Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Gabben on June 13, 2008, 06:12:07 PM
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there is no need for me to beat myself up for losing it in anger...YOU are all doing it for me, all I have to do is read your posts....shame on me!
I hope that hammering with how wrong I was to label makes people feel better as it must have really caused you some pain so that you need to talk about it, and I am sorry once again.
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Lise
You are OK if everyone slaps labels on you. You are you and don't need anyone to validate you. If you made a mistake, you made a mistake.You are falliable, Lise. It is OK. Ami
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Just a bit of perspective, Lise...
It's not everybody.
And Hops' thread re: healthy community is not about you.
Love,
Carolyn
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Carolyn means it is about me, Lise. Ami
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I know...it is just that I have felt ignored and invalidated, my reality has been invalidated.
I am hurting...and it is not the pity act or the victim dance.
It is the real stabbing pain my chest of what it is like to come on this board to receive so much shame and invalidation.
When other shame you, covertly by ignoring you and talking around you, it creates anger -- it makes me wonder...who is really doing the relational aggression?
My chest hurts with a burning pain.
People who have not been victimized do not understand.
They assume that victims are the ones crying, or weeping, when in fact victims are angry.
There are different types of anger.
I think that people love to shame others here for their mistakes and point fingers because they were all so abused as children, they hate themselves and don't even know it and so shaming others who publically get angry is a way of making themselves feel superior.
Then they go off on the psychobabble of triggers etc...acting super calm and healed, when all they are doing is wearing the mask of sanity for the sake of defense.
My defense are stripped raw...perhaps, that is why I am so raw and real.
Lise
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Lise,
At the risk of becoming "one of them" in your eyes, I have to repeat:
It is not everybody.
All people are not reacting to you this way or relating to you on that basis.
I'm not... and I've seen others offer you a hand and gentle support.
I think and feel that you are getting caught up in broad generalizations.
And I'm not just taking a rational approach, either, because I feel it, too.
I've been the target of the same sort of nonsense, and I've felt some of the same stuff you've expressed, just it doesn't come out of me the same.
I'm sorry that you are hurting so.
I just don't know how much validation might ever be enough?
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Sweetie,
You are loved and valuable and it is inherent, Lise. It is NOT defined by one or a hundred. Ami
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Lise,
I'm completely OK with you. No animosity. No labels.
tt
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I am NOT defined by CB, lollie, Amber, and debkor, Ann3 or anyone else.
I'm free.....Free to feel RAGE at the old abuse that the new abuse is touching.
I am free to heal the deep pain under this..........the old victim hurt without a bunch of small hearts telling me that I am mean, cruel and abusive.........That is the farthest from the truth.
Being angry and having anger does not make you an abuser, sometimes people step on our toes and we just retaliate, with anger, and losing it....but it does not mean that I am a cruel person..........oh...so far from the truth.
No one defines me.
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When there have been terrible atrocities, there were very few who stood up. Our worth is not defined by numbers or others, no matter how many or how few. You define yourself, as you said, Lise. Ami
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Lise,
I'm completely OK with you. No animosity. No labels.
tt
Thanks tt...that was all I needed to hear. some kind simple words.
My head was beginning to fill up again with loud critical shaming voices...the voice of my mom when I would try to stand up for myself as a child.
This pattern is deep and stubborn...it really is, I thought that I had made progress, but I just felt as though I fell off the beam and now I am a walking piece of shit, a no good for nothing basket case of a sack of cruel puss lynching maniac....
I can hear my mom's verbal abuse screaming through my head...it screams what an "idiot" I am, what a "retard" I am, what a "foul" human I am.
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It WAS the old words that were in your head. We all go there. I do, for sure. Glad you are feeling better. It WAS lies and it still IS lies.
Ami
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Two steps forward...
one step back.
And so the healing goes: )
Lighter
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Thanks Ami for your support.
I'm in attention seeking mode and must work harder to heal the wound of invalidation.
It will happen.
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I see you understand lighter, thanks -- I feel as though I have fallen about 20 years back.
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Dear Gabben,
I see you mentioned me in one of your posts, so I want to tell you this:
I truly wish you healing, peace of mind and love, just as I wish these things for myself.
with love,
ann
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Thanks Ann3,
You are an example of turning the other cheek, in a way that I am not good at.........yet.
Peace to you.
Lise
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Dear Ann3,
Do you have a story on the board?
Perhaps I have missed your introduction and what initially brought you to the board?
Lise
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Lise,
Yes, some where on the board, I gave my story. You can 'google' it.
I was hoping for a "right back at 'cha" from you. Oh, well.
ann
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YVW, Gabbin.
We all fall back... then we begin moving forward again.
Helping each other learn from our struggles... is what this board's about.
I'm climbing out of a very bad emotional spot, myself.
The worst thing I can do is beat myself up...
and I KNOW that.
Yet, I can't always manage.
Be gentle to yourself.... the board's here for you.
(((Gabbin)))
lighter
I see you understand lighter, thanks -- I feel as though I have fallen about 20 years back.
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:)
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Lise,
Yes, some where on the board, I gave my story. You can 'google' it.
I was hoping for a "right back at 'cha" from you. Oh, well.
ann
Dear Ann3,
My post was a compliment to you....wishing you healing and peace as well.
Lise
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hi Gabben
Please pardon my ignorance, but was this posted to someone in particular, or the whole board.
I just got up from a sleep and maybe that's why reading this confused me more and more with each response.
Are you all right? Now?
Izzy
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Hi Izzy,
Sorry for the confusion. It is for the board to read, but not directed to hurt anyone in particular, or to stir confusion; in other words I am just expressing my pain.
Thanks for your concern, no need to worry.
I have no hard feelings towards you.
Lise
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I'm climbing out of a very bad emotional spot, myself.
The worst thing I can do is beat myself up...
and I KNOW that.
Yet, I can't always manage.
Be gentle to yourself.... the board's here for you.
(((Gabbin)))
lighter
I see you understand lighter, thanks -- I feel as though I have fallen about 20 years back.
Thanks Lighter... :D
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Lise,
At the risk of becoming "one of them" in your eyes, I have to repeat:
It is not everybody.
All people are not reacting to you this way or relating to you on that basis.
I'm not... and I've seen others offer you a hand and gentle support.
I think and feel that you are getting caught up in broad generalizations.
And I'm not just taking a rational approach, either, because I feel it, too.
I've been the target of the same sort of nonsense, and I've felt some of the same stuff you've expressed, just it doesn't come out of me the same.
I'm sorry that you are hurting so.
I just don't know how much validation might ever be enough?
Thanks Carolyn,
I think that you are correct, it is board generalizations for me.
All that I am expressing here is not for you or for anyone. I am just expressing it out of me.
After I put this post up a huge mass of pain just came out of me along with the memories of my mom's invalidation through verbal abuse.
It was a relief.
This is not me being critical...just getting it out so that I can see reality better so that I am not getting caught up in board generalizations as you say, which I agree with.
Peace....just hurting here...nothing more nothing less.
I'll be OK.
Lise
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I'm sorry you're hurting, Lise.
I'm sorry you have that voice in your head.
It sounds agonizing and exhausting to go through.
hugs
Hops
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Thanks Carolyn,
I think that you are correct, it is board generalizations for me.
All that I am expressing here is not for you or for anyone. I am just expressing it out of me.
After I put this post up a huge mass of pain just came out of me along with the memories of my mom's invalidation through verbal abuse.
It was a relief.
This is not me being critical...just getting it out so that I can see reality better so that I am not getting caught up in board generalizations as you say, which I agree with.
Peace....just hurting here...nothing more nothing less.
I'll be OK.
Lise
Lise, I don't know whether or not this may help... but because I trust you enough as a friend to believe that you will be willing to hear me, I'd like to try.
Now I don't know whether or not this applies a bit to hurt and suffering...
but I've read about anger - like the techniques where people are told to go punch pillows or whatever to let it out - that there is indeed some immediate relief, but...
in practicing the release of that anger/tension/frustration, it can actually open a doorway to a habit of needing that release.
In other words, what I'm trying to say is - -
is it in any way possible that a pattern can be established in this? So that, instead of relieving the pain and hurt, letting it out this way actually encourages it to build up even more so that it seems to require more and more releases?
I don't know!!
Just asking what you think.
Love,
Carolyn
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Dear Carolyn,
Yes, I too have heard that about anger. For me, the pain is not anger, it is pain and tears under the anger.
The anger is just the defense against the pain. Once I can get past the anger and shame I feel for feeling angry, I experience the deep hurt in my heart. This hurt is the healing pain which softens the critical voice, and quiets the shaming voice allowing for a true release of suffering that quiets my angry spirit.
What I am trying to say is that I need to hurt, mourn, suffer the loss (let the tears flow)...which is pain. My anger is the first response, a defense...which then leads to the old hurt and the tears.
There is no need to be angry in life when others insult us - I can chose how to respond - I am just not there...... yet! :D
We are supposed to take insults with quietness. But when my heart is still full of a lifetime defense of self-blame and victim anger it takes time to loosen that stuff up to get to the pain underneath -- that has been my healing path for the last many months.
Anger is the one emotion that others really retreat from and really have the hardest time dealing with it - I understand.
Anger and shame go hand in hand because as children, when we are being violated, our natural response is anger. But our caregivers will rarely allow for the expression of anger because it threatens them. The shame of our caregivers towards our anger stifles our voice, we have to stuff our anger along with the pain.
Some of us have more anger due to more victimization.
I hope this clarifies...it is not the anger that I am releasing...it is the raw hurt under the anger, does that make sense?
Just writing this out to you was a help for me.
Good question, thank you.
Lise
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Oh Lise,
I am sorry that you are hurting so bad. Steps backwards is something I do myself from time to time. I just stepped back to years ago. It does not define me either but still feels yuky sometimes.
And you were wronged. Your stories your experiences as well as the others help me stick up for my friends children who have little voices.
Love
Deb
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Hi Gabben,
My post was a compliment to you....wishing you healing and peace as well.
Sorry I misunderstood you. My misunderstanding reflects the limits of communicating by posting on a board. We can't see faces or hear tones of voice.
Really, truly wishing you good feelings.
love,
ann
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Sorry I misunderstood you. My misunderstanding reflects the limits of communicating by posting on a board. We can't see faces or hear tones of voice.
So true, as well as when there is board conflict it can heighten our sensitivity towards others, putting us on guard, therefore, I understand.
Blessings to you.
Lise
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Dear Lise,
Thank you for explaining to me... and for not taking offense at my question.
I really do want to understand and will keep trying to!
Love,
Carolyn
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Lise, you are one among the "rare" ones I have met in my life, a list that is very very short. You are relentless in your search for the truth as you perceive it and most people give up long before you do because they don't have half your courage. You are a lion and you are beautiful, right or wrong, no matter.
Bill
Dear Carolyn,
Yes, I too have heard that about anger. For me, the pain is not anger, it is pain and tears under the anger.
The anger is just the defense against the pain. Once I can get past the anger and shame I feel for feeling angry, I experience the deep hurt in my heart. This hurt is the healing pain which softens the critical voice, and quiets the shaming voice allowing for a true release of suffering that quiets my angry spirit.
What I am trying to say is that I need to hurt, mourn, suffer the loss (let the tears flow)...which is pain. My anger is the first response, a defense...which then leads to the old hurt and the tears.
There is no need to be angry in life when others insult us - I can chose how to respond - I am just not there...... yet! :D
We are supposed to take insults with quietness. But when my heart is still full of a lifetime defense of self-blame and victim anger it takes time to loosen that stuff up to get to the pain underneath -- that has been my healing path for the last many months.
Anger is the one emotion that others really retreat from and really have the hardest time dealing with it - I understand.
Anger and shame go hand in hand because as children, when we are being violated, our natural response is anger. But our caregivers will rarely allow for the expression of anger because it threatens them. The shame of our caregivers towards our anger stifles our voice, we have to stuff our anger along with the pain.
Some of us have more anger due to more victimization.
I hope this clarifies...it is not the anger that I am releasing...it is the raw hurt under the anger, does that make sense?
Just writing this out to you was a help for me.
Good question, thank you.
Lise
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The biggest lies were the ones from our M's, our value, beauty, worth, all going down in smoke,, ashes. Then, we lived the self fulfilling prophecy of our own doom.
Beautiful people believing they were ugly.
Lies are at the core of it and I want to replace them . I will and you can,too,Lise. Ami