good guys and bad guys?

[sea storm]

I am starting to see that often people seem to see things in terms of black and white. I mean that there seems to be a bad N and a good codependent. When I first started to write in I was in terrible pain and felt that I need something to hang onto, some kind of vindication to keep me from sinking entirely.
Now I am feeling better after spending a lot of energy taking care of myself.The boundaries aren't so clear anymore. I yelled at my N and I felt a murderous rage. He liied compulsively, cheated with other women and extorted  a lot of money. Nevertheless i admit I have a dark side and everybody does.
Where do I take responsibility for the disastrous relationship?  I feel a lot of guilt and feel very mixed up and confused. I have no doubt he was an N.  I just don't want to be an imposter on this website and pertend that I was some kind of lily white person who never reacted badly in this relationship.
If someone could talk about thsi with me I would sure appreciate it.

[Hopalong]

....often people seem to see things in terms of black and white. I mean that there seems to be a bad N and a good codependent.

Hi Sea,
I think you're SO on your way to healing. You have the courage to resist balancing the monster with an angel. Good for you for owning and acknowledging your own dark side.

You bet, N = bad and kindness = good. Sometimes, though, I can envy the unwavering focus of an N on getting its needs met. In fighting the Ns, I have developed more of a spine and more acceptance of the moral complexities of being human.

Myths and monsters don't satisfy my imagination any more.

I am grateful for your thinking and your reminder to accept mystery and imperfection. Vilifying is a place to start when one is trapped. But after we gnaw off the leg that connects us to the trap, we can see that we have teeth too. It's just a question of what we chew on.

And with apologies for that incomprehensible metaphor (Thanksgiving feast coming up!)...let me say you're not wrong to perceive ambiguity. You're not wrong for having raged.

The N is wrong when it sucks up all the oxygen. The N is right when it shows energy, drive, focus, charm, and survival skills. The CoD is wrong when it neglects its young and devours its own limb while in the N's orbit. The CoD is right when it shows compassion, persistence, emotion, and vulnerability.

"Wrong" and "right" and "good" and "bad" are all limited by being words. I admire you for turning them over to examine both their sunlit and their dark, damp sides.

(You're still a good person. Live your life. Discover your obligation to create your own peace, your own happiness.)

love,
Hops

[axa]

Your post was really interesting as I too have come to the conclusion that it was not all about him.  Along the way I lost myself and mirrored some of his outrages.  All I felt was drained and sick of myself.  I have posted today about this.  I need to look at myself so much in this relationship and my "games".   I was the all good to his all bad.  Of course this is rubbish we both brought plenty to the party.  I really want to commit to my own recovery as I see that as the only way of not falling into the trap again

axa

[Brigid]

seastorm,
There is never only one person who makes mistakes in a relationship.  I know I was far from perfect in my marriage, but the key is that I NEVER lied to him about anything and would have gone to any extent to try to make things work.  He lied about things which were so important to the success of the relationship and then would act the victim if I became upset or angry about those things. 

I finally figured out that he would set me up to get angry so he could be the victim.  Passive-aggressive I guess it would be.  I fell for it each time and then would feel guilty for getting angry at this poor guy who was only trying to be the best husband and father he could be and why wasn't I just content with that, yadda, yadda, yadda.  It was a scenario we played out more times than I can count in our 25 years of being together.

Accept the role you played in the demise of the relationship, but always keep in mind that when in a relationship with an n personality that they never did or could love you.  You could have twisted yourself every which way and done everything his way and it still wouldn't have created a different result.  Eventually you will come to terms with that and be grateful that you have gotten away and have the opportunity to create a new and much happier future for yourself.

Hugs,

Brigid

[Stormchild]

Hi Sea storm and axa

I'm cheering for you both...

It's all about honesty, basically. When we can be honest with ourselves - as you are being - and consider that we may share some responsibility for some situations - we're on the road to freedom.

Doesn't mean we have to take all of the responsibility. In fact we may have to reject that thought, if it's been programmed into us in the past by people who took advantage of us.

There are predators, and there are people without conscience, and they prey on people whenever they find an opportunity.

The people they prey on don't always volunteer for it. Sometimes it's just rotten luck - they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Sometimes it's naivete, or a romantic outlook that hasn't looked closely enough at the prince. Sometimes the person is deliberately and coldly deceived.

We aren't responsible for predatory people existing and being the way they are and encountering us.

We can be responsible for reacting to them in different ways, being less appealing as prey, being less vulnerable to head games.

We don't have to blame ourselves in order to change - but we do have to accept the responsibility for doing so.

You're doing this. Brava!

PS: it's a funny thing, but you may discover that when you stop thinking of people as all good or all bad, you think of them as more honest or less honest, instead. It's not quite the same thing. Weak people can be quite honest about their weaknesses while still unable or unwilling to address them. Others can be totally dishonest about their weaknesses, with themselves primarily, and then of course they will find it necessary to be dishonest with everyone else as well.

PSS: I timed out while posting, and when I was able to get back in, I saw that Brigid had also stressed honesty - with her own story to show just how important it is... I can't improve on anything she's said, it's all there, clear as the day.

Edit in: coincidentally - was reading Carolyn Hax' advice column online, and there's a beauty of a pull quote in the one from November 16:

"Good people can make bad decisions, but what they don't do is make excuses afterward. ... Admit that to yourself, find out why you did [blank], then remedy -- honestly -- the problem to which this "[blank]" was to be your solution."

[sea storm]

Thank you so much for writing back. Sharing this experience with people who understand and care is carrying me along on my healing. When I first read the powerful words of insight and encouragement I was overwhelmed with the support and kindness.

Right now I am facing the void that I always feared would appear if I separated from such a big personality as my N. It is here for sure. Words like remember honesty and the lies. Remember he was never sorry for a thing. Even now he is so kind and courteous to me that I could be fooled. He has the gracious manners of a Persian prince.
I love his language. What a thing to base a relationship on.
I want so much to believe in him. I see this as a replay of wanting my mom to come out of her business trance and really be there. It never happened.
I realize that this void I am crossing is full of sadness and anger. It involves connecting with myself instead of using someone else to survive with. Whatever made me wake up was a powerful force for the good and I know that if I don't follow this path I may as well kiss my sanity goodbye.
Just when I felt like life was a dessert I got invited to go to a little island for some storm watching and zen pottery and all that.
My friend tells me I have to stop pulling the tree that i have planted in my soul up to see if it has grown roots yet. Too soon.
This is sounding better than I feel. Every day is a little better though.
Love to you guys,
Sea

[Hopalong]

Sea you brave and clear and following the sunlit path...

Fading,
Hops

[CB123]

edit

[Hopalong]

  CouldBe...what a great thing to hear.
Sometimes it's a light bulb, sometimes it's a whole chandelier!

I'm so glad for you.

Hops