and the n gets off scot-free...

[write]

had an experience and a half this morning in comign to terms with latest n in social situation.
Bearing in mind most of my friends know what happened, how hurt I was etc.
Not that I expected them to take sides & ignore him totally, or his woman.

But what happened instead felt like to me they went round smarming everyone and I ended up feeling a bit like the ancient mariner, being avoided in case I 'stoppeth one of three!'

I am trying to make light of it, but it was the most hurtful thing that's happened so far: suddenly not knowing whose reality I was in not just for myself and a n, but for a load of people I hold dear.

[Anonymous]

I am very sorry Write... it is so hard to see friends 'side' with someone who has abused you, especially when you have been abused in their very presence.

GFN and bunny should have some good thoughts to share on this, ditto several other folks. I'm in the midst of loosing - not losing, but setting loose - a friendship that's been similarly onesided, so I'm too close to the same situation to be much use right now. But I can send you a cyberhug and the sad assurance that you are not alone.

((((((((((Write))))))))))

[Jaded911]

I know how that feels.  Have you ever wondered during or after a situation like that if it is you who has lost touch with reality?  At one time I started to think, dang is it me in lala land or are these people just not getting this picture?  I just had to keep telling myself to remember the facts.  Remember the facts as I knew them, not as the distorted version he tried to get me to believe.

Just remember this hun, how many other girls did he tell you about in the beginning of your relationship?  How many of those girls did he speak kindly about?  How many did he call psychotic, nuts, stalkers, etc.....
That new girls day is coming.  Hold your head up high because one day she will look back and she will realize how flipn brave you were to be in his presence at all.  You will be emotionally healed and she will be walking in your foot steps.

[write]

what a breath of fresh air to know people really understand.

How many did he call psychotic, nuts, stalkers, etc.....

it was exactly that made me call it a day!
His attitude to all these 'terrible' women made me see- I was just another in a long line to him.

I guess friends just aren't in the same relationship so can take the benefits and ignore the narcissism.

I'm wondering whether it will make me rethink a few friendships too though; I deserve some loyalty from my friends surely? They don't have to be hard on the guy- but why support him and puff him up in my presence?

A lot of me wonders how much of this is Americans, the least genuine most superficial race ever existed on earth.

Maybe that's something all americans on this board should consider as they work through their problems- it's not you, but your culture.

[Anonymous]

A lot of me wonders how much of this is Americans, the least genuine most superficial race ever existed on earth.

Maybe that's something all americans on this board should consider as they work through their problems- it's not you, but your culture.

You are seriously going to blame this incident on Americans and then insult them??! Please. Here is how I would deal with this: (a) I would be very honest about whether these friends have shown tendencies toward fair-weatheredness in the past. I would wonder whether I was expecting too much from them, based on past history. I would also question going to any social events where this N would be, unless I was prepared in advance by having some friend promise to stay by my side, or by promising myself to leave the minute it got uncomfortable, or whatever. I don't know whether the N needs to be punished, he's just living his life. You can make new choices about how/when/where to expose yourself to him.


bunny

[mum]

This is tough stuff, Write.  I know, my ex's wife did a "shoo shoo" movement with her hands to me when she caught her husband's eye the other night....as I spoke with some old friends after my son's concert.  What an idiot.  I am alone at these things, or perhaps with my daughter, but he and his wife (the leiutenant) are always together, with scowls on thier faces.  It will always be this way, and it does get easier with time.
I even have a sister and brother in law that my ex visits...it's dicey, that relationship now....but what can I do?

Just hold your head high, sweetie.  He is a loser, so what if he has to show up with arm candy or whatever she is .....you don't have to, and don't need his crap anymore.  I know it hurts.  It won't forever...and it helps if you can avoid those situations. Thank God you don't share kids with him.

PS: I'm laughing at the American thing......(yup, I confess to being American, of wholesome Irish descent however!!!) Don't worry about it.
It's like saying the English have bad teeth......totally ridiculous really.

[write]

the english do have bad teeth- compared to americans!

I do find it hard sometimes in this culture- the way people can be so friendly but not friends.

There is a superficiality here in the US, and that's not to be insulting. Most people posting here have bent over backwards to be genuine and try to help and love others, I know that.

I think I need to cut my losses here, and just not show up anywhere he's likely to be.

Even to my friends his behaviour is so subtle, almost imperceptible, I know it makes me look like some obsessed nut to be getting upset every time he's around...

[Anonymous]

I'm glad you toned it down. I don't think Americans are a race, I don't think they're any of the stuff you said either. We have friendships that are as deep as anyone's. If your friends are disloyal to you, it's not because of their nationality. I hope everything works out and you don't have to see the N again.

bunny

[mudpup]

Hi write,

You can't count on people to detect what is obvious to you. You have had to live with it, they haven't. And you can't count on them to back you up if they do see it. Not many people want to fight another's fight or get their head shot off for what they see as very little gain. Ns are masters of exploiting human nature. My own sisters and mother can't even see what they're involved with.

I have had people from other countries comment on the lack of deep involvement by Americans in each other's lives.
I don't think it is simply superficiality though.
Unlike most countries we are made up of hundreds of different cultures and that can lead to a certain stand offishness. And we are a highly mobile country so many neighborhoods turn over so much that there is little continuity in relationships.
Maybe most important there is a very strong grain of individuality in Americans. In a lot of people this is manifested as a desire not to become too involved in others business or have others involved in ours. I suspect what you see as superficiality, a lot of Americans see as good etiquette.
In my personal experience Americans are generally somewhat standoffish in a lot of social situations, but extraordinarily generous and willing to lend a hand when someone is in need. I don't think that is very N like.
Every country is culturally different, but its the same human nature underneath. Nobody's got a monopoly on virtue or vice.

mudpup

[cosmic joe]

well first off
i think americans do tend more to superficial
than some cultures

but love the topic thread how n's
while they are doing damage
can appear to be the hero
and actually often believe it themselves


it can be like u know
so infuriating
above is my best imitation of
superficial valley talk
arent i like just so awesome

[write]

about this, and she said she thinks he is a jerk! but he's also got many good points...

True, so long as you're not in a relationship with him!

I'm just going to avoid.

And as for americans- I'm getting better at recognising those people who are deeper and make good friendships. I do know some wonderful people here too.

The funny thing is- that was what drew me to ex-n, he seemed so sincere and thoughtful, not obsessed with appearances or money...'course it was all a script, and one he's used again and again by all accounts.

I really thought I had it nailed, how to recognise and avoid n-people, but I guess- still needs more work...

[Anonymous]

Hiya Write:

I am trying to make light of it, but it was the most hurtful thing that's happened so far: suddenly not knowing whose reality I was in not just for myself and a n, but for a load of people I hold dear.

That crazy feeling again.  Not only do these people act weird and make us feel crazy, but they look normal and convince others of how wonderful they are, just like they did to us to begin with, and.....

wait a minute.....maybe that's it??  People fall for their junk because they don't like with the N and know his/her real self.  Maybe they, deep down inside, don't really believe us???      

Bad enough to endure stuff from and N, and then find the courage to go on, after the relationship blossoms with some other poor sucker......but then to think our friends don't really believe what we've been through???

Write.  (((((((((Write))))))))))).  It hurts to see this behaviour in our friends....to witness him looking like prince charming while we frogs sit in the sidelines and watch all our friends admire his fine attire.

That's all it is, Write.....attire.  He's dressed up.
He's got his mask on and his normal suit...so he looks......regular.
As soon as he gets home......he takes all of that off, a little at a time, and eventually....it will be clear what is really underneath it all.

Still.....it hurts.  Friends are supposed to back us up.  Personally, I don't need friends who don't back me up, believe my stuff, share my pain (not just my joy--which I share lot's of).  I admit.....it's a choice.  Friends can be just a social interactivity or a source of deep, emotional connection and real relationships.  Does that American thing extend up here to Canada?

I can't say.  I think you have a right to feel whatever you feel Write.

And I think you have given yourself the answers by:

1.  Avoiding further opportunities for Mr. Prince to play in the same room as you.

and

2.  Possibly, re-evaluate some of your friendships and re-organize into subgroups---those you feel a real connection with who support you, those who are just interesting/fun/entertaining to be around, and those who qualify for neither group.

Nothing wrong with those two plans.  Good for you, as a matter of fact!!!  You've found solutions that sound reasonable and doable, if you ask me.  I would only add:

3.  Maybe join some new activity/group/whatnot and see if you can widen the horizon....meet new people.....maybe even a new friend or two?  Build something new into your life?

Hope you are feeling better Write.  

GFN

[Anonymous]

wait a minute.....maybe that's it?? People fall for their junk because they don't like with the N

       

should read.......don't....live....with the N....

GFN

[write]

I am: at least now I know what the pattern is, and what to expect.

Of course what's really frustrating me is, despite my increased awareness, I attract another narcissist the moment I am feeling confident to have another relationship, to expand my circle...

But at least I didn't carry it on for years this time, or let it screw me up too much!

And it does reconfirm my belief- it's better to be alone any night, than in a bad relationship.

Thanks y'all.

[Stormchild]

And it does reconfirm my belief- it's better to be alone any night, than in a bad relationship.

Write - IMO - It's better to be alone every night, than to have to put up with an N.

Glad you're feeling better.