Figuring myself out

[Rb]

Hello all,

  I am brand new here, and I have only been researching narcissism for a few days now. Just so you can understand a little bit about who I am, I'm a 21-year-old college student. All my life, I've felt that something is different about me and found that I care a lot more about others' feelings than my own. I've searched over the years for an answer, even taking a few psychology courses, but I gained no understanding of my mind.  A few days ago, a friend of mine labeled my personality type as 'amiable.' I was curious as to why, so I looked up the information I needed online.  Somehow or another, I came across a site describing the narcissist. As I read on about this personality disorder, I seemed to relate to each line more and more..
  Now that I've learned a bit, I am realizing that my father is an N. And I am realzing that the N that I may be becoming today may have come from him. I don't view this an an excuse for who I am, but simply as an attempt to gain understanding. My dad always had pretty high expectations for me. He wanted to be able to talk about me with his coworkers and show me off to the neighborhood. I became extremely shy and wanted nothing to do with it. He's always been extremely talkative and will create "small" lies around fact to manipulate conversation to his needs. He never seemed to show much emotion. I saw him cry when his mom passed away and when our family dog parted. He gets mad very easily at my sister, mom, and I for stupid things that are barely worth speaking about, let alone yelling about. If I criticize him in any way, his face will immidiately look angry like I just stole his wallet. Because of this, there has always seemed to be a lot of tension and agression between my father and I. He would set limits and I would try to bypass them. We would argue, and we would both always have to be right. Around the time I was in middle school, when I would do something wrong and saw punishment coming, I would sometimes go into a rage until it was my mom who was comforting me. I think this was because she could see something in my dad that was causing me to act this way. Her comfort conditioned me to use this behaviour when needed. Eventually, with maturity I stopped these destructive behaviours.
  I seem to have entered the "real world" (or going away to college) as myself AND as the image of the son my father wanted me to be. My father wanted me to work hard for success and settle for nothing short of that. For some reason, I could never seem to pull off good grades.. ever since the end of elementary school. I could start off a semester working hard.. and then maybe a month or so in I would get bored with routine and want a change. Routine has always been such a HARD thing for me to grasp. I absolutely despise it. I can work hard for a week, and then feel bored and needy of change. The week after I might take a few days off just to relax to myself and change things up a bit. This sets me up poorly in any school or work situation. As time went on, I seemed to separate more and more from my False Self (the image of my father's perfect son.) On the outside, the son was working hard to achieve goals. On the inside, I didn't understand what was wrong with me. I told myself this is something everyone goes through, and that its a simple phase in life. I feel that if I were to now show my parents my last grade report, they may disapprove of me forever. My biggest wish in life is that my parents could see me for who I really am and be proud of me. I feel that my parents may no longer know the real me.. they haven't even seen my room for almost a year now (I live in a house with a few friends).
  Although I have not explained them all here, I seem to have many of the signs of a NP. As I read down lists of the signs, I feel I relate so well. I always seem to look for the easy way out, as long as my False Self is preseved. I talked to my best friend last night, and told him everything I could explain. He found it interesting and listened very well. However, he could not relate or give any advice, but I let him know that I didn't expect him to do that. I think admitting this to myself was the first step, and to my best friend was the second, this may be the third.. My case is not nearly as bad as some I've read about on forums like these. People in their 40s talk about decades of this disorder building a False Self.. that's just not where I want to end up.. I want to be the true me and discover exactly who that is.

Thanks for listening.

[October]

Hello all,

  I am brand new here, and I have only been researching narcissism for a few days now. Just so you can understand a little bit about who I am, I'm a 21-year-old college student. All my life, I've felt that something is different about me and found that I care a lot more about others' feelings than my own.

Thanks for listening.

Hiya

The impression I am left with after reading your post is of a young man who has been in a struggle for existence for years and years.  There was a lot of tension there; like a wrestling match.

If you are only just learning about Ns and their influence, clearly there is a journey of discovery in front of you, which will help you to resolve a lot of the conflicts.  One thing I will say now, though, is that if you focus your needs onto your parents - in wanting or needing them to see the 'real you' - then you may well never achieve that goal.  They are 2 dimensional people living in a 3 dimensional world, and cannot see further than their own limitations.  They look fine from the front, but when you look closely they are made of paper, no depth; no authenticity.

Almost as difficult for many of us is to find out for ourselves who we are.  The person you do not have to fight to be, but the person who you become when you stop fighting.

In considering for yourself whether you are N or not, I would suggest that you think about whether your father ever said the things you are saying, or would be likely now to seek to find his true authentic self.  Or whether he considers other people's feelings more than his own.  Those are not very N things to do.   

I struggle myself to know who I am, other than a shadow in relation to the main players on the stage.  One way is to ask your friends; those who know and love you.  Another is to find out what you love to do, whether you do it well or not.  Alternatively, find out who you are not, starting with you are not your father.
 
 

[crookedsmile]

Hi RB.  You know, I didn't start to try to figure myself out until I was 32, and it has been a life-long, sometimes scary, many times rewarding path.  Beginning to be self-aware and beginning the search for your authentic true self at your age gives you a big head start.  Keep asking and looking and I truly believe insight and answers will come.  I admire your willingness to start early in your life.  

[bunny]

Welcome Rb,

You aren't a narcissist. You have suffered narcissistic injuries. That means your ego structure has been hurt by your father's rage and unreasonable demands. Have you considered seeing a counselor or therapist at college?? It could help you tremendously. We all have a false self - that doesn't make us narcissists. A narcissist is someone who cannot at all access their vulnerable feelings. You are accessing yours in a big way. Thanks for joining us!

bunny

[Sallying Forth]

  Now that I've learned a bit, I am realizing that my father is an N. And I am realzing that the N that I may be becoming today may have come from him. I don't view this an an excuse for who I am, but simply as an attempt to gain understanding. My dad always had pretty high expectations for me. He wanted to be able to talk about me with his coworkers and show me off to the neighborhood. I became extremely shy and wanted nothing to do with it. He's always been extremely talkative and will create "small" lies around fact to manipulate conversation to his needs. He never seemed to show much emotion.

For some reason, I could never seem to pull off good grades.. ever since the end of elementary school. I could start off a semester working hard.. and then maybe a month or so in I would get bored with routine and want a change. Routine has always been such a HARD thing for me to grasp. I absolutely despise it. I can work hard for a week, and then feel bored and needy of change. The week after I might take a few days off just to relax to myself and change things up a bit. This sets me up poorly in any school or work situation.

My biggest wish in life is that my parents could see me for who I really am and be proud of me. I feel that my parents may no longer know the real me.. they haven't even seen my room for almost a year now (I live in a house with a few friends).

People in their 40s talk about decades of this disorder building a False Self.. that's just not where I want to end up.. I want to be the true me and discover exactly who that is.

Thanks for listening.

Welcome Rb, I'm new here too.

I used to say my father was as emotional as a picture on the wall. No depth. No compassion. No empathy. Just flat.

I can so much relate to your biggest wish in life-to be seen as you really are. My journey has been to learn that it is I that needs be seen in myself as I am. I that needs to accept and love me for who I am. And the only way I found that was through seeing a very intelligent and supportive therapist. He gave me the mirror I needed to reflect back my true self. I found the way or method in which to do it.

It is possible that your inability to stick with a routine may be temperment or personality style or as I call it, the way in which I interact with my world. Have you ever taken a temperment test? Could be rebellion or could be the way you are made.

I don't do routine well either but that doesn't mean I can't work or go to school or be successful in my life. Rather, for me, it means I need to find my niche in life: the kind of work and environment where I thrive. I have come full circle to find this. It is what came natural to me as a child. It is also that which both of my Nparents told me I couldn't do if I wanted to make a living. I've since realized that's a load of crap!!!

I'm one of those 40 something people, 52 this year. My journey began when I turned 21 and I saw my first therapist. I walked into her office, sat down and began to cry. I cried every time I walked into her office. That was 3 times a week for 3 weeks. After that I finally spoke my first words. She was the first person who "saw" me.

It's been a long, long journey to become the me that I was meant to be but overall it has been good.

[Brigid]

Welcome Rb,
I have a son who is about your age and I have had worries recently about his potential for becoming an N based on his father and both grandfathers falling into that category.  I discussed it with him the other day (we have discussed the diagnosis made by my T that his father is n) and told him of my concerns based on some behaviors I have seen him demonstrate lately.  He got tears in his eyes and I know I put a fear there that he hadn't considered before.  It is hard at your age to make this kind of diagnosis, as healthy n characteristics tend to be inflated by particularly males in their early 20's, imo. 

I agree with Bunny that you are not an n, but someone who has suffered narcissistic injury.  Many of us who have been damaged by n's, have fear of being one or giving birth to one.  I have offered my son therapy since his father walked out nearly 2 years ago.  He did see a counselor one time at college, but does not feel he needs it on a regular basis at this time.  I hope that if you are struggling with this situation, that you will seek some counseling and begin your healing process.  There is great hope for you to lead a very healthy and happy life if you can deal with your issues now.  I wish you well and hope you will continue to come here and post your fears and concerns.

Blessings,

Brigid

[mudpuppy]

Hi Rb,

A few days ago, a friend of mine labeled my personality type as 'amiable.'

I wouldn't worry too much about being an N if your friend thinks you're 'amiable'.

Ns are a whole lot of things, but amiable is definitely not one of them. Not no way, not no how.
Some may come across as slickly charming, but they're about as amiable as a barracuda in a barrel of goldfish.

mudpup

[Sallying Forth]

Ns are a whole lot of things, but amiable is definitely not one of them. Not no way, not no how.
Some may come across as slickly charming, but they're about as amiable as a barracuda in a barrel of goldfish.

mudpup

mudpup,
Thanks for the laugh! I needed that!

[write]

honey, n's don't breed n's: but they do breed people who care more about others' feelings than their own! ( could there be a less n-description?! )

Most of us here could talk about a 'false self' in terms of pretending everything's ok/ things feeling unreal/ or submerging our real selves and emotions...

That's not n-ism.

A personality disorder is a collection of behaviour characteristics which do not alter with time or experience.

Narcissistic personality disorder is characterised by grandiose gestures instead of real feelings, an unrealistic sense of entitlement and a lack of empathy.

I really don't think you're a narcissist.

[chutzbagirl]

Hi Rb,

Welcome to the board.     I knew something was wrong by the time I entered college as well.  Recovering from the impact of a N parent takes time, but you are worth all the time it will take.  Don't worry, you're not N.    A N would never question their own sanity because all the problems are other people's fault.  Carrying the blame and shame of a N parent can make us feel we are the 'crazy' ones.   

Although I am still surprised by my own denial and codependency at times, I know that every bit of recovery I started way back when has helped me to be the person I am today.  My N Mom and relatives have helped me to become strong, honest, empathic, and creative.  Altough I am no longer in relationship with them, I still wish the best for them.  It's tough to be the generation that breaks the chains of dysfunction, but it's wonderful to watch my children develop and experience the childhood I never had. 

Take care and I hope you stick with your recovery.  I have found 12 step groups and counseling to be essential to my growth and release from emotional turmoil. 

All the best,

chutzbagirl

[wanderer]

Rb:

You are SO lucky. You figured it out early in life. Myself, i just figured it out now and I an 40 years old. I cannot begin to tell you the damage it has caused in my life (or lack thereof). So many lost opportunities, so many bad days and nights, so many images of worthlessness, and the list goes on.

My advice to you is simple.

1. Determine if your father is truely a narcissist.
2. If he is, then decide if he has any redeeming qualities that you find useful to your happiness (I think if you carefully analyze him you will find he does not, its all a show to achieve his desired end.)
3. Have sympathy for him because he lives a very bleak life in reality (but of course he fights this reality minute by minute just to get by and lives in his own world.)
4. Most importantly, stay away from him as much as possible.
5. Become YOU (open your mind as much as possible and seek your true self out, the one you know is deep inside you but that you have been supressing to pleae others.)

I hope this helps!!!

P.S. This is not easy, I am still trying to get by step 3 and having great difficulty. Perhaps it will be easier for you.

[Sela]

Hi Rb:

Just want to say welcome to the board and add my vote to the "you are not an N" tally.  N's never admit such a fault as possibly being N.  They blame and point fingers but never at themselves.

Good for you for seeking to learn more about your true self.  That's a good thing.  I hope, though, that you won't be too hard on yourself on that journey.  Is it possible that you have built your false self as a response, as a way to defend yourself/cope with stress?  If so, it might be easier to unravel that false stuff, once the stress is gone (if you can distance yourself from it).   Good for you for posting here.

  Sela

[Rb]

Everyone,

Thanks for all the replies. They truely helped me understand the difference between an N and I. I now realize that, even with the possibility of my father being an N, I am truely not. I have learned more about myself in the last few days than I have ever learned. All of a sudden, after doing some simple research on the net, everything started to make sense. You see, my problem is a little different.

I have one other sibling, my sister, who is a couple years younger than I am. When we were younger, in the grade school years, I used to bully and tease her a lot, as I'm sure a lot of children that age seem to do. I would tease, get punished, tease, punished, etc. I had an extremely low self confidence, and a pretty low self esteem. Eventually, I learned about the 'white lie'. I could exaggerate a fact, or just plain make one up. I could tell my parents "I didn't do it," and found myself able to get away with a few things. I would do this once in awhile (not quite compulsively), but would feel extremely guilty afterwards. This guilt would create a mess and struggle in my head. I felt I could blend in easier when I lied, or stretched the truth, even a little. My father always seemed to have these high expectations for me, and I wanted to meet them to preserve the general "flow" of things in my house.. such as my parents' happiness with me. I would always tell myself that I need to stop doing these bad things I was doing and getting away with, and felt there was something wrong with me. I felt myself becoming trapped inside a shell of lies, almost like a shield keeping the world from finding out any of my imperfections. Maybe now you can see why I started reading about being an N. I had built up this image of being such a great son, doing nothing wrong in life. This is when I started pushing my parents away from me. Lying, or bending the truth, around my parents hurt me so much that I would rather push them out of my life than have to give them a lie. I would stay in my room or in the basement all day minding my own business. When I had friends over, I wanted my parents to stay as far away as possible. My dad would make me so angry when he would come talk to my friends. He would ask the nosiest questions and just talk excessively in general about things my friends had no interest in. I guess I figured he might just find the real me if he looked hard enough. This would go on for years and years. I would not lie to everyone though. I would lie mostly to my parents to get out of things, and to any authority figures I felt I needed to. I would not lie to my sister, or to my best friend (I admitted to him last night the one lie I told him last year), or to my friends in general. If you think about a lie on a scale from being 100% lie to 0% lie (absolute truth), I would always try to lie as close to the truth as possible. This is because I would feel so much guilt that I would lay there in bed at night trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I would go on being sad for long periods of time, but I would not let anyone know. I felt that everyone went through similar times, and I had no right to complain anymore than any other person. I enjoyed being the good friend who would listen and offer good advice. I would wear a mask that people felt comfortable with. I believe that the reason I didn't completely lose it is that I knew there was something wrong all along, but I always seemed to blame other things when I felt this way. Very few people knew the real me. My sister, my best friend, maybe one or two others in my life.

That's basically how it all started. And now I sit here admitting it, not only to myself, but to my best friend, and to you all. Tonight, I am taking my mother out to dinner where my best friend works. My plan is to tell her what I have done; to show what I have learned, and that I am deeply sorry for any harm I have caused. More than that, I want to show her that I am not ashamed of who I am, but proud of what I have now done. My past may not look so great, especially in a society quick to hate a liar, but now I know this: my future holds no bounds. I can turn this creative monster into a creative masterpiece. I finally feel in the driver's seat of my life, and I;ve never felt better. I feel a return to an "old" me, one who is fun, honest, and loving. I am now taking a mental tally of every little "mistruth" I tell (and I realize that everyone tells one here and there), but I feel that I am much more aware that way of a mistake I could make. I would like to say "I will never do this again.. I will never do that again.." but that can only be seen in time.

Thank you for being so supportive through my new findings. I hold you all in my heart, and that's no lie.

[Brigid]

Rb,
I'm glad that by posting here you have been able to shed some light on what is going on inside.  You must have an amazing level of maturity and insight to have figured these things out at such a young age. 

It will be interesting to see how your mother reacts to your revelations.  I hope she will be supportive of your quest for "the truth" and an understanding of your struggles.  Sometimes we moms think all our geese are swans and can't imagine that our children would be devious or untruthful.

I wish you well as you continue on your journey.  Telling the truth does make life a whole lot easier and even though you will always have regrets about how some things turn out, you need never be ashamed that you were not at least honest.

Blessings,

Brigid

[bunny]

Rb,

Your father/parents PUT YOU INTO AN IMPOSSIBLE BIND where you had to lie to survive. You aren't a bad person. You wanted to be real, but you couldn't in the situation you were in. I've lied a million times to my parents and I will again. I hope that your mom respects what you're doing as it is very courageous.

bunny