Help? Advice?

[KayZee]

Hi all,

I'm so sorry. I've been on here so sporadically lately and when I am, I've often been too emotionally bombarded and mixed up to post anything.  Been feeling pretty antisocial and fearful of people in real life too, leading to many marital arguments (hubby has developed this whole gang of friends in the year since we've moved to our new town and I haven't really clicked with their wives or anyone else for that matter).  It feels a bit like everything's unraveling all at once.  The more I stay away from people, the harder it becomes to reach back out.

Anyway, I'm desperate for some advice.  I've been feeling lately like I just can't take it (NM's endless head games and covert attacks) anymore.  Spent the past month questioning whether I want to ask her for a temporary separation.  I decided--ultimately, like I always do--that I'll just suck it up and hold NM at an emotional distance, try to stake out my boundaries and meet in person with her and enabling co-N Father at a bare minimum, mostly on obligatory days like holidays.

So I invited NM and Co-N Father to my daughter's third birthday party on June 29.  Even though I don't want them there (NM acted like such a monster at her second B-day).  I guess you could say I caved to pressure and social norms.  I wanted to hide the depths of my family dysfunction from my in-laws who will also be at the party.  And I wanted to invite my dear aunt and uncle (NM is very jealous when I ask them to come visit and not her).  At any rate, I already felt like I was testing my limits by inviting NM to my daughter's party.

In response to the invitation, NM writes, "Are you celebrating your son's first birthday (it's on June 9), if so we'd like to participate."  So to be clear, she did not RSVP to the party I invited her to--in fact, she made no mention of it--and immediately launched in on what felt like an accusation.  How could I throw a party for my daughter and not my son?  How could I not invite her up twice in two weeks?

I wrote back and told NM, "No we're not having a party for our son this year.  Just this once, because he's so little, we'll probably roll him into our daughter's party." 

NM responds, "Well, just a heads up.  We're going to drive up on his birthday anyway."

Am I overreacting to be upset?  I DON'T WANT HER here on my son's birthday.  I DIDN'T INVITE HER.  I DON'T WANT TO SEE HER TWICE IN TWO WEEKS.  Hell, I barely want to see her the one time.  WHY can't she respond to a straightforward question with a straightforward answer?  WHY does she need to ENCROACH ALL THE TIME?  The honest truth is: I DON'T WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH HER AT ALL.  But I keep going through the motions, because I'm afraid of setting her off further.  And because I don't want to have to explain why I disowned my family to normal people.  I don't want to confuse my kids.  I don't want to embarrass my husband (who seems perpetually embarrassed of me anyway).

I'm so sorry, guys, for the rant.  I'm feeling so alone.  I don't know how to say No to NM.  (What is a good way to say "no" to her?  In a way that she will accept?)  I don't know how to feel better. 

I'd be so grateful for any advice or words of wisdom.  This is the worst I've felt in years:(

Kay x

[KayZee]

Also. . . I found out that after I didn't immediately respond to her invite-herself "we're coming up to see you" text, she went full triangulation and called other members of my family and told them I am "withholding her grandchildren from her."  That I "don't let her see them." etc.  I haven't even said no yet, and she's already hedging her bets, manipulating the situation and trying to make me look crazy/angry.  I can't take this.

K x

[Ales2]

Hi ((((((((((KayZee)))))))) - I hear you loud and clear. Rant away. Its Ok, thats why we are here.

Its very complicated between husband, two little ones, new move, friends (or lack thereof) and not wanting to disappoint in-laws etc. Its very frustrating. You sound like you are being straightforward and wish desperately the N could be too....I think one of the resentments of being a daughter of N has to be juggling all the non-sense and the triangulation and crazy making. 

A couple of suggestions:
Its a third bday party - can you put the kids in one room or at a table where they have activities (coloring or crafts, maybe a clown?) and maybe set a table (with namecards) for adults? Maybe you could put your family together - encouraging your Nm to sit with your AUnt/Uncle and put your inlaws at another table. It doesnt have to be obvious so that people feel excluded, just a little separate. Or maybe have each one of the family members to help out a little - someone to come early to set up, someone to stay late to clean up and have little duties at the party, one to put candles on the cake, another to take kids outside, whatever little "directing" you can do to distract.  My suggestion is to do a little diversion, but make people feel useful and included. 
As for the sons birthday, tell her you have been invited out, no mention of "who" and just go out with him. The zoo, chuck e. cheese, or maybe a picnic in the park. Tell her she can celebrate that at the other party.

I remember the times it hurt me to say NO because I knew I would miss out on other opportunities (in your case, your kids do), but every time I have tried again, I have mostly regretted it. I know there are some people who established boundaries and it did help and LC can be enough, but dont be upset with yourself if this is not the case for you. Its different for everybody and whatever is right for you is OK too. As for worrying about the outsiders, take heart, you sound like a very kind and caring person, stand up for yourself and continue to do so -people will see that there are people out there will see you are perfectly nice, wonderful stable person who come from dysfunctional families and have chosen a higher path, one of concern, caring and detachment from negativity. I think it more acceptable not to get along in a positive, constructive way than you might realize right now and so find ways to make detachment positive, be positive about it and no one will think otherwise.   

As for saying NO - I believe in/prefer to just be assertive, but if you are still fearful, maybe easing into it nicely would help, she'll eventually get the message. For example, say something like, Thanks for wanting to see (sons name) on his birhtday, but weve been invited out, so will see you on June 29th.  Be nice - say "thanks but No", or "I appreacite this, but No",  its a softer NO, but still a NO. Eventually, you wont have to add the frosting before saying No. 

Now about that hubby - maybe try a double date with one of his friends as a couple? Or maybe one of your kids friends has a mother you like? Is there anyone in that group, that seems assertive or has some qualities you might like to emulate? Maybe asking someone to coffee might be a good start. You might make a new friend  - you sound like you need someone there for you.  Whenever I make new friends, I am always thrilled with the prospect that I can put my past behind me and move forward for new experiences.

For some reason, your post really resonated with me - I usually sympathize with everyone here, but dont offer much advice... so just use whats helpful and discard what is not.  All the best to you KayZee and son, hubby and daughter.  Ales

[JustKathy]

Ugh! I can relate to this. My NM used to do this all the time. She would never set foot in any of my houses herself out of anger that I had "bigger, nicer" homes than she did, so instead would call and insist that we come over to visit on her orders, or call and tell me that she was sending my father over to drop off something that I didn't need (meaning, sending him to spy on us and report back if we had any new cars, upgrades to the house, etc). I finally started telling her that I had other plans and wouldn't be home. Unfortunately, though, it didn't work. She would reply with, "That's okay, I'll send your father over anyway, and he can leave (whatever item) at the door." I finally made the decision to go NC. It doesn't work for everyone, but it's worked for me, somewhat, anyway. There is still major stress that goes along with that as Ns will never go down without a fight, but it was the only thing I could do.

As for your in-laws, do you have a good enough relationship with them that you could just tell them the truth? I finally did that with my in-laws. I don't have any children, so there were never occasions where they would have met, but they did keep asking us if we could all get together. So, hard as it was, I finally told them that my mother has mental health issues, and they were very understanding.

[Ales2]

Ditto Justkathy!

[BonesMS]

I can relate to the situation of the N "inviting herself" whether it's convenient or not.     It's a HUGE PAIN IN THE ASS!!!! 

In my situation, I live in a condominium development where parking is restricted and visitors are required to park in the designated visitor area, which this N REFUSED to do because it was "too inconvenient".  When she showed up, after I had already told her NO, she got told that she was banned from the property and the next time she showed up, uninvited, the police and the tow truck would be called and she would be hauled outta there for trespassing and illegal parking! 

The suggestion I'm trying to make is that you could (a) not be home when she shows up or (b) do what I did and have her banned from the housing development if you can.  It doesn't matter how many times you say NO to an N, they simply REFUSE to hear you!  That's when drastic measures come in to play.

Bones

[JustKathy]

I agree with Bones. I would tell her that you have plans for that day, and follow through. Go somewhere, so when she arrives, no one is home.

[BonesMS]

I agree with Bones. I would tell her that you have plans for that day, and follow through. Go somewhere, so when she arrives, no one is home.

Thanks, JustKathy!  The N can't force herself on you if you're not there.  Just be sure that you don't tip your hand and tell her where you're going.  That way, she can't follow you.

Bones

[Meh]

Not being home would =a day without mother's presence

If it was my mother it would also = retaliation and bratt-ish-ness

Hum, but yeah I think Bones has come up with a good suggestion there it's evasive.

It sends the msg. "I can make plans without you", " I may not be waiting at home whenever you want me to be".
"We really want a day to ourselves"

I think as a family, you/husband and your children deserve to have some birthdays that are void of the emotional trauma. She is being a rude guest.


Good luck!

As an adult I have realized how my mother has lied to me and in very harmful selfish ways. I didn't comprehend it when I was a kid.
So sometimes as an adult if I'm feeling really desperate I allow myself the experience of lying to my mother.  

Also if you can afford it, go on a roadtrip some long weekend at some point, You sound overwhelmed--- just by yourself to a bed and breakfast and just chill out. Order pancakes and buy a bunch of flowers and go for a bike ride or something.

Lie, say that you have had the flu and won't be doing a cake and celebration. Say that somebody bruised their elbow and so everybody is keeping in low key due to bad spirits. Say that the dog had fleas and the house is being fumigated. Termites. Ants.
Wasps. Bats in the attic. Rats.

?I don't know. The reality of these family relationships is that they are hard to break. There is full contact or no contact or minimal contact. Then there is the question of the quality of the relationship when there is some contact. It's as if we all hope that we could have better relatives and better "quality of contact"   Coming up with new terms here.

[KayZee]

Ales: Thank you so much! 

I love the idea of splitting everyone up a little bit, seating wise, when my daughter's party comes.  My NM gets so territorial of me and aggressive whenever there's a crowd (and particularly when my in-laws are around).  She actually stares daggers at me when I talk to anyone else.  Or she'll get kind of physically intimidating, wedging herself between me and whoever I'm speaking to--forcing herself into my line of vision.  The more I can keep her away from me the better!

Thanks too for the advice about making friends.  I really haven't devoted too much time to getting out there (I need to).  I've just been feeling so socially awkward.  Like, honestly I feel kind of slow when I'm around new people, like I'm a few beats behind everyone.  It's like I get so panicked, I totally shut down and then I beat myself up about it.  Perhaps I've been a bit hard on myself though.  I do have a playdate scheduled with a new mommy friend who is very nice next Monday. 

Maybe too I'm feeling a little bit gun shy.  I fell in one of those platonic-love-at-first-sight instant friendships when I first moved up here (this should have been a warning sign that I was getting into one of those questionable l friendships that was sort of one-sided and a lot like the dysfunction I grew up with).  Long story short,  everything went sour.  Once this woman realized I was incapable of helping her in the way she wanted to be helped, she repeatedly stood me up and more or less dropped contact with me.  And ever since, I've been feeling a little bit doubtful and closed-off.  I supposed the hurt inner child in me wants to use it as an excuse: "See?  Why should I open up and trust anyone?  I did that and look how it turned out.  Everyone uses or abandons me like my parents did."  But the more rational side of me knows I should persevere.

Could all be an indication that I need to focus on more healing work before I try to go out and be a social butterfly.  Maybe it's okay to hold back and be on my own for a while.  Just need to quiet the inner critic (the NM who resides in my head) that says "nobody likes me" or "I will never fit in."  These are the thoughts that I battle when I'm feeling solitary.

[KayZee]

And an update about my son's B-day: Hubby and I talked it over, and we travel to NM's house on my son Peter's birthday. 

I texted NM to say, "Maybe we can travel to you instead?  We're hosting people here for most of May and June and it's getting to be a little much."  This is the truth. 

Another more, even more poignant truth: going to NM's house is the lesser evil.  At least there, she can't criticize me about my housekeeping, snoop through my stuff, act all disdainful and self-righteous about the food we eat ("the horror!  real butter!").  Also, whenever things get to hairy, we can make an excuse and leave.  When she's at my house, I feel like I can't kick her out no matter how much I ache to!

Anyway, NM texts back all sickeningly sweet: "You're welcome at my house anytime!"

And here's where, admittedly, I let my anger get the better of me.  Because I felt a little bit like she'd played dirty and won.  She invited herself; she rallied the troops against me (telling everyone she never gets to see her grandchildren); she made my son's birthday totally about HER instead of about my son, our family and our traditions.  And I sort of felt like she shouldn't be able to get away with it.  I at least wanted her to know that I KNOW how bulldozing and devious she was.  I guess I wanted to speak my truth...even just the tiniest bit.

So I texted back: "It's a deal then.  Also, please stop telling people that you never get to see your grandchildren, and that I withhold them from you.  Because that's not true."

What does she write back?  Again, sickeningly sweet, like butter wouldn't melt in her mouth: "I don't know why I would ever think that let alone say it!" 

Lying.  As always.  (My uncle had told me all the things she'd called him and said just an hour earlier, painting herself as such a victim.)  Everything she does is deniable.  I *hate* her.  And I will never escape her.  I feel like I've only given her more ammunition with which to make me look angry/crazy to the rest of my family.

[Ales2]

Hi KayZee - This sounds like a good solution, not perfect, and I can hear and understand your resentment turning the BDay into a trip to the NM Funhouse.  :0 But your points are excellent, no comments about your stuff and easy exits.  Thats probably workable.  If she gets unruly, cut the visit short. She'll eventually get the message that you wont tolerate her behavior.  I've found extricating myself from the situation leaves them wondering, which is better than asserting myself and explaining since they don't care/don't listen anyway. Complaining always makes us look like the bad guys, so dont complain or explain, its just time to go.

About the friend thing that didnt work out. Would changing your perspective help a little?  It sounds like you dodged a bullet by not getting involved, so instead of feeling doubtful, would it help to feel relief? Maybe some self praise for your growth in recognizing this persons red flag? As in, lucky me, I saw that coming, or glad I didn't get involved in that.  In my lifetool box that I got from therapy, one of them is that the inner child in me was lied to, so while my feelings are real to me (as they are with you) those feelings were started with a lie - and the lie is the Nism, so knowing that, I dont have to believe in limited ways about myself anymore. This is in my journal:

My EMOTIONAL ROADBLOCKS are LIES.
I am BEYOND this.

I use this frequently to counter the self doubt and other issues I feel. They hurt and they are real to me, but I dont have to believe them because of what I now know.

Anyway, sounds like you are doing good - and yes, very smart to tell her to stop turning others against you. My NM is trying that with me now too. She wont speak to anyone in the family (Aunts, Uncles, close friends, neighbors of family who helped with sick family members etc) so they all call me now and now THAT is pissing her off. Pisses me off too, since none of them ever bothered to be concerned with me at all. 

Have a wonderful weekend, you deserve it.
Ales

[KayZee]

(((Kathy))))

so instead would call and insist that we come over to visit on her orders, or call and tell me that she was sending my father over to drop off something that I didn't need (meaning, sending him to spy on us and report back if we had any new cars, upgrades to the house, etc). I finally started telling her that I had other plans and wouldn't be home. Unfortunately, though, it didn't work. She would reply with, "That's okay, I'll send your father over anyway, and he can leave (whatever item) at the door."

The above is such an infuriating violation of boundaries!!  I totally understand and feel for you, especially in your decision to go NC. 

My in-laws are pretty wonderful and compassionate.  And they definitely understand that my relationship with my family (NM in particular) is strained.  NM was so horrible to DH in the beginning, especially around the time of my wedding, that there was no hiding the dysfunction!  Still, I worry that they will think less of me if they knew just how awful everything is.  This is my own fear of course and my childhood defense mechanism, left over from the days of growing up in that house where I had to "smile, and pretend everything's peachy/normal."  In reality, my in-laws never ever been remotely judgmental of me.  And my mother-in-law has a relationship with her N-sister that's a lot like the one I have with my Mom (mother-in-law, herself, has had to go NC).  So, yes, all to say.  I should open up to them a little bit more while they're here.  They already know the worst of it anyway.

[KayZee]

Bones,

I'm floored by your NM's, well... stalking, really.  It's just stalking.  No other word for it.

I had already told her NO, she got told that she was banned from the property and the next time she showed up, uninvited, the police and the tow truck would be called and she would be hauled outta there for trespassing and illegal parking! 

I can't tell you how much I admire you for the above.  So strong and brave of you to stand up to her!

I'm so sorry you went through all of that (stressful, infuriating, disruptive stuff), but it gives me great relief to know I'm not the only one who's NM constantly invites herself over.

Last time that my NM invited herself it went down like this.... With less than one day's notice, NM called to say she was thinking about driving up from my sister's house to see us.  I said, sorry, but we have friends visiting for the weekend (we did).  The next time we saw NM, she told my DH, "Next time that I want to see you and you have company for the weekend, I'm just going to play the 'grandmother card' and come anyway."  WTF?  Come and CRASH our weekend with our friends?

NM seems to think that being a grandmother gives her license to do whatever she wants, whenever she wants.  I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, given that's the kind of mother she was too.  A total dictator who thought she could do whatever she wanted, say whatever she wanted, abuse people however she wanted, be as controlling as she wanted all because and I quote: "You are the children and I am the MOTHER."

[KayZee]

Thank you, Starlight!  For the amazing words of wisdom.

As an adult I have realized how my mother has lied to me and in very harmful selfish ways. I didn't comprehend it when I was a kid.
So sometimes as an adult if I'm feeling really desperate I allow myself the experience of lying to my mother.  Very Happy

I love the above!  And it's made me realize that I never lie to my mother (and question why not)?  Especially when I know that half the information I give her (successes, failures and emotions especially) will be used against me!  It's like I willingly give her a guided tour, complete with map of all the ways she can hurt and manipulate me.

I wish to death that I could have better "quality of contact" with my family.  I'm at an impassable crossroad at the moment where I want low-contact (just a few holidays a year) with NM and want to keep an emotional distance from her as well, and she's going around telling everyone in my family that she's so desperate to improve our relationship and be closer.  And well, call me cynical.  But this just seems like more lying, triangulating and manipulation.  Because when we're alone together, she doesn't in any way "try to be close."  She won't hug me when I see her.  She makes every effort to undercut me and criticize me when we're alone together.  She doesn't call me up either (unless she has a scheme/agenda).  She doesn't ask me about herself (never has of course) and makes no effort to know me.  This sounds dramatic, but I feel like she wants to destroy me and she wants me out of the family (she's turned almost everyone there against me).  So I don't really see how she wants to be closer or mend anything.  It's just another cover.  Lots of talk so no one will examine her actions.

I am ranting again.  But this is similar to what she did with me and my sister.  She totally destroyed our relationship (or aided and abetted it's destruction) and drove a wedge between us.  And then, she goes around telling everyone that she's so heartbroken that sis and I don't have a relationship.  And that SHE (NM!) wants to be the one who brings my sister and I back together!  This is more lies. This is laughable.  But there is no way to make my truth known to anyone.  Because NM is always there, controlling the information and telling them something different.  Agggh.