Coronavirus

[Hopalong]

I think you're so wise to be considering used furniture, Tupp.
I was in that industry.

Old furniture offers 90% of the time much better materials and construction than new. I have an early-60s sofa that's solid as a tank. Simple slipcovers or reupholstery if affordable is all these need in most cases.

Where I used to work I did a great deal of research on materials. Most new furniture is toxic and adds to the endocrine-disrupting chemical load in the body, which has been implicated by researchers and epidemiologist in developmental brain disorders, cancer, infertility and even obesity. They call them "obesogens."

There's an absolute forest of poorly-regulated toxic chemicals in new household furnishings, flooring, carpets, foam stuffing in cushions and pillows, bedding, laminates, anything with particleboard or synthetic lumber, vinyl, drapes, etc. Flame retardants, nanoparticle fabric treatments, pesticides, toxic stains and dyes and on and on. The off-gassing VOCs (volatile organic compounds) from plastics and vinyls doesn't even end when the "new" smell is gone, but continues for years undetecably.

I MUCH prefer well-built old furniture! It's not only less expensive but avoids another discarded thing going off to a dump or landfill -- keeps it out of the waste stream.

Haven't resuscitated that rant for a while now! Hope you enjoy your shopping and find pieces you can work with and enjoy for years to come.

hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Zoiks!  I didn't know all that, Hospie - I've always gone for second hand just because I can get nicer pieces for less money and it tends to be better made, means another tree hasn't been cut down and so on.  I like the history with old pieces as well, not that I usually know what it is but I can make something up in my head   But all that chemical, health impacting stuff - yuk!  I had no idea.  Is it all just to do with the processes they put them through and chemicals they treat them with?  I'll probably have to get son's bed new as it's a particular kind of storage that I'm after and the chances of one of those being in the shop second hand are slim (I'll have a look, though!).  But everything else I'll try to get through them.  They also take furniture; son's current bed still has life in it, it's just too small for him now so they can have that and our sofa is very old and battered but might do someone a turn (we got it free from someone who was moving and that was about seven years ago now so it's on it's not as good as it once was but it can still do the job).  I might be able to sort it so that they take the old stuff when they pick up the new which would be handy.  Nice to have a little project to think about.  I love the sound of your 60s sofa!  It's great when you get a good piece that just lasts forever xx

[Hopalong]

Is it all just to do with the processes they put them through and chemicals they treat them with?

Exactly that. Indoor air pollution is often worse, due to buildup and inadequate ventilation, than outdoor air pollution. Candles, cleaning products, furniture, carpets, cleaning products, personal care products and cosmetics, on and on.....
https://www.blf.org.uk/support-for-you/indoor-air-pollution/causes

https://www.ewg.org/research/dirty-dozen-list-endocrine-disruptors?gclid=CjwKCAiAlNf-BRB_EiwA2osbxeh-mLEpGPB_ds-T5Ne8R65qorKuafxHQ8q89w3iL_m6Rh55NNFcHBoCjsgQAvD_BwE

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2677823/
Note that while PBDE's have been banned as flame retardants, it took industry no time to come up with a slightly tweaked new formula (Firemaster) that researchers expect is just as toxic.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2677823/

Bottom line is that the chemical industry wordwide is valued at over $80 billion annually (imagine the lobbying budgets). As recently as ten years ago (unlikely to have improved since), it was reported that the US tests only about 10% of new chemicals for human and environmental safety, and the industry makes new forumulas all the time. Basically, we're human sponges and if a kind of pesticide or plastic or finish makes a product shinier or cheaper or look more appealing to the consumer eye, manufacturers aren't staying up at night worrying about the long-term chemical load in our bodies.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Our "bubble" here has tightened. (Not that I ever had or am starting a massive social life.) Hol's very freaked out about the possibility of getting the virus; not knowing and then giving it to someone else - any of her friends or me. So, she's not inviting anyone out to visit -- and when she does, has her list of things to ask them, prior. It's usually one or two people at a time now.

I think one of my issues last week was how much running around I had to do between Kitty & car inspections. With all the covid protocols and especially masks - I'm reading/picking up more negativity from people than ever. It's DEPRESSING to me, especially in this season... that people even when interacting are all so closed off and unfriendly.

[Twoapenny]

Our "bubble" here has tightened. (Not that I ever had or am starting a massive social life.) Hol's very freaked out about the possibility of getting the virus; not knowing and then giving it to someone else - any of her friends or me. So, she's not inviting anyone out to visit -- and when she does, has her list of things to ask them, prior. It's usually one or two people at a time now.

I think one of my issues last week was how much running around I had to do between Kitty & car inspections. With all the covid protocols and especially masks - I'm reading/picking up more negativity from people than ever. It's DEPRESSING to me, especially in this season... that people even when interacting are all so closed off and unfriendly.

That's a shame, Skep (about people being more unfriendly).  I guess it's been going on for so long now and it's so grim that people are fatigued with it all.  In our local area I have to say I've seen the opposite - people are going out of their way to say hi and chat a bit.  I think because the masks cover facial expressions (I still find myself smiling at people even though they can't see it and then I realise I need to put it into words as well lol).  But I know here everyone is fed up with it and I imagine it's similar over there.  It's caused huge problems in pretty much everyone's situation and it's just gone on for so blooming long - with no real end in sight yet.  Bleurgh.  I'll be glad when it's over.

Hopsie, thank you for all of those links, I'll have a read later.  I suspect they're going to make me glad I don't usually buy new furniture!  Lol.  I really wish that every government in every country would bring in legislation so that anything that's produced has to be sustainable, no risk to health (known risk, anyway) and that everyone involved has to be paid properly.  I know it would make things more expensive but how much of what we all buy is really necessary?  And what could we get second hand instead, or just make do with something else?  We do a pretty good job of rarely buying new.  Even tech I usually pick up second hand as there are loads of places that refurbish phones, laptops etc and we've always done alright with it.  It's difficult picking your way through all the information; I try to buy as ethically as I can but you have to put in a lot of time and leg work checking things out and a lot of people just don't have the time (or don't realise it's even an issue).  Wishful thinking, I know.

In slightly better news, although numbers in the county overall still haven't dropped much, in our local area there's been a pretty big drop and we've very few cases now.  That makes me feel better as we only tend to go from here to the library or cinema.  The town we are going to visit tomorrow (to look at the houses) is also pretty low now so I feel a bit easier about it.  Funnily enough I told son we were going to look at places in case they're nice enough to move into and he didn't protest - he normally grumbles if I mention moving but the idea didn't seem to phase him.  Or maybe he wasn't listening properly lol xx

[Hopalong]

I really wish that every government in every country would bring in legislation so that anything that's produced has to be sustainable, no risk to health (known risk, anyway) and that everyone involved has to be paid properly.  I know it would make things more expensive but how much of what we all buy is really necessary?  And what could we get second hand instead, or just make do with something else?

Totally in sync with that, Tupp, every word.

I think if this view doesn't take a huge bite out of Western consumerism/materialism/statusism and FAST, historians will look back and say, if only they'd accepted what was necessary to save it all. Then they'll put their futuristic gas masks back on and go back to work in their bunkers, pondering our foolishness.

hugs
Hops

[Hopalong]

Even though I started that Hax thread, I figure these two belong here. I just love her directness with language, maybe that's why I'm a fan! Hugs--Hops
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Dear Carolyn: I've been sheltering in place for nine months now, venturing out only to the grocery store, pharmacy and a monthly haircut (in masks always). With the spike in infections and deaths, I decided not to join family from four households for Thanksgiving. I got a lot of negative feedback about my decision and feel really bad about it.

I'm scheduled to host Christmas this year — and family members are telling me they won't follow my desires for separation and the like. Am thinking I ought to pull out from hosting.

Your thoughts about all of this?

— Over 65, Overweight, With Underlying Condition

Over 65, Overweight, With Underlying Condition: Yes, cancel Christmas.

I am sorry for that.

I am sorry for your past nine months of restricted living.

I am sorry your people are acting like toads when all they have to do to show their love is assure you they’d rather have you around for a long and fulfilling life than get their way for one stupid day.

I am sorry I called Christmas stupid.

But, wow.

I hope the toadishness is really that they all miss you and are upset they won’t spend time with you and are just saying this badly.

Keep exercising your freedom in service of community health and against recklessness. Heroism wears a mask and follows guidelines and cancels group Christmas and stands up to the misinformed. Thank you for being brave.

Dear Carolyn: What is the appropriate response to guilt-tripping from an elderly mother who frequently says she'll "probably die from something else" before covid is over and it is safe to visit again?

— Anonymous

Anonymous: “I’m doing my part to make sure that doesn’t happen, by keeping my distance now. For us and for all the people like us.

“I do hear you, Mom. This is awful.”

Then in lieu of re-litigating this with her, simply commit to, recommit to, double-down on all of the other means you have available to you to remain connected. All of which are clearly poor substitutes for a hug, but they’re something.

Few can be perfect here, but most can improve . . . something. And the more people behave better, the sooner we all see one another. Everyone. It’s on us to remain as compassionate as we are resolute.

[Twoapenny]

I have to admit, Hopsie, this is the stuff I don't understand - I get someone who is vulnerable to the virus getting annoyed with people who don't take precautions.  I can't get my head around fit and healthy people getting angry with someone who's trying to avoid dying from it?  Particularly as things like Thanksgiving and Christmas are supposed to be about celebrating life and sharing with people.  It kind of boggles my mind that people get angry with folk who are trying to stay alive (and who've made big sacrifices like that lady has - I expect she wants nothing more than to spend a day with the people she cares about but the risk for her would be great).  I just don't understand how that works in someone's mind.  I hope she's able to stand firm and keep herself safe.  It makes me glad I fell out with all of my relatives years ago so there's no expectation to see anyone xx

[Hopalong]

Boggles my mind too, Tupp.

Here, it's basically because not half the population but half of the half who bothered to vote have actually fallen into a state of brainwashed, anti-science, anti-masking cult-like behavior, under the spell of a master-manipulator socio(if not psycho-)path malignant narcissist who's brought out the depravity of desperately alienated people who feel disenfranchised (for some very justified reasons, but this ain't the solution). It's pretty horrifying and has everything to do, imo, with lousy education, economic deserts, and American myths of rugged individualism and exceptionalism. Add to that legit layers of mistrust of government (from Viet Nam to Ruby Ridge), general disenchantment. And a massive, massive, misinformation deluge from "social" media plus internet and cable TV stupidity plus cynicism and pure greed, and abandonment of communal ideals.

So their politicians have utterly sold their souls, and the core base believers are ready to kill and die (kill other Americans including family, die themselves) and are no longer amenable to education and critical thinking. The TV/internet koolaid is all the way through their brains and it's f-ing tragic. Some of them have convinced themselves it's religious freedom, too, which is so off the mark Jesus would weep.

And also killing the helpless around them. One expert said, everybody should simply assume that they themselves and everyone else are asymptomatic carriers until adequate vaccination has been accomplished (late summer probably, unless mistrust of science and government = enough mask refusal to extend the pandemic longer). It's that simple. Masking consistently, serious 20-second handwashing/sanitizing after every "unsafe touch" and remaining 6' (better 8 or 10) feet from people not in one's household or confirmed-safe "pod."

Three things. Not easy things, but very simple things. That take effort, trust in reality/science, and common sense. Reality is our friend.

It's just insane, but America has been going through some insanity. Horribly sad. (The U.K. too, I think Brexit has represented a similar catharsis of resentment.)

It's going to be a long grind, and I wonder if another Great Depression is next. But living day to day determined to feel wonder and happiness in some form, is still available.... I guess Keep Calm and Carry On is going to be back in vogue.

hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

There is happiness to be found, Hopsie, and I am trying really hard to focus on that and not too much on the other stuff just now.  Easier said than done, some days.  One of our TV celebrity type people was saying back in the summer that restrictions should be lifted, as no-one he knew had the virus.  It's just been announced that his brother died from it yesterday.  I do see parallels between this and the 'invisible disability' issues that many people face.  You don't look sick, so you shouldn't have disability benefits/a parking badge/allocated seating or whatever.  I think there are similarities - people feel fine (or feel unwell but no more than a cold) so they find it hard to understand the risk.  I don't think we're conditioned to think of others the way we ought to?  I guess that's a global thing, not just here.  But people seem happy for at risk people to stay home alone indefinitely so they don't have to change their habits.  I can understand it.  We're not used to being asked to put other people's needs before our own (apart from the codependent among us, maybe?  Lol).  But it's gone on a looooong time now.  Everyone's patience is wearing thin, whichever side of the fence they sit on.  I've just had a nice nap.  That's my high spot for the day just now xx

[Hopalong]

Happy naps!

I'm not allowing myself to be distraught about it, or even our shockingly disorienting news -- democracy here just came damn close to collapsing and new forces that will challenge it again have risen to a genuinely threatening degree. So it's possible America will never be the same, will hold on halfway, or will really be altered in indelible, irreparable ways. No more shining city on a hill.

BUT. I do not want to keep mulling over people who aren't responsible about the pandemic OR politicians who've sold out or are compromised. Out of our control.

The news about both subjects will continue every day. But I don't have to get sucked in or even if I do keep up (always do) -- I don't want it to seep through my day. I think I've said really all I've got to say about the pandemic and its deniers.

Really, won't be anything new that isn't already a headline about case counts and resistance.

It's sunny here, had a great evening, I'm warm and safe, Pooch is napping in the sun stream, and I'm both lucky and verrrrry grateful.

Gotta get cracking.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

And.... keeping myself happy and able to share that is why I'm baking enough for my whole county Tupp. It keeps me home a lot too.

The stuff Hops was talking about above - I just want no part of - despite holding very strong opinions on it, myself. It's not a fit topic for polite conversation. And since none of US can do anything helpful about it, I'm just keeping my mouth shut and a sharp weather eye for more crap rolling downhill. Yeah, I know it's everywhere. I'm taking my reality and my way of life - where simple kindness makes so many things easier - and locking the gate and digging a moat. Till I feel I'm ready to deal with the other stuff again.

First flakes of the snow storm are here; Hol woke me up asking if I had Dr. Strangelove in the library. LOL. Pretty sure I do. I don't think S has seen it. Coffee pot (Bunn) died yesterday - again. I just got a french press and except for quantity, it does make good coffee - sans electricity. Thinking about not replacing the electric coffee maker... it would open up my counter space.

[Hopalong]

I'm with you, Amber. And I'm a little shocked I went on such a political rampage here. It was like a lot of stuff bubbled out that I'd been keeping a tight lid on, but it also breaks the "contract" here, which I know is important. I'm sorry for that. Won't do it again. (Or if I do, yell.)

I'd also much rather respect our sacred support space and keep our moats full and flowing.

Alligators! Or floating cookies! Whatever it takes.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

It's perfectly OK with me Hops; I am famous for unexpectedly erupting over the same topic.

We is humanz and we can't control ourselves all the time - or life would be one long case of terminal ennui.

[Meh]

Some claim that there are many moderate Republicans and many moderate Democrats, looking at news etc one would think America is a tempest of extremism.

I will say I'm not impressed with the Republican leaders who have made light of mask wearing and decided to focus on the idea of mask wearing as a concept of freedom or lack of freedom, their rebellion against authority. It does start to appear like rebellion against social responsibility, rebellion against common sense, rebellion against human kindness even. With so many people dying I find it disgusting really. Recently I was watching an interview of Kat Cammack and she talked about how taking her mask off was a little "act of rebellion" she laughed about it, in this moment she sounded like a kid. She also didn't acknowledge any sickness or death, it was left out of her conversation entirely. In the end it's like both political parties have too strong of a personality cult indoctrination where all Republicans are chanting the same chant and likewise all the Democrats are chanting the same chant too. 

I shouldn't be saying anything at all about politics here because maybe this isn't the best forum for it. Politics causes so much strife. I'm not sure how many people are anti-maskers but I would like to think it is not most people.