Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on January 27, 2008, 11:10:36 PM
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When little monkeys lose their mothers, scientists have prove that they can be given s stuffed animal and this would accomplish the emotional representation of a mother. The little monkey develops attachment to the stuffed animal. Having the presence of that piece of material give security to the baby monkey. That means, it is a very primitive feeling, not rational of course.
When there are traffic accidents, many police officers and paramedics, carry teddy bears, to give to children involved in the accident and that make the children feel a little less scared. Of course, primitive feeling and totally an irrational feeling.
Some women have a man in their life, living with them, many times the man does not make money, does not help, does not give love, but he is there. Many times, immature, needy, jealous, but he is there. Many times, behaves like a son, even causing problems, or using drugs, damaging children, or a drunk, you name it. But he is there. He is there. Occupying a space. A space that otherwise would be empty, but that is only material space. Like a stuffed animal. These kind of woman, have irrational feelings, and very primitive feelings, and the presence of that piece of material, gives them a sense of security, like the teddy bear to the children or to a little monkey who lost his momma. A very primitive feeling.
Sorry I did not know how to spell teddy bear.
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Well, that actually does just about sum it up, Lupita... except I don't know that the feelings are all that irrational.
I do believe they're primitive feelings, though... in that I believe human beings were created by God for relationship with others. I mean, when God made Adam, He said, "It is not good that man should be alone."
I guess creation is about as primitive as it gets.
So, I figure that by divine design, everybody needs some version of a teddy bear.
I also have a stuffed caterpillar on my bed.
Carolyn
P.S. lol... yes, you spelled it right! :D
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CH, you did not get my point,,,,,,,,,gggggggggrrrrrrrrr, why people do not understand me??????????
I am not talking about a woman who finds a god man and live a wonderful love, not prefect but good, with help for each other.
I am talking of a woman who has an idiot for husband and she keeps it no matter what, at all costs, and that is irrational primnitive. Self destructive.
Remember proverbs 1 vers 7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning og knowledege but foolish dispice discipline and wisdom. Stupids do not fear the Lord.
Plus, also says that if a christian woman marries a non believer she is setting her self for failure. Not saying to not predicate to the infidel, but not to marry them.
And I am giving my opinion, if a woman is completely happy having a drunk in her house, well, have fun with it. I am talking about those who are suffering with it and they do not leave him, just having the statue in ther couch is good anough for them, to give them something. Liek an inflatable doll.
CH you are displaying inflexible thoughts, IMO, you can disregard if you want. Ignore it if you want. That is just IMO. And I am wrong many times.
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I am talking about women who are constantly complaining about their husband but they do not leave him.
Some wome even get killed. Many pay insurance and kill them, Lacy Peterson, another Peterson whose husband is police officer, I can mention thousnd of women who appeared n the news who were killed by their husbnds, there is something.
CH you are explained that your husband is good, so, you do not fit in this thing.
I am talking about women who are unhappy, but they have something, they feel better with having that piece of junk having beer on her couch. Irrational, primitive feeling.
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I have an aunt who lost her house after thirty years of payment because her husband was a gambler and she never left him. A house that she paid. He did not. And she lost it.
I have an acquaintance of mine that sent three thousand dollars to Kenya to have a man buy a ticket to come to see her, he kept the money and never came.
How many women here on the board are suffering because of the irrational believe that they are not worth it with out a man in the house. And the man does not serve for nothing. Sometimes they even are impotent. How many women put up with cheating after cheating.
It is like the teddy bear. It is an irrational feeling, normal for children, not for adults.
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Even animals reject mates that hurt them they even reject mates that hurt their babies. Lionesses deffent theri babies with her life even aginst the father of the babies.
Only humans fall more than twice in the sema trap.
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That was beautifully said, Lupita. Thank you for putting those thoughts into words.
I had so many teddy bears as a toddler, i remember tucking them all into my bed at night (both ends) and then sleeping on the floor because there was no more room!
I've had the kinds of boyfriends you mentioned, and it felt better than being alone. But having a man is more complex haviing a teddy bear. A man will appeal to a woman's nurturing instinct, and man had needs much deeper than what a stuffed toy needs. Men will prey on our womanly nature, but we also get something back, because women do feel sincere joy in loving. Men do not alway relate to this. Women can feel the joy of loving & providing nuture, and that is its own reward. Its not something to be ashamed about, IMHO, but it is so often deemed t be `unhealthy', mostly by males, lol.
X bella
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Dear Lupita:
I understand what you are talking about.
"I am talking of a woman who has an idiot for husband and she keeps it no matter what, at all costs, and that is irrational primnitive. Self destructive."""
I agree with what you are saying. Many many abused women stay with the abuser. It is a complex matter.
What you are describing is "The Stockholm Syndrome" aka "loving the abuser". (see the article on Dr. Joe Carver's site). I think the article describes the syndrome perfectly.
I have read about women who left the abusive/alcoholic/crazy husband, and the social services got the women housed, got them a benefit, even helped them to find some kind of work. And guess what? On checking up, the social workers found that the women HAD GONE BACK to the abusive mate, even though there was no financial or other need for them to do so.
One could write reams about this topic.
All the best
Hermes
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Good Morning, Lupita,
You're right! I did not recognize that you were speaking of an abusive man being allowed to continue abusing in the home, just for the sake of keeping another warm body around!
I had the impression you were speaking of more common, ordinary immaturity - which, of course, is not exclusive to males.
Now I see.
Yes, I agree that it's irrational to remain in an abusive relationship.
Hope you have an excellent Monday, Lupita :)
Carolyn
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Hello Lupita:
""I have an acquaintance of mine that sent three thousand dollars to Kenya to have a man buy a ticket to come to see her, he kept the money and never came."" (Lupita)
That sure says a lot more about the woman than about that man! It gives a whole new meaning to the word "desperation". Amazing the number of women who are duped by these internet scams (a kind of version of the Nigerian scams).
Lupita: You express yourself very well in English.
All the best.
Hermes
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IMO, you stay with an abusive man b/c you are so beaten down that you think you deserve it. You think the abuse is your fault. You think that if only you could be "better, he would be better and love you and it would all go away.
You do it b/c you are decieved about your own value.That is probably the answer----in one sentence. Ami
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Hello Bella:
I agree with your post. Now, it is good to be loving and kind. It is not good to wear one"s heart on one"s sleeve, and men do not find it very attractive. The more independent you are seen to be, with your own interests, friends, financial freedom and so on, the better you will do in a relationship. And that does not mean one can be loving and kind also. A wife is that, a wife to her husband, a woman in every sense, and the husband is a husband, but not a sort of surrogate son.
Here in Ireland there is a great expression (when referring to the motherwife). "She even stirs his tea for him". LOL
Hermes
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Hello to all:
I have a teddy bear, quite old. Funny thing is, exNH bought him for me one Christmas, all those years ago. Teddy is in the spare room, on a shelf. He has the same inquisitorial and rather cold stare as ex-NH. LOL! When I feel like it or when I notice, I simply put teddy face down, . Heaven alone knows what kind of therapy you might call that. LOL.
All the best
Hermes
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Hello Bella:
I agree with your post. Now, it is good to be loving and kind. It is not good to wear one"s heart on one"s sleeve, and men do not find it very attractive. The more independent you are seen to be, with your own interests, friends, financial freedom and so on, the better you will do in a relationship. And that does not mean one can be loving and kind also. A wife is that, a wife to her husband, a woman in every sense, and the husband is a husband, but not a sort of surrogate son.
Here in Ireland there is a great expression (when referring to the motherwife). "She even stirs his tea for him". LOL
Hermes
Its so true Hermes; thats how women have `had' to become....independent, financially free, taking care of ourselves, struggling to have equal power. But there was a time where it was normal for a woman to depend on her husband, and a mother's dependence on a man was not seen as undesirable or weak.
You are right, a lot of men run at the sight of a woman who they might have to care for and provide for. But I think these men are more likely to be the irresponsible ones who are looking for a `mother' and `provider' at the same time. In my own life, my independence has usually attracted the guys who don't want to be responsible, not the ones who want to pull their weight. The guys i attract want to be nurtured and loved, provided for (or at least not have to provide themselves), and be free of responsibilities. The appeal is that they get the best of both worlds.
I liked my sister's approach, when she was divorced. She had a new baby and a toddler at foot, and she wanted to meet a wealthy, responsible man to look after them, and she didn't pretend otherwise. Her life was `messy' and she was poor, but she wanted to be a full-time mother, so she did that and scraped by on welfare.
Eventually she met my brother in law, who is an ideal husband in my opinion. I truly doubt that he would have been attracted to her if he couldn't see a clear space in her life for him. I know his `type' and have been attracted to such men before, but they are not attracted to someone as independent as I am. I am not their type.
X bella
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Yes, Bella.
And I like being financially free (though I am not by any means rich, far from it,) independent, taking care of myself.
My father insisted that women should have a career, purely from a practical viewpoint. If a woman got widowed young, then she had to be in a position to be able to work. Dad was very adamant on that point. I so miss him!
Hermes
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I love the way he supported you, Hermes. Its so important to have that kind of encouragement from your father. I am so sorry to ehar that he's gone now. Are your parents both Irish? I love Irish people:)
X bella
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Me again Bella.
I think those days are long gone. Both husband and wife now have to work (well that is how it is here), in order to keep the domestic finances going. Absolutely every couple I know, they are both working. There are very few women in this country who stay at home - they cannot afford to, aside from the fact that they like working outside the home. One of my friends is a surgeon, and she travels a lot too because of her job. Yes, she is wealthy, (and very beautiful, so she has the brains and the beauty!) but at the same time she does find time for her kids.
I think men like independent women, not because they think the independent woman will "keep" them, but it is more attractive than the "needy" type. Being independent, financially and psychologically does not mean one does not have space, lots of space, for the man in one's life.
I know I simply could not stay at home (I know, of course, I do not have children), but it would be beyond my comprehension. It is how I was brought up. Aside from that I loathe housework, I can cook, quite well in fact, but I like to do that when I want to. I would definitely be very different to your sister LOL.
All the best
Hermes
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hi all,
When she was little, I gave my daughter a teddy bear, likely Xmas, and he became her cuddly friend--amazing since she never bothered or played with any of the other stuffed animals--he was always with her, at least when she went to bed and this lasted through to about age 13-14. It made me so happy that he was with her and that I had contributed to her comfort with him.
She played with trucks.
Then one day she traded him for another girl's favourite stuffed animal and I was cut to the core. The traded one was a grey dog in Scottish plaid and she never bothered with him. I have no idea what she had expected, and I even remember asking her if she really wanted to trade "Teddy" to this friend.
That still makes me sad.
Oh (((((((((Izzy))))))))) that makes me sad, too. First thing I thought was... sounds like a girl fighting to grow up and give up childhood things. Maybe I'm too mooshy, but I can't help but feel that she surely regretted that exchange.
And Hermes... turning an ex-N bear face down... heh... sounds like something I would do! I call that cheap therapy!!
Carolyn
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((((((( Izzy )))))) and (((( Teddy Bear )))))
Been thinking about my teddy bear, with his missing musical box, his little heart.
Love, Leah
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Hermes, i find your thoughts very validating and I really appreciate them. Honestly, i feel like the family loser a lot of the time. Everything I have, I have earned myself or created myself. And I am light-years behind my sisters in terms of stability and wealth. I may never own a home, judging by housing prices these days. My sisters own many. Some were given to them by our parents, but the rest were given to them by men who had money.
I sometimes feel that my independence was forced upon me, because I was not beautiful or `marriage-worthy'. But I do value it, too. I would feel so strange being financially indebited to someone else, such as a man on permanent basis, when i am perfetly capable of pulling my weight.
Your posts are kind of snapping me out of this negative way of thinking, so thankyou Hermes.
X bella
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Bella:
You are welcome, m'dear.
I could not bear to be financially dependent on any man. It is just alien to my thinking. Like you, I am perfectly capable of pulling my weight.
I have married friends, and to a woman they have independence from their husbands (and this goes for all kinds of age groups). Some have bank accounts on their own, of which their husbands are not aware, or which their husbands feel is a normal thing to have; some own a bit of property of their own; this is considered quite normal, indeed laudable, over here.
Then again there ARE those women out on the "hunt" for a rich man (makes no difference what he is like as a person). Some women marry an old geezer, with lots of cash, but not a lot else. I know I could not do it.
I would hate to be beholden to a man. Ex-NH did his best to make me "beholden" It didn't work LOL.
Hugs
Hermes
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Hi Lupita,
When little monkeys lose their mothers, scientists have prove that they can be given s stuffed animal and this would accomplish the emotional representation of a mother. The little monkey develops attachment to the stuffed animal. Having the presence of that piece of material give security to the baby monkey. That means, it is a very primitive feeling, not rational of course.
I'm wondering if loss (as in your quote above) could be the culprit or the cause of those clilnging, negative behaviors? Just a thought...
tt
'Separation and Loss' is an issue of some importance, with regard to children, young people.
Leah
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Yes, Bella. Both my parents were Irish. I was born in Ireland (Dublin), brought up in Ireland. My father did not marry until he was 40. He travelled a lot - nearly every country in the world - before he married. He had a very open mind, unusual vision, had seen a lot, was a very interesting person to talk to. I wish he could have lived forever.
And you? Many Australians have Irish ancestry, that I know. I hear your country is beautiful, and now very popular for holidays with the Irish! Ireland has become a wealthy country, and our citizens seem to never stop travelling these days!
All the best
Hermes
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Well, I have been out all day, working all day, first the high school then piano lessons after school, the driving for an hour, finally I am at home and see that many people have responded. Up since 5:00 AM. Well, thank you for your responses.
I was refering not to abusive husbands, that is a different pathology.
I was referring to husbands who do not serve for anything, not exactly abusive, but husbands who do not give love, do not give money, do not give sex, do not give support, do not help at home, but women keep them just for the sake of having a "man" in the house, because there are some women that feel comfort in knowing that there is a person of the masculine gender in the house. Just like the teddy bear, the teddy bear represents something, and the presence of a masculine hiuman, represents something.
Many women just enjoy saying "my husband here or my husband there....bla bla..." Just to give the impression to the outside that they have a husband because that makes them feel more comfortable.
They do not even do anything together, never go out, not even like a room mate because a room mate shares expenses.
On top, they tell you, my husband does not help me, boo boo, my husband here and there.
Many women feel not worth it if there is no man in the house. They have to have a man at all costs, and if the man is not doing anything, they do not care, as long as he is there, just there, occupying a space in the house.
I dont know if people undersatnd me, I have seen many of those, not exactly abusing, but just the need of having a man to appear, to say that they have one.
And when they complain, if you ask them why they do not leave them, they either change the subject or deny it, or tell you that he is good, but they just refuse to be with out a man.
I remember a mother of a friend, telling my friend, just marry him, it does not matter if he is bad, just to be able to say that you got married. And my friend did.
This depends in what parents base self esteem in their daughters. Many parents who dispise daughters and spoil sons, create many of this kind of pathologies. And macho fathers and mothers who think that their daughters have to get married at all costs. There are different reasons.
I have to confess that I have something similar, but it is not with men, it is with my son. He sometimes, brings his things and he says that he is going to spend some days with me, and the presence of his piano, his books, his laptop, knowing that sooner or later he will come home, it gives me comfort. But, he is not really here. He leaves the apartment everyday, sometimes does not even spend the night here, I do not even see him, but I see his car in the parking lot, I see his things, and I have comfort, thinking that he is "spending " vacation in my house.
So, it is something similar. I ahve seen him in many friends and relatives. Here in USA and in other countries too.
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I just remember something similar. When I was teaching middle school, wich I realle loved, much more than high school, I remember that students used to say, "I am dating such and such...bla bla bla..."
The truth, they are 12, 13, and 14 yo. Cant drive, mother takes them to movies and pick them up, or take them to the mall and stay there and watch them, I saw it. And they hardly talk to each other, they just say hello, and the just saying hello, they say the next day, I saw my boyfriend last night. If they go to the movies, they do not even sit together, but they say they went to the movies together. And she says, "he is my boyfriend".
That is the kind of relationship, that is the level of communication, that is the level of a relationship, I am talking about. A fantasy.
And I have seen so many, so many. I know people who live like that and they lived like that many many years or marriage.
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Hello Lupita!
How are you?
I realised that you were indeed talking about those women who need to have "a man" (a husband, as the case may be) on the scene, at all costs, rather like a piece of furniture that is neither useful nor decorative, but it is still part of the surroundings LOL. You are right. These are not necessarily abusive husbands, by any means. The couple might as well be perfect strangers to each other, and in a way they are. It is quite extraordinary the number of marriages which are just as you describe, and it is very sad. A question of appearances, as you say.
These women nag and complain about the husband, but have not the remotest intention of leaving him. A kind of strange status quo.
All the best
Hermes
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Hey!!!!!!!! Hermes, thank you for the validation.
I have been so busy with a couple of kids that extremely rude and disrespectful.
So, I have been occupied trying to thicken my skin, so their attacks do not hurt, since i I love my students and it hurts when they hate me just because I put them to work.
Any way, Hermes, you are very good at making feel a person well.
Anyway, I hope that some women understand this, so they do not fall in the trapof putting up with a man just "because".
I stopped doing that a long time ago. Many many years ago. Now I need to do it with bosses and jobs, and students and all in general.
So, fake it till make it.
Prefereda alone rgather than in bad company.
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Absolutely, Lupita. You have lots of courage and attitude LOL. You will make it, all right.
There is a lot to what you say, particularly your last sentence about being better off alone. It is a good saying that:
Mejor sola que mal acompaņada!!!
All the best
Hermes
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Unfortunately, many women think the opposite and prefer to have just about any man, drunk, addicts, Ns, lazy, just so they are not alone. And I know many of them. They need to rely on sombody else becasue they are uncapable to rely on their selves. Too sad.
We need to have a strong interior force. From inside our selves. That when we look at the mirror we do not feel pitty.
To feel well, to exercise, to keep our selves in good shape, to have sun, eat healthy food. And then one good feeling would bring another good feeling.
Well, I have to be in chapel for prayer session at six am, so have to get up at 4:30 AM and live my house at 5:00 AM. So, god bless you all and have a good night.
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Here's a different kind of teddy bear which brings comfort. I made a new friend who has one of these. We meet for puppy play dates.
http://www.dirtypawsteddybears.com/
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Dear Lupita,
You took "Woman Power " pills. Rock On, Girlfriend. Love Ami
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Yes! I second you Ami on what you say. Lupita is the original bionic woman LOL.
All the best
Hermes
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Sad is that I had a "friend" many years ago, who told me all the time, that a man had to give me money, or something, or it was not worth it. Later I knew that she was giving money to her husband. She always made me feel bad because my husband was very unconsiderate to me. Either she was projecting on me, or she wanted me to do what she could not, or she just wanted to ruin me and damage me.
Very difficult.
Any way, I do not know if I asserted my self or I screwed up. My PCP was overcharging me a copayment that was not pertaining and I told the accountant and she said that I have to proved it with my benefits book, and she told me that my account was delinquent. I told her that I had a paper signed from her that she was going to wait for six months before startign asking em fro payments. Also I told her that she did not credited to my account a payment that had done in the past. Instead of looking in her files, she just told me that I had to prove that that payment was not pertinent to what she was crediting to.
So I had to go to my house, get the statement of my isurance company and took it to her in where they show that I was owing less money than she was giving me credit for.
She made another statement and that is it. I said, I do not care now, I will pay you right now the rest so I do not have any more problems with you and I will not come back to this place, becasue, despite that I liked the doctor I did not like the way I was treated by the employees. So I gave her the check and I left and told her that I would never come back there.
So, I lost a good doctor because of a bitch, and I do not know if I asserted my self or I screwed up. I was a good patient, I paid my bills, I compplyed with the odctors orders, I was responsible. I was not apreaciated in any way and was treated badly.
Thye lost a good client.
With the situation like it is now, with so many people with tou insurance and with so maney people in resession, and losing jobs, and inflation, I doubdt that they are having more patients. They should have been more polite with me.
Or so I think.
Any way, after a hard day at work, I praise the Lord because I had a peaceful day at work, hard but with no more than small problems, just inconveniesnts, nothing bad, and I praise the Lord for a hard day f work with out any major events.
Thank you Lord.
Thank you GS, Ami and Hermes ofr your kind words.
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Lupita:
Perhaps the doctor himself might like to hear about the incident. Why not send him a note? I am sure he does not want to lose his patients.
All the best
Hermes