Shame

[Ami]

Shame is kind of an "untouchable" topic. I actually was afraid to even think about it,much less talk about it. As I face it,I see that it IS a bogeyman who ONLY  stays big in darkness.
 I think that when we have problems in life, ,we are often  dealing with  our OWN shame.We see the problem as outside ourselves when it is inside ourselves(shame).  I see that when I run away from life, I am really only running away from my own shame. I don't want it triggered. IF I  could control the trigger button,I would not have to run..I  have run away for too long.
 I see how my life can be honed down to shame as being the single  driving force . I thought that I was "different". I thought that I had feelings that were worse than other people. I had to hide all the "differentness" so people would like me.
 I had a mask of "Miss Nice".Miss Nice had a long run and now I want to put her away. I am Miss Imperfect,now.
 There are so many "real" things to learn about in myself and  the world. I have to cast  off the "lies" that  my N M told me. She didn't know any better. She was a victim of her own demons . For me, I see that being an N is not a choice. . It is a person living while they are "drowning," at the same time. I feel a tremendous relief as I forgive my M.
I think that I can shed the skins she gave me. The worst one was shame.                 Ami
 

[gratitude28]

Ami,
I think shame is good - in appropriate amounts. Without it, we would be conscienceless beings. It is necessary. But some of us learn too much of it, since nothing we do ever seems right... I think it's all about learning proportion.
Love, Beth

[Ami]

You are right., Beth. If you have too little, you careen out of control. If you have too much, you careen out of control. I guess that most traits need to be balanced and shame is no different. I, for one, had  too much  and was off in a "ditch" on the side of the road, figuratively.                     Ami

[Leah]

There is a lot of confusion about "Shame" and "Guilt"

From the textbook of 'subtle power of abuse' .....


Shame = when you have done nothing wrong, you feel defective as a human being, as you have a negative picture of yourself.


Guilt = is a valuable signal indicating a wrong or bad behaviour.

Guilt is what you experience and feel when you do wrong and is a good moral nerve.

[Ami]

Dear Leah
 Mine was feeling defective as a human being..                               Ami

[reallyME]

no, shame is not good.  Conviction is good because it produces change.

[Ami]

Conviction feels good(uplifting). Shames feels horrible. I guess that is one way to tell the difference, Laura .                            Ami

[seasons]

Hi Ami,

This really resonated with me. I went through many years engulfed in SHAME. As I remember now wow was I in a lot of pain. I am grateful I do not live every day with that weight that made me act in live from the shadow of shame.
This was just my experience.

She was a victim of her own demons . For me, I see that being an N is not a choice. . It is a person living while they are "drowning," at the same time. I feel a tremendous relief as I forgive my M.
I think that I can shed the skins she gave me. The worst one was shame.                 Ami

I also think from my own N's that is not their choice. I have seen them try and ACT better, yet I see it as a mask. Are they trying to be better? I don't believe so. Sadly they may play ACT to get what they want. Oh the vicious cycle. Such a sad, disease, is it a disease?

((seasons))

[Ami]

Dear Seasons,
 Thank you for your response. For me, I have begun healing b/c I see (IMO) that my M cannot help it.I hated her for my whole life b/c I "thought" she withheld normal mothering---on purpose. I thought that she HAD  it IN her to mother me differently.
 I was in a crazy dance where if I ONLY could be good enough ,she would love me.I see that she was drowning,just as I was ( and am ONLY coming out of it,now)
 I really could not help how sick *I* was. I really could not  heal. The board was the first thing that really helped me. I just kept trying to face truth as a light out of the darkness .
  It has been SO slow,it seems to me, That is another reason that I forgive my M. If it is this slow for me, How slow would it be for her(if ever)?
                     Love    Ami

[towrite]

Ami - thanks for starting this thread. I am still - after MANY years of therapy - uncovering my shame in layers. It isn't something I can sit and think about - "when do I feel shame? About ...?" That doesn't work for me. I have begun to recognize it only at the time it's operating and reducing me. That's what my shame does - reduces me. It's amazing to me when I can feel it and recognize it after being so mute and powerful all those years in the past. I think its power over me is greatly diminished when I call it by name.

Onbe of John Bradshaw's books really educated me on shame, esp. in my little self. I think the title has the word 'Home' in it. Can't remember 'zackly.

[Ami]

Dear towrite,
  A friend helped me talk about it b/c I was too 'shamed" to EVEN mention the word(lol) I was" afraid "of the word. Now, that I can talk about it,it is diminished.
 I think that I am shamed just to "be". I guess that is what shame is-- the feeling that your "being" is bad.
 It is HARD when it is so ingrained in you. However,just talking about it,as you say, takes away some of the pain--simply by taking the shame out of the dark in to the light .                Love  Ami

(((((((((((((towrite)))))))))0

[reallyME]

Towrite:  wasn't that John Bradshaw book called THE HOMECOMING?

Ami: .I hated her for my whole life b/c I "thought" she withheld normal mothering---on purpose. I thought that she HAD  it IN her to mother me differently.

I can still remember the first time it "hit" me, that X was not being a kind mentor/friend to me, because she just didn't have it IN herself to be.  It was a very scary, disillusioning feeling; especially when I realized that no amount of reasoning, explaining my side, pointing out her illness to her, even prayer, would make a dang bit of difference.

~Laura

[Ami]

I think that the root of shame is really fear. The AA big book talks about hundreds of "self centered fears". Also, it says that we ALL can heal,if we will just be honest.
 For me, my new walk is to uproot fear. I am really a "fear" ball. I have, at times, been at peace. It has been when I "knew" ,in my deepest heart, that God loved me. If God loved me, no one could hurt me. It put me in an "untouchable " category.
 One Bible teacher went through Vietnam with no fear. He was almost killed and was "excited "about the possibility of  seeing  God. that day. He was praying for the "enemy" that THEY would find God. So, fear does not HAVE to be a controlling feature in life.
  One stewardess in the Sioux City crash had flames engulfing her arms. She looked at the flames, calmly and said,"Today,I will see God." To me, my "goal" would be to be THAT sure of God and of my place with Him. This is my new direction                             Ami