DD18 seeing nutritional response practitioner (NRP)

[Twoapenny]

Can I just say as I'm reading all of this how beneficial it is to me to read these accounts of managing health problems of older children and the pitfalls you've all encountered.  My son is still dependent in a lot of areas so we're not at that 'flying the nest/living their own life' stage yet, but it's very helpful to me to read how easy it is to step over that line just because you love them.  And how badly they can take it, even though the intentions are nothing but good.  Not easy to watch people mess up, especially when you can see it coming from a mile away.  It's good for me to keep that in mind.  I hope this all gets easier for you to navigate with your D, Lighter xx

[sKePTiKal]

Lighter - one thing I've recently tripped over, is that sometimes our kids take what we intend as simple motherly concern & care into their perception completely differently. For instance, not trusting them to be competent or adult in their understanding or actions. Even when that's been expressed in the midst of accolades of rising to a challenge not many people could tackle. (in this case, I understand there is some old experience still being untangled that doesn't have anything to do with the facts in that situation)

People absolutely have control over their perceptions and while we sometimes agree to share a certain perception or perspective or even interpretation of shared experience - quite often they vary a lot from person to person. May be the most important individualizing factor, for all I know. Those perceptions may only be relevant to someone's internal "reality" -- and outside people aren't really aware that this is the case.

So, there can be these kinds of very confusing conflicts. They aren't the sum total of that relationship - but it's related to that person's inner struggle and perhaps (in my case) being locked on like a heat-seeking weapon to my own perception/understanding of what I intended... and zero-awareness of how that person, in that moment, might perceive it. I shift in/out of that focus a lot, all the time... so I seldom notice when I'm not actively scanning for potential miscommunication. Sigh. Sometimes I just don't have the energy to be able to do that.

It's not a big deal. And I seriously doubt it's something that can be permanently prevented or overcome. It's just something that happens between people. One small trill of notes in 2-3 measures of a symphony. But I do notice with adult children their perception of not just memories - but the actuality of the present moment - can be 180 degrees from what I'm aware of. Just for that moment; it's not necessarily a conclusion written in stone for all infinity.

It's just because we're all different people with a whole universe inside that isn't necessarily always shown on the outside.

[lighter]

Ah, crap. Now I'm wondering if I;m a covert N.

This morning I asked DD20 if she wanted to take the 11am dental tooth cleaning tomorrow morning..... I have an 8am.  Sister has a 10am.  We could have made the morning and lunch of it.  The outlet mall is a few minutes away.  There are things I need for the renovation.  Sounded good to me.

I tried not to judge myself harshly. I came back and re read this thread.  I tried to let the sting of DD20's barked "NO" not get to me, but it sort of did. 

The fact she slept in my bed, with her pug....
the fact the dental receptionist phoned to verify appointment times, let me move DD18's appointment from 11 to 10, meant I had good information I shared with DD20 IF she was interested in getting back on track with the dentist.

That she didn't...... is about her.  Nothing to do with me.  I let it go.

At breakfast DD18 and I were at the dining room table eating our protein and fat.... yummy.  DD20 squeezes in with her raw cookied dough and birthday cake icecream, her breakfast..... DD20 rarely eats with us in the same room.

DD 18 begins complaining.  I note, calmly, it's not nice of her to do that then scoop up the pug and wash her in the kitchen sink, which changes the subject, bc DD18 has missed the pug so..... she's up and at the sink, snuggling the pug.   Food doesn't come up again and I hear the girls leave in DD20's car without saying goodbye. 

I'm glad they're sharing time together, but wonder about enabling behaviors as I feed, walk and dry baby girl pug after her bath.  I've missed the pug too, after all.  I need to get out an stretch my legs too, I  tell myself.

 I'm apparently aiming some of my maternal energy at the pug's nutritional needs.... bc.... I can't do that with DD20?  Probably.  I've put the pug on Dr. Mrty's freeze-dried raw food and daily pro biotics. I KNOW what it is, I do.  I'm not judging it.  Just trying to see it with clarity.

The girls pop in, DD18 grabs her supplements and invites me to dine at a new Indian restaurant downtown.  I already have my second very large helping of organic chicken salad out, ready to go.  I say I'm shopping tubs for the renovation... go have fun.  I am and she does.

I have a question about the renovation....will post it on the Lake thread next.

So, the girls return from dinner.... DD20 pops into my bathroom as I ready my third very large helping of chicken salad today.  Really sick of chicken salad, btw.

The pug scooches her bum on her bed, then on the rug, then in the bathroom with DD20.... I hear DD20 say, "Uh oh."

DD18 goes to the hallway where DD20 left the bathroom door wide open.  DD20 orders her away, then me as I come up behind her to see if there's a problem...... well.

Back in the kitchen, tending to my dinner, DD18 and I watch the pug scooch her bum on the bare floor then the rug again.  What little appetite I had evaporates and I KNOW DD20 won't make an appointment with the vet to deal with those pesky, overtly full anal glands. 

I'm suddenly feeling very similar to when my father refused to get second and third opinions about delicate brain surgery.

If I didn't order his records, make 2 appointments with neuro docs, carry the 40lbs of MRIs.... you guys remember the story.  It wouldn't have gotten done. 

The same with the pug's arse...... if I don't make the appointment, it doesn't get done.

DD20 has taken the pug a time or two, after I've made the appointment, but she behaves as though it burns her to pick up the phone.  Anxiety response.  She might even scratch herself a bit if I push.

I'm frustrated bc some part of me is NOW wondering if I'm on the N spectrum.... manipulative, etc bc I asked DD20 if the pug scooched her arse in the bathroom, where she could see.  DD20 said she did.

SOme very resistent part of me, the part refusing to let my father go into brain surgery without doing his due diligence...... said.....
"the pug needs her bum done" as DD20 walked by on her way upstairs. 

See...... I'm really REALLY struggling with the scent of the pug's anal gland contents....not that she's leaking just now, but it's only a matter of hours.

I wasn't keep in the idea of watching my father learn to breathe, walk, talk and swallow again, but that's what I was going to have to do....it's what I DID DO.  I bathed him plenty, fed him, popped pills into his mouth and let him yank on my neck to stand and sit down, even though he could do it on his own.  He actually could walk a bit, but chose not to, bc he couldn't do it well.

So, how does that tie in with the pug's anal glands smearing HUGE foul fish stink that could knock a buzzard off a shite wagon all over the home I occupy?

I don't think I can make peace with it.  No.  I am CERTAIN I cannot.

I can leave the house tomorrow, after the dental stuff, and try not to think about the pug on the sofa, the floors, the rugs, perhaps my bed, bc DD20 likes to take over my room when I'm not here, but I doub't it's possible to stop thinking about it. 

OK, the pug is sniffing her own bum.  It's happening.

Calming self before going to speak to DD20 about the dog.

I don't want to ask her to move out.

I don't want to give her dog away, though someone asked to take her off our hands just today.

Logical consequences of not caring for an animal should be losing that animal, IMO, but I Iove the pug too.  DD18 loves the pug too.

I can't force DD20 to care for her dog, and it IS her dog. 

I could't force my father to put off a surgery that would paralyze him so he'd have to work to recover..... KNOWING he'd refuse to do that work, which he did.

And I live with...lived with the consequences....... it touches my life, touched my life.  He failed and it was 4 women bathing him, feeding him, lifting him, ruining backs and allowing him to get away with not walking and doing rehab, but for learning to swallow so he could eat and drink scotch again.  So. Sad.

I'm not going to speak to dd20 till you guys chime in. 

WHY don't I know what to do? 

Lighter

[lighter]

Couldn't wait.

I gathered myself, knocked on DD20's door and asked if she had a moment.  She did.  I very genty enquired if she was going to do something about the uncomfortable pug in the dining room....... DD20 said she would, but wasn't sure what. 

Things are calm and respectful at this junction, btw. 

I ask her if she's asking me for advice.

She says she thinks she is. 

I ask her if she knows who the vet is.  She does.  She can find the number on their website.

I let her know her chances of getting an appointment first thing when they open will increase the odds pug is seen today.  That's best case scenario.

I go back to my business and DD18 calls me into her room. 

She asks if I want to try to express the pug's glands myself. I tell her that moment passed...... I'm going back to my responsibilities. Earlier I would have tried if someone had helped me.  I've done it before.  DD18 and I were both traumatized by the pug's screams and the smell.

DD18 wants to know what I plan to do about the pug, the but rubbing and the obvious problem with hygien it creates.

I say......

nothing. 

I'm releasing, abdicating, withdrawing and going back to my floor plans.

She's horrified..... what about the smell? The floor?  The TOWEL?  She wants to know... she has expectations.

 Normally this would put me, a bottle of alcohol and way to trap the pug somewhere easy to clean in motion...... barricade the sofa, bedroom, bathroom etc.

Not tonight.

My lower back is tightening up-, but I think I'm doing the right thing.  If I could put a lock on my bedroom door I'd do that and leave tomorrow before DD20 wakes up. 

::sigh::

Lighter

[lighter]

CB:

The Pug has been in her bed all evening.  She'll sleep in DD20's room if I take her, and her bed, upstairs.

I'm going to trust DD20 to make an appointment first thing in the morning.  Usually it's me doing it.  Sometimes DD20 takes the dog in, but most of the time it's me.

I'm at least pretending I'll do nothing about it right now and throwing the ball into DD20's court.  DD18 believes it.  I think DD20 does too. 

I'll be wrestling with myself in the morning...... wanting to call the vet first thing and nab an appointment, which is more likely the earlier the call is made.

Since I leave the house at 7:30 I'll have to trust DD20 will get up and act.  She'll be asleep when I leave. So will the Pug. 

I MIGHT make the appointmnt, then have the vet give DD20 THAT appointment if and when DD20 calls..... without telling her I did it myself first thing.

I want DD to feel the weight of caring for her dog........ I want her to begin carrying it. 

It feels like an important game of chicken's going on here.

I hope I play well.  I hope you  do too.

Thanks again for your input, CB.  It's helpful.

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

Lighter - you need a break from your DD's lives. Both of them.

You need to simply have some quiet time by yourself; not working; just relaxing. The beauty of a hotel room in a lovely spalike location - and the anonymity that comes with it??  Minimum a week. Really.

You'll feel more solid in your self as a result.

[lighter]

That's what the NRP said, Amber.

[Twoapenny]

((((((((Lighter)))))))))  I know it's not exactly the same situation, but with myself and son, I was so scared they'd take him away from me that my parenting was tighter than a drum.  There was not a crumb of any situation that anyone could get a hook into and starting ripping us apart.  Every aspect of every minute of every day was accounted for, in my mind, and I was on top of every tiny little thing.  There wasn't a hair on his head that I didn't know the specific length and location of.  I'm guessing that it was similar for you.  And I think when you've had to parent in that ultra perfect way, and document it extensively, and keep justifying it to x number of people, and had to keep fighting fabricated allegations within a system where people don't follow the rules, and they keep making up new ones if you get your head around the existing ones - I think it's hard to fight against that need to do everything, and not to make a mistake.  And maybe hard to watch them make a mistake (or lots of mistakes) especially around health issues, or things that cause problems for everyone, like Pug needing the vet.  I just want you to know that I think you're doing an amazing job of dealing with all these issues, old and new, and trying to redraw those boundaries and reassess the situation (especially against the backdrop of all these property renovations and crazy neighbours as well).  I hope you can keep seeing how well you're doing and also, I think it's alright not to do it well sometimes?  I know I have a really hard time accepting it's alright to f**k up from time to time.  But I think it is.  Maybe we all need to embrace the f**k up and actively work on doing it more often?  Lol.  I hope the paths all get clearer and that things settle down more for all of you.  You deserve some fun and some really good stress free time xx

[lighter]

Tupp:

I'm trying to think of ways to take time off, but typically I see us traveling to places we have unfinished business... sort of killing 2 birds with one stone situations.  I SEE myself doing that, but I can't go beyond it just yet. 

::sigh::.  I unloaded really heavy boxes of tile today.  Helped load them last night.  My back is feeling strong and healthy.  I pay very close attention to how I lift, etc.  THIS feels like old me.  I like old me.  I like being active and waiting for no man.  I like teaching DD18 and accepting her help when she steps up, which happens more and more.  She'll take a little time off to heal her health, which continues to improve.

We've both been moved to NRP appointments every other week, which leaves me feeling like I've been released from a fast moving river into a gentle pond.  I'm just floating and gently spinning in place.... able to focus more on things before hustling everything into good enough order so we can mount up, drive for hours and begin again at another home. 

DD18, Jenna's health improving is THE most important thing right now.  It's everything.  There is NOTHINGelse that matters so much as that and  we discussed how she's feeling last night over a meal we've shared and loved most of her life.  It's Salt and Pepper Squid and Chow Fun with snow pea leaves, carrots, baby bok choi and these really delicious tender shrimp.  J ate SO MUCH last night.  The last time we ate that meal together she could hardly eat anything... was really not able to eat any solid foods.

She's feeling better, healthier...... even if she's still wrestling with her body image and gaining healthy pounds..... she feels the gains.  She celebrates them.

We talk about traveling to take care of unfinished business in Texas, GA and the island.  Neither of us will go in this summer heat so we look to making plans NOW, around NRP appointments.  By fall I hope both DD and I are able to move appointments with NRP to once a month, or so.

Food is neutral rigth now, at least for me.  My brain's calmed down enough..... routines are in place enough..... I just move through my days repeating what's working without too much thinking about it.  Very few sad moments come up, typically when watching stupid tv..... pictures of CAKE..... food I can't have anymore.  That trips me up, but not badly. 

Jenna and I spend more time making good choices together and less time plotting bad choices in detail then following through a small percentage of the time.

Today DD made a nutritional milkshake with chia seeds, flas, hamp seeds, blueberries and coconut oil.  It came out thick, room temp and the color and texture of cement,wich reminded me of the volcanic ash we drank to pull toxins out of our bodies...... drinking mud was how it felt.

THIS drink was a pudding for me.... reminded me of pabum from babyhood, but with a bit of blueberry fruitiness the pabum never had.  I felt good about it... almost finished an entire coffee cup full, in fact.  Jenna..... not so much.  She has no positive associations with it at all.

Because I feel it's good for her, I'll go blend hers up with ice, water and macha tea powder.  I think she'll enjoy it that way.

Tupp... you were right about everthing y0u said....about parenting under fire in a system that's broken.  It's not something you just get over.  It's INSIDE us, something we peel away, slowly, layer by layer.... is how it feels.

And it's a few shuffes forward then a jump here and there with T.  I'm trying to stop feelingn frustrated and judgmental about how it's going.  It's going the way it needs to go and it's always OK.  Even when I don't move forward, even when I fall backwards....it's OK. I'm learning. I'm noticing what's there.  This has been really helpful in moving through it, IME.

I'm at peace with laying what feels like groundwork now. 

Groundwork is getting the girls the help they need to overcome the heinous fuchery.  It's getting them as healthy as they can be and teaching them to keep themselves healthy.  THIS is everything.  THISis the ground work I need to take care of, even if it appears to some I'm standing still...failing to do things as they'd DO them, etc.

I notice I have things I have to do every day.  To feel OK.  Before I begin things others w.ould identifyy as a priority.  I have to sort, fix or clean something  I notice or something in the kitchen or bathroom...... the side of a freezer where the cabinet was removed the day before and you can see 25 ears of disgusting brown stuff... what IS it?  And it has to be cleaned before I can go out the door,and my ADD has me moving like an octopus for severalhours..... going from thing to thing to thing... getting SO MUCH DONE in those hours.  Amazing and familiar, but it's neither to Jenna who just wants OUT the door.  She's not built like me that way, but she does try to help, bc it gets us out the door sooner.  She feels I need to revisit the way I move through the world. I agree.  More serenity, less chaos would be nice.

Lighter

[lighter]

CB:

Oldest DD20 works full time at an eye care center.   She's starting school in the fall to be an optomestrist. I believe she can finish a 4 year program in 2.5 years if she continues working at the eye clinic.  It seems like a solid plan.

Youngest DD18 is taking a little time to heal her mind  and body before jumping into University.  That's OK by me. She's up for helping me while handling the anorexia.  We aren't planning to travel to Galveston TX, South GA or the island during summer months, however.  Will plan fall and winter trips.  What part of TX do you live in, if you don't mind saying? 

We're feeling safe, regarding the pandemic.  All vacc'ed up and living pretty normally, even though our town has some pretty high numbers.... it's a tourist town. 

Right now we're at the lake house...... I have to find a drain pipe in the yard and try to unplug it so the water in the basement can drain.  There isn't much, but it's about 4 inches from a pile of big rugs, so...... will get on that when the day cools a bit.

Figuring out new bed and bathroom layouts, where electricity goes, etc..... not hard.  Just has to be thought all the way through and clearly communicated before info needed.


We're going into larger town to pick up building supplies today.  Maybe heading back home tomorrow. 

We've been moved to every other week appointments with the Nutritional Response Practitioner, which is a relief.

When we go back to Atlanta, we'll plan to hit the GA Aquarium, Center for Puppetry arts (eek) and our favorite restaurant in the world... Canton Cooks.  SO GOOD!  Not healthfood, but we're being so careful right now..... a little bobble every now and again doesn't set us back enough to deter us and we work harder the rest of the time to eat pristine.

I hope your housing search turns up something unexpected and happy very soon.

Lighter

[lighter]

CB:

DD going to be an optometrist..... not osteo.  She's not gettig paid much at all to work at the eye clinic.  She wants to build a career, an perhaps a business.  Will see. 

I won't be going to Galveston in the summer months, for sure.  Will wait for cooler weather.  Same with the island....will likely go in January, after New Years.  I'm honestly a little concerned about my ability to DO nothing while on the island. I feel like I'd have to at least paint the guest house interior..... at least. Maybe not. Will be making the most of time with the girls....learning to get our own fish and lobsters..... maybe spearfish a bit.  I've never had time to do that..... have always felt unhappy about depending on others to fish for me, etc.

I believe we have a great Osteo program at a local University near us.  Wouldn't it be amazing if one of the girls chose that?

The pug was cared just fine. DD18 and I took her in together. It's easier if one person has the towel and pug under control while someone else drives.  I will say there was never any smell...before or after. I think the new food regime is helping with that.

Lighter

[lighter]

CB:

I can't keep orchids alive...... not past the stick phase, anyway.  I wish I could, bc I love buying and looking at them.  Just too sad to see them not come back once the blooms have fallen. Maybe there's a trick? 

A solarium sounds like it might be your ticket.  Sort of like a greenhouse you don't have to leave the house to access?  I'm fond of little ferns by the sink, but they don't usually make it long either.  I haven't figured out how to keep house plants going.

I have many tadpoles on the porch again this year.  I'm not feeling up to caring for them.  I'm afraid they're on their own. Will see how that goes.  There are several sizes in 2 containers.  The metal container has only one size....and not that many.  I usually feed them and clean containers, bc I'm afraid they'll run out of oxygen.

This year there's a lot of plant material and algea in each container.  Will be fun to see how quickly they go through it.  At that point I already know I won't be able to resist feeding them frozen spinach and moving most of them to a tall garbage container full of rain water for them to grow in. 

Well..... there it is.  I'm as co dependent as ever.... just making noises to stop.  I see that clearly now.  I can't even picture putting myself first in my life. 

I hope your house hunting goes well.  Rooting for you, always: ) 

::looking for coffee cup..... again::.

I didn't realize you were taking the classes.  My cousin's husband used to work in HR.  He really really hated letting people go/firing them.  It was excruciating for him.  I hope whatever you choose holds your attention and some joy.
Lighter

[lighter]

No boot in the butt, CB.  Sorry you've been in a spin, but its going to be unrelenting kindness to yourself gets you moving in the right feeling direction, IME.  Why are we so very tough on ourselves?

As for the plants..... I think I'm under too many old oaks to get enough indirect light in the house to sustain plant life.  I think.  Not sure.  Maybe I overwater. I once saw someone grow an orchid, bloom after bloom, and they weren't under any trees when they did it.  I might try one more time..... bringing in the fertilizer..... to see what happens.  They're so pretty.

The tadpoles worry me.  I feel responsible for them.... agressive little voracious eaters.  They're like little faery folk..... one day they magially turn into little jewel box green frogs...... so special.  It's over so quickly.  Like it never happened. 

How's the house hunt going?

Lighter

[lighter]

 Well,now I know why nana could keep that orchid alive.  No trees on that end of the lake house.  Mystery solved. 

I thought it was just me, sabotaged by those Youtube vids and ice cube waterings; )

Lightr

[lighter]

For reasons I don't want to go into, I worked out a new meatball recipe this afternoon. 

I just finished cooking them off on the stove top. Some of the larger ones were caramelized each side for 2 minutes then finished in a 400 degree oven while I continued frying the next batch.  Pretty much a timer set at 2 minute increments moved me along without pause.

Ingredients

4 lbs ground turkey
5 lbs ground grass fed beef
1 lb ground pork
3 cups freshly shredded parm.... not necessary, turns out!
8 eggs
3/4 cup ground flax seed
3/4 cup ground chia seed
water added slowly to chia/flax/greens mixture to mimic bread soaked in milk
2 large clamshells mixed greens chopped
5 onions minced
8 cloves garlic minced
ghee for cooking
half cup MCT oil 

I used garlic salt, pink salt, onion powder, curry powder, poultry seasoning, paprika and fresh ground pepper.... a little hot pepper for interest. I season as I go.... everything going in the pan gets seasoned.

Chop the onion small enough for meatballs and cook on mdm high heat in ghee.  I chopped the garlic as onions cooked then chopped the greens when garlic cooked. It was almost a paste.  Season as you go means you aren't guessing or trying to mix 10 lbs of meat at once. 

Turn off heat and add the ground chia and flax seed to the greens and stir. Once it gets thick, add a cup of water at a time til it stops getting thick and stabilizes.  I wanted it to be the consistency of bread mixed with milk to add moisture.

I like to make batches.... 5 lbs is about all you want to mix at a time, IME.  Splitting the meat and greens in half, I mixed 2 big batches and cooked off a meatball of each to check seasoning.  Getting the salt right is important.

If you're making larger meatballs, preheat oven to 400 and prepare a pan with parchment or foil. 

2 minutes each side, on high heat, gives a lovely crust.  If not cooked through I pop in the oven while the next batch cooks on stovetop. 

The mixture is a bit on the wet side,but turns out so moist and flavorful. 

I used a large spoon to drop whatever size meatball I wanted into the hot ghee, careful not the crowd the pan.  Maybe 6 large meatballs or 9 smaller ones at a time.   

High heat the entire time means you can't leave the stove till it's done.

I freeze 2 big bags of meatballs and put one in the fridge.

Next time I'll use more chia/flax/ greens/veggies.  Maybe I'll add other veggies. 

Making batches flavored with curry...... Vietnamese curry with cinammon and clove...... thai curry...... talian seasoning with parm cheese..... maybe some cajun flavors..... spicy ones....... to mix things up.

I can't think of any way to make these without meat, Hops.

Lighter