Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: JustKathy on June 30, 2009, 06:49:15 PM
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I hope it’s okay to start a separate thread for this, but the subject is different from the earlier thread that I started, so I thought it might be best to do it this way. I hate that this is so long, but I have trouble writing short posts about complicated issues.
I’ve been seeing the same therapist for a few years now. She knows a lot about NPD, and sometimes her thoughts are really good, but other times, her advice makes me feel uncomfortable. She often advises me to do something (or NOT do something) that feels unnatural to me, or goes against my gut instincts.
As I've already posted in another thread, my estranged N mother is dying of cancer. She broke the entire family apart, so things have become quite complicated. I have never had a relationship with my younger brother (the golden child) because M wouldn't let him. Later, when he married an N himself, N wife (who is really, big time whacked out sick) pulled him even farther away.
I always felt that my sister has wanted to have a relationship with me, but again, completely under M’s control and told to stay away from me. So my relationship with her has never been more than yearly birthday cards and Christmas gifts.
A few days ago, I received something that blew me away. My sister wrote a very long letter, in which she opened up about everything. She told me details of her struggle with breast cancer, and talked about M’s impending death. She told me that M had insisted on having a new will drawn (even though community property laws leave everything to my dad, but perhaps she wanted a final act of control). Sis said that M does not want any money going to my brother’s N wife (battle of the narcissists here). So the will was altered from the original, in which he was the sole heir, to an even three-way split. (What a concept – treating all three of your children equally.)
My sister was given a slightly larger amount because she is executor of the will, so is being given extra money to cover related expenses. None of this matters to me, as I’ve known for 30 years that their precious boy would inherit everything, so I accepted long ago that I wouldn’t get a plug nickel, and am perfectly fine with that. What shook me was my sister apologizing to me for her receiving 10% more. She feels guilty over this and says she will share as much as she can with me. (At this point I burst into tears).
She also told me that she had been given all of M's jewelry, which she intends to split with me. In all honesty, I don’t want M’s jewelry laying around to remind me of her, but I thought it was quite a defiant act on my sister’s part, to do something that M would NEVER approve of. It seems that S is already feeling that she has been set free and will finally be able to live her life on her terms. She has been completely under M’s control, so for her to go against her wishes like this is MAJOR.
SO, here’s where the therapist comes in. My first thought after receiving this letter was to write back to my sister, and explain to her my situation, and why hubby and I will most likely be unable to visit M. My sister has always known that I’m on M’s you-know-what list, but doesn’t know the details, especially the details of the last few years, in which things have really escalated. My sister is the only one in the family with her head on straight enough to comprehend what I’m saying. I just feel that someone needs to know what is really going on, and she’s the only one who won’t put her fingers in her ears and go “la la la la la la la I can’t hear you.”
Anyway, my therapist says no, do not write back, unless it’s just a generic “thinking of you” card. She says that it would be selfish of me to write such a letter, and that I would only be burdening S with my problems. She says that I would be the only one to gain from this and that it would be inappropriate.
I’m torn. I really don’t agree. I KNOW that my sister would not feel that I was dumping on her. And you know, even if I AM the only one to benefit, so what? After 30 years of abuse, am I not entitled to do something that might help my emotional state?
This therapist also insists that I need to stop thinking of myself and start thinking of my father, and doing whatever is necessary to take care of him, even if it means eating crow and letting M get her finals digs in so she can die happy. She says to just suck it up, and do it for my dad, because she’s dying and can’t hurt me anymore. I don't believe that to be true either. I still go to bed in tears over things she did to me 30 years ago. If I go to visit her, she could plot something so hurtful that I’ll take it to bed with me every night for the rest of my life. Not only can she still hurt me now, but she can continue to hurt me after she’s gone.
Are there others on this board with a therapist? I just wonder if it’s common to feel conflicted over a therapist’s advice. I've tried to tell myself that a therapist isn't going to get it right ALL of the time. One side of me says that I can’t get by without counseling, while the other says that the therapist might actually be doing more harm than good. I’ve had several therapists over the years, and this woman is by far the best, yet still, I often leave feeling . . . I don’t know . . . not right. I mean, the fact that I’m sitting here feeling upset over some of the things my therapist has told me, that’s definitely not right.
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Dear Kathy
For me, every therapist caused me more harm than good.I trusted them, not myself.I got dependent on them. Many encouraged it.Others were too sick to help anyone.
I can not see myself trying therapy,again.
My M, a full blown NPD, is a practicing therapist in Boston. Who knows what she is like when they sit down next to her?
I have a Masters in Counseling and I could not have been a help to anyone, either. Just getting a degree has NOTHING to do with mental health. Remember that always. Trust yourself,Kathy.
Love to you, Ami
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Hi Kathy,
IMO, get rid of this therapist. What I have learned in my journey thru Nism is to ALWAYS listen to your voice within, your intuition, your gut feeling. Also, it sounds wrong (co-dependent?) that your therapist tells you to put your dad's interets above your own.
I'd gone thru a couple of therapists until I found one I jived with & had a good vibe with. Therapy has helped me immensely, but you got to find the right person. I also think it's good to read lots of books on Nism, co-dependency, boundaries & cognitive therapy: Nina Brown, Alice Miller, Susan Forward, Beverly Engel, John Bradshaw, "The Betrayal Bond", just to name a few.
RE: your sister, my suggestion is don't put anything in writing. Instead, call her & meet for lunch & talk to her in person. Maybe you can revive your relationship with her. Good luck.
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Hey Kathy,
I too was told not to tell my brother about the trauma-memories that I recovered. So far, I haven't. I have, however, gotten more involved in a "relationship" - of sorts - with my brother since my Dad died and we are settling the estate and keeping my Dad's business. Maybe some of my experience can shed some light on your T's advice.
My brother & I have different memories of "that time". He remembered things that I didn't. Both of us suffered pretty severe psychological & emotional issues because of it. My brother, K, didn't talk for maybe 6 months. At 10, he started acting like a 2 yr old, sucking his thumb again. When I brought up the idea of sharing what I remembered with him, I was warned against it. I think what I longed for, was that sense of deep validation - yes, those things happened and a connection with him that went back to a time way before that. As far as being selfish - I'd take that comment with a grain of salt. That desire to have someone who "knows" too... well, I think we all have that. But it does involve a lot of risk.
It's quite possible that your sister has different issues than you do and that her perception of your mom and the family are also different. More than possible, really - I'd say probably. When I was visiting with K, during my Dad's funeral, he did ask if I knew what was wrong with my Mom; she's lived with him and his family, for 10 years. I didn't say much; just told him to google Borderline Personality Disorder and see if the shoe fit. Since then, he's brought a couple things that bother him and dumped them on me, for explanations. I don't really give him much because - my god - he's 50 years old... he needs to work out his "stuff" without big sister holding his hand, ya know?
As we've gone through a series of business tasks and decisions, I've been trying to make sense of some of my brother's statements and behavior. On the surface, he's sabotaging the whole process and opening himself up to be taken advantage of. It would appear that he's ignorant of basic business principles and he refuses to make time for the things that are required to settle the estate in a timely fashion. He has problems with his marriage; his kids; and my mother. And now, he has to be engaged in this process with me.
And I've become a target for various accusations, ancient judgements, and probably... some of my mother's snide whispers and resentment, as well. But the fact is: my brother doesn't want the estate settled because then he has to face and deal with the issues that he now escapes by being a workaholic, frequent travel, and unwarranted long, late hours in the office. He doesn't see that the problem he's trying to "escape" is his own emotional baggage... and that he's not interacting or relating to his household, at all effectively. It is how he copes. And this estate/business is a huge threat to that style of coping. (and yes, that's my own subjective opinion... but his behavior is being noticed by the trustee who is trying to find a way to work with K's passive-aggressive approach).
Once I realized that, I started to distance myself from him a bit. He is trying to get "big sister" to tell him what he should do; help him deal with all this emotional baggage... sort out what's wrong. I don't dare take that on, because I can't be responsible for his work on himself. He may think of me, as being the mom-role that I used to have to fulfill back then... but I just can't allow myself to do that again. I have already told him, therapy is a good thing.
I really do believe that. Each of us has to do this work on our own. And because our emotions - and how we chose/choose to act on them - are so very unique to each of us, it really is safer to do this alone. I feel I'm back to walking on eggshells, interacting with my brother. He needs to get to healing his own way... and I can't do it for him. At the same time, I have to carefully protect my own boundaries, so that I'm not drawn into the same old FOO patterns, roles and dysfunction.
So maybe that's why your T warned against telling all. I would modify that warning a bit. Without being specific, you may be able to allude to events or situations that explain your absence and if your sister truly is sympathetic, she'll understand. Take it one small baby step at a time and assess her responses. The advice about your father... well... I think you should ask your T to explain more. I don't know that part of the story... so I can't comment. If you have had a good relationship with her up to this point, give her the benefit of the doubt and also give her the opportunity to explain what you're not understanding about her advice. She might just have been having a rough day...
... or you might be a point in your work, where she's challenging you. So, ya sorta gotta ask her, right? And talk about how you feel about her advice/warning. I know my T "pushed" me a few a times... and those pushes were absolutely extremely valuable to me, down the road.
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Kathy,
I misread your post & missed the part about sharing past trauma with your sister. For what it's worth, I think Amber's response is excellent, especially re: the sibling relationship: how each sibling must work out their own emotional baggage & each sibling experiences past events & parents differently.
Amber,
Sorry to hear your father passed & that you are now dealing with the estate. I'm in the same boat re: my mother's estate.
"I feel I'm back to walking on eggshells, interacting with my brother. He needs to get to healing his own way... and I can't do it for him. At the same time, I have to carefully protect my own boundaries, so that I'm not drawn into the same old FOO patterns, roles and dysfunction."
Oh, yes, me too.
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Thank you all SO much for the wonderful advice. I probably do need to drop this therapist. I keep trying to convince myself that I need her, because after ten or so different attempts at therapy, this one has been the most knowledgeable. But yes, she is upsetting me a lot in telling me to place my father's needs above my own, especially considering that my father did absolutely nothing to stop my mother’s abuse, and in some cases, helped to enable her.
You know, when you’re the child of an N, you grow up believing that you MUST respect authority figures, even if they’re wrong, and this is causing a good deal of conflict. My brain is telling me, “she’s a doctor, she knows what is right,” but my heart is crying and saying “no, I can’t do this.” I’ve told her several times that father was in many ways an accomplice, and her response has been “Maybe he wasn’t a good parent, but he was better than your Mother.” No. Not good enough. I’m seeing T again in a few weeks, so maybe I need to really hash this one out with her, and if I leave the office feeling like crap again, call it quits.
As for my sister, unfortunately, snail mail is the only thing that she responds to. She crawled into a shell back in high school when M starting abusing me, and has lived completely under M’s control ever since. She won’t answer the phone and won’t respond to email. She lives in another state, so I’m not able to meet with her in person, but even if I were able to, she wouldn’t go out without M’s permission, or without a parent present. She’s like a little child – 47 years old, but lives with her doll collection, has no friends, and has never dated – all the result of M’s control. She bought the house two doors down from my parents and relies on them for everything. They care for her as if she were still in sixth grade. My father goes over several times a week and takes care of the house, her vehicle maintenance, mows the lawn, you name it. This is why I was so stunned to receive an honest letter from her. This is the first time in over thirty years that she has acted independently. But Amber is probably right, that S’s perception of the family is much different from mine, so I have to consider that.
Ami, I can’t believe that your N mother is a practicing therapist. That’s just plain frightening, and a real eye-opener for me . . . just because you have a degree and a license doesn’t make one qualified.
About 15 years ago I went to a therapist who knew nothing about NPD. She didn’t believe anything I told her about my mother, and labeled me a “drama queen.” I’ve never gotten over that. I’ve stuck with the current T because she’s the closest I’ve ever come to a good match, but maybe I’m making a mistake in settling for “close” rather than “good.”
Seriously, I have gotten the best, most amazing advice from the people on this board.
Ann, thanks for the book recommendations. I have several books, but none that are on your list. I’m always looking for new and better books on the subject.
Amber, I think your advice is good about writing to my sister without dumping too much on her. Since she took such a huge leap in writing to me, I feel like I owe her some kind of response. She’s probably getting the worst of this right now. Since she lives next door, most of the mess is going to end up on her shoulders, and she’s recovering from breast cancer. My heart is just breaking for her. I hope that M's death finally sets her free, and allows her to grow up and be an adult, for her own sake. One day my father will be gone too, and she'll be unable to function. I am planning on moving back to CA next year, so at that point I'll be able to be more physically available to her.
My brother is a selfish piece of crap who lives with a crazy N wife and only cares about money and material things. He’ll distance himself while M is ill, especially now that the will has been changed. If there’s nothing in it for him, he won’t come around. I hope M is happy. She created that. Spoiled him rotten and taught him that life was all taking and no giving. Care for his dying mother for FREE? Not a chance.
What an effed up family she raised.
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Hi Just Kathy,
Just a few thoughts on this topic which is dear to my heart.
Yes, sometimes therapists do more harm than good. I wrote about my own therapy here: http://voicelessness.com/dreams,_imagined_dreams.html
In my experience it’s very hard to find a good therapist. I have known many in my career, and the vast majority I would not send a family member or friend to. But some are excellent and life saving.
I give very little advice to my patients. (Although sometimes, I must say, I offer excellent advice to my patients--on things like how to fix a toilet, or what’s wrong with their car. And sometimes they offer very good advice to me on other things.) In my experience, the other “a” word: attachment is far more important especially when it comes to adult children of narcissistic parents. Advice does not establish or re-establish a person’s place in the world or help them feel comfortable in their own skin. Attachment does. Attachment depends not only on what kind of therapist a person is, but what kind of human being they are. There are excellent recent threads on the topic of attachment on the Board (thanks, Phoenix Rising and others!).
I can’t say whether or not your therapist is worth keeping, but to me it would depend on the quality of your attachment to her and hers to you.
Best,
Richard
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Hi Kathy,
What strikes me as wrong with your therapist is that she is encouraging you to not validate your feelings and take care of yourself. Isn't that what it means to grow up in a disfunctional home where the childrens needs are ignored. When i was growing up I learned what was expected of me. That in order to survive I needed to suck it up and be the "good daughter". i had to bury my feelings and go with the flow or else face the possiblity of abandonment and rejection. There comes a time when you realize how wrong this is. At this point i dont feel that you owe your father anything. He needs to face the consequences of how he raised you. His support was not there when you needed him and now you need to care of yourself and undo the damage and not be subjected to or guilted into facing further pain.
I was so happy to read your post on another thread that you have been healing some of your childhood losses by treating yourself to things you couldn't have. I like the idea of re-parenting myself. i think it is healing to think of my subconscience voice as my inner child. As you know i have the same delemma of having my N mom in the hospital. As i stuggle to do the "right thing" i picture this child pulling my hand and saying "I dont want to be here". it is up to me now to listen to that voice and take of care that child because one else will.
My inner child, she is my subconscience saying this isnt right for me. The more I listen and take care of myself the happier I am becoming.
You have the right to take care of you Kathy. It is a god given right, given to you the day you were born. No one else will do it for you and you dont need to justify, defend or explain yourself to anyone. You were and are a great person!
I hear in your posts what caring and sensitive person you are . That is why it can be a stuggle with that "inner critical parent" in your head and it certainly doesnt help when you have a therapist trying to play similar tapes for you. Try to remember that you were always a "good daughter" and you were programmed to do the "right thing". You were a smart girl who learned to survive.. You dont have to follow that programming now. You can honor your feelings and be true to you.
I am so glad that you are so feeling, it means that you are not shutting off and are staying very much awake in this process of healing.
ps. thank you for your warm welcome on you last thread. i was going to comment more but i wasnt sure how to do that without opening a floodgate of my own issues that would take over your post. LOL. I was really happy to soak up all the wisdom that was shared by all the wonderful people here, so thanks for posting about your mom.
Hugs,
Cathy
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I think if we, children of N's , can attach to s/one we can heal. Attachment is so poweful. It is like water to a dying man. I have been able to attach and I am coming alive like a deflated balloon which finally has filled with air.
I think we can heal if we can attach. Ami
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Kathy:
All the responses - and something you said - are prompting me to warn you again about getting involved with your sister. I'm not suggesting that you avoid her - just be very, very careful of yourself. What you said about your feelings of compassion for her, are one of the ways I know I've been "hooked" into old FOO crap. It's like walking through a minefield filled with fun-house mirrors to try to interact with my brother or my mother. I can have the best intentions in the world... and still find myself stung with a "gotcha". I bounce back from those better now; but ya know what? They still hurt.
One of my weak areas - still - is feeling as though I need to... I have to... step in, fix things, protect others, even from their selves, show others how to do things, put things right - no matter how much it costs me emotionally. I guess I have the "need to be needed" complex. Knowing this helps sometimes; but when that's combined with a deep-seated belief that "I don't matter".... LOL!! I'm a lamb to the slaughter, really. (This reflex was a positive when I was a 24/7 tech support person; or maybe it just kept me trapped in that.)
One thing I try to do is decide BEFORE I have to interact, is just when/where I will draw a boundary for myself. This isn't always possible, but even a rough idea is better than none. Identify for myself, when my radar will be programmed to give the alert to not commit myself... to say I'll think about it... give myself a chance to distance myself, reassess the situation and whether I really want to be involved - and if it feels safe to do so. Especially when people have shown me, that they are so needy (or greedy) themselves that they won't respect my limits - a boundary - on how much help I'm offering.
I had to address the lack of "sense of self" - or maybe ego is the right word here - first, before I could start to work on letting go that reflex to do for others what they more appropriately need to do for themselves. It's like I didn't have an ego... a part of "me" that could balance taking care of myself and caring about & for others.... something that usually develops in the early attachment bonding process with "mom". It's not that I didn't have the ability... more that I wasn't self-aware enough of my needs to set appropriate boundaries with others. And of course, my FOO role was to sacrifice myself for the needs of others, which also made the scapegoat. And yes, in the early stages of that "repair" work, I did have to get "selfish" and it felt "wrong"; wasn't at all comfortable. The idea I got, was that perhaps your T is thinking that you may be able to form a "good enough" attachment with your father and that this might be a valuable milestone or asset for you, even though you consider him part of the "problem". My dad sure was part of the "problem"... but I'm very glad to have had the little that we were able to get to in our relationship, before he died. Something to think about, anyway, even if you don't pursue it now.
These boundaries and attachments - they aren't static, either. That was and still is the hardest thing for me... they are moving "targets"... and each and every interaction has different boundaries. It's a lot of work still, for me. I don't always get it "right", and there isn't always a "right" choice - I just do the best I can to balance what I need/want with what the other person needs/wants. If you've ever seen tai chi Push Hands... this practice/competition demonstrates that fluidity of boundaries, physically. I've been able to take the elements of that practice: listening, sensing, rootedness, intent not force... and apply it to my work on interpersonal boundaries. Each push hands "player" is required to take care of his/her partner - the goal is not to hurt the partner/opponent... only to unbalance him and thereby gain the advantage in the situation.
It's been very, very helpful to me to connect push hands practice with protecting myself and creating FLEXIBLE boundaries with other people... at least now, I know they are flexible! :D
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In taking care of my very elderly and then dying Nmom, the challenge for me (for 10 years) was finding the difference between compassion and codependency.
Some days, I think to myself, I paid too high a price. My life swerved so far away from dreams of my own.
Other days, I think, I am glad I sustained compassion for her despite her Nism. Because her Nism was not her fault.
But...now I (hopefully) have decades more to live.
I'll be sorting out for some time, I think, how I feel about that decade.
It's possible it taught me things I wouldn't have learned any other way. (Soooo sick of "learning experiences.")
I'm only 59. I could have a creative resurgence. I could still do things that fulfill a sense of purpose.
Yeah, for too long her wellbeing was my purpose. I had only the model of my father's devotion.
Then again, it was an inspiring model.
Very confusing.
My childhood Christianity taught me to give like that.
And left me deeply burned out, so it'll be another year or so before I feel truly recovered. And maybe I never will be.
(I hope my own brain hasn't evaporated under the stress...sometimes my memory issues scare me.)
Just rambling.
Hops
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Kathy,
Again, I agree with Amber & she describes it so well:
“One of my weak areas - still - is feeling as though I need to... I have to... step in, fix things, protect others, even from their selves, show others how to do things, put things right - no matter how much it costs me emotionally.”
Try to avoid allowing your compassion to get you hooked into your sister’s neediness, which might turn you into a fixer. Even though you may feel sad about your sister’s situation, realize that you cannot fix it or her, that is work which your sister must do. Your sister may or may not be capable of doing her own “healing work” & whatever the case is, you must accept it. It hurts to watch someone you love suffer, especially when you see ways that they can change their life, but they can’t or refuse to do. In this sense, we have to mourn their inability to change their life & acknowledge our sadness over their inability to change. We have to learn to let them be who they are at this point in time & accept them as they are.
Now that our family members are all adults, each person must do their own healing work to fulfill their own needs. When we try to do another person’s healing work, we enter into the “old FOO crap” of enmeshment, co-dependency, controlling, manipulation, boundary violations, etc.
I suppose this is why your T suggested just sending a neutral card saying “Thinking about you”. I suppose the most you can do for your sister is to let her know that you love her. Perhaps she may blossom on her own & if she does, you can support her, but don’t forget your boundaries, don’t try to fix or control her or enmesh with her.
“One thing I try to do is decide BEFORE I have to interact, is just when/where I will draw a boundary for myself. This isn't always possible, but even a rough idea is better than none. Identify for myself, when my radar will be programmed to give the alert to not commit myself... to say I'll think about it... give myself a chance to distance myself, reassess the situation and whether I really want to be involved - and if it feels safe to do so. Especially when people have shown me, that they are so needy (or greedy) themselves that they won't respect my limits - a boundary - on how much help I'm offering.”
This is really important: When interacting with people (family or other), always be conscious of your boundaries, especially when dealing with needy people, who (consciously or unconsciously) often try to suck us dry.
Amber gives a beautiful description of boundaries & how to do them/how they work:
“These boundaries and attachments - they aren't static, either. That was and still is the hardest thing for me... they are moving "targets"... and each and every interaction has different boundaries. It's a lot of work still, for me. I don't always get it "right", and there isn't always a "right" choice - I just do the best I can to balance what I need/want with what the other person needs/wants. If you've ever seen tai chi Push Hands... this practice/competition demonstrates that fluidity of boundaries, physically. I've been able to take the elements of that practice: listening, sensing, rootedness, intent not force... and apply it to my work on interpersonal boundaries. Each push hands "player" is required to take care of his/her partner - the goal is not to hurt the partner/opponent... only to unbalance him and thereby gain the advantage in the situation.”
“I did have to get "selfish" and it felt "wrong"; wasn't at all comfortable.”
Yes: When dealing with a dysfunctional family or dysfunctional people, we may feel selfish, wrong or uncomfortable when we use our boundaries, but, that’s OK. Life Coach Cheryl Richardson describes this as “Let me disappoint you”. We need to learn to feel OK about disappointing others. If we can feel comfortable with disappointing others, we may lose our urge to “fix”.
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Wow! Thank you, everyone, for your amazing advice and words of wisdom. I can't tell you how much this means to me. I felt so lost and alone, and having this board to come to, well, I feel like I've been given a big giant hug from friends who really, really "get it."
I'm going to print out this entire thread and read it to my husband tonight. He has been attending therapy with me since M's diagnosis, and I know some of this information will be valuable to him as well.
Bless you all for being there for me. Reaching out for help, and having people reach back . . . I just don't have the words to express how much you have helped and comforted me.
You guys are the BEST. :D
Kathy
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I woke up this morning with this horrible feeling in my gut that I can't shake. It occurs to me that my sister may have written to me and told me the details of my parents' new will because M TOLD HER TO. OMG, why didn't I see this before?
I may be wrong, but hubby has been telling me over and over that S's letter is VERY uncharacteristic, and that there was no logical explanation for her suddenly breaking away from M's control to write me a letter, especially a letter about details of a will, which is completely moot, as community property laws leave all assets to my father.
I honestly don't know what to think, but I'm just grateful to those of you who warned me to be careful in writing back to my sister. It also explains my therapist cautioning me to keep my reply neutral (that wasn't the reason she cited, but she may have been thinking it). I really hate that I have these thoughts, but I'm just not able to trust. I'm dealing with family members who have been controlled like puppets for decades. If my mother had instructed my sister to make sure that I knew about the re-writing of the will, S would have had the letter in the mail that afternoon. At this point, I think it's best to not confide in my sister (if ever) until M is gone. If I write her a letter with anything more than a simple thank you, it will be in M's hands within minutes of arrival. I just know it. Even though she has a choice to keep her affairs private, my sister shows M everything because she's been trained to do so. She's afraid of her. "If I keep a secret from Mom, I'll get in trouble." A six-year-old in a 47-year-old body. :(
Kathy
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Dear Kathy
I have a strong gut response to what you wrote. Reject if it does not fit. What I see is that you were trained to question your gut feelings. You 'know" down deep that this horrible thing is happening but you don't trust yourself and it is too awful to truly accept that your family is THAT sick.
I have been there a million times with my NF, NM and N ish H.
My feeling is that if you feel it, trust it.
I am so sorry that we have to endure families that would test the mental health of the strongest person.
My love goes out to you, ((Kathy)). Ami
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Reject if it does not fit.
You're right. You're TOTALLY right. Yes, I was trained to follow orders and never question my gut instincts, but every time I've gone with my gut, I've been right.
My father called this morning to wish hubby a happy birthday, and said that M is doing so well that no one can tell she is sick, and that she was going to do some things today with my sister. That's when I realized that as long as she is of sound mind, she will use it to her advantage to get to me. And she WILL use my sister as an unwitting accomplice. M will be able to die happy if she knows that she hurt me, and turned the entire family against me (even more than she already has). She's going to work towards that goal as long as she remains lucid, so I have to be aware of that and NOT let my guard down.
Thanks again for your help. :)
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LOL. The smileys on this board sure are creepy looking.
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Hi Kathy:
In reading this thread, IMO, your therapist was out of line in giving you specific instructions on how to interact with your sister.
It is my understanding that a job of a good therapist is to help the patient find their own solution. They do this by facilitating the thought process so that the patient can sort through their own feelings and emotions and hopefully arrive at a conclusion.
IMO, dictating what you should do sounds like a narcissistic trait. Some doctors are into power tripping. IMO, it's not healthy.
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I am so glad you benefitted from my post.It is so hard to follow your heart.I am struggling SO hard to trust myself.It is HELL trying to recover fron my N parents erasing of my sense of self.
I can tell you understand ((((Kathy)))). Love Ami
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It is my understanding that a job of a good therapist is to help the patient find their own solution.
That was really perfectly said. Yes, that's what I want my therapist to do. Be a sounding board, offer me guidance, but not tell me specifically what to do. I think it's especially wrong when the therapist only knows a very small amount of a 40 year history of abuse. She doesn't know the people involved beyond what I've told her, so to say that I have to take care of my father because he was the lesser of two evils . . . what? In the past, she has also doubted things that I knew in my heart to be true. For example, I told her a few years ago that I KNEW in my heart that my brother, the golden child, would be sole heir of their will and that I would be excluded. She told me there was NO WAY that my father would do that to me. Well guess what? He did. I just found out this week that I was right. I WAS excluded from the will. T should have never drawn that conclusion.
I'm going to see her again next week, and I guess this will be the final test for me, if she's going to end up making a really painful situation even worse.
I got another letter from my sister today and I'm sitting here in tears, totally confused, and not knowing how to respond. I'm going to have to lean on my therapist for guidance, and if I feel that she's leading me astray, not go back. I'm going to take hubby with me for a second set of ears, because at this point, I'm so hysterical, I may not hear everything correctly. This letter I got today . . . I don't know if it's sincere on S's part or if the whole thing was orchestrated, but my gut instinct is that S is being used as a tool. She went on at length (again) about how my father had to take my brother out to lunch and break the news to him that the will had been changed to an EQUAL split between the three children. Not that he was being shut out, but having to SHARE with his sisters (as it should have been all along) because they don't want 100% of their money falling into the hands of his crazy wife. I'm supposed to be choked up and grateful that I've been added to the will, not because they love me, but out of retaliation towards my SIL.
She also sent me 1/2 of M's jewelry. Included with the jewelry were photographs of everything, and an inventory list as "proof" that I was receiving my fair share (and we're talking maybe $100 worth of stuff here). There's no way that was S's idea. This is M guilting me. Part of the ramped up smear campaign. She's no doubt telling everyone that I'm selfish and greedy, hence the need for proof. In all honesty, I don't even want the stuff. I wanted her love, not her d@mn jewelry.
S also sent me a bunch of family photos, since I haven't seen them in so long. Yeah, like I want a photo of my brother, who has never wanted anything to do with me, with the exception of Christmas day, when he got gifts out of me. My S has NEVER sent me family photos, so again, I say I'm being played. I think S is also being played. She's a trained puppy, and probably doing what's she's been told. If my therapist tells me otherwise, or gives specific instructions on how to respond, I will seriously question her abilities as a counselor. I could sense some personal frustration in S's letter, so I know she's confused and conflicted. She's probably equally frustrated about some things, like finding out that she was executor of the will, but receiving no money. BUT her need to obey M is too strong and overrides her personal feelings. So, even sensing her conflicted feelings, I have to try and resist opening up to her prematurely. The smarter half of me knows that she is too deep under M's control and will report back everything I say, so I have to put up a shield and protect myself.
I'm sorry to be venting like crazy here, but if I don't vent, I'm going to explode. I know this is going to start getting worse and worse. If M doesn't get the desired response from me, she's going to kick it up a notch and start sending letters to hubby instead. He's already told me that if he receives any letters from M, that they won't be opened until after she's gone. This is SICK. She's using her death as a weapon. Rather than make productive use of her remaining time, she's going to waste it trying to stick it to me. She'll be able to die happy if she knows that she's hurt me, so I have to be VERY careful in how I respond to calls and letters from both S and my dad.
God, I could just SCREAM.
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I love the idea of not opening the letters...
is that something you can do?
Courage,
Hops
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If it were up to me, I'd open the letters. I don't have the strength to set them aside and not know what's inside. But my husband can do it. He's not being hurt by my mother the way I am, so if he says he'll hide them until after she's gone, he'll do it.
I'm certain that the letters are coming because she has sent him emails in the past when her emails to me didn't have their intended effect. She would send emails trying to push my buttons, and when I didn't reply, she'd email him with a sad story about how I had abandoned her, and try to turn him against me. So we've both seen it before. It's coming, I just know it is.
Kathy
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Dear Kathy
Do you know of Alice Miller? I can only understand her ideas gradually. When I do grasp them, they bring deep healing.
She says that the N parent does not mirror us so we don't trust in a solid sense of our own self. We flounder.We do not feel definite and confident of our feelings and ideas.
I think a good therapist would help you find YOU.If your therapy is taking you AWAY from you, it could not be good.
Alice would tell you to keep mining for your own authentic feelings. Then,muster up all your courage and trust yourself not someone else even if they are an authority i.e. therapist, parent.
I am trying to do this in my life and it is very painful but I do feel a more solid self so I must be on the right track.
I am glad you are on the board, Kathy. You add so much! Love to you, Ami
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JustKathy link=topic=8789.msg139511#msg139511 date=1247181331]
In the past, she has also doubted things that I knew in my heart to be true. For example, I told her a few years ago that I KNEW in my heart that my brother, the golden child, would be sole heir of their will and that I would be excluded. She told me there was NO WAY that my father would do that to me. Well guess what? He did. I just found out this week that I was right. I WAS excluded from the will. T should have never drawn that conclusion.
I agree. Using money as a manipulative tool and excluding children from a will is a very common tactic of a pathological narcissist and a few other PDs.
There's no way that was S's idea. This is M guilting me. Part of the ramped up smear campaign. She's no doubt telling everyone that I'm selfish and greedy, hence the need for proof. In all honesty, I don't even want the stuff. I wanted her love, not her d@mn jewelry.
]S also sent me a bunch of family photos, since I haven't seen them in so long. Yeah, like I want a photo of my brother, who has never wanted anything to do with me, with the exception of Christmas day, when he got gifts out of me. My S has NEVER sent me family photos, so again, I say I'm being played. I think S is also being played. She's a trained puppy,
This also sounds familiar to me. Trust your gut, Kathy.
This is SICK. She's using her death as a weapon.
That seems to be another common tactic associated with several PDs.
I am sorry you are going through this. You have the right to exert your individuality and to be your own person. No one should even desire to take that right away from anyone.
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I agree. Using money as a manipulative tool and excluding children from a will is a very common tactic of a pathological narcissist and a few other PDs.
Something occurred to hubby last night, and I think he’s right. He thinks that all this business with the will might be aimed at manipulating my brother, more so than hurting me. Ever since my brother married his N wife, M has been on a mission to eliminate her. I really think my brother’s wife (who is an absolute N monster), managed to usurp my position as #1 target of M’s darts.
We’ve been hearing non-stop about this business with the will, and stories of how my father had to take brother out to lunch, and have this sad father-son talk, and tell him that the will was being re-written because of his N wife, etc. It doesn’t make sense to me, because as long as my father is alive, the will is moot. It has nothing to do with M’s death, or does it?
Last night hubby mentioned that my father said something to him on the phone, to the effect that brother “knows that he can still make his mother happy before she dies.” OMG. Could it be that my brother has been given an ultimatum? Dump the N wife, and get re-instated in the will? M would do this. She absolutely would. If she could have one dying wish, I KNOW it would be to get rid of her DIL. And she’ll probably succeed, because my brother loves, in order of importance, 1) Money, 2) Mom, 3) Wife. My father probably took him out (on M’s orders) and told him that M was crying, and was going to die with a broken heart, and guilt guilt yada yada.
Oh geez, I won’t be at all surprised if the next call I get isn’t my father joyfully announcing that my brother is getting a divorce. I’d certainly be happy to see this witch go, though not under these circumstances. M’s manipulations have always been so cruel, and so vile. I do believe hubby is right – this would be a tremendous victory for her.
Ami, I’m not familiar with Alice Miller but will look her up. I like to read as many different authors as possible. Even though each may have different theories, I find it quite interesting that most experts agree that the traits of N’s are similar very identifiable. That helps me a lot, to read many books, where all are saying, yes, ALL N’s do this. It comforts me to know that I’m not alone, though saddens me to know how many of us have suffered. Apparently, the numbers are much greater than I had ever imagined. I think we just don’t hear about it more because a lot of N victims don’t know what the problem is, so never seek help or counseling, hence, it goes undocumented.
Even after M is gone, I will probably continue to research NPD for the rest of my life. I will always be on a quest to try and understand the disorder – how she got it, and why I became the target.
Kathy
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Hops, on your post above, I should add that the idea of having hubby pre-screen correspondence from M was actually a suggestion from my therapist, and I think one of few really good ideas that she's had. It came up last Christmas, because M has been slipping nasty notes into our gifts. My dad goes out and buys the gifts, and M wraps them and slips the notes in, then gives the package back to my dad to take to the post office (M doesn't drive). So no one knows about these nasty notes except me, hubby, and M. I was at the breaking point, not wanting to return the gifts, because it would hurt my dad, who had NO idea of what she was doing.
Last year my therapist suggested that hubby open everything, and pre-screen it, to shelter me from any cruel surprises. If he found a nasty note, he could decide if he wanted to keep it from me, or read it first, to determine whether or not I could handle it. It's very hard for me, because I'm too curious and I WANT to know what's in those letters. But she had that suggestion, and we did try it last Christmas, and I think it helped. I hate that I have to have someone to shield me, but if it works, it's worth trying.
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Definitely can do more harm than good. Been there, got the T shirt.
But I did learn important things with each one.
Isn't it weird that a therapist is telling you what to do. I thought good therapists helped you to work out what you want to do - by looking at the reasons 'why'. If you understand 'why' you want to do something (deep down, unconscious, subconcious motivators), then you've a better chance of working out whether or not your actions are appropriate in the current circumstances. I can do the former, but I've never quite got as far as the latter. That's where I always get stuck.
Recently came across a brilliant book about 'betrayal and the therapeutic relationship'. All those little betrayals are actually mega big ones.
But each relationship has made me stronger even tho I've been left in a puddle of helpless, hopeless, trapped rage by the betrayals of each one. Each one was 'merely human'. I would never choose to be a teacher or a therapist because I do not have the emotional stamina to do what I believe a therapist or teacher should. But those who do what they 'should' are actually few and far between. The rest are hopeful also-rans.
As are parents!!
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Isn't it weird that a therapist is telling you what to do.
Yeah, it is. The darned thing is, up until now, I never questioned it. She's an licensed therapist, has a doctorate, seems to know a lot about NPD, so in my mind, of course she's right. But if she's right, why I am sometimes coming home from my sessions more upset and confused than when I went in? Not upset at my situation with N, but upset at HER.
Even before M was diagnosed as terminal, my T has always told me to do things that my father had asked me to do (like send M birthday cards and such), with the reason of "you have to do this for your father." On my last visit, I asked her point blank, WHY? Why, when he has been a lousy parent himself, being the trained puppy and believing M's smear tactics. Her response, was that even though he was a lousy parent, he was better than M. THAT was a kick in the head for me. He's the lesser of two evils, but I should still put his feelings ahead of mine?
When I see her next week, I'm going to try to assert myself (for some reason, something I've always been afraid to do with a therapist), and confront her again on this one. This time I have new knowledge that my lifelong suspicion was true - I had been excluded (by HIM) from the will. If she still insists that I try to understand that he was brainwashed, bla bla bla, well . . . maybe it's time to go without a therapist for now. I honestly don't have the strength or the desire anymore to search for yet another new one, go through the process of telling my lengthy family history to someone new, start all over again . . . it's just too much. I get better advice from books and boards like this one. With the impending death of my N mother, this is a bad time to be without a therapist, but on the other hand, I'm thinking that being with the wrong therapist could screw me up a lot worse.
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What I don't 'get' is why you have to do anything for anyone's benefit? What's this therapist's fixation with you being a 'good girl' for your father??? What do YOU need from your father? If you don't need anything, they you don't need to be 'good' - unless you want to. ;-) If you want something from your father then perhaps you need to keep in his good books (and decide whether it's worth the candle).
I'd make a great 'tell-you-what-to-do' therapist - and that's why I'm not one!! ;-)
If you need her understanding of NPD - well, maybe that's the upside and she's worth keeping hold of. Maybe she understand NPD because she has the same parenting issues. Whatever...I think this therapist is working through some of her own issues through you. And she may not like to know that, so tread carefully. Perhaps just make discussion about your father 'off-limits'. Therapy should be about feelings and thoughts not what you do on a day to day basis anyway. Maybe you are asking her what you should do and she's not able to resist telling you what *she* would do. ;-)
Good luck!!
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On my last visit, I asked her point blank, WHY? Why, when he has been a lousy parent himself, being the trained puppy and believing M's smear tactics. Her response, was that even though he was a lousy parent, he was better than M. THAT was a kick in the head for me. He's the lesser of two evils, but I should still put his feelings ahead of mine?
In my opinion, the therapist, by dictating to you, appears to be exhibiting a narcisissistic trait. I wonder if this is rooted and a dynamic with one of her own children or a parent. Some times people validate their choices by convincing others to make the same choice.
I think it is very basic that in order for therapy to work you need to have a rapport with the therapist.
I do think you should confront her because there is an outside possible that her behavior is designed to provoke you to find your own voice by confronting her. Just a guess.
But, if you continue to feel anxious or upset for too much longer, I can't see how that would be healthy. Just some personal opinions.
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My experience with some therapists is that as long as you have a checkbook, they will not let YOU go. You have to make the move, not ask them to approve . Ami
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I DO have to assert myself. Probably should have done it a long time ago, but that's always been a problem area for me - with doctors, therapists, employers, other family members. I was taught to always do what I was told, so asserting myself does not come easily for me. Subsequently, it's pretty easy for a bad doctor or therapist to get away with harming me.
One thing I'm pretty certain of, is that this therapist doesn't believe everything I'm telling her. I think she feels that I'm over-exaggerating a little. I've had this problem with other therapists. Some of the things my N mom did were SO whacked out, it is a little hard to believe, but anyone familiar with NPD should know what these people are capable of.
About three months ago she did something that really bothered me, and bothers me still. I went to see her to discuss my brother's schizophrenic/N wife. SIL is one crazy scary woman, and I discovered that she had been monitoring my Internet activity, probably for years (hence I have a different user name on this board than when I originally joined). I found out after opening a Twitter account. She showed up as a "follower" after a few short hours, and since I registered using a nickname, it wasn't like she just stumbled across me. She was searching. Anyway, in the process, I saw HER Twitter page, and some of the horrifying comments she was posting, like wanting to kill the mailman, kill her neighbor, bashing family members, and so on. Most of her posts were things that would come off as joking around to a stranger, but knowing she's schizophrenic, and has the potential to be dangerous, I found it quite unsettling.
So I went to see my therapist, and hubby went with me, just because he was off that day. I was telling T some of the things I had read on SIL's Twitter page, when she turned to my husband, and said, "Did YOU see any of this?" He promptly told her that yes, he HAD seen it. But I was stunned. She was looking for a witness to corroborate my story.
What's this therapist's fixation with you being a 'good girl' for your father??? What do YOU need from your father?
That's what I don't get. What do I need from my father? Well, his love would have been nice, but I've been trying to get that for 50 years, and so far, no luck. He's certainly not going to start loving me now because I send my mother a card, or called her, or whatever. Inheritance? Nope. I was only added to the will last week, and only as an act of retaliation against my brother's crazy wife. AND, I have not actually seen said will, so, nuff said. And even if I were in the will, I don't WANT the money if it's not being given to me as act of love, but rather to stick it to someone else.
It almost seems like that question needs to be directed at the therapist. What does SHE think I want or need from my father? How does SHE think I'll benefit from putting him first. Maybe I need to turn this around on her and get those answers. Whatever it is she seems to think I need, well, I don't need it.
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Dear Kathy
I think you want to direct your own life based on your own feelings. It is hard for us to trust ourselves but I think that is the way out.I think we need some other person to see us and validate that we are human not "bad"but the person has to mirror you,not push you to be different. The goal is for you to find the real you and trust it NOT make the therapist feel good about herself. That was what we had to do in childhood.
That is my take on it. Love , Ami
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So I went to see my therapist, and hubby went with me, just because he was off that day. I was telling T some of the things I had read on SIL's Twitter page, when she turned to my husband, and said, "Did YOU see any of this?" He promptly told her that yes, he HAD seen it. But I was stunned. She was looking for a witness to corroborate my story.
There was something hugely refreshing about the way you expressed this experience. You have no fear or confusion about what happened.
Will you ask her WHY she felt the need to ask your husband? Will you establish the truth of what you observed ie that she did not actually believe you without corroboration? And how long has this cynicism been driving her therapeutic interventions...?
I think you must have stimulated a memory of an experience of mine but I haven't quite managed to pin it down yet.
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Hi Kathy,
I'm curious, now, about what your T's therapeutic philosophy is. Is she CBT based? Jungian? Freudian?
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Wow, I have NO idea. When we moved to Tucson, we got a list of psychs and therapists that were covered under our insurance plan. The first one was no good because she didn't believe what I was telling her about my N mom (sadly, this has been the case with almost every therapist I've seen). Then I tried the second one, and this woman said right away, "oh, NPD." She knew exactly what I was talking about, which was HUGE for me since I have had SO many therapists who didn't even know what NPD was, outside of seeing it in the occasional trade journal.
Her business card says "For the practice of general and medical psychology." Honestly, I didn't know that there were different philosophies to therapy, so have never given it a second thought.
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Will you ask her WHY she felt the need to ask your husband?
Rosencrantz, if the opportunity arises, yeah, I think I WILL tell her that it bothered me. I haven't witnessed much of this cynicism before, but then, I'm usually alone in the sessions. Hubby rarely comes with me, but his being there definitely prompted her to ask him if he were a witness. I should have said something right then and there, but it didn't really hit me until I got home. I started thinking about the session, and the light bulb suddenly went off . . . "Hey, she didn't believe me. WTF? She asked hubby if I were telling the truth."
In the past, I have taken her photocopies of emails and letters from psycho SIL and N mother, so she has seen the actual correspondence and KNOWS what they are both capable of. She has these copies in my file, so unless she's overbooked and just forgot, there was no reason for her to doubt me. It's not like I've been walking in there with wild stories every week. I have taken her the proof almost every time, mainly because I thought she would have a better understanding of the situation of she read N's letters herself, rather than listen to my interpretation.
I definitely need to say something. I feel weird confiding in her now, if she's doubting what I say.
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I suppose it's possible she had a genuine reason for asking him eg to see if he was supportive or involved.
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I'm going out on a hunch-limb and this might be TOTALLY off, so please ignore this fantasy if so...
Is it possible you are "mind-reading" your T, in the sense that you're attributing suspicion and/or cynicism to something which, on its face, was just a question to someone who was also in the room?
Was she possibly simply trying to engage him, because you were present as a couple?
Could it have been a form of courtesy?
Could she have been trying to include him in the time? In the process? In the conversation?
IOW, is it possible you are overinterpreting her remark to him, maybe drilling into a big meaning ... and not perhaps seeing it as just a remark to him? For the sake of making a remark to him...asking him a question to take note of his presence, to include him, to invite him to share the therapy session he was present in?
I have no idea if this is accurate and don't mean it as critical of you at all. I'm just fantasizing about what the dynamics of the moment might have been. (NO IDEA WHATSOEVER, OF COURSE! I could be totally wrong.)
I just had a sudden little hunch that perhaps for the T, that exchange wasn't primarily about the meaning of her question...iow, not really about the question itself, but more about the behavior of noticing/greeting/inviting your husband. And, it took the form of asking him a question.
Or maybe she really did wonder for some reason whether he'd experienced it too, but didn't intend that as an implication that you weren't believable. Maybe she just wondered if he is reading the family stuff online also...that would tell her something about your closeness as a couple, or how involved he is in what you're dealing with, or how detached or not detached, etc....
Was he "just sitting there?" Maybe in her T-head, there was an imbalance of attention somehow, and she tried to redress it by asking him what he thought or had observed?
Anyway, hope these are helpful queries...you are struggling hard, and I wish it were less painful and lonely for you.
Hops
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Hops, you may be right. Yes, hubby was “just sitting there.” He has a real discomfort with therapy – does NOT like it and does not participate. In the past, when we've gone to marriage counseling, he either just sits there, or if questioned, tells a lie, maybe because he fears being admonished by the therapist. I don't know. Some people aren’t comfortable sharing their feelings with a stranger, and he’s definitely one of them.
I did run this by my husband, and he said something about how T kept trying to make eye contact with him (heaven forbid). So, yes, it IS possible that she was simply trying to engage him, and ended up picking the worst possible time to do it.
Unfortunately, my mind immediately goes to "she doesn't believe me" because I have a very long history of therapists who had little or no knowledge of NPD and did not believe me. One labeled me as a "drama queen." Another asked me, "Why on earth would your mother do that to you?" I remember saying to her "I don't know why my mother did those things to me. That's why I'm here." And she looked at me like I was the crazy one, making up all these wild stories. Even back in High School, I went to my guidance counselor begging for help, and they called my parents and told them I was making up stories (and you can imagine how N mom reacted to being ratted out). So long story short, because I've been doubted pretty much my whole life, I'm really paranoid, and really vulnerable in that area.
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This has been my experience with Therapy, too. Our problem is that we DON'T trust ourselves. That is what we are going to therapy for. If the therapists undermines this, we will regress not progress, IME. Ami
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Ami, it's terrible, isn't it? In can take YEARS (if ever) to undo the damage that a bad therapist can inflict in just one session.
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"Maybe in her T-head . . ."
I just had to repeat that line from Hops' post. It gave me the giggles. I needed that. :lol:
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I see my life as consistently going down the tubes and therapy WAS a factor. My FOO went to therapy for a hang nail. My M could not think for herself.
I started when I was in seventh grade. I remember I went to the movies on a school day. A guy was following me around the movie theater.
I was shaken up . When I went to the therapist, I told him about this. He said,"What did YOU do to make him do this?"
He was the first in the line of many therapists trying to take my reality away from me
I think emotionally healthy people have good common sense.
Therapy can make you doubt yourself so much that you lose the connection to your common sense. That is my experience, anyway.
Ami
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I have been talking to my Aunt whom I consider emotionally healthy. She would not need a therapist b/c she trusts herself.She trusts her OWN perception of reality.
Anything that helps you trust YOURSELF is good. Anything that takes you away from trusting yourself is bad. That would go for a friendship, relationship or therapist, IME. Ami
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I was shaken up . When I went to the therapist, I told him about this. He said,"What did YOU do to make him do this?"
OMG! That's HORRIBLE. Ami, I'm not sure how old you are, but I'm 49, so was in high school in the 70s. Back then they didn't have child protective services and people looking out for abuse. So if I told someone that my N mom was doing horrible things to me, the immediate response was to report it back to M. Had I walked into my guidance counselor's office with visible cuts and bruises, it might have been different, but back in those days, abused kids were pretty much voiceless. I often wonder what it would be like if I were 17 today . . . if the reaction of my guidance counselor would be different in 2009 than they were in 1976. Or is emotional abuse still shoved under the carpet and considered "not really abuse?"
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We were in the same time period but this one incident reflected how the therapist was. For this guy(an MD) everything was Freudian.He really messed me up. Then after I left him, I ended up with another Freudian MD who continued to take my common sense away and replace it with crazy intellectualism.
There is a saying "Dont call running horses zebras". It means don't complicate the obvious.
I am sure there are therapists that help people. I either was not able to receive or the ones I had were not able to give.
Ami
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Just wanted to add s/thing. The really bad thing inherent in therapy is that you are often too selfless to defend yourself and use your own gut.If you had a good sense of self ,you probably would not be there. So, if you get s/one bad it can take forever or never to get out. Ami
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Kathy, I think back in the "olden days" there WERE people who knew about emotional abuse... and some of them were school counselors, teachers, nurses, even neighbors. Problem wasn't that the issue wasn't recognized... rather it was that parents were still considered "gods" over their children and the family was private & sacred... so people were socially - and legally - restricted from interfering.
In the late 60s/early 70s.... I found those kinds of people - but as I said, the help they were able to offer was very limited.
The keys to "repairing" ourselves are found right inside of US. And I found, that the way to do that was to learn what I didn't learn as a child. One of those things, as Ami has pointed out - is learning to trust myself. That said, some things are learned through osmosis, when a child in a healthy family... and much more difficult to learn as an adult because the brain has already established certain emotional/consequences pathways. We have to un-do those and learn healthier emotional habits... and establish new neural connections - somewhat like a stroke victim.
Well, that's a tall order - especially when a person is feeling overwhelmed by so many "symptoms" and emotions from the past and juggling the challenges of the present. Where to start? In my relationship with my T, she functioned as a trail guide... pointing out alternate paths (= healthier emotional habits)... fed me the validation I needed - then - when we backtracked over where I had been... and she also walked with me a ways down some new paths. She was my "professor", in learning healthier ways to BE.
But it was always MY journey. She was more like the sherpa that kept me from starving or freezing to death... pulled me out of the ravines that I fell into... and the best gift I got from her, was when she waved goodbye - saying I didn't need her anymore, because I had a clear sense of the path and had learned the skills I needed to keep myself safe. That experience was her telling me, that she had confidence and trust in me, to take care of myself... and while it's taken awhile... over a year... I've started internalizing that "gift".
I know I got lucky, in that we connected on the first shot. What I found out much later (my own blind-spot got in the way) is that she specialized in abuse victims. She was able to walk the fine line of getting me to trust her enough... to learn how to trust myself, without becoming another of my "substitute moms".