My inquiry is sincere Pls tell me what life is like without belief in God/heaven

[Gabben]

As I recall, during the time of this thread creation, on December 16, 2007

there was a particular issue being discussed, in general, regarding "in your face" type of postings, i.e. with all or lots of Capital Letters

especially with lots of scriptures quoted etc., all in capital letters.

Which, all in all, was resolved with dignity and poise, with an air of calm, peace, and serenity, for everyone, across the board.

Just felt led to mention.

Love to all,

Leah

What are you saying here Leah?  I am only hearing what you are NOT saying? Please use your precious voice -- no matter what is says, expresses or feels your voice is valued even if it is a hurting or human voice....We care about your voice...your voice is important...we want to hear your whole voice and heart...your core is OK.

Just trying to not enable here...

Lise

[Hermes]

""The word "heresy" comes from the Greek αἵρεσις, hairesis (from αἱρέομαι, haireomai, "choose"), which means either a choice of beliefs or a faction of believers. It was given wide currency by Irenaeus in his tract Contra Haereses (Against Heresies) to describe and discredit his opponents in the early Christian Church. He described his own position as orthodox (from ortho- "right" + doxa "belief") and his position eventually evolved into the position of the early Christian Church.

Used in this way, the term "heresy" has no purely objective meaning: the category exists only from the point of view of speakers within a group that has previously agreed about what counts as "orthodox". Any nonconformist view within any field may be perceived as "heretical" by others within that field who are convinced that their view is "orthodox"; ""

"The word occult is derived from the Latin word occultus which means "hidden"

"Consider a person who joins an adult religion class at their local church and is taught special techniques of effective prayer -- methods that are unique to that church and not generally available to outsiders. This activity would meet all of the three criteria for the Occult: it has to be taught; it can be a silent prayer - a means of communicating without spoken words; it is directed at God."

[Ami]

I was thinking about Chandra Levy"s mother  when her D was murdered. I saw her on a  news show  and she had gone off the deep end. She was banging an Indian drum and talking really strangely.
  With Scott, *I* feel horrible today,but I know Scott is fine.
  So, *I* have to heal, but I don't have to worry about his well being, today.MY  rise up "from the ashes" is another story(lol)
                                                                            Ami

[Hermes]

Hello to all:

Grief can send people to seek comfort where they can.  It can be overpowering.

Thinking of you Ami.
Hermes

“I am safe
I am me
All is well
Blessed be”

[write]

she had gone off the deep end.

that's what I am finding in my interfaith search about other people's religious practices and rituals as opposed to the underlying beliefs which are strangely familiar- they can seem weird. But ours do to other people from different cultures too!

[Hermes]

Yes, Write.  You said it.

All the best
Hermes

[reallyME]

Thank you all for your comments on this thread.

I have to use the computer at the library for now and I rarely get here to do so, so that is why you haven't heard from me.
When the electric company changed our meter on the house, he also fried my computer video card and power source.  I am currently without any online service whatsoever and my computer is still in the shop pending payment from the electric company for repairs.

Right now, my faith in God, literal heaven, literal hell is stronger than ever.  Can I PROVE these exist, no.  I just choose to believe that there is such a wondrous place with golden roads and flowing greenery and a punishment for the truly evil-hearted of this world.

Hugs n blessya'll
~Laura

[Hermes]

I understand you, Bella.  And like you, I let go, and I do have an open mind. 
The world is full of strange and wonderful things, yet there are so many mysteries.  I do tend to become very "ticked" by those who are in possession of the "TRUTH", and think everyone else is some kind of heathen.

Best wishes
Hermes

On being an agnostic:


""In an 1896 lecture titled Why I Am An Agnostic, Ingersoll related what led him to believe in agnosticism and articulated that belief with:

Is there a supernatural power—an arbitrary mind—an enthroned God—a supreme will that sways the tides and currents of the world—to which all causes bow? I do not deny. I do not know—but I do not believe. I believe that the natural is supreme—that from the infinite chain no link can be lost or broken—that there is no supernatural power that can answer prayer—no power that worship can persuade or change—no power that cares for man.
I believe that with infinite arms Nature embraces the all—that there is no interference—no chance—that behind every event are the necessary and countless causes, and that beyond every event will be and must be the necessary and countless effects.
Is there a God? I do not know. Is man immortal? I do not know. One thing I do know, and that is, that neither hope, nor fear, belief, nor denial, can change the fact. It is as it is, and it will be as it must be.
In the conclusion of the speech he simply sums up the agnostic belief as:

We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know.

[mudpuppy]

It is not correct to say there is no evidence to support belief in God. It is correct to say God's existence cannot be proven as fact.
Nor is it correct to maintain that because the existence of God cannot be proven as fact that therefore the only reasonable position is unbelief. Many of the most intelligent and reasonable minds in history have firmly believed in God and many of the things we quite reasonably take for granted every day cannot be proven s fact.

Nor does the declaration that 'truth' does not exist mean that it doesn't. It may be reasonable to maintain that one doesn't know what it is, but it is a large jump to say there is no truth or that all beliefs are equally valid.

I find my faith supported by an enormous amount of evidence and quite reasonable. It is not a mere choice for me but is compelled by the evidence. In fact, considering the stakes, I find faith more reasonable than agnosticism. Pascal was no fool.

mud

[Hermes]

Hello Mud:

I don't think the idea here is to debate belief.  That is certainly not my intention.  Intelligent people believe in all kinds of things, or not, as the case might be.  I just wish to state my own stance, and I am doing so because other posters feel free to state their beliefs (very frequently I note).  I am entitled to my belief or lack thereof. 

Neither am I a fool.  To you faith may be more reasonable than agnosticism.  Maybe I just think the opposite, to which I am ENTIRELY entitled.

All the best
Hermes

[Gabben]

I do tend to become very "ticked" by those who are in possession of the "TRUTH", and think everyone else is some kind of heathen.

Best wishes
Hermes

Hi Hermes,

Yes, it is Ok for you to have a voice and just like it is OK for you to get bristled with antagonism when others speak of their truth it is Ok for us, with Faith, to feel a little persecuted or put off for statements like the one above.

It is OK to voice your dislike but be prepared for counter opinions and peoples voices to express back, especially when the subject is God.

Peace,
Lise

[Hermes]

Dear Lise:

At NO time have I "bristled with antagonism" or anything else, if other posters have made references to their faith, beliefs or religion.  I believe in freedom of religion, and freedom of belief. If others can state, as they do constantly (and that is fine by me) their prayers, beliefs, god, and so on, then is there some reason why I cannot state what my opinion is?  You will note I have only done so once, in the post above, to which Hops replied. Please do tell me if there is some prohibition on here (and I mean that sincerely) to speaking out about one's own beliefs, if they are other than the general flow.   

I have no antagonism to other's beliefs.  It is their own business what they believe.  However, I do take exception to indirectly being deemed a fool for my beliefs.  My opinion and my beliefs are just as valid as the next person's.

What I will not do is be drawn into a debate on religion.  It is always a futile exercise, which generally ends in people getting themselves into a state.  Sorry.

All the best
Hermes

[Gabben]

Dear Lise:

At NO time have I "bristled with antagonism" or anything else, if other posters have made references to their faith, beliefs or religion.  I believe in freedom of religion, and freedom of belief. If others can state, as they do constantly (and that is fine by me) their prayers, beliefs, god, and so on, then is there some reason why I cannot state what my opinion is?  You will note I have only done so once, in the post above, to which Hops replied. Please do tell me if there is some prohibition on here (and I mean that sincerely) to speaking out about one's own beliefs, if they are other than the general flow.   

I have no antagonism to other's beliefs.  It is their own business what they believe.  However, I do take exception to indirectly being deemed a fool for my beliefs.  My opinion and my beliefs are just as valid as the next person's.

What I will not do is be drawn into a debate on religion.  It is always a futile exercise, which generally ends in people getting themselves into a state.  Sorry.

All the best
Hermes

Hermes --  I understand, I was once an agnostic too.

Please read my post again - you will see that I never said you cannot state what you opinion is.

It seems to me that from other threads and posts you have been bringing up that people here talk a lot about God the bible and Christ and it seemed to bother you. I can recall you thread "Hermes again on January 13th you said:

Perhaps I should start out by saying I am not a very religious person, but hopefully a  spiritual person.  I was educated in an Irish convent boarding school, and that can have quite an effect on one's ideas (usually the opposite to what the dear nuns intended LOL).
I merely say this because I have noted references to religion, god and religious writers in some of the posts. I believe everyone should be entitled to his or her beliefs, or lack thereof, as the case may be.  Personally, I keep my beliefs and spirituality strictly to myself. 


It is clear to me that you were bringing up religion and expressing your antagonism...which is perfectly OK, normal and very agnostic like to feel when others are mentioning faith and speaking of God with such strong conviction.

Yet you are open-minded, as you say, and you are here and we value your voice and will listen to you.

Thanks (((Hermes)))
Lise

[Hermes]

Lise:

You call saying this ANTAGONISM!!  Because I say I keep my beliefs to myself?!  This is really terrible.  Either that, or it is true that we are divided by a common language LOL.
I repeat that everyone should be entitled to their beliefs, whether orthodox or as far out as you wish. As the saying goes:  I might not agree with what you say, but I would fight for your right to say it. 

""Perhaps I should start out by saying I am not a very religious person, but hopefully a  spiritual person.  I was educated in an Irish convent boarding school, and that can have quite an effect on one's ideas (usually the opposite to what the dear nuns intended LOL).
I merely say this because I have noted references to religion, god and religious writers in some of the posts. I believe everyone should be entitled to his or her beliefs, or lack thereof, as the case may be.  Personally, I keep my beliefs and spirituality strictly to myself.  """

What did I say antagonistic in that paragraph?  I said I was not a very religious person, and that is a fact.  No point in me being a hypocrite and saying otherwise.

It is a bit late here now (was working and checked in here before closing down), but I shall give a bit of background to you tomorrow, if you are interested, to the reasons why my beliefs are what they are.  If you feel it would be out of place for me to do so, then please tell me. 

All the best
Hermes

[Gabben]

Hi Hermes,

Please write tomorrow...I want and care about what you have to say.

Thanks and please have a good evening and peace you. I might not be online until tomorrow eve but I'll try to get back to you soon.

(((HERMES)))

Lise