Shame

[Meh]

Shame has some association with child neglect. Basically many people here have expressed that they experienced some form of child neglect as a result of the parental "personality disorder", or meanness, or hatred, or abuse, or humiliation (shame creating), or brain-washing, or lying, devaluation of the child by the parents, causing the child to feel insignificant.

Yeah I'm an adult, not a kid any longer, there is however a permanent socialization process of being shamed and knowing shame, feeling shameful.

I just "googled" it, so some results:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/v45266w752678249/
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w6r28172x881k275/
http://www.psychsight.com/ar-shame.html
http://www.zentactics.com/shame.html
http://primal-page.com/childabu.htm
http://cmx.sagepub.com/content/10/4/364.short
http://cmx.sagepub.com/content/10/4/350.short
http://cmx.sagepub.com/content/10/4/377.short
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cpp.331/abstract
http://www.childwelfare.gov/can/impact/longterm/
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8624.1996.tb01832.x/abstract



Child Neglect/ Sexual abuse/Shame/Narcissism---sort of all goes together

[JustKathy]

There are some interesting articles here. Thanks for sharing.

[Meh]

Yr Welcome, Well, I just randomly selected a few, probably at some level I need to go inward and try to understand it a little bit more.

I'm not sure what the process is for that. I mean the inner-child stuff has an internal-work type process. Shame must also have it's system of getting to know it better.

So I guess I sort of put it here to remind myself to work on it. Also figured it was relevant for other people.

[Meh]

http://drjanebolton.wordpress.com/2009/02/06/shame-activators/
http://www.forhealing.org/shame.html-------Excessive shame believes that he/she is defective or should not exist
http://www.healthyplace.com/relationships/joy2meu/heart-break-of-romantic-relationship-facet-3/

My prior experiences with my inner child were mostly positive. I didn't encounter the concept of shame very much.

So how does a child relate to the concept of shame anyways....the child just experiences as made to feel that "she is bad'?

[JustKathy]

Talk about coincidence. I was just checking the news on CNN, and came across this clip:

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t3#/video/living/2012/04/13/natpkg-orig-ideas-brene-brown.cnn

[JustKathy]

So how does a child relate to the concept of shame anyways....the child just experiences as made to feel that "she is bad'?

From what the woman in the clip is saying, it makes the child feel worthless, like he/she doesn't belong, or isn't fit for this world. That's certainly the effect my N mother's actions had on me. It's taken years of therapy to shake those feelings, though some of it is still there. I think that once it enters your brain, it's there in some form for life. I don't think I'll ever feel 100% worthy. What you learn as a child is very hard to un-learn, unfortunately.

[sKePTiKal]

With frequent shaming, a child can feel that IF ONLY they were someone else - more perfect, more beautiful, more lovable, more ____________ - then Mama would love them, instead of essentially excluding the child from "the family" via that shaming. The child's "self-support-system" moves inward - excluding the rest of the world. Outwardly, they're usually excessively eager to please, to be helpful and useful... another strategy for gaining that love/recognition.

Sometimes. One example.

[Ales2]

There is also a distinction between healthy shame (i.e having a conscience) vs. toxic shame (making the child feel worthless for honest mistakes).  I have alot of shame for normal mistakes that I shouldn't even care about, trivial stuff. To this day, I have shame around getting my car repaired or god forbid I get a parking ticket, or as a kid, when I spilled something on my school uniform that would require extra care or cleaning. I was made to feel shame for missing school or not looking or feeling right.
Its one thing to hold a child accountable for when they lied, but still continue to love them and another to make someone feel unloved because they spilled their chef boyardee on a white blouse. Whats sad is that even as adults we have to reprogram ourselves after this nonsense.

[sKePTiKal]

It is sad - and it's not easy at all. It still sneaks up on me at the worst possible times, and I'm still not (always) quite able to recognize it for what it is before it starts to push me into the self-sabotage cycle. A person likes to think - I'm cured - it's gone!!!! and won't be an issue anymore. SIGH... nope, it's an ongoing thing, it's fluid and hides in a lot of dark, little cubby holes... and the pattern, after all, is built of neurotransmitters, connections, and bio-processes in our brains. Still able to be changed... but it takes a LOT of attention, presence in the moment, and awareness.

One o' these days... I'll cross the tipping point... and it'll seem like a thing of the past, instead of an on-going struggle.

[Meh]

So how does a child relate to the concept of shame anyways....the child just experiences as made to feel that "she is bad'?

From what the woman in the clip is saying, it makes the child feel worthless, like he/she doesn't belong, or isn't fit for this world. That's certainly the effect my N mother's actions had on me. It's taken years of therapy to shake those feelings, though some of it is still there. I think that once it enters your brain, it's there in some form for life. I don't think I'll ever feel 100% worthy. What you learn as a child is very hard to un-learn, unfortunately.

Um hum, especially if there is an emotional memory and belief about self AND also a habituated patterning in the brain at the same time.

I ask about how the child relates to shame because it hasn't really come up in my inner child work. It's sort of hard to pinpoint although I know it's there. I think maybe the inner child doesn't differentiate my adult self somewhat does --just having a feeling or experience vs. internalizing and maybe not even feeling it.

I think there are obvious shame points maybe. Possibly much of it is subconscious? Maybe even more subconscious than the most of the inner child stuff. Or maybe it's just a different age than what I normally connect with in the inner-child work.

[Meh]

There is also a distinction between healthy shame (i.e having a conscience) vs. toxic shame (making the child feel worthless for honest mistakes).  I have alot of shame for normal mistakes that I shouldn't even care about, trivial stuff. To this day, I have shame around getting my car repaired or god forbid I get a parking ticket, or as a kid, when I spilled something on my school uniform that would require extra care or cleaning. I was made to feel shame for missing school or not looking or feeling right.
Its one thing to hold a child accountable for when they lied, but still continue to love them and another to make someone feel unloved because they spilled their chef boyardee on a white blouse. Whats sad is that even as adults we have to reprogram ourselves after this nonsense.

Um, hum that sort of thing is sad, where the adult over reacts to little things like stains. If the "mental illness" at the same is preventing the parent from showing the child regular love I guess it is a bad combo. I've seen my brother do this with my nephews.  My brother will just harp on the kids about being grubby and dirty instead of just saying come on guys you need to go take a bath and brush your teeth right now. My brother will talk badly about his kids right in front of them to other people. One of them is totally addicted to video games. Instead of my brother making sure at the start that the kid knew he was only going to get a limited amount of time doing video games everyday--my brother allows him to do it because the kids aren't engaged in anything else. Then my brother complains about it and will tell the kid that he is lazy. My brother will basically blame his kids for his own lack of parenting skills/interest.

Gee, I wonder where he got that from.

[Meh]

Went for a walk today after I got off computer. Considered the shame thing. Not much came up for me though. Hard for me to put my finger on like there are not any specific incidents that stand out glaringly as the issue. Instead possibly it's more generalized. Like the difference between local/general anesthetic. Shame/disassociation/denial or whatever it all is sometimes is more of a whole cloud.

Yeah, thought I would come here read and write a little, consider SHAME and something would come up but no not really getting it.
Oh well.

[Meh]

Um, still not much arising around the Shame issue. I thought I would just state it and then maybe something would come out of it.

My innerchild has showed up out of the blue but it didn't really seem to be related to shame and I have a hard time understanding if it even relates to the innerchild.

[BonesMS]

I think my Inner Child is standing up and shouting:  "I will NOT be shamed into silence!  I am ANGRY about the abuse and I'm NOT taking it anymore!"

Bones

[Meh]

I think my Inner Child is standing up and shouting:  "I will NOT be shamed into silence!  I am ANGRY about the abuse and I'm NOT taking it anymore!"

Bones

That is cool.