Author Topic: The cumulative effect of N abuse  (Read 6805 times)

JustKathy

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The cumulative effect of N abuse
« on: February 23, 2010, 06:25:21 PM »
I recently read a comment on a site about N mothers that talked about N abuse being cumulative. It basically stated that Ns often dish out their abuse as minor events that seem like "parent/child issues," especially to the outside world . . . the type of things, that on their own, no one would consider abusive. We often don't realize until our teens that we are being abused, because it takes years for these small events to build to a head.

I was recently watching "Celebrity Rehab," and during one of the counseling sessions, one of the guys (a reality star, can't recall his name), said that he had unresolved anger towards his abusive mother, and cited a painful experience with his eye glasses. When he was a child, his mother refused to pay the extra money for wire rims, and forced him to wear the cheap plastic frames, which caused him to be bullied in school. When I heard that, I sat with my mouth open. My mother did that to me, and I had forgotten it. When I was 12, and needed glasses. M refused to let me have the wire rims, and forced me to wear the cheap plastic cat-eye glasses. I too, was picked on in school. I stopped wearing the glasses, and spent years walking around squinting. This may be why I had forgotten this episode. I resolved it in my own way.

The reason I bring this up, is that once I was reminded of this, I started to remember other small events in my childhood, that at the time confused me, but didn't feel like abuse. And none of these things would seem like abuse to other people. If you told someone about the eyeglass thing, the average person would simply assume that the parent didn't have the money, when in fact it was a deliberate attempt to humiliate the child.

I wonder if this is a conscious effort on the part of the N parent, to make the abuse appear benign, and spread it out over several years. It makes them look like normal, even good parents, while our souls are slowly being destoyed.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 07:01:12 PM by JustKathy »

river

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Re: The cumulative effect of N abuse
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2010, 06:59:31 PM »
 
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    The reason I bring this up, is that once I was reminded of this, I started to remember other small events in my childhood, that at the time confused me, but didn't feel like abuse. And none of these things would seem like abuse to other people. If you told someone about the eyeglass thing, the average person would simply assume that the parent didn't have the money, when in fact it was a deliberate attempt to humiliate the child.
           
.. isnt this the key to it, its the intention behind the action.  No-one else would see it, but you feel it because you're on the recieving end of it, and its all in the context as well as the contrasts....  the so subtle build up.   And how it can be at once subtle yet blatent, but unquestioned.
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        I wonder if this is a conscious effort on the part of the N parent, to make the abuse appear benign, and spread it our for several years. It makes them look like normal, even good parents, while our souls are slowly being destoyed.   
...... and this is what I've noticed, its the hidden underlying agenda, its not an exaggeration.  Yet, do you find it still hard to believe in some ways?   I do.  Whether its conscious on thier part, I've often wondered this, about Ns as well as many other dysfunctional types.   Or is it a type of 'optical neglect'?  .... like thier focus is elswhere, and that is still a choice on their part.

JustKathy

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Re: The cumulative effect of N abuse
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2010, 07:07:25 PM »
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Whether its conscious on thier part, I've often wondered this, about Ns as well as many other dysfunctional types.   Or is it a type of 'optical neglect'?  .... like thier focus is elswhere, and that is still a choice on their part.

That's a really good observation. My NM may not have been thinking about playground bullying when she made me wear those glasses. Perhaps it was simply a matter of me not being good enough for the more expensive frames. That's another way of sending a hurtful message to the child. There are hundreds of nice frames here, but you aren't worth the money, so you get the cheap ones. The bullying at school may have just been icing on the cake.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 07:10:58 PM by JustKathy »

nolongeraslave

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Re: The cumulative effect of N abuse
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2010, 08:37:41 PM »
I do think it's a conscious attempt to disguise their abusive behaviors, but who knows what's going on in their cruel heads?


As a kid, I did TRY to express what my mom was doing to me. But, it seemed benign to the outsider. A 12 year old's "my mom gets mad at me" or "My mom doesn't let me do what I want" truly meant "My mom is abusing and torturing me."  To the adults, they thought I was just complaining about regular discipline or my mom's concerns.  How was I supposed to know what narcissism was or how to explain it?

As I got older, I pushed the memories aside and started to idolize my NM.  After all, everyone else thought she was great and nobody was validating my painful experience. I developed Stockholm Syndrome traits towards my NM, until my therapist pointed out she was a narcissist.

HeartofPilgrimage

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Re: The cumulative effect of N abuse
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2010, 09:37:28 PM »
I think narcissism is a problem that can't possibly be identified by isolated behaviors. Its the whole pattern that adds up to N. It's the excessiveness. It's the persistence.

If a parent has a problem taking the child's perspective about cat-eye glasses, and it is a lapse in an otherwise good relationship, not a whole lot of harm done. If this is one piece in a larger puzzle of the parent being unempathetic, blaming the child for having normal feelings (like wanting to be accepted by peers), making the parent the center of the universe ... well, then the cat-eye glasses are an indicator of an important and painful relationship failure.

That's the awful thing about emotional abuse --- it's NOT about lapses in judgment, momentarily snapping at a child, or other every-once-in-a-while mistakes. Everybody does those things with their kids (at least, everybody I know does). It's the PATTERN. It's the lack of understanding over a long period of time ... the guilt for having feelings, having your own perspective, having your own opinion, having needs. No wonder it's so hard for CPS to detect it, no wonder its so hard for even those closest to the family to see it or report it. It's about the pattern.

gratitude28

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Re: The cumulative effect of N abuse
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2010, 09:53:05 PM »
Kathy,
I think this is why we spend so much of our lives thinking WE have the problem. I believed what NM believed about me. So I felt awkward. She projected her feelings onto me and I felt the way she made me feel. It took so many bad things to get me to where I realized I was not the one who fit her mold.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Logy

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Re: The cumulative effect of N abuse
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 10:40:03 PM »
JustKathy,

This is a very good observation.  I never thought of it that way.  But it is so true.  One incident is one incident.  No big deal, a misunderstanding on the road of life.  We can count numerous incidents with people in our lives. 

Nolongeraslave,
You're right.  When you are a child, with no knowledge of a personality disorder, under the influence of an adult (or two if you count your dad who never disagreed with NM), you have no power.  This was your normal.  You grew up knowing that you are worthless, your opinions didn't matter, your interpretation of the situation was incorrect.  You believe you are the crazy one.

What sticks with me, even 40 years later, are the looks I received from other adults in my life.  I remember when they looked at me after NM had made a comment to or about me in their presence, when they asked me a question and NM took over and put the words in my mouth, when NM disciplined me when they were there.  These adults looked at me with just pity.  I took that look as the other adult thought I was pitiful, which made me feel even worse about myself.  With my adult knowledge I now know that they had pity for what I was going through.


Recently a neighbor of my family when I was young sent my NM a picture that she had saved of me when I was about 8 years old.  I am grateful to this lady that she even thought enough about me to save that picture.

Logy

swimmer

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Re: The cumulative effect of N abuse
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2010, 08:12:29 PM »
JustKathy-

Yes I can see it.  The complete emotional ignorance of an NM.  If you were getting teased in school, this seems like an issue a parent could use to teach a kid empowerment.  The money is not really the issue at hand... If you're parents didn't have the money, it could have been a moment to learn about saving money, or getting an early bday present if money was that tight etc... Bullying at school is so serious, and can affect learning.  This is up the ally with emotional neglect in my mind.  How hard that must have been to be bullied, then go home to a parent who ignored it.  It's almost like a snowball effect, learning that it is okay to let people push around without even trying to take action.

I know what you mean about having memories pop up later in life and figure out something wasn't right.  The cumulative effect mentioned here is ONLY experienced by the target, so we just have to trust our feelings.... It won't be seen by a team of people who will say anything that can make a difference.  Memories like these have been popping up for me daily for months now.

Thx for sharing. I still don't trust my memory, as I was taught not to trust that.  I've learned that I have a really good memory, and I don't pretend to remember when I don't.  Sometimes I just think, am I just crazy??  Sometimes I can't even confidently say one word, without questioning myself.  It's getting better though as I get older, and the further away I get from my NM

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HeartofPilgrimage

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Re: The cumulative effect of N abuse
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2010, 08:22:06 PM »
The postings on this thread remind me of when I first went back to school and started learning the techniques of cognitive therapy. My professor had everybody in the class start keeping "thought records" --- when you had a particular, strong emotion, you started writing down the thoughts you were having at the time, and you kept digging deeper asking "and, why do I think that?" until you hit bedrock, an "absolute" statement that absolutely hit home and that you absolutely believed was true. Well, in doing the thought record one day when I was feeling really down, I came to the "bedrock" thought "I AM NOT CAPABLE OF RUNNING MY OWN LIFE." And I knew in my heart that this thought was driving so many bad emotions that were in turn running my life. And I also knew just reading it out loud that in terms of truth and honesty, it was BS, it was ridiculous. I had not (at that time) had a real career, but I had had the almost total responsibility of a big household and four children, not to mention myself and my husband that I cared for, for way over a decade. For me to think that I was not capable of running my own life was ... stupid. Stuff started to turn around for me when I saw that statement written down on my thought record.

THe weird thing was I was not the only woman in that class to have that underlying belief. There was another midlife woman in the class, who had been a successful attorney and had gotten tired of practicing law and was going back to school for yet another degree, that had uncovered that same thought inside herself.

Meh

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Re: The cumulative effect of N abuse
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2010, 09:52:12 PM »
I have seen my aunt and uncle react when their daughter is being bullied; they discuss it between themselves (Mother & Father). They discus it with their daughter. They acknowledge that it is happening. They even discuss it with the rest of the family and pretty much everyone else in the neighborhood. They shelter their child from the situation to the degree that the child wants to be protected from the situation.

They make a point of knowing what is happening in the child's world. The childs world is part of their world.

They also encourage the daughter to participate in numerous skill-building classes, sports music etc. so she has the opportunity to make other friends elsewhere and is not dependant on the bully circle as the only peer group.

The thing is any kid can be bullied just for being younger or any random reason but that is not how kids experience it, kids experience it as fear and ostracism, distraction from productive learning experiences and as an internalized message.

I know my niece, she is just a normal little girl, yet she was bullied. Her parents acknowledge that she is not talented in everything but they have made darn sure that she has experienced so many things that she has found many things that she is good at and can excel in.

Kids with supportive parents can survive bulling without internalizing the experience but kids without supportive parents internalize the message even further that the kid is “unlovable, unacceptable, weak etc.”
For kids with nar-parents, bullies just reinforce the self-loathing/self-neglect that was taught by the parents.


Overcomer

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Re: The cumulative effect of N abuse
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2010, 03:00:50 AM »
My mom would never stick up for me. 

Abuse?  I remember once the family was on vacation.  Four of us in a sedan in the late 60s.  I was a talkative kid maybe nine years old.  I guess I was bugging my mom, tapping her on the shoulder.  She said, "If you do this one more time to me......"  She grabbed my finger, tapped it on her shoulder and then hauled off and slapped me!    My brother and dad were appaled!!  That always seemed so extreme to me!
Kelly

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JustKathy

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Re: The cumulative effect of N abuse
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2010, 01:38:12 PM »
Quote
Kids with supportive parents can survive bulling without internalizing the experience but kids without supportive parents internalize the message even further that the kid is “unlovable, unacceptable, weak etc.”
For kids with nar-parents, bullies just reinforce the self-loathing/self-neglect that was taught by the parents.

My NM definitely knew that being bullied in school would reinforce what she had taught me - that I was worthless. She would actually set me up to get bullied in school, dressing me in geeky clothing, forcing me to join the chess club, turning me into a nerd that kids would pick on. I fought back, started buying my own clothes, excelled at tennis, and became accepted with the more popular crowd. So she sabotaged me. She would give me permission to go to a school dance, even buy me a dress, but on the night of the dance, when my friends came to pick me up, she would throw a tantrum and claim that I was never given permission to go. She would humiliate me in front of my friends, which would be the talk of the school the next day. She did this over and over. Every time she said I could go on a date, the minute the boy came to pick me up, she threw the tantrum. She went to great lengths to sabotage me. I think one of the reasons that she wanted me to be bullied, was that she was bullied herself. When I started to become popular, she went into a jealous rage. She simply couldn't stand the thought that I had it better than she did.

JustKathy

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Re: The cumulative effect of N abuse
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2010, 01:50:11 PM »
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As a kid, I did TRY to express what my mom was doing to me. But, it seemed benign to the outsider. A 12 year old's "my mom gets mad at me" or "My mom doesn't let me do what I want" truly meant "My mom is abusing and torturing me."  To the adults, they thought I was just complaining about regular discipline or my mom's concerns.

That's it, exactly. If I told a guidance counselor, "my mom makes me wear the geeky glasses," "or my mom punished me for something I didn't do," "or my mom rifled through my dresser," the look I would get was that of so what, you had a normal disagreement with your mom. Your mom went through your dresser? She's just being a good parent and making sure you aren't in trouble with drugs. Seems innocent enough, certainly not abusive. I knew that I was being abused, but to the outside world, it was normal parent-child conflict that all adolescents experience.

If I had walked into my counselor's office with bruises all over my body, they would have seen abuse. But N abuse is almost like working on a wood carving. It takes a long time. You whittle away at it, a piece at a time, until finally, your work is complete. That's what M did to me. It took her 15 years of slowly chipping away before I finally realized, she's not being mean to me, she's ABUSING me.

nolongeraslave

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Re: The cumulative effect of N abuse
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2010, 09:02:28 PM »
Quote
Kids with supportive parents can survive bulling without internalizing the experience but kids without supportive parents internalize the message even further that the kid is “unlovable, unacceptable, weak etc.”
For kids with nar-parents, bullies just reinforce the self-loathing/self-neglect that was taught by the parents.

My NM definitely knew that being bullied in school would reinforce what she had taught me - that I was worthless. She would actually set me up to get bullied in school, dressing me in geeky clothing, forcing me to join the chess club, turning me into a nerd that kids would pick on. I fought back, started buying my own clothes, excelled at tennis, and became accepted with the more popular crowd. So she sabotaged me. She would give me permission to go to a school dance, even buy me a dress, but on the night of the dance, when my friends came to pick me up, she would throw a tantrum and claim that I was never given permission to go. She would humiliate me in front of my friends, which would be the talk of the school the next day. She did this over and over. Every time she said I could go on a date, the minute the boy came to pick me up, she threw the tantrum. She went to great lengths to sabotage me. I think one of the reasons that she wanted me to be bullied, was that she was bullied herself. When I started to become popular, she went into a jealous rage. She simply couldn't stand the thought that I had it better than she did.


That's terrible, JustKathy. I sometimes wonder if N moms secretly wanted their kids to be bullied, no matter what they say on the outside.


My school was known as one of the "best schools", so my mom loved it when people said "Wow, you live in that rich area?"  She told me to just ignore the bullying or she wouldn't believe me. She would say, "You make me depressed when you talk about those kids! Don't talk about that to me." Hello? How about how I felt? Why was it about her?  I went through having stuff thrown at me, being verbally abused, and receiving racist comments. How could you be comfortable knowing that your kid is going through that?
 She didn't care that I was crying frequently, getting panic attacks and was isolated. She even told me,The kids are pointing and laughing at you!" She wanted to me to dress preppy, so she would use the "Nobody likes you be/c you don't dress like how I want you to."
 

 I would  beg her to go to another school, but she said we had to live in a rich community. She would say "But my friends are so impressed with me!"  Narcissists don't want to be "poor" or "middle-class."  When we finally left that area, my mom would pretend that she left b/c of me. Bullshit! She left, because she lost her popularity amongst her social circle.  If she really cared about me, she would have took me out of that school ages ago. I had to go to that school for 4-5 years.   Again why would you want your kid to go through that for years?

Logy

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Re: The cumulative effect of N abuse
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2010, 11:29:24 PM »
A recent scandal was exposed in a very affluent community of my state.  Involving high school senior basketball players who, according to the school, participated in "bullying".  The press requested more information, stating the "Freedom of Information Act".  We are finding out that this school suppressed information that actually involved criminally deviant behavior.

There is so much more related to this story.  But what I see related to many of the posts here is the narcissism within a community, the toleration of abuse, the entitlement given to those that bring prestige to a group, the willingness to ignore the abused in favor of the abusers who project the image the community values.

Bullying can be an entire thread unto itself.   But what I get from this thread is that bullying is just one aspect of this cumulative effect.  And it can come from an individual.  Or a community.

Logy