that's part of the equation, Leah.

N's... controllers.... test boundaries and don't hang around if the small transgressions are repelled.  They move on.  The people who allow the small transgression..... easily move on to larger transgressions. 

I say it and mean it..... 'Don't make the first excuse for bad behavior." 

Much easier said than done when we have an emotional investment: /

[Leah]

Dear Leah,
  I was talking to my Aunt ,yesterday. I could see that she has boundaries as a very natural part of her. For abused people, it is so hard, though. I noticed that ,yesterday. To me, boundaries are such a "hard" issue. For her, they are natural---bleh.      Love   Ami

Dear Ami,

Understand what you mean.  It is almost as though we feel as if we need to apologize for having boundaries.

What that guy there said about 'Shame' messages immediately run through ones head, because, we have never had boundaries before, rings true

Love, Leah

[Leah]

Steven Hassan ("Releasing the Bonds - Empowering People To Think for Themselves") and others have pointed out

that one of the hallmarks of a cult is that it breaks down personal boundaries , thus making the cult member easier to control and manipulate.

Can happen to anyone.

Leah

And maybe that's part of the equation, Leah.

N's... controllers.... test boundaries and don't hang around if the small transgressions are repelled.  They move on.  The people who allow the small transgression..... easily move on to larger transgressions. 

I say it and mean it..... 'Don't make the first excuse for bad behavior." 

Much easier said than done when we have an emotional investment: /

Yes, Lighter,

After reading and reading and thinking about it all etc etc., right now, I am fully convinced that that is it, in a nutshell.

breaks down personal boundaries is clearly their objective.

 I say it and mean it..... 'Don't make the first excuse for bad behavior."     That has to be our mandate ....... simply, has to be.

If I don't turn and walk away, then I, and only I, am to blame for the outcome.

Tis' my personal responsibility ........ with as you rightly point out ...... commonsense.   

(wisdom and discernment)

Agree with you 100%

Leah