Author Topic: Mothering Again, con't.  (Read 21813 times)

lighter

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Re: Mothering Again, con't.
« Reply #90 on: January 10, 2024, 09:11:36 AM »
You might have a rethink about what "active parenting" means, Hops.

Going to dinner and shopping is an easy thing. 

The heavy lifting of discerning what will help a/your struggling child  vs enabling her to carry on with destructive patterns is, IME, a very high level of active parenting.

DD's narrative of being abandoned by you is wrong.  I hope you haven't bought into it, even a tiny unconscious bit, bc it's not true. 

You're patiently standing by, shining a light in healthier spaces, offering  DD the choice to make changes too....
to walk towards and into that light, maybe.....
or continue experiencing negative consequences so her discomfort moves her into new directions eventually.

  Discomfort is catalyst for big change....it's not punishment or abandonment.  This is truth.  For you.   Me. Everyone on this board and for our children and all humans. 

Holding boundaries with children IS active parenting.  Holding out the chance for healing and change is active parenting.  Extending empathy and compassion, while resisting the urge to rescue and save children from themselves is very active parenting, IME, bc DD will learn she's in charge of saving herself. 

That's.

Huge.

Active parenting.
::nodding::.

Highest levels.

Lighter






sKePTiKal

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Re: Mothering Again, con't.
« Reply #91 on: January 11, 2024, 08:12:53 AM »
I agree with everything Lighter wrote!
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Mothering Again, con't.
« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2024, 08:58:06 AM »
This likely sounds terrible, but I'm not sure I believe that "holding out the chance for healing and change" is what I can or even should try to do with her any more. I can only work on myself, rather than view myself as some kind of leader for her.

When I saw the photo it crystallized how very far away she has gone, and I frankly am comfortable only when I stop holding out anything to her. I do respond with simple courtesy on the surface and kind words, but I am also tuned into not expressing too much compassion. Sounds sick, but I can hold it privately only.

She has shown subtle signs of still using my compassion as vulnerability she can go after. I've been comforted by the sole (big) act of help I chose to give, but I'm still done with trying to model or hold out or narrate or inspire change. Really, I can't. I don't want to. It's still extremely sad and I believe it's best for us both that I not daydream about her changing. She is so far away and so severely disabled by all rational measures that it's better not to fantasize.

And unfortunately, I still have to be very very guarded and protect myself (not my natural M.O.; therein lies the danger). She is a beautiful wolf. Highly intelligent, manipulative, charming and even cunning. I don't want to welcome all of that back into my life.

hugs,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Mothering Again, con't.
« Reply #93 on: January 12, 2024, 12:15:01 PM »
Heard, Hops. I deal with a similar situation.

But can you combine "releasing the outcome" with holding a space for the POSSIBILITY of (someday) positive change? Without defining what that would have to look like?

You wouldn't be opening up your vulnerability to being taken advantage of, that way. And functionally, I understand and support your current "strategy" for dealing with this new avenue of communication.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

lighter

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Re: Mothering Again, con't.
« Reply #94 on: January 13, 2024, 12:16:57 PM »


I believe the chance for change is a happy by product of the choices you made, and not something you're holding on to, Hops. 

It comforted me.

Not gonna lie...
I wanted it to comfort you too. 

Lighter






Hopalong

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Re: Mothering Again, con't.
« Reply #95 on: January 13, 2024, 05:15:30 PM »
Thanks, Amber and Lighter. A lot.
You're both wise, rich with nuggets from your own deeply lived pasts, and truly generous to share them. Thank you.

I think what I was reporting on was some fear I was feeling at her re-emergence. I love her still, but it's more the memory of her before bipolar and the other diagnoses took over. And in nearly every single situation with a narcissistic person I've found in my life (and I sniffed them out like a hunting dog) -- I've taken the love and forgive route and kicked self-protection to the curb. I do love my daughter and I do forgive her, but the gradual changes in her character (or reveals of it) caught me those years ago unaware, uncomprehending, flinging myself under the tractor wheels. I just wasn't able to believe that someone I thought loved me, would take pleasure in hurting me. Then I recognized her expression one day, which her father had shown, too. A little smile when I was absolutely devastated on the canvas.

I don't blame her because blame is the deadest of dead ends. But I got around to recognizing that in my situation, without family support or allies, I had to learn I need to be all of it for myself. (I think Tupp may feel a similar resolve.) And if I had a sister, or a trusted cousin, for sure I'd tell them all my truth. Now I'm reaching for some closer relationships (sisterhood style) here IRL that have always been possible, but I couldn't see. Love and support still available, I just had to open up, forcing myself out of isolation, and what was I always preaching? Allowing for the possibility of good things happening?

I am glad you both reminded me....I have to allow that for my D, too. Just a couple semi-hostile or critical emails from her had sent me cringing again. But I won't get stuck there, promise.

Boundaries are everything. I still sense her pure self missing somewhat having a mother. A little tendril from all the trauma she's been through waving in my direction for comfort. And I surely have the tendrils, too.

I've noticed a weird feeling of unexpected ease in my heart. It's as though the stump of an amputation stopped hurting, and I'm moving through my days without much anxiety (moments sometimes) and with a feeling of new peace. I won't fantasize because fantasizing is always my downfall. So, NO plans/expectations/specific hopes/daydreams/wishes/hopes/grand new roles allowed. I really do know this. I'm freer, better, more at peace without them.

Sorry I'm so hypervigilant about that, Lighter. Not you, but "it" (the daydreams) are threatening to me. I lost years hoping and fantasizing and won't get them back. What I CAN to is go forward taking each present day as it comes, and if messages from my D are part of one now and then, finding my center and not letting the pathos and misery of her situation "hook" me into fixit fantasies.

Yes, I need to allow for the possibility of good things happening. I just won't imagine myself as the driver of them. Motherhood is gone for me. Loving this child doesn't have to be gone; being vulnerable to her does.

A brutal truth. But I did learn it.

hugs and more thanks,
Hops

PS -- Irony smacked me upside-a-da-head when I read this right after writing this post to y'all. It's not about a parent-adult child situation, but you'll see the parallels. I'm referring to the first letter, and Hax's reply. (Free link's good for a week, I think.) https://wapo.st/3tQJf2c
« Last Edit: January 13, 2024, 05:35:09 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Mothering Again, con't.
« Reply #96 on: January 16, 2024, 06:58:34 AM »
I think I've been sounding so brittle about all of this is because my heart has sprung a leak and I'm thinking about her a LOT. Partly it feels good -- I kind of relive the small moments when I read a friendly-sounding message, then my mind goes back into happy memories I had locked away.

For many years now I've practiced release so constantly that I don't know how to, or whether to, try to take hold of her hand again.

It's okay and my heart isn't welded shut. Just lots of feelings got churned up and I'm not sure how to handle them. The answer is probably just staying in the present, and when something happens or comes from my D, just breathe.

I don't know, but imagine that once all the dental restoration is complete, she'll fade out of reach again, particularly since no more money's coming. I just have no idea.

Nose off the pebbles time?

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mothering Again, con't.
« Reply #97 on: January 16, 2024, 01:31:42 PM »
I'm sorry I didn't put myself in your shoes any better than I did.  I forgot boundaries  are built so very close to the pebbles.  And the battle trenches....
so easy to fall... under stress, IME.

You seemed so rock solid..... and I believe in your ability to hold.....
hold....
hold long enough, well enough to keep yourself safe.  I hope you believe too.

Everything you posted made complete sense and of course you're feeling the way you do.  How could you not?

Just know.... I'm here, mentally holding boundaries with you.....and reminding you what helps.....
be so so so kind to yourself.....
drop expectations and judgments....
embrace curiosity.....
accept what you can't change and release outcome.

About holding space for possibilities....
I've decided holding space for not knowing everthing feels better in my body than the former.

Keep your head where your feet are, ((Hops.)) 

Lighter



Hopalong

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Re: Mothering Again, con't.
« Reply #98 on: January 19, 2024, 06:37:22 PM »
Nothing to apologize for, Lighter!
I like your compassionate fantasies about "modeling behavior" for her.
I don't think my D, in her forties, is looking to me to model anything.
And she has huge boiling obstacles, many within herself, to figuring herself out.

It wrings my heart. But love is not a cure. Damnit. I wrote her today that Part 2 of my payment will reach the dentist a bit later because of snow here, and because their office hadn't made it clear. (I thought Part 2 would be due when the work was complete, but turns out they want all of it in advance since I'm out of state.)

Okay, but it's going to take a lot of juggling between two banks, in person, on Monday. Hopefully we don't get another snowfall enough to ice the streets.

She responded with an email complaining about how inconvenient this is for her.

Sigh,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mothering Again, con't.
« Reply #99 on: January 20, 2024, 06:18:25 PM »


Modeling schmodeling.

I just see you making tough choices, Hops.

Nose on and off the pebble....
                 choices.
(SO weird there's a C in the word Choice, don't you think?) 

Every day you choose to focus on  joy/self care
 instead of regret and pain.... things you can't control....
is you holding a lantern up down the path for those who CAN see.

Maybe DD can't see
maybe she can.....
maybe she will, at some point, but
just know.....
I see you, Hops.

As my father used to say....
"Im your witness."  Lots of people see you, ((Hops.))

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Mothering Again, con't.
« Reply #100 on: January 21, 2024, 01:59:34 AM »
Thanks, ((((Lighter)))).

I'm managing to stay fairly calm and though I trashed my kitchen again, still oddly feel happy at the core.

Considering everything, my D-triggering has been fairly brief and not too overwhelming.

I think one day at a time is really helping at the moment. Spent a lot of distraction time for a few days and it felt good. Friend visited today and we laughed a lot. Had a major cuddle with Pooch and snow is beautiful. Poetry class was intense (in a good way) and that's exciting too.

I'd like all my days this simple.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mothering Again, con't.
« Reply #101 on: January 22, 2024, 07:26:20 PM »
That was a really nice update, Hops. 

Just what I needed to see from my position on the ground, spitting (fig.) teeth.
I'll post about it on a the Mindfulness thread, but....
it was really nice to see you standing down the path....
holding that lantern.

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Mothering Again, con't.
« Reply #102 on: January 22, 2024, 07:33:42 PM »
Felt good to post some calm and happy moments, for sure.
That's what we've all got, day to day.

I think the distress it's all churned up was/is the Big Sadness of my life, which I thought I'd been able to move past. Of course, I can't move past it fully as long as she and I are both alive and she is suffering. Mother-heart still grieves for her, while trying to balance my own needs. She's in a very tough situation, and nothing can be done about the inner biologic causes that are out of her control. I tend to feel responsible for all the outer causes (not having the money she needs or secure housing)...and if I were wealthy, I'd take care of it.

There's something awful about not being able to help your child materially as much as they need.

I hope her life calms soon. It's no wonder to me that her adrenals got destroyed, given the constant stress of trying to survive with a betraying brain. She's lived with dire swings for a long time. Bipolar can be a manageable or a horrible condition.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."