Author Topic: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent  (Read 17231 times)

Jenocidal

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Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
« on: August 21, 2004, 03:16:51 PM »
Outing the Narcissist

I came across the definition of NPD four weeks ago, and I've spent the last four weeks reading about it.  All my life, I felt my mother had antisocial personality disorder, like her father did.  Her punishments were brutal.  Then I found the definiton of NPD, and it explained my mother perfectly - except that my mother did rage on me as a child, physically abusing me... sociopathy was not a 100% match.  But the NPD was.

Now that I am starting this "healing process", I was wondering how many of you recommend telling your narcissistic mother what you've learned about them?

A final "this is what you did to me -- this is why we don't have a relationship?"  Would that be considered part of the "healing process"?

Her and I are not on speaking terms after a fullon narcissistic rage session I had to endure on my little brother's graduation day (4 weeks ago her little man graduated - she wasn't about to share that day with me).

My narcissistic mother doesn't get along with anyone on all sides of our family.  Nobody can handle her idiopathy.

Am I selfish for wanting to show her what she is?  I have a strong desire to out her.  Bare in mind this woman is still damaging my little brother whom she sleeps with.

Discounted Girl

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Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2004, 10:18:01 AM »
Trying to explain to her what her "problems" are and what they have done to you might help you in the satisfaction department, but it would do nothing to change her, in fact it would give her further ammo to discuss what a horrible person you are and might give her more ideas to rev up the smear campaign. At this point, you probably have nothing to lose though.

Jenocidal

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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2004, 02:31:05 PM »
Thanks for your reply.  I'm going to take a few days and compile my final word.

The info I've read on this board has been a tremendous enlightenment.

PnkDragn

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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2004, 11:55:59 AM »
I just found out there was a name for my Nfather.  Its good to know that I am not the one who is crazy.  After reading what NPD is I find myself wanting to help or fix my Nparent.  What stops me is what I know would happen if I brought this to his attention.  The "punishment" would be the worst I have ever received.  See in their eyes they are perfect, so if someone as insignificant as us try to tell them they are a "bad" person that would only confirm to them how insignificant we are and how little we know and back up their idea of them being perfect because they know more then we do.

If you are going to confront your Nmother go into it being prepared for the worst "punishment" you have ever received.  That way it wont be such a shock to you when it happens and you'll be able to deal with it better.  I believe confronting your past is the greatest way to start the healing process, but with this condition it is a loose-loose situation.

When i read your post a situation that happened a few years ago came to mind.  After several years of being married to my brother and saw the affect of how Nfather treated him she decided to confront him.  Well, mom had tried to tell her not to do it but she didnt listen.  If I had know what she was planning I would have tried to prepare her for what was going to happen.  They were in a restraunt when it happened and Nfather was yelling at the top of his lungs in the restraunt.  She had told him she didnt think if he would care if his son were to die tomorrow.  He said "it would be just another day".  Needless to say my sis-in-law was beside herself.  I dont think she ever had a clue that people could be this way.  After she left the restraunt she was so overwhelmed that she had to pull over and cried her eyes out for an hour.  

If you feel so strongly about confronting your Nmother be prepaired for what WILL happen and that is may be 10 times worse then you ever had before.  Prepare your brother for the brunt he may get as the only scapegoat around.

Please think carefully about this.  Know that it will not affect the Nmother in the way that you hope.  I know it is a frustrating situation, but until the day your Nmom acnowledges that she has a problem (which probably never happens) there is nothing you can do to change the problem.

Treading lightly,
PnkDragn

Anonymous

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Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2004, 05:40:34 PM »
Hi, I am Jenocidals aunt. I know her like she was my own daughter, and what she says about her NParent is very true. Jenocidal has suffered things growing up with her NMother that you wouldn't believe if I told you. She always had a special spirit and I would see her mother darken her world every day with violence and bitterness. Everything that her NMother suffered during her life since childhood, she took it all out on her precious daughter. I know, because I was there and I was also dominated by my sister since we were little girls. Then I felt helpless to do anything about it when I would see her strike her daughter (Jenocidal) across the face.

One day, we were sitting around the kitchen table and her mother was worked up about something. We were talking, when suddenly Jenocidal came up to her and asked her to look at this song she had just written. Instead of being suprised and delighted and taking the song and reading it on the paper, she procceeded to scream at her and punched her right in the jaw for daring to interupt.

I saw that and I was devastated and did not know what to do. This was my sister against her own child, who was barely even into her teens yet. She started to sob and I felt helpless to do anything. I stood up -- I said how what she had just done was wrong, and I kicked her out of my place and then after she left I called the child protection services. Of course, they "investigated" and nothing was ever done. She had talked her way out of it, again. And my niece had just undergone only one incident out of many in her lifetime, growing up.

It wasn't the physical violence so much, we all had had a taste of that -- it was the emotional trauma and terrorization. She lost her little spirit, and I would try to tell her that it wasn't her fault, when she would be sobbing. Her mother was supposed to be her world. When that world becomes so hurtful, she had no where to turn for answers.

I see her now as reaching out, and she has finally gotten some critical answers to what was happening to her. For this, and you people who have gone and/or are going through the same or similar situations, I am eternally grateful. She needs all the support she can get, even though she is an adult now. That child is still screaming "why" inside, and she is finally starting to find some answers that make sense.

Thank you for this board. Without the answers, she would be eternally asking the same questions over and over again. It helps to be able to relate to others when you have been convinced that you are alone in this world and no one understands. They do understand, even though their situations were different.

Jenocidal, as for confronting your mother, you know as well as I do that it will never, ever sink ion and she will never, ever realise what a beautiful, precious daughter she has always had in you. This is the biggest tragedy of all. Her own mother never knew how special and precious she is.

Dawning

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Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2004, 06:05:19 PM »
How about if you quote a section of a book about narcissism (ie, in writing?) in a letter to N-whoever  :?:   I've thought about doing this with my dad pertaining to the section on *what you have to gain/lose by confronting a parent with NPD* in a book called Longing for Dad: Father Loss and Its Impact (page 210-212.)
"No one's life is worth more than any other...no sister is less than any brother...."

ch

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Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2004, 07:46:21 PM »
Dear Jenocidal,

in short, DON'T DO IT!!  
resist the temptation to do that.  don't let them know what you know. don't feed them more drugs!!!  your concern, benevolence in the form of positive energy is their source of N!!!  don't fall back into the vicious cycle.  don't be a N-supplier!!!
its better to use your energy toward taking care of yourself.
ch

Dawning

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Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2004, 02:19:07 AM »
In Beth Erickson's book - that I mentioned above - she suggests approaching fathers as a necessary stage of recovery.  However, what she has to say about approaching N fathers is interesting, I think.  Perhaps, it could apply to the topic of this thread.  Here is what she writes:

Narcissitically self-absorbed fathers: These fathers are dangerous because they are involved with no one but themselves.  They will hold court only with those who will adore them.  These fathers must come across as perfect at all costs, even and especially when they are not.  So a discussion of mistakes they made or of what was missing is extremely precarious because of the threat that they might have to see their own imperfections.  These fathers deftly dodge taking responsibility for their actions or inaction unless a therapist helps hold their feet to the fire.  Otherwise, blame for their children's pain will probably get shifted back to the child.  Blaming and faultfinding characterize many interactions because such fathers are unable to take what they perceive as criticism.  Dumping on others allows them to continue their delusions of adequacy.  These parents have the narcissistic tendency to see their children as objects who are reflections of themselves.  If parents are not too rigidly defended by their self-absorption, they can be helped to respond to what their children need with coaching, usually from a therapist.  But other parents, true narcissists according to psychologist Elana Golomb, are more impervious to their children's needs - or anyone else's, for that matter.  In her powerful book, Trapped in the Mirror:Adult Children of Narcissists in Their Struggle for Self, she wrote, "The child of a (true) narcissist is not supposed to see her own power....Credit to the self interferes with obedience to the law: Be nothing."

Children of narcissistic parents must develop numerous defenses in an effort to survive psychologically.  You must become "psychologically hard of hearing," deafening yourself as a defense against your parent's attributing to you what is unacceptable in the parent.  Narcissists must always be right.  If you grew up with a steady diet of being wrong and bad, before long, you began to believe this very powerful person's messages.  Despite attempts to deflect your parent's  annihilating messages, some still penetrated, and you ended up internalizing some of these crushing, denigrating statements.  These zingers then became part of your own inner dialogue.  It is easy to see the extreme delicacy of approaching these types of fathers with the wish for greater honestly and emotional connection in the relationship.  This does not mean, however, that facing him is not a good idea.  It is.  At the very least, when you finally speak your truth, you can begin to extricate yourself from your narcissistic father's clutches.  If you believe your father falls into this category, I urge you to seek therapeutic help both to determine whether or not this is the case, and to craft a plan for how to proceed.  Even if a conversation is only reiteration of your father's rationalized self-interest, at least you will have tried everything.  There is no more to do but to disconnect and grieve the fathering you never had and never will have.
"No one's life is worth more than any other...no sister is less than any brother...."

ch

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Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2004, 10:07:54 AM »
Dawning,
Thanks for that Excellent posting.
I guess all children of Nparents need to go back for one more last try, just to be sure that they are N people and, therefore, are really hopeless.  Thank goodness, i am finished with my confrontation and can rid the guilt once and for all.  WHen i grieved and mourned my loss of a childhood that could never be, i often found myself wishing the revelation had come much sooner.  I wish i had left after college and never looked back.  Instead, i refused to trust my instincts and kept coming back to try and try again as an adult.  

I am glad i am done with this phase.

seeker

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Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2004, 11:33:10 AM »
Hi Jenocidal & Auntie & all,

My heart goes out to you.  First to J's aunt: I know that helplessness.  My crazy SIL adopted two children as if to say "see if you can stop me".  We knew how unhealthy she was.  The only consequence available was to disconnect from her.  I had witnessed nothing as you had, but had grave suspicions, esp. after seeing two black eyes on one little boy.  Although you feel that calling CPS did nothing, at least it was a hint to J that her mother's behavior is NOT normal according to the outside world.  Of course, it must have been awful to realize how good a liar a mom can be.

J, I would not inform your mom what N is.  Threat of exposure will only cause her to drop the atom bomb on you.  Have a disinterested third party do any dirty work.  Ask CPS what they would evidence they would need to correct the situation with your brother.  

I really really agree with ch when she talks about supply.  Even negative energy is supply.  In a word, any kind of drama is supply.  I once read that the way to get rid of an abusive N boyfriend is to become very very boring.  If you distance yourself from your terrorist, you have won.

Good luck, Seeker

Plucky G2

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Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2005, 11:34:23 PM »
Quote
Bear in mind this woman is still damaging my little brother whom she sleeps with.


Do you mean incest? Is that what you mean?  If so, I would not hesitate to do whatever it took to get your brother out of there.  Ignore anything he says or does, he is a twisted child who is going to need lots of help.

If I misunderstood, please forgive.

missm

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Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2005, 03:24:37 PM »
My mother is also narcissistic.  I confronted her about the effects of her behavior when I was in my early twenties, after my first year of therapy, and my first abusive relationship.  I am now 33, and have come to realize that in engaging her in a conversation about her behavior, I really gave her an opportunity to re-negotiate the "contract" of subservience and servitude I entered into as an infant.  Her supposed understanding and concessions to my anger allowed me to continue to idealize her and remain in her shadow through my continuing fear of her disapproval or rejection. 

Alice Miller talks about confronting the "inner" parent.  I think this is far more important than how we interact with the parent as they exist today.  In my case, I feel that my mother does not have the frame of reference, or the self-awareness to process anything I might try to discuss with her negative impact on my development.  I do, however, think it's extremely important to determine how our continuing relationship affects my current mental state, and draw whatever boundaries are necessary to maintain my own self-esteem and mental health.

enough

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Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2007, 03:43:47 PM »
hi all,
i'm new to these boards and am finding them very (tearfully!) helpful.
this is an old topic, but i must reply to it!  i wrote my parents and brother letters this past week, outing their N ways; something i wish i had done so many years ago (i'm 37 now).
thing is, i'm sitting here waiting for the bomb to drop. the bomb that will top all the others that have been dropped throughout my life.  i feel it had to be done and yet, here i am again, afraid.  i live a good distance from the 3 of them, but would not be the least bit suprised to find at least 1 of them at my door this weekend.

ugh.

thanks for listening,
enough

JanetLG

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Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2007, 03:57:07 PM »
Enough,

Welcome to the board. You will be heard here, and you can explain what's happened to bring you to this point. We will listen to you, and believe you, too.

As you've said, this particular thread topic is an old one, and I think the people concerned aren't on the forum now, but there are many people (me included) who have confronted family members, with many different outcomes.

You might find it more helpful to post your own story on the main forum section, in your own thread.

As to what response you'll get after telling family of origin members that you believe them to be N's - in my experience, they will not believe you, but it may fuel retaliation (they will want you to stay as you were, and do what they want, and keep quiet), so yes, you may well need to be wary.

But you can post here, and get very good advice from all sorts of people on what to do now.

I'm sorry if all this is upsetting, but I'm afraid that happens first, before you get used to being strong, and moving on with your life.

I'm sure you can do it.

Just by finding this board, and posting, you've taken the first steps.


Janet

enough

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Re: Outing the Narcissistic/Emotionally incesting Parent
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2007, 07:26:26 PM »
janet,
thanks for your support. 
my experience is, as i'm sure is the case with all the experiences here, soooo  complex. i will certainly post them in a bit; things are really raw right now.
what i'm afraid of, mostly, is my father's anger and tendency to be phyiscal.
this whole process is so draining, and yet liberating....