Author Topic: Lack of Entitlement to Our Feelilngs  (Read 2474 times)

Gaining Strength

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Lack of Entitlement to Our Feelilngs
« on: April 17, 2008, 12:22:20 PM »
LilyCat posted a reference to an article on "Entitlement" or more precisely, Lack of Entitlement to Our Feelings.  I read a portion of it and was hit hard by the profound points made.  It as taken me several days and several sittings to read the short article.  It really elucidated significant points and answered questions that I have agonized over for years. 

The article is: http://bapfelbaumphd.com/Entitlement_to_Feelings.html 


Here are some substantive sections.

THE NEED TO NOT UNDERSTAND (just past half-way)
What you find in those who want to act but find themselves unable to want to is that something is missing. It is an absence of inner congratulation, of an inner feeling of reward—something that, when it is present, functions smoothly and without notice. It should be familiar to students of object relations that when we are motivated to do something, it is to be approved of by an internal object, and the more we get this inner approval, the more independent we are of external approval. There are all kinds of other reasons people carry out willed actions, but when they can’t, a good place to look is at what is happening in the person’s relationship to internal objects.

the husband who berates his wife for not having dinner ready when he gets home, or the wife who berates her husband for getting home late without calling her and so dinner is burnt or cold. We simply condemn the complainer, which usually makes it impossible to see that their complaints are a symptom of low or depressive expectations—that is of not feeling entitled to their feelings, the consquence being that they have reduced the expression of their wishes—and probably their awareness of them as well—to these tokens.

LAURA’S CASE (near the end)

We need an example of how feeling unentitled to an experience keeps it from our conscious awareness, then affecting us indirectly.Then our ability to empathize and hence to understand is limited but we don’t know it. This is not a refusal to understand. What happens is that we develop a pseudo-understanding that is unwittingly condemnatory.

AN AUDIBLE CLICK
            I was proud of myself for being able to use identification to kind of make sense of a situation. I had lunch with Mona and she was kinda getting on my nerves, as she often does. I expressed an opinion and she went on and on about how that opinion couldn’t possibly—. She went on and on so much that I had this impulse to scream at her. I mean, "Don’t I get to have an opinion?" —you know. I felt I kind of—. [Here he seems free to be disgusted with her, contemptuous. Then:] Of course screaming at her wouldn’t produce much. Then I thought about how—I began to think about how—the vulnerability in her that requires her to eradicate any opinion that differs from her take. She just went on and on about how her opinion had to be the right one. And so as soon as I thought about her vulnerability, it was almost as if an audible click happened. It was like suddenly the whole situation came into focus and I could sit there and listen to her and kind of see this vulnerable girl just not in touch with her vulnerability at all, and just going on and on, from this way and that. But I could have compassion for her, and I began to enjoy the interaction. Really listen and nod and be able to really take in what she was saying. It was just really almost fun because I knew she had no insight into why—and this is a repeated thing where she just has to have the last word. And I could tell she felt identified with.


I*****
I really want to discuss this article with someone.  I so hope it will catch someone's attention who is willing to read it and talk about it.

Ami

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Re: Lack of Entitlement to Our Feelilngs
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2008, 12:48:07 PM »
Dear GS
 I WANT to discuss this article so badly if I could freaking understand it(LOL)        Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Gaining Strength

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Re: Lack of Entitlement to Our Feelilngs
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2008, 01:05:22 PM »
LOL - Well there is a lot of tongue in cheek stuff in it.  I'm going to be spending some time with it and when I can paraphrase it into a few words I'll come back and see if we can discuss it then.

You're too funny.
if I could freaking understand it(LOL)   

Gaining Strength

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Re: Lack of Entitlement to Our Feelilngs
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2008, 03:18:51 PM »
Yes PR - you got it.  Here is my lame attempt to "talk about it".  I'm on some strange planet with this.

   
I love his description of the "defensive overentitlement" because he gets at the convoluted nature of the whole process that most of us here have experienced. 
 The way defensive overentitlement plays out is that a man feels he is being denied something that he has a right to, that is owed to him, even that his partner is selfishly withholding sex, rather than that both partners are missing out. Seeing the partner as selfish rather than as also deprived indicates that these men are at risk for feeling selfish—which is to say, unentitled.

The point that he eventually makes is that the husband is entitled to his feeling of being deprived while the wife is entitled to her feeling of also being deprived.  And if both of them could OWN these feelings instead of justifying them with their own and each others' offenses then they could get together and work out their deprivation.  Instead, they get ratched up into OVERentitlement.

Here is a reason a person did not feel entitled to her feelings.
She has had it ingrained in her that she does not matter. All she can do then is to appeal to the otherwise obvious fact that her father did indeed do what he did.

I love this.  It really helps me understand that I have to get to my true feelings.
The woman’s problem seems straightforward. She can't both feel sorry for her father and hate him. This is the well-known inability to have two opposite feelings at the same time. It is conventionally explained as a defect in psychic structure (splitting), but I suggest that this begs the question. When we are unable to have two opposite feelings at the same time it is because we do not feel entitled to either feeling.


This is the most helpful to me.
                                 THE NEED TO NOT UNDERSTAND
However it has come about, it now seems to be true that at times we avoid
understanding others for fear that we will over-identify with them, risking the sacrifice of our own interest, or in the special case of therapists, we risk a critical loss, that of an independent point of view. Since understanding can compel forgiveness, or in its more familiar form, acceptance, a therapist may shy away from it as undermining, even though simultaneously being very concerned to understand the patient.


For YEARS I could not understand why people kept rejecting me – some who just met me but also many who had long been my friend.  I both could not own my own feelings and was deparate to be understood by people who couldn’t and wouldn’t understand, people who had THE NEED TO NOT UNDERSTAND.

Who here doesn’t identify with this?
One effect of defensive entitlement is for us to entirely lose track of the underlying deprivation. Take the instance of recourse to defensive entitlements based on the now almost-obsolete division of marital duties: the husband who berates his wife for not having dinner ready when he gets home, or the wife who berates her husband for getting home late without calling her and so dinner is burnt or cold. We simply condemn the complainer, which usually makes it impossible to see that their complaints are a symptom of low or depressive expectations—that is of not feeling entitled to their feelings, the consquence being that they have reduced the expression of their wishes—and probably their awareness of them as well—to these tokens.


{I really like this article but can't get my thoughts organized here.}
« Last Edit: April 17, 2008, 03:35:01 PM by Gaining Strength »

Gaining Strength

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Re: Lack of Entitlement to Our Feelilngs
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2008, 03:40:28 PM »
So here, it looks like I could have two feelings at once, as long as I felt entitled to them.

Yeah - It is definitely possible to love and be angry at a person.  I totally get that it is dysfunction that does not permit such seeminly conflicting feelings.  That is when a person who feels anger towards another then moves into a state of hate.  THAT is the launch pad of abuse.  This makes complete sense to me.

Ami

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Re: Lack of Entitlement to Our Feelilngs
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2008, 04:24:04 PM »
Thank you GS and Amber
   I am getting it ,slowly.
  Amber ,what you said about it being OK to have the whole range of feelings w/out it meaning you are  'bad" is my exact dilemma. My actions are mostly good. I feel I am "bad' with my thoughts and feelings.
 Today, I noticed a depression come over me when I did not meet s/one's need.I have  strict "control' over my feelings b/c I guess I had to when i was younger and never got out of the pattern.
  Thanks for your posts, GS and Amber.          Love    Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

LilyCat

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Re: Lack of Entitlement to Our Feelilngs
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2008, 04:48:26 PM »
Hi everyone,

I'm so glad you are all digging into this article -- wow! It's really great to read everyone's thoughts and reactions.

My thinking cap is not entirely on right now, but there's one theme that I can help you with, at least: feelings are just feelings. PhoenixRising is right -- they're neither good nor bad, they just are what they are. And we are our feelings (i.e., when someone dies, later on, however later on, what do you miss about them? If you think about it, much of it is their feelings -- that's what makes us who we are).

If there are no good or bad feelings, then no one is good or bad because of their feelings.

We just use them as one (important) factor in making decisions about what to do and how to behave, etc. You might even love someone, but it still could be wiser and healthier to stay away from them (ahem, hard lesson learned recently!!)

I think all of that is what he means by entitlement to feelings. Or here's my point of view: you're going to have your feelings, whatever they are. There is nothing, absolutely nothing you can do to change them. They can change, but you can't force them to change. (I think. Some people might say you can decide to feel a different way; I'm not sure I agree.) 

So, you might as well get in touch with them and give yourself full permission to feel them, and own them, and then use them in whatever decision-making capacity you need or wish to.

Feelings are their own reality. (That's probably the most important thing I could help you understand.)  They're going to be there whether you acknowledge them or get in touch with them ... and it's safer and healthier to know what they are and allow yourself to have them.

...there are always very real reasons for the feelings you have, whether it's anger or disappointment or (...in my group we always joke that we never seem to get past the "a" word -- anger) whatever. ALWAYS. Your feelings are your truth. They are what's true for you.

Hope that wasn't too fuzzy. My brain is a little fuzzy right now. I know it's a dense article, but I'm so glad you're finding it helpful. I know I did. And it does get a little confusing sometimes.

I am so impressed by all of you!!! Yea!!!!! You are one smart and savvy group of people. So glad I found you!

LilyCat

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Re: Lack of Entitlement to Our Feelilngs
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2008, 04:56:56 PM »
You know what? I just had another thought --

There are no good or bad feelings, and so feelings do not make us good or bad. It's our actions that make us good or bad. (That was my aha, although it seems so obvious.)

...I think when we act poorly, it's because we don't understand or know our feelings, and/or ocassionally because we condemn ourselves for having them (which we shouldn't do).


...also, I forgot that I wanted to say that of course it's very possible to have two feelings at the same time. You can feel angry and sad, for instance. Most of us have mixed feelings about our parents, I think. That makes sense, because people are very complex so there are bound to be things you like, and things that you don't; and needs that they met, and needs that they didn't.

Which leads me to ... Ami, I found it great when I no longer needed my parents' approval. It took me a long time and a lot of work, but it was very helpful. It's nice to have it (well, mine are both dead now, but when they were alive), but it's great not to need it. I actually went on the board this time to read your story, and I got all caught up in this post. So maybe now I'll go read it ....

LC

Ami

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Re: Lack of Entitlement to Our Feelilngs
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2008, 09:16:31 AM »
Dear LilyCat,
 I am so happy you are on the board. I have had certain people come on the board who are like 'angels" to me . They come at a crucial time and lead the way. LilyCat, you understand HOW to walk with God and then, walk OUT of old patterns.
I am so happy to learn from your experience.
   I know where I want to get--centered in myself. I have been there,before.
  I am thrilled with the article you posted, even though it is "slow digesting". It is very nutritious(lol)
  I see that we MUST own our feelings as a first step to being centered.
  Please keep posting,LilyCat.           Love   Ami

((((((((((LilyCat))))))))
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Hopalong

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Re: Lack of Entitlement to Our Feelilngs
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2008, 03:28:21 PM »
Quote
as soon as I thought about her vulnerability, it was almost as if an audible click happened. It was like suddenly the whole situation came into focus and I could sit there and listen to her and kind of see this vulnerable girl just not in touch with her vulnerability at all, and just going on and on, from this way and that. But I could have compassion for her, and I began to enjoy the interaction. Really listen and nod and be able to really take in what she was saying. It was just really almost fun because I knew she had no insight into why—and this is a repeated thing where she just has to have the last word. And I could tell she felt identified with.

I really related to this. It is the core for how I learned to relate to my mother in the last few years. When I simply gave up defending myself, and took my focus off myself, and even off her content, and just focused on listening beyond her N-gabbling surface, and heard a confused prattling little girl trying to fill the air with words so she wouldn't have to let the reality of their poverty and her father's horrendous betrayal of all he stood for, then I could stay calm and kind.

My defensiveness was always hairtrigger, with  my mother. And I find with my daughter, when she begins to criticize and analyse...it pushes the same button. I have learned to "unlisten". Sometimes I just tune into the voice, not what it's saying. Sounds awful but it's a way of defusing my own tension.

good thread!
Hops

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towrite

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Re: Lack of Entitlement to Our Feelilngs
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2008, 12:52:36 PM »
The lunch with "Mona" -- sounds like the woman/friend I'm [still] living with. If I express ANY emotion provoked by something she's done (told me to go to a shelter), several things happen: her voice immediately goes up an octave and 20-30 decibels; her posture stiffens; she begins to stare at me as she retaliates (Can't think of a better word) but ONLY in terms of what I've said. She offers nothing unique or peculiar from her own self, she simply and loudly repudiates everything I've said or repeats it, substituting her "I" for my "I" - e.g. "You scare me, too!!"  or  "This is a hard time for me, too."  I call it the "Me, too" syndrome, trying to constantly top me b/c she feels so inadequate. My feelings are inconsequential compared to hers, yet she never brings them up unless I state mine first.

towrite
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Time wounds all heels.