Can therapy do more harm than good?

[Ami]

My experience with some therapists is that as long as you have a checkbook, they will not let YOU go. You have to make the move, not ask them to approve .                Ami

[JustKathy]

I DO have to assert myself. Probably should have done it a long time ago, but that's always been a problem area for me - with doctors, therapists, employers, other family members. I was taught to always do what I was told, so asserting myself does not come easily for me. Subsequently, it's pretty easy for a bad doctor or therapist to get away with harming me.

One thing I'm pretty certain of, is that this therapist doesn't believe everything I'm telling her. I think she feels that I'm over-exaggerating a little. I've had this problem with other therapists. Some of the things my N mom did were SO whacked out, it is a little hard to believe, but anyone familiar with NPD should know what these people are capable of.

About three months ago she did something that really bothered me, and bothers me still. I went to see her to discuss my brother's schizophrenic/N wife. SIL is one crazy scary woman, and I discovered that she had been monitoring my Internet activity, probably for years (hence I have a different user name on this board than when I originally joined). I found out after opening a Twitter account. She showed up as a "follower" after a few short hours, and since I registered using a nickname, it wasn't like she just stumbled across me. She was searching. Anyway, in the process, I saw HER Twitter page, and some of the horrifying comments she was posting, like wanting to kill the mailman, kill her neighbor, bashing family members, and so on. Most of her posts were things that would come off as joking around to a stranger, but knowing she's schizophrenic, and has the potential to be dangerous, I found it quite unsettling.

So I went to see my therapist, and hubby went with me, just because he was off that day. I was telling T some of the things I had read on SIL's Twitter page, when she turned to my husband, and said, "Did YOU see any of this?" He promptly told her that yes, he HAD seen it. But I was stunned. She was looking for a witness to corroborate my story.

What's this therapist's fixation with you being a 'good girl' for your father???  What do YOU need from your father?

That's what I don't get. What do I need from my father? Well, his love would have been nice, but I've been trying to get that for 50 years, and so far, no luck. He's certainly not going to start loving me now because I send my mother a card, or called her, or whatever. Inheritance? Nope. I was only added to the will last week, and only as an act of retaliation against my brother's crazy wife. AND, I have not actually seen said will, so, nuff said. And even if I were in the will, I don't WANT the money if it's not being given to me as act of love, but rather to stick it to someone else.

It almost seems like that question needs to be directed at the therapist. What does SHE think I want or need from my father? How does SHE think I'll benefit from putting him first. Maybe I need to turn this around on her and get those answers. Whatever it is she seems to think I need, well, I don't need it.

[Ami]

Dear Kathy
 I think you want to direct your own life based on your own feelings. It is  hard for us to trust ourselves but I think that is the way out.I think we need some other person to see us and validate that we are human not "bad"but the person has to mirror you,not push you to be different. The goal is for you to find the real you and trust it NOT make the therapist feel good about herself. That was what we had to do in childhood.
 That is my take on it.     Love ,  Ami

[rosencrantz]

So I went to see my therapist, and hubby went with me, just because he was off that day. I was telling T some of the things I had read on SIL's Twitter page, when she turned to my husband, and said, "Did YOU see any of this?" He promptly told her that yes, he HAD seen it. But I was stunned. She was looking for a witness to corroborate my story.

There was something hugely refreshing about the way you expressed this experience.  You have no fear or confusion about what happened.

Will you ask her WHY she felt the need to ask your husband?  Will you establish the truth of what you observed ie that she did not actually believe you without corroboration?  And how long has this cynicism been driving her therapeutic interventions...?

I think you must have stimulated a memory of an experience of mine but I haven't quite managed to pin it down yet.

[sKePTiKal]

Hi Kathy,

I'm curious, now, about what your T's therapeutic philosophy is. Is she CBT based? Jungian? Freudian?

[JustKathy]

Wow, I have NO idea. When we moved to Tucson, we got a list of psychs and therapists that were covered under our insurance plan. The first one was no good because she didn't believe what I was telling her about my N mom (sadly, this has been the case with almost every therapist I've seen). Then I tried the second one, and this woman said right away, "oh, NPD." She knew exactly what I was talking about, which was HUGE for me since I have had SO many therapists who didn't even know what NPD was, outside of seeing it in the occasional trade journal.

Her business card says "For the practice of general and medical psychology." Honestly, I didn't know that there were different philosophies to therapy, so have never given it a second thought.

[JustKathy]

Will you ask her WHY she felt the need to ask your husband?

Rosencrantz, if the opportunity arises, yeah, I think I WILL tell her that it bothered me. I haven't witnessed much of this cynicism before, but then, I'm usually alone in the sessions. Hubby rarely comes with me, but his being there definitely prompted her to ask him if he were a witness. I should have said something right then and there, but it didn't really hit me until I got home. I started thinking about the session, and the light bulb suddenly went off . . . "Hey, she didn't believe me. WTF? She asked hubby if I were telling the truth."

In the past, I have taken her photocopies of emails and letters from psycho SIL and N mother, so she has seen the actual correspondence and KNOWS what they are both capable of. She has these copies in my file, so unless she's overbooked and just forgot, there was no reason for her to doubt me. It's not like I've been walking in there with wild stories every week. I have taken her the proof almost every time, mainly because I thought she would have a better understanding of the situation of she read N's letters herself, rather than listen to my interpretation.

I definitely need to say something. I feel weird confiding in her now, if she's doubting what I say.

[rosencrantz]

 I suppose it's possible she had a genuine reason for asking him eg to see if he was supportive or involved.

[Hopalong]

I'm going out on a hunch-limb and this might be TOTALLY off, so please ignore this fantasy if so...

Is it possible you are "mind-reading" your T, in the sense that you're attributing suspicion and/or cynicism to something which, on its face, was just a question to someone who was also in the room?

Was she possibly simply trying to engage him, because you were present as a couple?

Could it have been a form of courtesy?

Could she have been trying to include him in the time? In the process? In the conversation?

IOW, is it possible you are overinterpreting her remark to him, maybe drilling into a big meaning ... and not perhaps seeing it as just a remark to him? For the sake of making a remark to him...asking him a question to take note of his presence, to include him, to invite him to share the therapy session he was present in?

I have no idea if this is accurate and don't mean it as critical of you at all. I'm just fantasizing about what the dynamics of the moment might have been. (NO IDEA WHATSOEVER, OF COURSE! I could be totally wrong.)

I just had a sudden little hunch that perhaps for the T, that exchange wasn't primarily about the meaning of her question...iow, not really about the question itself, but more about the behavior of noticing/greeting/inviting your husband. And, it took the form of asking him a question.

Or maybe she really did wonder for some reason whether he'd experienced it too, but didn't intend that as an implication that you weren't believable. Maybe she just wondered if he is reading the family stuff online also...that would tell her something about your closeness as a couple, or how involved he is in what you're dealing with, or how detached or not detached, etc....

Was he "just sitting there?" Maybe in her T-head, there was an imbalance of attention somehow, and she tried to redress it by asking him what he thought or had observed?

Anyway, hope these are helpful queries...you are struggling hard, and I wish it were less painful and lonely for you.

Hops

[JustKathy]

Hops, you may be right. Yes, hubby was “just sitting there.” He has a real discomfort with therapy – does NOT like it and does not participate. In the past, when we've gone to marriage counseling, he either just sits there, or if questioned, tells a lie, maybe because he fears being admonished by the therapist. I don't know. Some people aren’t comfortable sharing their feelings with a stranger, and he’s definitely one of them.

I did run this by my husband, and he said something about how T kept trying to make eye contact with him (heaven forbid). So, yes, it IS possible that she was simply trying to engage him, and ended up picking the worst possible time to do it.

Unfortunately, my mind immediately goes to "she doesn't believe me" because I have a very long history of therapists who had little or no knowledge of NPD and did not believe me. One labeled me as a "drama queen." Another asked me, "Why on earth would your mother do that to you?" I remember saying to her "I don't know why my mother did those things to me. That's why I'm here." And she looked at me like I was the crazy one, making up all these wild stories. Even back in High School, I went to my guidance counselor begging for help, and they called my parents and told them I was making up stories (and you can imagine how N mom reacted to being ratted out). So long story short, because I've been doubted pretty much my whole life, I'm really paranoid, and really vulnerable in that area.

[Ami]

This has been my experience with Therapy, too. Our problem is that we DON'T trust ourselves. That is what we are going to therapy for. If the therapists undermines this, we will regress not progress, IME.       Ami

[JustKathy]

Ami, it's terrible, isn't it? In can take YEARS (if ever) to undo the damage that a bad therapist can inflict in just one session.

[JustKathy]

"Maybe in her T-head . . ."

I just had to repeat that line from Hops' post. It gave me the giggles. I needed that.

[Ami]

I see my life as consistently going down the tubes and therapy WAS a  factor. My FOO  went to therapy for a hang nail. My M could not think for herself.
 I started when I was in seventh grade. I remember I went to the movies on a school day. A   guy was following me around the movie theater.
 I was shaken up . When I went to the therapist, I told him about this. He said,"What did YOU do to make him do this?"
 He was the first in the line of many therapists  trying to take my reality away from me
 I think  emotionally healthy people have good common sense.
 Therapy can make you doubt yourself so much that you lose the connection to your common sense. That is my experience, anyway.
                                                       Ami
 

[Ami]

I have been talking to my Aunt whom I consider emotionally healthy. She would not need a therapist b/c she trusts herself.She trusts her OWN perception of reality.
 Anything that helps you trust YOURSELF is good. Anything that takes you away from trusting yourself is bad. That would go for a friendship, relationship or therapist, IME.     Ami