Author Topic: A Question of Hope  (Read 2082 times)

sunblue

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
A Question of Hope
« on: September 21, 2007, 06:54:09 PM »
Although there is certainly much to say about some of the many posts published recently, I have refrained.  Quite simply, I am disgusted, completely and totally, by the behavior on this board and what it has turned into.  However, I could not help but add one last post on the subject of hope because I believe the topic is so critical. 

"Hope springs eternal."  "I’ll never give up hope."  "There’s always hope."  Our society and indeed the human condition is based on these optimistic and basic principles.  Indeed, without hope there would often be no reason to continue living.  The suicide rate would soar.  We often smugly speak about our intent to "keep on hopin’" no matter what.  We brag that no matter what life throws at us, well by gosh, we’ll just keep on hoping. 
 
What we don’t discuss are the consequences of hoping.  What are the psychological effects on a person who possesses a life-long hopefulness for something that can never result in a positive outcome?  How does constant disappointment, loss and discouragement affect the emotional and physical health of an individual?  If you are someone who has a significant NPD in your life, you know the answers.

Hope is a good thing.  It’s an essential thing.  But hope can also be a damaging thing.  I would argue that when you are in a relationship with an NPD, hope is a very dangerous thing.  The tendency is to hang onto it for dear life, to never let it go.  As long as there’s a smidgeon of hope left, there’s a chance, however slim, that we will get what we want—a healthy, loving, “normal” relationship with the NPD person who matters so much to us.  But this kind of hope is damaging because both experience and science teaches us that no matter how much we hope, no matter how hard we try, narcissists simply will never, EVER, change their stripes.

Coming to terms with this reality is incredibly painful, partly because it is not human nature to give up on hope.  But it is CRITICAL to give up hope in these situations.  In certain life situations, hope does not and should not spring eternal. Hoping for something that can never be is harmful, painful and sad.  Knowing when to hope and when to let it go is critical to our emotional health.

Because it is natural for hope to spring eternal, it is my fervent “hope” that this board will change in months to come.  Perhaps at that time I will return to find out.  If not, I wish you all the very best in your journey to healing and understanding.  I pray that you will contribute to rather than contaminate the objective of learning about and dealing with the effects of voicelessness and NPD abuse.

reallyME

  • Guest
Re: A Question of Hope
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2007, 09:42:27 PM »
Sad to say, sunblue, I know quite a few people who would have loved your message here.  People who still try and justify abandoning others and want to just go on in life without those others.  You just gave the abusers and the rejectors and the abandoners a voice...you gave them the voice of the very ones they tried to and sometimes succeeded in rendering voiceless.

Not good.  Not good at all.

There is ALWAYS hope, until death.  If the apostle Paul in the BIble, who was the chief of sinners and narcissists, could make a conversion from his former self, then I believe, likewise, with the ALMIGHTY power of God, ANYONE can change and be a different person...a new creation.

This is not just hope though...it's FAITH that works through hope and produces love.

no matter what, i will always hope and that hope will be eternal, since it comes from the Eternal One.

I'm sad that you don't see things this way.  Hopelessness toward any one or any situation, is truly a dismal thing indeed.

"A merry heart does good like a medicine, but a broken spirit dries the bones."

~reallyME
Laura

Bella_French

  • Guest
Re: A Question of Hope
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2007, 01:14:06 AM »
Dear Sun blue,

I feel that the term `hope' has different meanings for different people. For example, where you have used the term `hope' in this post, I would have used something like `blind faith' or `unrealistic expectations'. Hope doesn't have to be uneducated or unrealistic (but sometimes is, i agree!).

I agree what you have to say about giving up hope in Narcissists, 100%. That is very wise advice!

Anyway, mostly i just wanted to thankyou for all the great conversations and for sharing parts of your life here; I got a lot out of your participation on this forum.

X Bella







Mati

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
Re: A Question of Hope
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2007, 07:14:18 AM »
sun

You are so right, that hope deferred makes the soul sick. And to stay where the soul is made sick is not the will of God for us. We are to love ourselves and this is not loving us. I think that God can sometimes require us to stay with a sick person but that will not be normal and he would give strong leadings because it is such a dangerous place for us psychologically.

There is a point in our degeneration where God gives up on us and then it is impossible to restore that one.

Bella_French

  • Guest
Re: A Question of Hope
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2007, 06:16:41 PM »

May i ask a serious question? How can one believe in heaven, and believe that `hope' is bad at the same time? I really find this to be a paradox.

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13616
Re: A Question of Hope
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2007, 06:38:23 PM »
Hi Bella,

I don't believe in heaven, so when I feel hope, it's about this life of the life of my descendents.

I am invested in what our great-great-great-great-great-great-great, etc. grandchildren will be dealing with.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13616
Re: A Question of Hope
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2007, 06:50:30 PM »
Hi again Bella,
That was too blunt and not quite accurate.

I do believe in heaven, but I don't think that time is linear. I think heaven is here, now, and hell is here, now. As concepts. I don't believe in them as literal places.

I also believe that it doesn't matter what I believe. The universe stills me and I don't know if there's an observing presence or not. My not knowing is a positive, for me. Sometimes it's a yearning that's not so positive. Most of the time, it's positive.

I have a strong mystical streak and I know love is real and more than biology. So where there is love for ourselves, each other and for other living creatures and for the ecosystems that sustain us, there is heaven. Where those are absent, there is hell. Life thinking and feeling and transcending, heaven and hell overlap and flow and move. They're not separate.

When I die I do not know what happens afterward. I think I won't know about it when it happens. I know the last look on my father's face was pure wonder. And then peace.

If the peace is the absence of something or the presence of something, I'll find out.

I am not afraid of death (though I fear loneliness or suffering before death) because I don't believe in these concepts literally. One thing that happened in my wobbly march was that one day I had a realization, or epiphany. If there is a god, and if god is anything even remotely resembling what I believe about love, then God would laugh at my fear-based feelings about whether I am good or not, and at whether I accept texts or concepts or not.

I believe that if god is real, then god is love and only love, love bigger than anything any human mind can imagine or describe...and that our notions of texts and religions are like ant society. We have our roles and our crumbs to carry and our instincts and we are doing what we are supposed to do, being human and trying. If we die into God, we die into love and that's enough. Meanwhile, I imagine if there is a god that god's wish would be that we would put the texts down and stop consuming and war and use CFLs.

love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

changing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1189
Re: A Question of Hope
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2007, 06:55:40 PM »
Hello-

This is an interesting subject and I appreciate the post. It appears that "hope" is virtually undefined here- is it an expectation of the possibility of good and pleasure in the future? If so, I would argue that hope is not damaging per se, but merely an extension of past experience and a way to leaven current hardships with the realization that "this too must pass"- actually a quite realistic perpective. If on the other had, hope represents a belief in an imminent miracle, that may well become a disappointment, and if relied upon too literally, might prove to be disastrous.

Hope need not involve snake oil or cons- it can be the simple act of planting and waiting for a harvest.

Love,

Changing

Bella_French

  • Guest
Re: A Question of Hope
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2007, 08:10:03 PM »
Dear Hops,

It was a pure pleasure reading your thoughts about God , love, and time, and it is really nice to find someone who, like myself,  also suspects that time is not linear. I have the same instinct but no real fully formed thoughts about it, so it was uplifting reading what you had to say. You have a very interesting and deep mind, Hops.

Dear Changing, I liked the way you described `hope', as planting and waiting for a harvest.

X Bella